From: krnet-request@mylist.net Sent: Friday, September 19, 2003 12:00 PM To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 163, Issue 1 Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Deceptive Trade (Bob Sauer) 2. Re: Hinges (larry flesner) 3. Re: Hinges (Mark Langford) 4. Re: Hinges (Mark Langford) 5. Hinges 6. Re: Hinges (Ron Eason) 7. Destruction has begun (Dan Heath) 8. KR work (Jack Cooper) 9. Re: Hinges (Mark Jones) 10. Does anyone know how to reach "Video Bob"? (Bernard McLean) 11. Re: Does anyone know how to reach "Video Bob"? (larry severson) 12. Re: Does anyone know how to reach "Video Bob"? (Jack Cooper) 13. Hinges, pushtubes and things. (Dana Overall) 14. Avibank Info (Scott Cable) 15. Dihedral Question (Scott Cable) 16. Re: Dihedral Question (Justin) 17. RE: Deceptive Trade (Ron Freiberger) 18. Re: Dihedral Question (Mark Langford) 19. Re: Does anyone know how to reach "Video Bob"? (larry severson) 20. Re: Hinges, pushtubes and things. 21. Re: Dihedral Question (Scott Cable) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 13:29:28 -0700 From: "Bob Sauer" To: "kr" Subject: KR>Deceptive Trade Message-ID: <006a01c37e23$8f091c80$fe393818@ph.cox.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 1 I just received my lastest order of resin/hardener from Aircraft Spruce. = I had ordered one (1) pint of hardender and one (1) quart of resin. I = received 10 oz. of hardener and 30 ounces of resin. I believe this to = be deceptive and when calling and talking to customer service, the lady = put the blame on the manufacturer and said it was "fine if I thought it = was deceptive trade practices" . This is the same amount as if one = ordered the one quart kit at the 3-1 ratio. I paid more but got the = lesser amount. This is not my first problem with AS. Watch your orders if you deal with AS. From: resauer@cox.net Sun City WestFrom WA7YXF@aol.com Thu Sep 18 14:05:11 2003 Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.98]) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1A05xf-0005w6-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 14:05:11 -0700 Received: from WA7YXF@aol.com by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id g.115.28d4a6ce (3988) for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 17:07:36 -0400 (EDT) From: WA7YXF@aol.com Message-ID: <115.28d4a6ce.2c9b7897@aol.com> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 17:07:35 EDT Subject: KR>Deceptive Trade To: krnet@mylist.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10708 X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KR builders and pilots List-Id: KR builders and pilots List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: Watch your orders if you deal with AS. From: resauer@cox.net Sun City West 20 Years - 4 Airplanes. I have always been very happy with Aircraft Spruce & Specialty. Lynn N37LH ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 16:39:48 -0500 From: larry flesner To: KR builders and pilots Subject: Re: KR>Hinges Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20030918163948.00842bb0@pop.midwest.net> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 2 >I am going to use the new airfoil elevator and rudder. > Question is what size of chanel aluminum to use for the >hinges? >Steve Phillabaum ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++= Steve, Use the rod end bearings that netters refer to as the "Dr. Dean" hinge. A much better solution to the problem and they should be good for the life of the aircraft. Info can be found on Mark Langford's site or several other places on the KRnet. Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 17:28:35 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>Hinges Message-ID: <00c201c37e34$33bb2dd0$5e0ca58c@tbe.com> References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 3 Steve Phillabaum wrote: > I am going to use the new airfoil elevator and rudder. > Question is what size of chanel aluminum to use for the > hinges? I don't want to get my hinges in a bind. I don't > want to use pushrod ends either. (plans built, cost, > weight, you know the stuff.) Mark I couldn't get on to > your site to look at what you did. I would definitely do it the "Dr. Dean way", which is to use rod end bearings. They are bomb proof and will last forever. Sure, they cost a few bucks more, and may weigh 2 or 3 more ounces, but I'd take that trade any day over having to rip the stuff off later and cut into them to replace aluminum hinges. Everybody that's done it so far loves it. The poop on rod end bearing hinges is at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/dean_hinge/ . I did my hinges almost by the plans (because I couldn't figure out a good way to use rod end bearings) and used oil impregnated bronze bushings. Details on that are in an old KROnline newsletter at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/kro12_96.html , about 2/3 of the way down. Wicks sells the exact bushings you'd need for this job. I would really do it with rod end bearings though, trust me on this. You newbies might want to check out all the other good stuff at http://www.krnet.org/kronline/ ... Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL N56ML at hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 18:34:33 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>Hinges Message-ID: <1d0b01c37e3d$6a760490$1202a8c0@basement> References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 4 I don't guess any of us actually answered your question though. The aluminum hinge material called out in the plans is 1 x 1 x .125 channel and 1.25 x 1.25 x .125 channel. I should also point out that the new airfoils designed by UIUC were for the wings. The airfoils shown in the drawings are some that I cooked up on my own. They are, however, real airfoils, as opposed to what's shown in the plans. Ron Willett told me at the Gathering that he had his full set plotted out at the local Kinkos for $9. Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL N56ML "at" hiwaay.net see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 20:29:44 -0400 From: To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR>Hinges Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: list Message: 5 Thanks for the input. Looks like I'll study on "Dr. Deans Way" Actually looks easier then cutting angle. Steve Phillabaum Auburn, Alabama ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 20:01:01 -0500 From: "Ron Eason" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>Hinges Message-ID: <003101c37e49$7e769980$6401a8c0@Administration> References: <24.45d63ae8.2c9b2a89@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 6 I've used aluminum channel with pressed in ball bearings , 3/16" I.D. [ to match bolts] backing them up with blocking washers aluminum tube inserts. Should last forever. Bronze oilight flange bushings pressed in place would be the same. KRRon ---- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2003 10:34 AM Subject: KR>Hinges > I used the aluminum channel on mine. Guys who have been flying with them > tell me they wear badly and soon. Especially the rudder. Many drill them out and > put in bushings. If I were to do it over, I would use steel channel. Steel > would weigh more but, not as much as the pushrod ends. Lynn N37LH > > I am going to use the new airfoil elevator and rudder. > Question is what size of chanel aluminum to use for the > hinges? I don't want to get my hinges in a bind. I don't > want to use pushrod ends either. (plans built, cost, > weight, you know the stuff.) Mark I couldn't get on to > your site to look at what you did. > > Steve Phillabaum > skphil@charter.net > Auburn, Alabama > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 21:36:23 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" To: "krnet@mylist.net" Subject: KR>Destruction has begun Message-ID: <3F6A5D97.000007.03252@Computer> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 7 Yesterday, Jerry and I decided to go for the John Shafer canopy hinge. I gotta stop going to gatherings. There are always too many good ideas no matter how few planes come in. =0D =0D So tonight I started the destruction of our current hinge design. With every cut, I saw hours of work flash before my eyes. Pictures to come wh= en I get something started on the new implementation. =0D =0D =0D N64KR=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering=0D =0D See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic=0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =20From matheson@dodo.com.au Thu Sep 18 19:00:45 2003 Received: from 149.32.220.203.comindico.com.au ([203.220.32.149] helo=relay01.kbs.net.au) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1)id 1A0AZg-0007l9-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 19:00:44 -0700 Received: from dialup-148.150.220.203.acc01-rail-gri.comindico.com.au ([203.220.150.148] helo=StationW2k04) by relay01.kbs.net.au with smtp (Exim 3.36 #1)id 1A0AcC-0005iE-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 12:03:20 +1000 Message-ID: <006001c37e52$5d217e40$b52cfea9@StationW2k04> From: "Phillip Matheson" To: "KR builders and pilots" Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 12:04:29 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1b3 Subject: KR>Ground / Earth Wiring/ Stall Warning X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KR builders and pilots List-Id: KR builders and pilots