From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net on behalf of krnet-request@mylist.net Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 9:52 PM To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 194, Issue 2 Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: OK VW Engine Weights (Phil Matheson) 2. Re: Revmaster Parts / Price (Phil Matheson) 3. Re: KR2SS (Phil Matheson) 4. strange engine problem (Brian Kraut) 5. Slotted Wings (Ron Freiberger) 6. (no subject) (Mark Jones) 7. Re: strange engine problem (KRJerry) 8. Re: Painting tips 9. Update (Mark Jones) 10. Re: CorvAircraft>Update (Mark Jones) 11. Re: New Update (Bob Glidden) 12. Looking for Les Palmer 13. Bolt question 14. Re: Bolt question (Mark Langford) 15. Re: Coaxial cable (Brian Kraut) 16. Looking for Les Palmer (Larry A Capps) 17. Re: paint (Brian Kraut) 18. Bolt Question 19. solar charging 20. Re: red paint reprieve (Mark Langford) 21. Re: Bolt Question (Mark Langford) 22. Newbie Questions (rick coykendall) 23. Bolt Question 24. Re: Painting tips (William Clapp) 25. Re: paint - brian kraut (William Clapp) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 06:19:13 +1000 From: "Phil Matheson" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>OK VW Engine Weights Message-ID: <001501c39747$80813750$1497dccb@Office> References: <20031016140928.73639.qmail@web42004.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 1 Ray wrote: What does a finished VW and/or Corvair weigh? Working on a single seat KR2S. Ray ------------------------------------------------------------------ Ray. The RG2000 from VW-Engines ( Australia) is as follows RG 2000 weighs 92 kg 2200 maybe 1 kg extra EFI makes them about 3 kg heavier because of the computer and pumps. More than compensated by the power. (Ron Slender VW Engine Centre.) Hope this helps. Phil Matheson matheson@dodo.com.au VH-PKR ( reserved) 61 3 58833588 See our VW Engines and Home built web page at http://www.vw-engines.com/ www.homebuilt-aviation.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 06:32:34 +1000 From: "Phil Matheson" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>Revmaster Parts / Price Message-ID: <003a01c39749$5de436f0$1497dccb@Office> References: <009301c392a4$eda214a0$d297dccb@StationW2k04> <007c01c392ae$2c220e20$6701a8c0@HISPEEDWIRELESS.COM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 2 Phil Joe @ Revmaster quoted the following prices but said he could give better service with more info, serial # ,year, history ect. 2180 crank $650.00 (Ididn't know what size you needed) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- Wayne Thanks I'll do some more checking Phil Matheson matheson@dodo.com.au VH-PKR ( reserved) 61 3 58833588 See our VW Engines and Home built web page at http://www.vw-engines.com/ www.homebuilt-aviation.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 07:31:27 +1000 From: "Phil Matheson" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>KR2SS Message-ID: <00d301c39751$99581e60$1497dccb@Office> References: <20031017134220.16208.qmail@web11006.mail.yahoo.com><3F906996.000001.02736@Computer> <1dd501c3950b$c72cd990$1202a8c0@basement> <004f01c3951f$452fef40$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 3 HI all. I had the great Pleasure in flying a KR2SS on the weekend. The owner Garry Morgan of Sydney, flew down to a weekend flying and is one of the nicest men you could meet. I have been talking to him via the net for some time, and we finally got to meet. KR2SS 27 foot w/Span 2100 Areopower engine , Stub wing tanks + header It started out as a KR, but like the KR2s it is stretched more then the KR2s. Larger wing to meet the aultalight rego, Dragonfly canopy ( Vision) Flys beautifully, and is not as touchy to fly as I was lead to believe.. I also flew a Wittman Tailwind, great aeroplane, BUT this is a touchy plane, much more so than a KR I have asked Mark Jones if I can put some photos on his web when I get them, it is truly a beautiful Kr. This has got me off my Butt to keep on building. Phil Matheson matheson@dodo.com.au VH-PKR ( reserved) 61 3 58833588 See our VW Engines and Home built web page at http://www.vw-engines.com/ www.homebuilt-aviation.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 17:59:05 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: Brian Kraut To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR>strange engine problem Message-ID: <347040.1066687145940.JavaMail.root@louie.