From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net on behalf of krnet-request@mylist.net Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 7:07 AM To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 197, Issue 1 Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. finishing composites (Larry A Capps) 2. Re: Ordering plans - kit (Mark Jones) 3. Re: Filling Pin Holes (Mark Jones) 4. Re: Filling Pin Holes (Rick Human) 5. EGT scale (Brian Kraut) 6. VW, Corvair or 0200? (rick coykendall) 7. Re: Newbie Questions (rick coykendall) 8. Re: finishing composites (Steve and Lori McGee) 9. Re: Ordering plans - kit (Steve and Lori McGee) 10. Re: Re: rough engine. (cgardn628) 11. Re: EGT scale (cgardn628) 12. Re: KR2SS Photo.s (Phillip Matheson) 13. Aft Otbd Wing Spars? 14. Re: Newbie Questions (Dan Heath) 15. Re: Ordering plans - kit (Sylvester Stys) 16. Re: VW Engine Rockers (Wayne Israelsen) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 21:07:36 -0500 From: "Larry A Capps" To: "'KR builders and pilots'" Subject: KR>finishing composites Message-ID: <000201c3990a$6e12e2c0$0200a8c0@schpankme> In-Reply-To: <000d01c3989a$746f90c0$8d00a8c0@dad> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 1 FINISHING COMPOSITES COMMANDMENTS _________________________________________________ THOU SHALT NOT USE POLYESTER BASED PRODUCTS. THOU SHALT NOT SANDBLAST. THOU SHALT NOT TOUCH THY FRESH PAINT JOB TILL A FORT NIGHT. THOU SHALT NOT INHALE DUST AND SPRY PARTICLES. THOU SHALT NOT USE A DUST MASK, BEHOLD THY RESPIRATOR. THOU SHALT NOT ALLOW SPRAY PARTICLES ON THY SKIN. THOU SHALT NOT FORGET EYE PROTECTION. THOU SHALT NOT HAVE A UNCLEAN WORK AREA. THOU SHALT NOT WORK IN AN UNVENTILATED AREA. THOU SHALT NOT Larry A Capps KR Newsletter CD Naperville, IL -----Original Message----- This is mainly for you new guys who are reading as much as you can about finishing a composite airplane. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 21:08:10 -0500 From: "Mark Jones" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>Ordering plans - kit Message-ID: <000701c3990a$830e9700$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> References: <004b01c398f8$8c8b0be0$0302a8c0@lori8v5h2xi9m3> <005a01c398f9$a8ca1340$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> <005501c398fd$b8db1820$0302a8c0@lori8v5h2xi9m3> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 2 I would be more than happy to have you visit. When would you like to come? Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve and Lori McGee" To: "KR builders and pilots" Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 7:36 PM Subject: Re: KR>Ordering plans - kit > Thank you - guess I will have to wait or get a phone number. > > Can we set up a time when I can see your plane? > > Steve > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark Jones" > To: "KR builders and pilots" > Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 7:07 PM > Subject: Re: KR>Ordering plans - kit > > > > Hi Steve, > > I am 25 miles west of Milwaukee off I-94. The Rand website is > > www.fly-kr.com however I too noticed earlier today this site was not > > working. > > > > Mark Jones (N886MJ) > > Wales, WI USA > > E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com > > Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at > > http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Steve and Lori McGee" > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 6:59 PM > > Subject: KR>Ordering plans - kit > > > > > > Can someone point me to a website or phone # to get the current list > > and prices for plans, etc.. I have tried the URL in some web pages and they > > keep coming up "not found". I am ready to grow my wings and am about > 100% > > set on the KR2S. I would also like to see some KR2s if there are > > any in > my > > area. (Central Wisc.) Any help would be appreciated. Thanks! > > > > Steve McGee > > _______________________________________________ > > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 21:15:59 -0500 From: "Mark Jones" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>Filling Pin Holes Message-ID: <002701c3990b$99fd2520$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> References: <004a01c398f5$87f07c80$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> <3F9732BA.000025.02772@Computer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 3 Dan, This is not a method I devised. I copied it from another's web site. I am heading out to the garage right now to try this method in a small area. I was just wondering if anyone else had tried this and what results they got. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Heath" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 8:45 PM Subject: Re: KR>Filling Pin Holes Mark J., Where have you been all of my SANDING life? Thank you. N64KR Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC DanRH@KR-Builder.org See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org -------Original Message------- From: KR builders and pilots Date: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 7:37:25 PM To: KR Net Subject: KR>Filling Pin Holes Has anyone tried the following method? What are the methods you use to fill pin holes??? Pinholes These are tiny voids, bubbles and pits caused by air mixed into the filler. They are invisible until the minute you start spraying the first coat of primer. They can give you a big headache if you attack them the wrong way. You might have heard horror stories of builders spraying coat after coat of primer trying to get rid of them. The bottom line is, you cannot fill the pinholes by spraying. Yes, if you keep spraying long enough, eventually they will disappear, but they will not be filled, they will be bridged. Bridged pinholes can cause the painted surface to develop little pimple like bumps on the sun when the paint softens some and the trapped air expands with the heat. Luckily, we have a simple effective way how to deal with pinholes before we even see any. Vacuum the surface real well to remove any dust and then squeegee pure epoxy resin over the surface. The coat is very thin and the amount of resin is mall, you are basically just wetting the surface, give it some time to soak in and squeegee off all the excess. The resin has very low surface tension so it flows into all those small voids and because unlike primers it doesn't contain any volatiles it doesn't shrink as it cures so the fill is complete. The second benefit of this step is that the resins hardens the top shell of the micro, making it more durable. A word of caution, many epoxy resins do not cure well and stay gummy at very thin coat, especially in humid condition. If yours is one of those or you are not sure, use the West system epoxy for this. When this top coat is cured sand it lightly with 100 just to break the gloss and you are ready for the primer. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html _______________________________________________ see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ._______________________________________________ see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 21:47:37 -0500 From: "Rick Human" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>Filling Pin Holes Message-ID: <003101c39910$055ec810$62d6dacf@desktop> References: <004a01c398f5$87f07c80$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 4 Yes I did - seemed to work well - it was originally described by the Rutan folks - one of his hired guns - if I remember right weight a gallon of featherfil and a gallon of ez poxy - guess which is lighter. Smooth prime hadn't made it to the market yet. Anyway that's the way I finished mine - it does take several applications - but you use significantly less epoxy with each pass. You can see the pinholes fill up with the epoxy as you wipe it across the surface - the trick is to squeegee like mad - you actually try to wipe off as much of it as you can - the idea is to fill the hole not to lay up a thick coat. Remember straight epoxy - no microballoons at this point. BTW did this in the heat of a Houston summer (I was using Ez Poxy before it was taken off the market) - can you say humid? didn't have any problems with the cure but you do become a dehydrated puppy - and develop a good case of tendonitis or carpel tunnel! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Jones" To: "KR Net" Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 6:38 PM Subject: KR>Filling Pin Holes Has anyone tried the following method? What are the methods you use to fill pin holes??? Pinholes These are tiny voids, bubbles and pits caused by air mixed into the filler. They are invisible until the minute you start spraying the first coat of primer. They can give you a big headache if you attack them the wrong way. You might have heard horror stories of builders spraying coat after coat of primer trying to get rid of them. The bottom line is, you cannot fill the pinholes by spraying. Yes, if you keep spraying long enough, eventually they will disappear, but they will not be filled, they will be bridged. Bridged pinholes can cause the painted surface to develop little pimple like bumps on the sun when the paint softens some and the trapped air expands with the heat. Luckily, we have a simple effective way how to deal with pinholes before we even see any. Vacuum the surface real well to remove any dust and then squeegee pure epoxy resin over the surface. The coat is very thin and the amount of resin is mall, you are basically just wetting the surface, give it some time to soak in and squeegee off all the excess. The resin has very low surface tension so it flows into all those small voids and because unlike primers it doesn't contain any volatiles it doesn't shrink as it cures so the fill is complete. The second benefit of this step is that the resins hardens the top shell of the micro, making it more durable. A word of caution, many epoxy resins do not cure well and stay gummy at very thin coat, especially in humid condition. If yours is one of those or you are not sure, use the West system epoxy for this. When this top coat is cured sand it lightly with 100 just to break the gloss, and you are ready for the primer. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html _______________________________________________ see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 22:55:39 -0400 From: Brian Kraut To: KRNET Subject: KR>EGT scale Message-ID: <3F97432B.8020703@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 5 I am having Westach make me a custom quad gauge with an EGT, MAP, temp, and mixture indication (enough guessing what is going on with my engine). The mixture uses an exhaust oxygen sensor like the Avmix aviation units and the units that are sold for race cars. I will install a switch to give me either carb air temp or outside air temp on the temp position. Since they are doing a custom gauge with a custom face I have my choice of range on the EGT. The Great Plains manual says that EGT is normally 1,150 degrees and red line is 1,500 degrees. I was planning on having the range scale from 700-1,500 degrees. Can someone with an EGT on a VW tell me what the lowest EGT you normally see is. I would like to have them make the instrument with the bottom of the scale to be at the lowest normal EGT that I will see so I will have the maximum swing on the needle. By the way, I have said before that there are some great people at Westach. They were extreemely helpful when I had some problems with a fuel sender and have been great with this gauge also. I always knew that they could do the quads with different arrangements than their standard instruments, but I never realized that they will do custom range scales, and indications that they don't advertize like the mixture indication and MAP. The price for the custom instrument is also only slightly higher than their standard quads. I highly recomend talking to them if anyone needs something unusual, not to mention that their standard instruments are great also. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 20:48:45 -0700 (PDT) From: rick coykendall To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR>VW, Corvair or 0200? Message-ID: <20031023034845.73211.qmail@web9402.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <3F973580.000029.02772@Computer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 6 Thanks for your responses, Dan. I don't know the size of the VW that the project comes with, but assuming that I can have it bored out to say, 2180 -- would that be enough for two people weighing around 150 lbs each? Or is a Corvair or 0200 really required? Rick --- Dan Heath wrote: > If built properly, with the appropriate power plant > and the CG in the right, > absolutely. I also was a low time pilot, and my > first KR did not have > enough power nor was the CG in the right place for > 2. > …Put on a nice Corvair or 0200 > and you should be good to go. The plane I am > working on now was started > almost that long ago. If properly kept, it should > not be a problem, but you > should be able to tell if it has been properly > housed. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 20:53:25 -0700 (PDT) From: rick coykendall To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>Newbie Questions Message-ID: <20031023035325.73489.qmail@web9402.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <49d101c3990a$55dfd140$1202a8c0@basement> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 7 Thank you, Mark. It also comes with the premolded turtledeck and forward deck. Would I just cut these in half and fill them with BID -- will that be strong enough? Rick --- Mark Langford wrote: > > 3. Given the widened fuse, how difficult would it > be > > to fit a preformed canopy and cowling (not > included in > > the package). > > RR will be quick to tell you that their canopy will > not fit a KR2 or S > that's been widened more than 1.5". I doubt that > the firewall is widened > 4", but if it is, their cowling certainly won't fit > either. The Dragonfly > will fit perfectly though, as detailed at > http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/kcf.html . > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL > N56ML "at" hiwaay.net > see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 23:23:08 -0500 From: "Steve and Lori McGee" To: , "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>finishing composites Message-ID: <001501c3991d$5d491dc0$0302a8c0@lori8v5h2xi9m3> References: <000201c3990a$6e12e2c0$0200a8c0@schpankme> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 8 And why not polyester? Are you refering to automotive fibre glass resin? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry A Capps" To: "'KR builders and pilots'" Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 9:07 PM Subject: KR>finishing composites > FINISHING COMPOSITES COMMANDMENTS > _________________________________________________ > > THOU SHALT NOT USE POLYESTER BASED PRODUCTS. > > THOU SHALT NOT SANDBLAST. > > THOU SHALT NOT TOUCH THY FRESH PAINT JOB TILL A FORT NIGHT. > > THOU SHALT NOT INHALE DUST AND SPRY PARTICLES. > > THOU SHALT NOT USE A DUST MASK, BEHOLD THY RESPIRATOR. > > THOU SHALT NOT ALLOW SPRAY PARTICLES ON THY SKIN. > > THOU SHALT NOT FORGET EYE PROTECTION. > > THOU SHALT NOT HAVE A UNCLEAN WORK AREA. > > THOU SHALT NOT WORK IN AN UNVENTILATED AREA. > > THOU SHALT NOT > > > > Larry A Capps > KR Newsletter CD > Naperville, IL > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > This is mainly for you new guys > who are reading as much as you > can about finishing a composite airplane. > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 23:23:53 -0500 From: "Steve and Lori McGee" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>Ordering plans - kit Message-ID: <001d01c3991d$77b02640$0302a8c0@lori8v5h2xi9m3> References: <004b01c398f8$8c8b0be0$0302a8c0@lori8v5h2xi9m3><005a01c398f9$a8ca1340$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com><005501c398fd$b8db1820$0302a8c0@lori8v5h2xi9m3> <000701c3990a$830e9700$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 9 I have a birthday party for a sister this weekend - maybe the following? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Jones" To: "KR builders and pilots" Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 9:08 PM Subject: Re: KR>Ordering plans - kit > I would be more than happy to have you visit. When would you like to > come? > > Mark Jones (N886MJ) > Wales, WI USA > E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com > Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at > http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve and Lori McGee" > To: "KR builders and pilots" > Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 7:36 PM > Subject: Re: KR>Ordering plans - kit > > > > Thank you - guess I will have to wait or get a phone number. > > > > Can we set up a time when I can see your plane? > > > > Steve > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Mark Jones" > > To: "KR builders and pilots" > > Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 7:07 PM > > Subject: Re: KR>Ordering plans - kit > > > > > > > Hi Steve, > > > I am 25 miles west of Milwaukee off I-94. The Rand website is > > > www.fly-kr.com however I too noticed earlier today this site was > > > not working. > > > > > > Mark Jones (N886MJ) > > > Wales, WI USA > > > E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com > > > Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at > > > http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Steve and Lori McGee" > > > To: > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 6:59 PM > > > Subject: KR>Ordering plans - kit > > > > > > > > > Can someone point me to a website or phone # to get the current > > > list and > > > prices for plans, etc.. I have tried the URL in some web pages > > > and they > > > keep coming up "not found". I am ready to grow my wings and am about > > 100% > > > set on the KR2S. I would also like to see some KR2s if there are > > > any in > > my > > > area. (Central Wisc.) Any help would be appreciated. Thanks! > > > > > > Steve McGee _______________________________________________ > > > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 22:57:22 -0400 From: "cgardn628" To: "Brian Kraut" , "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>Re: rough engine. Message-ID: <004b01c39911$61da8330$6501a8c0@mdgwd52jlrmc3l> References: <10718589.1066775670893.JavaMail.root@grover.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 10 Brian, I have the engine and carb setup as you describe, but without any problems. I was about to suggest you install one of the very inexpensive digital temperature sensors in your carb air box , ahead of the carb, as I have. They are cheap ( $10-15 ) and the remote sensor can be riveted to the box floor for security.( picture on request) One strange effect that I have noticed with this sensor installed as mentioned , is that when carb heat is applied partially , is that the temperature in the box goes DOWN initially , not up as expected, due I suspect , to a venturi effect , past the flapper valve. Again , my set up is almost identical to yours ( minus the K&N filter , which I just bought , and was planning to install.). Currently , I have a lawnmower type , flat paper , filter. Not sure if this info helps but for what its worth I think the temp sensor is a good idea and may help you understand what is happening better. Regards Chris Gardiner C-GKRZ 2180VW GPAC , Zenith 1821 carb ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Kraut" To: "Harold Woods" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 6:34 PM Subject: KR>Re: rough engine. > > First of all, thank to everyone that has offered suggestions. > > > > A lot of people have remarked that it may be carb ice. I don't think > it is because I get an RPM increase even sittting on the ground at > full throttle when I pull the carb heat half on. This