List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: Would someone help me out with ground / earthing wiring for my KR2. I have read different books and get different ideas. What wire type have you used? Do all metal parts need to be earthed, i.e. all hinges etc.? What type of stall warning would consider? Phillip Matheson matheson@dodo.com.ao Australia VH PKR See our engines and kits at. http://www.vw-engines.com/ http://www.homebuilt-aviation.com/ From matheson@dodo.com.au Thu Sep 18 19:09:07 2003 Received: from 149.32.220.203.comindico.com.au ([203.220.32.149] helo=relay01.kbs.net.au) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1)id 1A0Ahn-0007p0-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 19:09:07 -0700 Received: from dialup-148.150.220.203.acc01-rail-gri.comindico.com.au ([203.220.150.148] helo=StationW2k04) by relay01.kbs.net.au with smtp (Exim 3.36 #1)id 1A0AkJ-00068x-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 12:11:43 +1000 Message-ID: <002101c37e53$8901fca0$b52cfea9@StationW2k04> From: "Phillip Matheson" To: "KR builders and pilots" References: Subject: Re: KR>Pushtubes/ 4130 Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 12:12:51 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KR builders and pilots List-Id: KR builders and pilots List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: My plan mods call for 1/2" 4130 aileron pushrods , welded or riveted rod end bearings and 1 1/8" 4130 push rod to the elevator Phillip Matheson matheson@dodo.com.ao Australia VH PKR See our engines and kits at. http://www.vw-engines.com/ http://www.homebuilt-aviation.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dana Overall" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2003 3:54 AM Subject: RE: KR>Pushtubes > Gang, along the lines of what Jack just posted I provided Colin with a > materinal list for an elevator pushtube offline. If anyone is interested, I > told Colin it would be OK to forward it to the KRNet. I gave him part > numbers and prices. > > Here is a pic of the end of one pushtube. The insert is threaded to accept > a male rod end bearing and locking nut. Again, if anyone is interested I > can take a couple pics of the bellcrank showing a very neat install of a > bearing in the middle that allows you to use an AN4 bolt and sandwich these > male rod end bearings using AN3 bolts. Very, very light and very easy to > make. I would have liked to have used both on my KR. > > http://rvflying.tripod.com/pushtube.jpg > > I'm not saying this is the perfect way to do it, just another easy way to do > it. > > Sorry for the poor quality, the camera "decided" to focus somewhere else. > > Dana Overall > 1999 & 2000 National KR Gathering host > Richmond, KY > RV-7 slider/fuselage, Imron black, "Black Magic" > Finish kit ordered!! Buying Instruments. Hangar flying my Dynon. > http://rvflying.tripod.com > do not archive > > _________________________________________________________________ > Use custom emotions -- try MSN Messenger 6.0! > http://www.msnmessenger-download.com/tracking/reach_emoticon > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 22:32:22 -0400 From: "Jack Cooper" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: KR>KR work Message-ID: <410-2200395192322290@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 8 What a great day. With Isabel outside the garage was cool and dry so I spent 8 hours working on the KR. Robert J. (Jack) Cooper kr2cooper@earthlink.net http://www.jackandsandycooper.com/kr2 Why Wait? Move to EarthLink.From JSMONDAY@aol.com Thu Sep 18 19:57:03 2003 Received: from imo-m04.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.7]) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1A0BSB-0008IL-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 19:57:03 -0700 Received: from JSMONDAY@aol.com by imo-m04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id g.1df.10295811 (1320) for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 22:59:33 -0400 (EDT) From: JSMONDAY@aol.com Message-ID: <1df.10295811.2c9bcb14@aol.com> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 22:59:32 EDT Subject: Re: KR>Hinges To: krnet@mylist.net MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 920 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1b3 X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KR builders and pilots List-Id: KR builders and pilots List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: How many rod end bearing joints should I use for my rudder??? Thanks, John Monday KR2S Laguna Beach, CA ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 22:03:04 -0500 From: "Mark Jones" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>Hinges Message-ID: <007901c37e5a$8bb29980$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> References: <1df.10295811.2c9bcb14@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 9 Three Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2003 9:59 PM Subject: Re: KR>Hinges > How many rod end bearing joints should I use for my rudder??? > > Thanks, > John Monday > KR2S > Laguna Beach, CA > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 22:25:02 -0500 From: Bernard McLean To: KR builders and pilots Subject: KR>Does anyone know how to reach "Video Bob"? Message-ID: <3F6A770E.5090706@verizon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 10 I bought a DVD from him last Saturday at the Gathering and am having trouble viewing it. It won't work on either on my DVD player or my computer. Thanks for the help. Bernie McLean Poplar Grove IL 815-547-4224 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 20:44:26 -0700 From: larry severson To: KR builders and pilots Subject: Re: KR>Does anyone know how to reach "Video Bob"? Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030918203531.01243520@pop-server.socal.rr.com> In-Reply-To: <3F6A770E.5090706@verizon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 11 The 2002 gathering will fail after 17+ minutes (running vts_01_1.vob). However, you can go into the disk on your computer and play files vts_01_2.vob and vts_01_3.vob. This will give you all of the gathering 2002. If you got the Builder Forums, it selecting the "fiberglass Layups" creates a crash. However, it is on the dish in the highest numbered vob file. A real pain, but it is retrievable. I got VB to respond once, but when I told him of my problems using the disk menus, he did not answer anymore. At 10:25 PM 9/18/2003 -0500, you wrote: >I bought a DVD from him last Saturday at the Gathering and am having >trouble viewing it. It won't work on either on my DVD player or my computer. >Thanks for the help. > >Bernie McLean >Poplar Grove IL >815-547-4224 > > > >_______________________________________________ >see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html Larry Severson Fountain Valley, CA 92708 (714) 968-9852 larry2@socal.rr.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 00:02:20 -0400 From: "Jack Cooper" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>Does anyone know how to reach "Video Bob"? Message-ID: <410-2200395194220660@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 12 I also bought the DVD from Bob on Saturday. Mine plays all the way through-no problem. Robert J. (Jack) Cooper kr2cooper@earthlink.net http://www.jackandsandycoooper.com/kr2 Why Wait? Move to EarthLink. > [Original Message] > From: larry severson > To: KR builders and pilots > Date: 9/18/03 11:44:39 PM > Subject: Re: KR>Does anyone know how to reach "Video Bob"? > > The 2002 gathering will fail after 17+ minutes (running vts_01_1.vob). > However, you can go into the disk on your computer and play files > vts_01_2.vob and vts_01_3.vob. This will give you all of the gathering > 2002. If you got the Builder Forums, it selecting the "fiberglass Layups" > creates a crash. However, it is on the dish in the highest numbered vob file. > > A real pain, but it is retrievable. I got VB to respond once, but when I > told him of my problems using the disk menus, he did not answer anymore. > > > At 10:25 PM 9/18/2003 -0500, you wrote: > >I bought a DVD from him last Saturday at the Gathering and am having > >trouble viewing it. It won't work on either on my DVD player or my computer. > >Thanks for the help. > > > >Bernie McLean > >Poplar Grove IL > >815-547-4224 > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > Larry Severson > Fountain Valley, CA 92708 > (714) 968-9852 > larry2@socal.rr.com > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 07:50:17 -0400 From: "Dana Overall" To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR>Hinges, pushtubes and things. Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 13 Steve one point that has not been brought up in the hinge thread is the positioning of the actual pivot point. Dean CAD designed the Dr. Dean elevator hinge using the existing spar height to achieve a pivot point that would be centered as the elevator pivoted. This enables you a achieve a much better gap seal. Trust me, I built the alum hinges and then the Dr. Dean hinges. There is no comparison. If you want to save money, I would encourage you to look elsewhere in the airplane. When the KR plans came out, I doubt there were many affordable bearings you could find to install. That is not the case now. It just so happens I worked on the bellcrank and elevator pushtube this week. Once again, this is just for illustration and is not posted as the perfect way to do it, just something to