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 4 I have a real strange engine problem and I was hoping someone could possibly shed some light on it for me. I have a VW2180 with a Zenith carb. The induction system for the carb has a round hole in the cowl that is about an inch and a half diameter. Behind that is a rectangular airbox that has a K&N filter element that is about 4 X 7". That goes into a piece of 2 1/2" SCAT tubing into the carb heat box which is mounted to the front of the carb. There are some pictures at www.engalt.com/kr2.htm My engine has been running pretty smooth except for a fraction of a second stumble about every thirty second to a minute. During a cross country last week at 8,500' it would give me the little stumble about every fifteen seconds after I was flying for a few hours. It isn't a stumble that would make you land, but one that you pay attention to. I have a cockpit mixture adjustment and had it out about an inch during cruise. The engine would run rough and loose power at two inches out, and it would still give the stumble and decrease RPM if it was pushed in any more so the best I could tell without an EGT is that I had the mixture adjusted correctly. The oil temp is fine and the CHT was only about 280 degrees. Just for grins I tried pulling the carb heat in case there was some icing even though there was no visible moisture and I was in Florida on an 85 degree day. I noticed that when it was all the way on I got the normal decrease in RPM, but when it was about half way on the engine smoothed out, picked up 100 RPM, and ran perfectly. My first thought is that maybee I had the mixture lean because the mixture richens a bit when carb heat is on, but with the carb heat off I got a definite RPM decrease if I pushed the mixture in more and it didn't make the engine run any smoother. Another thought is that I was getting a lot of ram air pressure which was leaning the mixture, but again, that doesn't explain the fact that the engine runs best at altitude with the mixture pulled back some. I thought that maybe I had to much resistance through the filter and opening the carb heat some gave me more air, but that would have made it richer and leaning it more would have made the engine run smooth, which it didn't. Mark had a post a while ago about someone who had a ram air system that didn't port the float bowl air vent to the same pressure that is at the front of the carb and I possibly have the same problem, but I don't think that I am getting that much ram pressure with the filter and I have the same symptoms on the ground or in very slow flight when I have almost no ram pressure. Any one have any clue what this could be? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 18:02:32 -0400 From: "Ron Freiberger" To: "KR Builders and Flyers" Subject: KR>Slotted Wings Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 5 I've looked for some design data on slotted airfoils, and all I found was Fred Weick, published in about 1933. Does anyone on the NET have any detail info on slotted wings? I'm still interested in the sport pilot issues and stall speed considerations. I wonder if there would be any advantage, other than stall speed, since the KR landing attitude is low. Maybe gear it up like a Fiesler Storch? Ron Freiberger mailto: rfreiberger@swfla.rr.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 18:37:37 -0500 From: "Mark Jones" To: "KR Net" Subject: KR>(no subject) Message-ID: <009301c39763$25a78d40$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 6 Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA=20 E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at =20 http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 19:36:39 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) From: "KRJerry" To: , , Subject: Re: KR>strange engine problem Message-ID: <3F947187.000001.02284@oldmerlin> References: <347040.1066687145940.JavaMail.root@louie.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 7 Brian,=0D =0D =2E......it may have been ice. I have seen your type of set up setting o= n the tarmac at 100 degrees with frost all around the Zenith carb.....=0D =0D Just a guess.... =0D =0D KRJerry=0D Jerry Mahurin=0D Lugoff, SC=0D e-mail: KRJerry@bellsouth.net=0D Website: http://KR-Builder.org =0D -------Original Message-------=0D =0D From: Brian Kraut; KR builders and pilots=0D Date: Monday, October 20, 2003 17:59:15=0D To: krnet@mylist.net=0D Subject: KR>strange engine problem=0D =0D I have a real strange engine problem and I was hoping someone could possi= bly shed some light on it for me. I have a VW2180 with a Zenith carb. The induction system for the carb has a round hole in the cowl that is about = an inch and a half diameter. Behind that is a rectangular airbox that has a = K&N filter element that is about 4 X 7". That goes into a piece of 2 1/2" SCA= T tubing into the carb heat box which is mounted to the front of the carb. There are some pictures at www.engalt.com/kr2.htm=0D =0D My engine has been running pretty smooth except for a fraction of a secon= d stumble about every thirty second to a minute. During a cross country las= t week at 8,500' it would give me the little stumble about every fifteen seconds after I was flying for a few hours. It isn't a stumble that would make you land, but one that you pay attention to. I have a cockpit mixtur= e adjustment and had it out about an inch during cruise. The engine would r= un rough and loose power at two inches out, and it would still give the stum= ble and decrease RPM if it was pushed in any more so the best I could tell without an EGT is that I had the mixture adjusted correctly. The oil temp= is fine and the CHT was only about 280 degrees.=0D =0D Just for grins I tried pulling the carb heat in case there was some icing even though there was no visible moisture and I was in Florida on an 85 degree day. I noticed that when it was all the way on I got the normal decrease in RPM, but when it was about half way on the engine smoothed ou= t, picked up 100 RPM, and ran perfectly.