From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net on behalf of krnet-request@mylist.net Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 12:00 PM To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 188, Issue 1 Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Spar dimensions, help needed 2. Re: P-factor (Wayne Israelsen) 3. Re: Spar dimensions, help needed (Mark Langford) 4. RE: Spar dimensions, help needed (Ron Freiberger) 5. Re: Spar dimensions, help needed (Wayne Israelsen) 6. Re: wheel pants and CG (Ed Janssen) 7. Re: Spar dimensions, help needed 8. Re: Spar dimensions, help needed (Wayne Israelsen) 9. Re: Spar dimensions, help needed (Mark Langford) 10. Re: Spar dimensions, help needed (Wayne Israelsen) 11. WARNING RE LANGFORD POST (Tim Brown) 12. Re: Spar dimensions, help needed (David Mikesell) 13. Re: Spar dimensions, help needed 14. Re: Re: P-factor 15. Re: Jabiru Engines (Mac McConnell-Wood) 16. Re: nose Gear (Jim Sellars) 17. KR for sale (Don Woodyatt) 18. Re: Re: P-factor (not KR related) (Wayne Israelsen) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:48:48 EDT From: Veeduber@aol.com To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR>Spar dimensions, help needed Message-ID: <184.21a3d205.2cbc69b0@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 1 To All, I've been asked to assist in the repair of what appears to be a KR derivitive. The center section of the box-type front spar is fabricated in the typical KR method of upper & lower booms faced with ply shear webs. Wing is fiberglas over foam. The plane is not new and has accumulated quite a few hours. The booms appear to be vertical grain DF, probably the Mountain variety, very nice stuff (about 20 annular rings to the inch). Their dimensions appears to be 1-1/2" thick by a tad over 2" wide. Question: Is 1-1/2" the normal thickness for these booms? This airframe appears to be a stretched KR-1 fuselage with a KR-2 wing (307" total span). I do not hold a set of KR-2 plans, have no idea as to the original spar dimensions. -R.S.Hoover ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 14:23:19 -0700 From: "Wayne Israelsen" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: KR>Re: P-factor Message-ID: <003901c391d0$39272e40$6701a8c0@HISPEEDWIRELESS.COM> References: <3.0.6.32.20031011075753.008aade0@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 2 Does any one know what % of total thrust the Pfactor should be? I know know but approximately :-) Thanks Wayne ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:29:55 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>Spar dimensions, help needed Message-ID: <004101c391d1$25b09df0$1202a8c0@basement> References: <184.21a3d205.2cbc69b0@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 3 Bob Hoover wrote: > Question: Is 1-1/2" the normal thickness for these booms? The KR main spar caps for the center section are usually 2" thick (top to bottom) and 2-5/32" wide with vertical spacer blocks every 7-9", faced with 3/32" plywood. The whole thing is about 7.2" tall. The outboard wings are a quarter inch thinner at the root (so the wing attach fittings can nest), and tapered towards the tip (down to about 1" wide front to back, about 5/8" thick), and are faced by 3/32" thick plywood, along with spacer blocks every 5". 307" is about 25.5 feet, so I sure hope he's done his homework on this... Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL N56ML "at" hiwaay.net see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 17:35:55 -0400 From: "Ron Freiberger" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: RE: KR>Spar dimensions, help needed Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <184.21a3d205.2cbc69b0@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 4 307 span sounds like the famous motor glider.... Don't pull hard going fast.... Ron Freiberger mailto: rfreiberger@swfla.rr.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces+rfreiberger=swfla.rr.com@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces+rfreiberger=swfla.rr.com@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Veeduber@aol.com Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 4:49 PM To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR>Spar dimensions, help needed To All, I've been asked to assist in the repair of what appears to be a KR derivitive. The center section of the box-type front spar is fabricated in the typical KR method of upper & lower booms faced with ply shear webs. Wing is fiberglas over foam. The plane is not new and has accumulated quite a few hours. The booms appear to be vertical grain DF, probably the Mountain variety, very nice stuff (about 20 annular rings to the inch). Their dimensions appears to be 1-1/2" thick by a tad over 2" wide. Question: Is 1-1/2" the normal thickness for these booms? This airframe appears to be a stretched KR-1 fuselage with a KR-2 wing (307" total span). I do not hold a set of KR-2 plans, have no idea as to the original spar dimensions. -R.S.Hoover _______________________________________________ see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:18:14 -0700 From: "Wayne Israelsen" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>Spar dimensions, help needed Message-ID: <00d401c391d7$e58990e0$6701a8c0@HISPEEDWIRELESS.COM> References: <184.21a3d205.2cbc69b0@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 5 Does anyone realise that bob hoover is on the krnet? I'll look on my plans as soon as I can get to the hangar, but you will probably get help from Mark or others befor I can get back to the office tomorrow. P.S. I have most of your VW sermons on the wall of my garage. Thanks Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 1:48 PM Subject: KR>Spar dimensions, help needed > To All, > > I've been asked to assist in the repair of what appears to be a KR > derivitive. The center section of the box-type front spar is > fabricated in the typical > KR method of upper & lower booms faced with ply shear webs. Wing is fiberglas > over foam. The plane is not new and has accumulated quite a few > hours. > > The booms appear to be vertical grain DF, probably the Mountain > variety, very nice stuff (about 20 annular rings to the inch). Their > dimensions appears > to be 1-1/2" thick by a tad over 2" wide. > > Question: Is 1-1/2" the normal thickness for these booms? > > This airframe appears to be a stretched KR-1 fuselage with a KR-2 > wing (307" total span). I do not hold a set of KR-2 plans, have no > idea as to the > original spar dimensions. > > -R.S.Hoover > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 17:47:27 -0500 From: ejanssen@chipsnet.com (Ed Janssen) To: "Brian Kraut" , "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>wheel pants and CG Message-ID: <01ee01c391db$f9e1dc60$8d00a8c0@dad> References: <28606454.1066067333353.JavaMail.root@louie.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 6 John Backer's e-mail address is jsbacker@yahoo.com Ed Janssen mailto:ejanssen@chipsnet.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Kraut" To: "KR builders and pilots" Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 12:48 PM Subject: Re: KR>wheel pants and CG > John Backer made the pants according to the gathering photos. If he > is on the list or anyone has contact info I may interrested in buying a set also. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 18:48:00 EDT From: Veeduber@aol.com To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>Spar dimensions, help needed Message-ID: <147.1a94619d.2cbc85a0@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 7 In a message dated 10/13/03 3:22:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time, wayne@hispeedwireless.com writes: > Does anyone realise that bob hoover is on the krnet? ----------------------------------------------------------- Dear Wayne, You may have me confused with the real Bob Hoover. He's the world's best pilot. I'm a part-time mechanic. All Robert's get Bobbed at birth; we really don't have much say in the matter. But in the aviation world there's only one Bob Hoover and I ain't him, which is why I'm careful to sign my aviation-related messages as -R.S.Hoover ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:06:23 -0700 From: "Wayne Israelsen" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>Spar dimensions, help needed Message-ID: <010601c391de$9fb1c220$6701a8c0@HISPEEDWIRELESS.COM> References: <147.1a94619d.2cbc85a0@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 8 Sorry I guess I just got all afire and jumped without looking close.But just so you know I'm telling my wife that I talked to Bob Hoover today. Thanks Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 3:48 PM Subject: Re: KR>Spar dimensions, help needed > In a message dated 10/13/03 3:22:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > wayne@hispeedwireless.com writes: > > > Does anyone realise that bob hoover is on the krnet? > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > Dear Wayne, > > You may have me confused with the real Bob Hoover. He's the world's > best pilot. I'm a part-time mechanic. > > All Robert's get Bobbed at birth; we really don't have much say in the > matter. But in the aviation world there's only one Bob Hoover and I > ain't him, > which is why I'm careful to sign my aviation-related messages as > > -R.S.Hoover > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 18:41:21 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>Spar dimensions, help needed Message-ID: <128301c391e3$81b803b0$2402a8c0@800Athlon> References: <147.1a94619d.2cbc85a0@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 9 Bob Hoover wrote: > You may have me confused with the real Bob Hoover. He's the world's > best pilot. I'm a part-time mechanic. Don't let him fool you with that modesty. He's THE Bob Hoover in my book... the guy that's done more for the total understanding of VW engines than any other person on the internet. His website used to make mine look like a random collection of trivia! Thanks for taking the time to educate us all... Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL N56ML "at" hiwaay.net see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 17:01:48 -0700 From: "Wayne Israelsen" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>Spar dimensions, help needed Message-ID: <000901c391e6$5d01a3c0$6701a8c0@HISPEEDWIRELESS.COM> References: <147.1a94619d.2cbc85a0@aol.com> <128301c391e3$81b803b0$2402a8c0@800Athlon> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 10 The Bob Hoover that has helped me be a better partime mechanic, engine builder and made my VWs get home when others didn't. Is THE REAL Bob Hoover in my book. That other guy can sure fly too though. Thanks Wayne P.S. I second the Thanks Mark L. extended!!! ----- Original Message ----- From: Mark Langford To: KR builders and pilots Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 4:41 PM Subject: Re: KR>Spar dimensions, help needed > Bob Hoover wrote: > > > You may have me confused with the real Bob Hoover. He's the world's best > > pilot. I'm a part-time mechanic. > > Don't let him fool you with that modesty. He's THE Bob Hoover in my book... > the guy that's done more for the total understanding of VW engines > than any > other person on the internet. His website used to make mine look like > a random collection of trivia! > > Thanks for taking the time to educate us all... > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL > N56ML "at" hiwaay.net > see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 18:18:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Tim Brown To: KR Net Subject: KR>WARNING RE LANGFORD POST Message-ID: <20031014011814.54672.qmail@web40901.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 11 Don't open the recent WAF AGAIN Langford post. It has a virus and is NOT his e-mail. Tim __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 18:57:49 -0700 From: "David Mikesell" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>Spar dimensions, help needed Message-ID: <000f01c391f6$929ab2a0$03fea8c0@davids> References: <147.1a94619d.2cbc85a0@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 12 Yes, that is true while there is only one Bob Hoover. You are the R. S. Hoover who has helped me along with thousands of others with advice, answers to questions, and the right knowledge to make VW run as they should. Thanks also for the T2 stuff. David Mikesell 23957 N. Hwy 99 Acampo, CA 95220 209-609-8774 skyguynca@skyguynca.com www.skyguynca.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 3:48 PM Subject: Re: KR>Spar dimensions, help needed > In a message dated 10/13/03 3:22:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > wayne@hispeedwireless.com writes: > > > Does anyone realise that bob hoover is on the krnet? > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > Dear Wayne, > > You may have me confused with the real Bob Hoover. He's the world's > best pilot. I'm a part-time mechanic. > > All Robert's get Bobbed at birth; we really don't have much say in the > matter. But in the aviation world there's only one Bob Hoover and I > ain't him, > which is why I'm careful to sign my aviation-related messages as > > -R.S.Hoover > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 12:10:30 +0800 From: To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>Spar dimensions, help needed Message-ID: <000e01c39209$1c85d640$57fb12cb@intel> References: <184.21a3d205.2cbc69b0@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 13 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 4:48 AM Subject: KR>Spar dimensions, help needed > To All, > > I've been asked to assist in the repair of what appears to be a KR > derivitive. The center section of the box-type front spar is > fabricated in the typical > KR method of upper & lower booms faced with ply shear webs. Wing is fiberglas > over foam. The plane is not new and has accumulated quite a few > hours. > > The booms appear to be vertical grain DF, probably the Mountain > variety, very nice stuff (about 20 annular rings to the inch). Their > dimensions appears > to be 1-1/2" thick by a tad over 2" wide. > > Question: Is 1-1/2" the normal thickness for these booms? > > This airframe appears to be a stretched KR-1 fuselage with a KR-2 > wing (307" total span). I do not hold a set of KR-2 plans, have no > idea as to the > original spar dimensions. > > -R.S.Hoover > _______________________________________________no 83x2-5/32x2 KR Drawing no 5 > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 05:13:30 EDT From: Boeing757mech1@aol.com To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>Re: P-factor Message-ID: <11.1a610dba.2cbd183a@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 14 So I'm not sure what you are asking. P-Factor is an aerodynamic effect that causes propellor-driven planes to yaw when they are flown at high power and low speed (takeoff and climbout, for example.) At low speeds, the plane flies at a substantial angle of attack, and so the airflow is not parallel to the plane's axis. Relative to the plane, the airflow is directed several degrees upwards. Now the prop axis is normally parallel to the plane's axis. As the prop rotates, on one side the blades are travelling upwards and on the other side they are travelling downwards. (On most planes, the prop turns clockwise, as