consider. These are my bellcrank parts. They are nothing more than .062 with bends at the top and bottom to accomodate rod end bearings. The bearing flange is also .062 so a spacer is inserted on the larger arm of the bellcrank. http://rvflying.tripod.com/fd1.jpg Clecoed together http://rvflying.tripod.com/fd2.jpg Riveted together with AN4 rivets. Rivets can be set using a backing plate, to accomodate the factory head, and a hammer. You don't need a squeezer or C-frame. http://rvflying.tripod.com/fd3.jpg This shows the rod end bearing and the pushtube end stuck together. All you do is insert the pushtube end in the pushtube, drill it and pop rivet it together. Instant pushtube. Now when you compare this to the existing KR elevator cable system, this arrangement may be appropriate for your install. By the time you buy shackles, cable loop inserts, bolts, nuts, swedges, swedging tool, AN turnbuckles to take out the stretch of cables and the cable itself, it gets into your wallet. The pushtube material list I sent to Colin was something like $69.00. If you have the material on hand, you could build the pushtube in less than an hour. http://rvflying.tripod.com/fd4.jpg OK, here's my question for the list. Look at this picture http://rvflying.tripod.com/fd6.jpg The bottom of the firewall to longeron points are much stronger than the top attachment points. The top gussets are rivet on, the bottom powder coated bracket is bolted on. A vertical gusset behind the rudder pedals there attaches the same bracket to the vertical firewall angle. Now, look at the plate between there at the back of the center longeron and bottom longeron (which is huge). This plate ties the center and bottom longerons together and then to the center spar section. In additions there is a gusset that once again is bolted through the lower longeron and then is bolted to the center section using the actual wing attach bolts. When I built my KR, a reinforcement angle was added to the top portion on shelf. I think I know why, but I posted this to maybe arouse some KR discussion whether this would be something appropriate for KRs. What are the structural properties of all this bottom reinforcement and would it be something to incorporate into a KR? Or, is there even a reason to consider this in a KR. There's the question:-) BTW, Scott Cable..................I'll take you up on that beer thing:-) Dana Overall 1999 & 2000 National KR Gathering host Richmond, KY RV-7 slider/fuselage, Imron black, "Black Magic" Finish kit ordered!! Buying Instruments. Hangar flying my Dynon. http://rvflying.tripod.com do not archive _________________________________________________________________ Get a FREE computer virus scan online from McAfee. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 06:33:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Scott Cable To: KR builders and pilots Subject: KR>Avibank Info Message-ID: <20030919133304.34902.qmail@web40806.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <3F6A5D97.000007.03252@Computer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 14 Dan & Jerry, Check out: http://www.avibank.com Man if you want to get your creative juices flowing... Avibank manufactures quick release pins, adjustable diameter fasteners, struts/hold-open rods, latches and keepers, panel fasteners and more. I plan on using the Avibank AVL337 pin latch to secure my cowling for instance and I also plan on using one of their light weight latches for my canopy, and a really cool canopy hold open strut made by them also. My contact person is Skip Thorp and is a great guy: (636) 527-7608 main office number is (818) 392-2100 --- Dan Heath wrote: > Yesterday, Jerry and I decided to go for the John > Shafer canopy hinge. > I get something started on the new implementation. ===== Scott Cable KR-2S # 735 Linden, MI s2cable1@yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 07:04:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Scott Cable To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR>Dihedral Question Message-ID: <20030919140452.74342.qmail@web40809.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 15 Gavin & Colin, Colin is correct about starting the Dihedral at BL0.0 as opposed to starting the dihedral somewhere outboard. I'm not a loads engineer, but I did a "sanity " check with one here at work. Here are some issues that you may encounter by starting the dihedral at BL0.0: 1.)Kick Loads. How do you handle the additional kick loads? obviously you must make the spar larger in both height and width. 2.)Landing gear attachment. If you are or plan to use the Diehl gear, you are faced with 2 choices: a.) use a smaller prop b.) Make the spar taller 3.) Wing Fillets. Wing fillets are always larger and more complex for a BL0.0 dihedral as opposed to a straight spar/wing 4.)Spar / Wing to fuselage attachment complexity. The dihedral really complicates this attachment scenario. 