=0D =0D My first thought is that maybee I had the mixture lean because the mixtur= e richens a bit when carb heat is on, but with the carb heat off I got a definite RPM decrease if I pushed the mixture in more and it didn't make = the engine run any smoother. Another thought is that I was getting a lot of r= am air pressure which was leaning the mixture, but again, that doesn't expla= in the fact that the engine runs best at altitude with the mixture pulled ba= ck some. I thought that maybe I had to much resistance through the filter an= d opening the carb heat some gave me more air, but that would have made it richer and leaning it more would have made the engine run smooth, which i= t didn't.=0D =0D Mark had a post a while ago about someone who had a ram air system that d= idn t port the float bowl air vent to the same pressure that is at the front = of the carb and I possibly have the same problem, but I don't think that I a= m getting that much ram pressure with the filter and I have the same sympto= ms on the ground or in very slow flight when I have almost no ram pressure.=0D =0D Any one have any clue what this could be?=0D =0D =0D =0D _______________________________________________=0D see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html=0D =2EFrom flykr2s@wi.rr.com Mon Oct 20 16:40:40 2003 Received: from ms-smtp-02.rdc-kc.rr.com ([24.94.166.122]) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1ABjdg-000Cgx-00; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:40:40 -0700 Received: from mark (CPE-65-31-89-55.wi.rr.com [65.31.89.55]) by ms-smtp-02.rdc-kc.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id h9KNiWhN019005;Mon, 20 Oct 2003 18:44:36 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <001501c39764$42be5700$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> From: "Mark Jones" To: "Corvaircraft" , "KR Net" Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 18:45:34 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1b3 Subject: KR>New Update X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KR builders and pilots List-Id: KR builders and pilots List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: My Corvaircraft is looking better every day. Check out the new feature = photo on my web page to see how my plane looks now that I have applied = Smooth Prime to most all surfaces. Here is the link = http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html =20 Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA=20 E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at =20 http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 19:50:23 -0400 From: To: KR builders and pilots Subject: Re: KR>Painting tips Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <001e01c396c7$7cf07ea0$04fcd241@clapp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: list Message: 8 >Bill Wrote > Now, I do have a 18 X 25 downdraft paint booth with >10 foot ceilings that I use for my car restorations. I >told Art Bruce that since he is a local guy once he gets >to the finishing stage I can make my shop available for >him - or others if interested - to come finish wings / >fuse and paint them here. I can also make my services >available if you want me to do it as part of my business. > Just a suggestion. I know it is hard to find a paint >booth to do this work at sometimes - most shops arent >interested in helping broke KR builders paint. > >Happy Building - Bill Bill WHERE ARE YOU???? YOUR POST WAS GREAT Also Finishing a restoration of 1964 VW Dunebuggy Manx Style Body used an acrylic enamel Paint I DID NOT LIKE. I think its toooo soft. You paint, you know what I mean. I wont use it for the KR. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 17:35:59 -0500 From: "Mark Jones" To: "Corvaircraft" , "KR Net" Subject: KR>Update Message-ID: <003e01c3975a$893c7f40$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 9 My Corvaircraft is looking better every day. Check out the new feature = photo on my web page to see how my plane looks now that I have applied = Smooth Prime to most all surfaces. Here is the link = http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA=20 E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at =20 http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 19:25:01 -0500 From: "Mark Jones" To: "KR Net" , "Corvair engines for homebuilt aircraft" Subject: KR>Re: CorvAircraft>Update Message-ID: <003101c39769$c4cdfca0$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> References: <003e01c3975a$893c7f40$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 10 Sorry for the duplicate post about my update. My error. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 19:35:15 -0500 From: "Bob Glidden" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>New Update Message-ID: <05eb01c3976b$32875290$6401a8c0@COMPUTER1> References: <001501c39764$42be5700$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 11 Just figured you really wanted us to see it... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Jones" To: "Corvaircraft" ; "KR Net" Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 6:45 PM Subject: KR>New Update My Corvaircraft is looking better every day. Check out the new feature photo on my web page to see how my plane looks now that I have applied Smooth Prime to most all surfaces. Here is the link http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html _______________________________________________ see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 20:50:32 EDT From: Timboyer2@wmconnect.com To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR>Looking for Les Palmer Message-ID: <60.36b0f8a7.2cc5dcd8@wmconnect.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 12 Does anyone have the correct phone number for Les Palmer? I need to get in touch with him Thanks ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 21:31:44 EDT From: Timboyer2@wmconnect.com To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR>Bolt question Message-ID: <4b.3554b929.2cc5e680@wmconnect.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 13 With the aid of my youngest son I lost the bolts to my wing attachments were the out board wing bolts to the wing stubs I use 4 bolts for the forward and aft attachments I know the forward attachments use AN6 and the Aft use AN3 but I can get the length right I have made 3 different orders thinking I have the right length only to find out the grip is to long and there's not enough thread to tighten them up Does anyone have the part number for these bolts or correct size I'm turning gray trying to get this right Thanks Tim ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 20:42:38 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>Bolt question Message-ID: <204f01c39774$9c4ae3a0$1202a8c0@basement> References: <4b.3554b929.2cc5e680@wmconnect.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 14 Tim Boyer wrote: > Does anyone have the part number for these bolts or > correct size I'm turning gray trying to get this right AN6-6A for the big ones, AN3-5A for the small ones Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL N56ML "at" hiwaay.net see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 21:51:48 -0400 From: Brian Kraut To: KR builders and pilots Subject: Re: KR>Coaxial cable Message-ID: <3F949134.3080507@earthlink.net> References: <004901c39442$07a349c0$0900a8c0@oemcomputer> <3F8F3BF8.000005.03576@oldmerlin> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 15 The RS stuff is only 60 to 70% shielded. You would be better off with a good 100% braided shield cable. The big problem with solid center conductor cable, especially with BNC connectors, is the wire cracking inside the connector right where the pin is soldered to it. I have seen it happen a lot of times in my work. KRJerry wrote: >Jim, > > > >I've never had any trouble with the 'McShack' RG58 (50ohm) solid wire cable > I use the solid wire cause it is easier to work with and you don't need >the braided unless you are going to put it in some high flexing area. Just >be sure and get the length you need from bulk roll in the back of the store. > Don't get the pre packaged stuff....it costs more. > > > >Jim Weir, who built the antennas for Voyager (12 of em) and antenna Guru in >general, uses the Radio Shack stuff and sez he can't tell any diffrence in >performance. > > > >KRJerry > >Jerry Mahurin > >Lugoff, SC > >e-mail: KRJerry@bellsouth.net > >Website: http://KR-Builder.org > >-------Original Message------- > > > >From: KR builders and pilots > >Date: Thursday, October 16, 2003 8:01:46 PM > >To: krnet > >Subject: KR>Coaxial cable > > > >All aircraft radios use 50 ohm cable. Be sure to use RG58 FOAM. The foam >coax has about 1/4 the loss of the regular RG58. You can buy it at any >two-way communications shop or in the internet. The Radio Shack stuff may >cost 20% less, but it is almost as bad as hooking up the antenna using the >zip cord used on table lamps. > > > > Jim Vance > > Vance@ClaflinWildcats >com_______________________________________________ > >see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > >._______________________________________________ >see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 20:52:49 -0500 From: "Larry A Capps" To: "'KR builders and pilots'" Subject: KR>Looking for Les Palmer Message-ID: <000601c39776$07ed6780$0200a8c0@schpankme> In-Reply-To: <60.36b0f8a7.2cc5dcd8@wmconnect.