is in Florida > in 85 degree temperatures and relatively low humidity for this area. > The engine also immediately picks up RPM when the heat is pulled and > immediately looses it when it is pushed back in. > > > > Now maybe there is some problem with this carb not atomizing the fuel > well unless it is heated a little. If that is the case I would > suspect that someone else would have seen this problem in the past. > > > > I do plan on ordering an EGT to be sure the mixture is correct and see > if it changes when the carb heat is pulled. I will probably also > order a mixture indicator from [1]http://www.halmeter.com/. This uses > an O2 sensor in the exhaust. I also will be adding a MAP gauge and > may even try a temporary Radio Shack temp probe in the carb while on > the ground to see what kind of temps I have. > -----Original Message----- > From: Harold Woods > Sent: Oct 21, 2003 4:31 PM > To: Brian Kraut > Subject: rough engine. > > Hi Brian > > Sounds to me like a classic case of carb ice. > > It may be Florida and 85F on the ground which gives you a high > humidity. Go up to 8500 feet and the temperature is much lower but the > air still has the same weight of water vapour in it. As it is pulled > through the carb the temperature falls further, the water condences > and freezes. You get carb ice. > > Add enough hot air to melt it and keep it from reforming, adjust the > mixture to suit and you have solved the problem. > > Regards > > Harold Woods > > Orillia,ON.Can. > > [2]haroldwoods@rogers.com > > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system ([3]http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.522 / Virus Database: 320 - Release Date: 9/29/2003 > > References > > 1. http://www.halmeter.com/ > 2. mailto:haroldwoods@rogers.com > 3. http://www.grisoft.com/ > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 23:12:39 -0400 From: "cgardn628" To: , "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>EGT scale Message-ID: <005501c39913$842aed60$6501a8c0@mdgwd52jlrmc3l> References: <3F97432B.8020703@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 11 Biran, your EGT readings will be greatly influenced by the position of the EGT probe in the exhaust stack relative to the cylinder head, making almost all comparisons to other people's temp's close to meaningless. Tony Bingelis books recommend to place it within 2 inches of the cyl head exhaust port. Not knowing this, I first started with the probe several inches from the head , and got very inconsistent readings . My probe is now installed approx. 2 inches from the #4 exhaust port ( left ,rear cyl) . I get consistent readings of almost 1500 deg on takeoff and climb . Cruise after several minutes rarely drops below 1350 deg. Also, mixture adjustment doesn't seem to have much affect on my Zenith 1821. My EGT gauge is an ACS Micro2000 series . This used to worry me until talking to Steve Bennett , who advised not to be overly concerned ? Possibly the gauge calibration is inaccurate ? After 105 hours of flying , I haven't had any major issues with these temps. Regards Chris Gardiner ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Kraut" To: "KRNET" Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 10:55 PM Subject: KR>EGT scale > I am having Westach make me a custom quad gauge with an EGT, MAP, temp, > and mixture indication (enough guessing what is going on with my > engine). The mixture uses an exhaust oxygen sensor like the Avmix > aviation units and the units that are sold for race cars. I will > install a switch to give me either carb air temp or outside air temp on > the temp position. Since they are doing a custom gauge with a custom > face I have my choice of range on the EGT. The Great Plains manual says > that EGT is normally 1,150 degrees and red line is 1,500 degrees. I was > planning on having the range scale from 700-1,500 degrees. Can someone > with an EGT on a VW tell me what the lowest EGT you normally see is. I > would like to have them make the instrument with the bottom of the scale > to be at the lowest normal EGT that I will see so I will have the > maximum swing on the needle. > > By the way, I have said before that there are some great people at > Westach. They were extreemely helpful when I had some problems with a > fuel sender and have been great with this gauge also. I always knew > that they could do the quads with different arrangements than their > standard instruments, but I never realized that they will do custom > range scales, and indications that they don't advertize like the mixture > indication and MAP. The price for the custom instrument is also only > slightly higher than their standard quads. I highly recomend talking to > them if anyone needs something unusual, not to mention that their > standard instruments are great also. > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 17:00:03 +1000 From: "Phillip Matheson" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>KR2SS Photo.s Message-ID: <009f01c39935$0972c9e0$8397dccb@StationW2k04> References: <009301c39763$25a78d40$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 12 I have sent the KR2SS photo,s to Mark Jones( Thanks Mark) He will get them on the web when he can. I hope you enjoy them, It is a beautiful KR. Phillip Matheson matheson@dodo.com.ao Australia VH PKR See our engines and kits at. http://www.vw-engines.com/ http://www.homebuilt-aviation.