5.) Occupant packaging. KR pilots and passengers are seated between the spars, with the occupant knees directly over the front spar. Having the wing dihedral start at BL0.0, causes occupant packaging issues. Do you think you will be comfortable as a pilot with the outbd knee higher than the inbd knee? So to answer Gavin's question, yes, there are plenty of low wing aircraft with the dihedral starting at the center. There are far and above many more examples of low wing aircraft where the dihedral starts outbd of the center, reasons for which are stated above. Good luck and happy building! ===== Scott Cable KR-2S # 735 Linden, MI s2cable1@yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 09:14:27 -0500 From: "Justin" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>Dihedral Question Message-ID: <000701c37eb8$563d0e30$d1d91818@computer> References: <20030919140452.74342.qmail@web40809.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 16 2.)Landing gear attachment. If you are or plan to use > the Diehl gear, you are faced with 2 choices: > a.) use a smaller prop > b.) Make the spar taller Thats not true. The orginal retracts had the least amount of ground clearance and the Diehl gear gave you more clearance. Justin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Cable" To: Sent: Friday, September 19, 2003 9:04 AM Subject: KR>Dihedral Question > Gavin & Colin, > Colin is correct about starting the Dihedral at BL0.0 > as opposed to starting the dihedral somewhere > outboard. > I'm not a loads engineer, but I did a "sanity " check > with one here at work. > Here are some issues that you may encounter by > starting the dihedral at BL0.0: > 1.)Kick Loads. How do you handle the additional kick > loads? obviously you must make the spar larger in both > height and width. > > 2.)Landing gear attachment. If you are or plan to use > the Diehl gear, you are faced with 2 choices: > a.) use a smaller prop > b.) Make the spar taller > > 3.) Wing Fillets. Wing fillets are always larger and > more complex for a BL0.0 dihedral as opposed to a > straight spar/wing > > 4.)Spar / Wing to fuselage attachment complexity. The > dihedral really complicates this attachment scenario. > > 5.) Occupant packaging. KR pilots and passengers are > seated between the spars, with the occupant knees > directly over the front spar. Having the wing > dihedral start at BL0.0, causes occupant packaging > issues. Do you think you will be comfortable as a > pilot with the outbd knee higher than the inbd knee? > > So to answer Gavin's question, yes, there are plenty > of low wing aircraft with the dihedral starting at the > center. There are far and above many more examples of > low wing aircraft where the dihedral starts outbd of > the center, reasons for which are stated above. > > Good luck and happy building! > > > ===== > Scott Cable > KR-2S # 735 > Linden, MI > s2cable1@yahoo.com > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 10:49:16 -0500 From: "Ron Freiberger" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: RE: KR>Deceptive Trade Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <006a01c37e23$8f091c80$fe393818@ph.cox.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 17 Starting back in the early seventies, I have had super service from AS&S. Flo Irwin, now deceased, spent a lot of time searching for the very long bolts to attach the Cassutt wing. There have been problems with orders, and always addressed very professionally by AS&S. My guesses are that you should write you complaint to Jim Irwin, and the second guess is that there were some sharp words spoken, and the lady wasn't willing to hear them all. Ron Freiberger mailto: rfreiberger@swfla.rr.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net] On Behalf Of Bob Sauer Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2003 3:29 PM To: kr Subject: KR>Deceptive Trade I just received my lastest order of resin/hardener from Aircraft Spruce. I had ordered one (1) pint of hardender and one (1) quart of resin. I received 10 oz. of hardener and 30 ounces of resin. I believe this to be deceptive and when calling and talking to customer service, the lady put the blame on the manufacturer and said it was "fine if I thought it was deceptive trade practices" . This is the same amount as if one ordered the one quart kit at the 3-1 ratio. I paid more but got the lesser amount. This is not my first problem with AS. Watch your orders if you deal with AS. From: resauer@cox.net Sun City West_______________________________________________ see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 10:44:50 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>Dihedral Question Message-ID: <001b01c37ec4$f6b458d0$5e0ca58c@tbe.com> References: <20030919140452.74342.qmail@web40809.