seen from behind, so the left side goes up and the right side goes down.) The upwards angle of the airflow causes the downward (right) side of the prop to have a greater airspeed and angle of attack than the upward (left) side. So the downward (right) side of the prop generates more thrust. Pull harder on the right side of the plane than on the left and the plane will yaw to the left. This is one of the reasons why most real prop planes need a certain amount of right rudder to keep them straight during takeoff and climbout. The other factor that requires right rudder on takeoff (in planes with clockwise props) is spiral propwash. The sideways component of the spiral propwash strikes the vertical stabilizer from the left (in conventional single engine configurations), also causing a yaw to the left. In general, the spiral propwash effect is a lot stronger than P-factor. You also need right aileron to keep the plane straight to counteract the rotational torque from the engine(s). Chris Theroux Gilbert AZ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:14:11 +0100 From: "Mac McConnell-Wood" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>Jabiru Engines Message-ID: <018501c3923b$ea8ada40$8fc9403e@tinypc> References: <5.1.1.6.0.20031013103556.009f7cb0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 15 I understand Colin Hales who flew from England to Australia , used a Jabiru in his KR. It would be good to hear his comments on the engine's performance. Regards Mac UK ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fisher, Dick" To: Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 3:40 PM Subject: KR>Jabiru Engines > The Jabiru 2200 80 HP costs about $9,200.00 and the > Jabiru 3300 120 HP is $12,900.00. They come complete > ready to install and are using the Bing carb. > There are many of them flying on the Sonex aircraft with > few reported problems. > > Dick Fisher > Franklin, PA > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 09:33:46 -0300 From: "Jim Sellars" To: "jerry allen" , "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>nose Gear Message-ID: <014901c39251$3831a610$a7a89aa5@LAPTOP> References: <002901c391bb$6a2494c0$07b62140@pavilion> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 16 Jerry : How much do you want for the nose gear section of your set-up? Please let me know. Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "jerry allen" To: Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 3:54 PM Subject: KR>nose Gear I have a Retractable Tricycle landing Gear A Modification by Bill De Freze. for sale. I am going back to the conventional. tail wheel and looking to by one also. allenjj@grantsburgtelcom.net _______________________________________________ see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 08:15:15 -0500 From: Don Woodyatt To: krnet Subject: KR>KR for sale Message-ID: <3F8BF6E3.8090801@illicom.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 17 All, It is with great displeasure that I write this e-mail, but things happen. Due to family circumstances, I find I must sell my KR-2S. It is about 75% complete and has just about everything included from the spinner to King xcvr and xponder to Poly Fiber paint. Over $23,000 invested. Asking price is $14,000. E-mail me more info. Don Woodyatt woody@illicom.net ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 09:51:19 -0700 From: "Wayne Israelsen" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>Re: P-factor (not KR related) Message-ID: <000501c39273$642d71a0$6701a8c0@HISPEEDWIRELESS.COM> References: <11.1a610dba.2cbd183a@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 18 Thanks Chris I'll try to explain. My dad has started to be concerned that he will not finish his KR2 before he loses his medical so when he came across a J3 Pup part 103 ultralight at a price he couldn't pass up he bought it. The problem is that when you raise the rear wheel the plane veers to the left hard enough to cause several ground loops. We have gone over every imaginable cause, alignment, trimtabs, C.O.G. even relocated the placement of the mains acording to Tony Bs book. Still the same problem. So yesterday Dad measured the thrust @ each main @ full power with the tail level. He found that there was 30% more thrust @ the right main wheel. So my question is this about normal and just a learning to fly this plane thing or should we start looking @ adjusting the engine mount to compensate. We have both flown tail dragers and neither of us have experianced this much P factor effect. It did just occurr to me that this is also the lighest Conventional gear we have flown. The Original builder says this is normal and with time we should be able to"learn to fly it fine"I would rather fix what i believe an obvious problem. Any coments would be apprecaited. Thanks Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 2:13 AM Subject: Re: KR>Re: P-factor > So I'm not sure what you are asking. > > > P-Factor is an aerodynamic effect that causes propellor-driven planes > to yaw ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 188, Issue 1 *************************************