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 16 Touch away >:) Les Palmer phone (972) 241-4387 call anytime Regards, Larry A. Capps KR Newsletter CD Naperville, IL Strange, this info came from the KR Mail Archives http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp -----Original Message----- Does anyone have the correct phone number for Les Palmer? I need to get in touch with him ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 21:59:12 -0400 From: Brian Kraut To: KR builders and pilots Subject: Re: KR>paint Message-ID: <3F9492F0.8020103@earthlink.net> References: <20031017134220.16208.qmail@web11006.mail.yahoo.com> <3F906996.000001.02736@Computer> <1dd501c3950b$c72cd990$1202a8c0@basement> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 17 When I painted my wing tips and rudder blue I figured that if I wound up destroying the glass after a few years from the heat I could easily strip off the glass with an orbital sander and reglass them. The fusalage sides and bottom are plywood and if there is glass on them it isn't needed anyway. The turtledeck isn't structural and Mark has made so many of them that it would be no big deal to remake one if the heat ruined it. Mark Langford wrote: >Y'all can just go ahead and call me stupid, but my airplane's gonna be red. >Again, I'll say that when the plane is sitting on gear, there are no >stresses on any composites, other than the Scotchply 3M gear legs. My wings >are covered with two layers of carbon fiber (three on the leading edge), >which you might remember, are supported by 3/8 to 1/2" of urethane foam, >which is supported by an inner layer of fiberglass. > >So let's just say my composite skin gets up to Tg, the temperature at which >the strength of the epoxy is significantly reduced. For Aeropoxy, that's >194 degrees F for layups cured at room temperature. It's normally good for >something like 45,000 psi. I'd call "significant" something like 75%, but >lets just be conservative and say that the strength is cut in half. Now >it's down to ONLY 22,500 psi. But wait, I have a half inch layer of foam >being supporting by another layer of fiberglass that's at least 30 degrees >cooler (my inner skin). And don't forget, there is absolutely no external >influence on this surface, other than gravity pulling down on something that >weighs just about nothing. > >I actually called myself "post curing" my stub wings right after they were >constructed, by parking the plane out in the sun one hot day that summer, >shortly after construction. I taped (using clear tape) a Fluke 52 digital >recording thermometer's thermocouple to the black, unpainted surface, and >the best I can remember, the highest temperature I ever saw was 128 degrees >F. Don't forget, it's "air-cooled", just sitting there! > >Given the rule of thumb that your Tg will be raised to 50 degrees over the >post cure temp, I was probably wasting my time at that "low" temperature. >So when is it going to see 194 degrees? Never. And what effect would it >have if it DID see 194 degrees? None. And how much strength is required >of the skin, just sitting there on the tarmac? Absolutely none. And how >long does it take something as thin and massless as a .020" thick layer of >carbon fiber layup to cool off with a 30 mph breeze blowing on it during >takeoff? About 5 seconds. > >The few horror stories you hear about planes "melting" in the sun are >referring to airplanes with composite parts such as spars and stressed skins >supporting the load while parked. Neither of these apply to my plane. > >Sorry, but I have a bad habit of getting the facts, considering all aspects >of the situation, and making my own decisions. It's gonna be red, and if >y'all don't like it, you can just get over it... > >http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/03101703m.jpg > >Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL >N56ML "at" hiwaay.net >see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > > >_______________________________________________ >see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 22:17:41 EDT From: WA7YXF@aol.com To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR>Bolt Question Message-ID: <174.218df1cc.2cc5f145@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 18 Tim Boyer wrote: Does anyone have the part number for these bolts or correct size I'm turning gray trying to get this right AN6-6A for the big ones, AN3-5A for the small ones Mark Langford Tim I know what your going through. I have had to reorder bolts so many times. I sometimes think I have enough left over to build another KR. In length, you are only talking about 2 or 3 threads and it would be rare to find that two of us built the spar, web, metal and T-88 combination and came out the same. You might just have to measure up the best you can and try again. Lynn Hyder ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 22:18:53 EDT From: Flymaca711689@aol.com To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR>solar charging Message-ID: <41.3567242f.2cc5f18d@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 19 hi all i am in the middle of converting to a great planes intake manifold and my case is old and uses a rear alternator . belts drove off the mag adapter so i have no clearance for the manifold so off it come so IM going to try using a solar panel all i use power for is starter and two min turn indicator. i have a transponder but i don't use it all the time my radio is portble so I think it might work the gel cell IM using seams very strong and holds charge good so all see . billy mcfarland n1055a ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 21:31:06 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>red paint reprieve Message-ID: <001401c3977b$61acc4f0$2402a8c0@800Athlon> References: <20031017134220.16208.qmail@web11006.mail.yahoo.com><3F906996.000001.02736@Computer> <1dd501c3950b$c72cd990$1202a8c0@basement> <3F9492F0.8020103@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 