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 18 Scott Cable wrote: > So to answer Gavin's question, yes, there are plenty > of low wing aircraft with the dihedral starting at the > center. There are far and above many more examples of > low wing aircraft where the dihedral starts outbd of > the center, reasons for which are stated above. I don't have time to find the original question (this message is not a RE), but a lot of people might think that you're saying not to bend the spars at all, when I believe what you are saying is not to bend them from the centerline of the aircraft going outwards, but instead start bending them right after they exit the fuselage, which is the way I've advocated doing it. If you do it "my" way, all of these concerns are mininized into insignificance. And where I've recommended doing this, we'd be using the AS5048 at the root, which is something like 20% stronger than stock spar if the same spar cap dimensions are used... Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL N56ML at hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 10:16:12 -0700 From: larry severson To: kr2cooper@earthlink.net, KR builders and pilots Subject: Re: KR>Does anyone know how to reach "Video Bob"? Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030919101326.012242a8@pop-server.socal.rr.com> In-Reply-To: <410-2200395194220660@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 19 I wish either of the DVDs that I bought worked flawlessly, but at least, thankfully, I was able to extract the data. The fact that I have a MS in Computer Science didn't hurt. At 12:02 AM 9/19/2003 -0400, you wrote: >I also bought the DVD from Bob on Saturday. Mine plays all the way >through-no problem. > >Robert J. (Jack) Cooper >kr2cooper@earthlink.net >http://www.jackandsandycoooper.com/kr2 >Why Wait? Move to EarthLink. Larry Severson Fountain Valley, CA 92708 (714) 968-9852 larry2@socal.rr.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 13:30:53 -0400 From: To: KR builders and pilots Subject: Re: KR>Hinges, pushtubes and things. Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: list Message: 20 "Dana Overall" wrote: > Rivets can be set >using a backing plate, to accomodate the factory head, >and a hammer. You don't need a squeezer or C-frame. > Dana Thanks for the pics. I belive you have helped me make up the decision. To go with Rod ends for hinges and a push rod in lue of cables. As far as a hammer and backing plate. I will borrow my dads tools. He is moving his plane to the hanger to paint. Mustang II. Slow bilt kit. Enjoyed helping. Steven Phillabaum Auburn, Alabama ---KAUO-- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 11:45:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Scott Cable To: KR builders and pilots Subject: Re: KR>Dihedral Question Message-ID: <20030919184502.21692.qmail@web40802.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <001b01c37ec4$f6b458d0$5e0ca58c@tbe.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 21 The original message was subject line: Spar and glue. and was the response from Colin Rainey dated 14 Sep 2003. The intent of my message was advocating the dihedral outboard of the fuselage. --- Mark Langford wrote: > Scott Cable wrote: > > > So to answer Gavin's question, yes, there are > plenty > > of low wing aircraft with the dihedral starting at > the > > center. There are far and above many more > examples of > > low wing aircraft where the dihedral starts outbd > of > > the center, reasons for which are stated above. > > I don't have time to find the original question > (this message is not a RE), > but a lot of people might think that you're saying > not to bend the spars at > all, when I believe what you are saying is not to > bend them from the > centerline of the aircraft going outwards, but > instead start bending them > right after they exit the fuselage, which is the way > I've advocated doing > it. If you do it "my" way, all of these concerns > are mininized into > insignificance. And where I've recommended doing > this, we'd be using the > AS5048 at the root, which is something like 20% > stronger than stock spar if > the same spar cap dimensions are used... > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL > N56ML at hiwaay.net > see KR2S project N56ML at > http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ===== Scott Cable KR-2S # 735 Linden, MI s2cable1@yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 163, Issue 1 *************************************