20 I got several private emails about how ugly my plane was going to be after I'd painted it red. But who cares, it's my plane, right? Then my wife spied the photo of the red GP-4 in the recent issue of Kitplanes that I left sitting next to my throne, and that was "all she wrote". She says that's just too much red for any one place, so it'll have to be some other color on top. Hey, she's the boss, and she's probably right too. Now I'm thinking of leaving the bottom red, making the sides a medium gray, and making the top a light gray. We'll see how that goes. She says I've spent so much time making it perfect, that it should be a special paint job (hmmm, sounds like I've heard that before too). So the bottom will stay red, but the rest will be something else. I may even go ahead and fly the thing in primer on top, and worry about paint later. But for now, it's in primer and I'm going to get on with other matters. Once the plane is built, my next mission is a major remodeling of our house, which will include a paint booth, complete with filtration and a zillion lights. They've been ripping out all the T-12 fluorescent lights at work and replacing them with T-8s, and throwing the old fixtures out by the hundred. They are very nice heavy duty units, but 277 volts. But I've discovered that by cutting one blue wire from each ballast and wiring them to 115V, they work just great and the bulbs last forever! So I have 36 four-tube fixtures stacked up in the corner. That ought to light up the whole basement nicely! Anyway, my point is that I may just wait until I have a proper paint booth to finish the job... Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL N56ML "at" hiwaay.net see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 21:46:58 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>Bolt Question Message-ID: <205701c3977d$9aa1b160$1202a8c0@basement> References: <174.218df1cc.2cc5f145@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 21 Lyne wrote: > Tim I know what your going through. I have had to reorder bolts so many > times. I sometimes think I have enough left over to build another KR. In length, > you are only talking about 2 or 3 threads and it would be rare to find that > two of us built the spar, web, metal and T-88 combination and came out the same. Now, if he's talking about going through both front and rear WAFs at the same time, that's a different story. Surely he's not considering deviating from the plans??? But if that's the case, then don't forget you'll need a 4130 tubing spacer between the WAFs so you can tighten the whole thing up. That's kinda like the handheld radio antenna question the other day. You could take it two ways. I thought he meant would it work as well as a spamcan with an external handheld radio antenna, but Bill probably correctly guessed that he meant would a handheld work as well in a KR painted with metallic paint as it would in a spamcan. Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL N56ML "at" hiwaay.net see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 21:15:25 -0700 (PDT) From: rick coykendall To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR>Newbie Questions Message-ID: <20031021041525.91686.qmail@web9407.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 22 Greetings all, I’ve been working on an Ison (formerly TEAM) VMax and am interested in switching to a two-seater before I get much further into the project. A fellow EAAer is selling a KR-2 project and I’m seriously thinking of picking it up. I have some questions for those of you who have flying experience with the KR-2: 1. I weight 145, and as a low-time pilot would want to fly with someone experience any time I went up. I know everyone asks this, but is it really a two-place aircraft? 2. The plane I’m looking at is in the boat stage, the workmanship looks terrific, but the work was done 20 years ago and the fuse was widened 4 inches. Is the extra width an issue in terms of flying characteristics? 3. Given the widened fuse, how difficult would it be to fit a preformed canopy and cowling (not included in the package). Regards, Rick Coykendall Northern California Bay Area rickcoy@yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 00:40:45 EDT From: WA7YXF@aol.com To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR>Bolt Question Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 23 I don't know why in the heck, I was thinking he meant the bolts through the WAFs. Lynn ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 00:55:08 -0400 From: "William Clapp" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>Painting tips Message-ID: <002501c3978f$813bc000$09fcd241@clapp> References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 24 My shop is in Valdosta Georgia - 10 miles north of Florida on I 75. Yes the acrylic enamel can be a bit soft if not hardened properly. I most always put a couple coats of urethane clear over the top - I have also mixed clear and acrylic enamel and it works well as a top coat. This makes a sandable and buffable coat. I usually us the basecoat/clearcoat system with any pearls and metal flake or custom paints. It shoots much easier and allows the flakes to fall more evenly. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: To: KR builders and pilots Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 7:50 PM Subject: Re: KR>Painting tips > > >Bill Wrote > > > Now, I do have a 18 X 25 downdraft paint booth with > >10 foot ceilings that I use for my car restorations. I > >told Art Bruce that since he is a local guy once he gets > >to the finishing stage I can make my shop available for > >him - or others if interested - to come finish wings / > >fuse and paint them here. I can also make my services > >available if you want me to do it as part of my business. > > Just a suggestion. I know it is hard to find a paint > >booth to do this work at sometimes - most shops arent > >interested in helping broke KR builders paint. > > > >Happy Building - Bill > > > Bill > > WHERE ARE YOU???? > YOUR POST WAS GREAT > Also Finishing a restoration of 1964 VW Dunebuggy Manx > Style Body used an acrylic enamel Paint I DID NOT LIKE. I > think its toooo soft. You paint, you know what I mean. > I wont use it for the KR. > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 00:58:00 -0400 From: "William Clapp" To: , "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>paint - brian kraut Message-ID: <003901c3978f$e7ff6da0$09fcd241@clapp> References: <20031017134220.16208.qmail@web11006.mail.yahoo.com><3F906996.000001.02736@Computer> <1dd501c3950b$c72cd990$1202a8c0@basement> <3F9492F0.8020103@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 25 Brian - send me your email address if you can - I have a matching car for you plane - send you a pic. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: Brian Kraut To: KR builders and pilots Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 9:59 PM Subject: Re: KR>paint > When I painted my wing tips and rudder blue I figured that if I wound up > destroying the glass after a few years from the heat I could easily > strip off the glass with an orbital sander and reglass them. The > fusalage sides and bottom are plywood and if there is glass on them it > isn't needed anyway. The turtledeck isn't structural and Mark has made > so many of them that it would be no big deal to remake one if the heat > ruined it. > > Mark Langford wrote: > > >Y'all can just go ahead and call me stupid, but my airplane's gonna be red. > >Again, I'll say that when the plane is sitting on gear, there are no > >stresses on any composites, other than the Scotchply 3M gear legs. My wings > >are covered with two layers of carbon fiber (three on the leading edge), > >which you might remember, are supported by 3/8 to 1/2" of urethane foam, > >which is supported by an inner layer of fiberglass. > > > >So let's just say my composite skin gets up to Tg, the temperature at which > >the strength of the epoxy is significantly reduced. For Aeropoxy, that's > >194 degrees F for layups cured at room temperature. It's normally good for > >something like 45,000 psi. I'd call "significant" something like 75%, but > >lets just be conservative and say that the strength is cut in half. Now > >it's down to ONLY 22,500 psi. But wait, I have a half inch layer of foam > >being supporting by another layer of fiberglass that's at least 30 degrees > >cooler (my inner skin). And don't forget, there is absolutely no external > >influence on this surface, other than gravity pulling down on something that > >weighs just about nothing. > > > >I actually called myself "post curing" my stub wings right after they were > >constructed, by parking the plane out in the sun one hot day that summer, > >shortly after construction. I taped (using clear tape) a Fluke 52 digital > >recording thermometer's thermocouple to the black, unpainted surface, and > >the best I can remember, the highest temperature I ever saw was 128 degrees > >F. Don't forget, it's "air-cooled", just sitting there! > > > >Given the rule of thumb that your Tg will be raised to 50 degrees over the > >post cure temp, I was probably wasting my time at that "low" temperature. > >So when is it going to see 194 degrees? Never. And what effect would it > >have if it DID see 194 degrees? None. And how much strength is required > >of the skin, just sitting there on the tarmac? Absolutely none. And how > >long does it take something as thin and massless as a .020" thick layer of > >carbon fiber layup to cool off with a 30 mph breeze blowing on it during > >takeoff? About 5 seconds. > > > >The few horror stories you hear about planes "melting" in the sun are > >referring to airplanes with composite parts such as spars and stressed skins > >supporting the load while parked. Neither of these apply to my plane. > > > >Sorry, but I have a bad habit of getting the facts, considering all aspects > >of the situation, and making my own decisions. It's gonna be red, and if > >y'all don't like it, you can just get over it... > > > >http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/03101703m.jpg > > > >Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL > >N56ML "at" hiwaay.net > >see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 194, Issue 2 *************************************