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Jones" To: "KR Net" Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 9:37 AM Subject: KR>(no subject) Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html _______________________________________________ see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 03:46:26 EDT From: Kr2sN506KR@aol.com To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR>Aft Otbd Wing Spars? Message-ID: <15e.26cb56e3.2cc8e152@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 13 Any one else notice that their aft spar material was 7/8 x 7/8 and not 7/8 x 15/16? Chris Theroux Gilbert, AZ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 06:24:21 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" To: Subject: Re: KR>Newbie Questions Message-ID: <3F97AC55.00002B.02772@Computer> References: <20031023035325.73489.qmail@web9402.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 14 Rick,=0D =0D I would cut the forward in half, attach a piece of 1/4" Lastofoam to the underside, slice a piece of regular foam that can be easily sanded, to th= e shape of the gap. Fill that area with that foam and sand smooth. Put bi= d on the under and top side.=0D =0D On the Turtle deck, you probably have more issues than just the fact that your plane has been widened. You will want to first consider what you wa= nt the shape behind your head, to be like. Make a bow into that shape. Som= e people make the bows from strips of wood. I have found that the easiest = to make is using foam and glass. Once you have the bow in place, cut the li= p off the front of the turtle deck, and spread it over the foam. You can attach it with flox and clamps. Now you will fill the sides with sheets = of foam, sort of like filling the gap on the forward deck. This gives you a nice smooth finish on the top.=0D =0D See: http://kr-builder.org/TurtleDeck/index.html=0D =0D There are not very many pictures, this was pre digital camera. I know th= ere are more somewhere, but cannot find them.=0D =0D Just when you think you are not making any progress, you look back on pictures like this and realize how much progress has been made. Thanks f= or asking the question. =0D =0D N64KR=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering=0D =0D See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic=0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =0D -------Original Message-------=0D =0D From: KR builders and pilots=0D Date: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 11:53:46 PM=0D To: krnet@mylist.net=0D Subject: Re: KR>Newbie Questions=0D =0D Thank you, Mark.=0D =0D It also comes with the premolded turtledeck and=0D forward deck. Would I just cut these in half and fill=0D them with BID -- will that be strong enough?=0D =0D Rick=0D =0D --- Mark Langford wrote:=0D > > 3. Given the widened fuse, how difficult would it=0D > be=0D > > to fit a preformed canopy and cowling (not=0D > included in=0D > > the package).=0D >=0D > RR will be quick to tell you that their canopy will=0D > not fit a KR2 or S=0D > that's been widened more than 1.5". I doubt that=0D > the firewall is widened=0D > 4", but if it is, their cowling certainly won't fit=0D > either. The Dragonfly=0D > will fit perfectly though, as detailed at=0D > http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/kcf.html .=0D >=0D > Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL=0D > N56ML "at" hiwaay.net=0D > see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford=0D >=0D >=0D >=0D > _______________________________________________=0D > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html=0D =0D __________________________________=0D Do you Yahoo!?=0D The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search=0D http://shopping.yahoo.com=0D =0D _______________________________________________=0D see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html=0D =2EFrom DanRH@alltel.net Thu Oct 23 03:23:14 2003 Received: from mta01.alltel.net ([166.102.165.143] helo=mta01-srv.alltel.net) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1ACccc-000I3G-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 03:23:14 -0700 Received: from Computer ([151.213.92.252]) by mta01-srv.alltel.net with SMTP id <20031023102724.RLNH4162.mta01-srv.alltel.net@Computer> for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 05:27:24 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <3F97AD10.00002D.02772@Computer> Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 06:27:28 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) X-Mailer: IncrediMail 2001 (2001155.2001155) From: "Dan Heath" References: <20031023034845.73211.qmail@web9402.mail.yahoo.com> X-FID: FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 X-FVER: X-CNT: ; X-Priority: 3 To: Subject: Re: KR>VW, Corvair or 0200? Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1b3 X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KR builders and pilots List-Id: KR builders and pilots List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: RE: 2180 -- would that be enough for two people=0D weighing around 150 lbs each?=0D =0D =0D Yes, but it will be slow. Just get your CG right by putting the engine i= n the right place. Jim Faughn talks a lot about this and it is critical to having a good flying plane. =0D =0D N64KR=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering=0D =0D See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic=0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =20From n56ml@hiwaay.net Thu Oct 23 05:09:17 2003 Received: from ant.hiwaay.net ([216.180.54.10] helo=mail.hiwaay.net) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1ACeHF-000Mm7-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 05:09:17 -0700 Received: from mlangford2 (nokia-1.tbe.com [192.88.94.254]) by mail.hiwaay.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9NCDRGb653827 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 07:13:27 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <001d01c3995f$6e5ae7a0$5e0ca58c@tbe.com> From: "Mark Langford" To: "KR builders and pilots" References: <20031023035325.73489.qmail@web9402.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: KR>Newbie Questions Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 07:16:04 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KR builders and pilots List-Id: KR builders and pilots List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: Rick wrote: > It also comes with the premolded turtledeck and > forward deck. Would I just cut these in half and fill > them with BID -- will that be strong enough? Yep, a splice is about all you can do, unless you can gradually bend them into shape to fit your fuselage. Having never owned any preformed parts, I'm clueless, but the older (before prepreg) KR2 parts are probably floppy enough to make fit without splicing, or maybe you can get away with splicing under the edges as Dan mentioned, to get the thing back to "regular" height, whatever that is. A glass/foam sandwich with two layers of glass overlapping the deck should be sufficient. Don't forget that you can also heat the parts up and REform them to some degree with one of those "jet" kerosene heaters or something similar. Just don't burn the house down while you're at it... Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL N56ML at hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 07:31:23 -0500 From: "Sylvester Stys" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>Ordering plans - kit Message-ID: <006701c39961$92dde940$60ca540c@yourwg5n33dutv> References: <004b01c398f8$8c8b0be0$0302a8c0@lori8v5h2xi9m3> <005a01c398f9$a8ca1340$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 15 Steve, I have a KR2 project in my hangar that is 95% done and 95% to go. You are welcome to check it out. I am available most afternoons. Location is ETB (West Bend). Syl ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Jones" To: "KR builders and pilots" Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 7:07 PM Subject: Re: KR>Ordering plans - kit > Hi Steve, > I am 25 miles west of Milwaukee off I-94. The Rand website is > www.fly-kr.com however I too noticed earlier today this site was not > working. > > Mark Jones (N886MJ) > Wales, WI USA > E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com > Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at > http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve and Lori McGee" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 6:59 PM > Subject: KR>Ordering plans - kit > > > Can someone point me to a website or phone # to get the current list and > prices for plans, etc.. I have tried the URL in some web pages and they > keep coming up "not found". I am ready to grow my wings and am about 100% > set on the KR2S. I would also like to see some KR2s if there are any in my > area. (Central Wisc.) Any help would be appreciated. Thanks! > > Steve McGee > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 07:06:45 -0700 From: "Wayne Israelsen" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>VW Engine Rockers Message-ID: <001101c3996e$e4d32140$6701a8c0@HISPEEDWIRELESS.COM> References: <2b.4a14c4f1.2cc8808f@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 16 Mr Hoover Maybe christmas could be early this year. I just replaced my digital camera and now have an Olymus D-510 just sitting here with nothing to do. I live in temecula and work all over North County. The way I figure, your free advice has saved me thousands over five years so if it helps get more of your advise on line I would be happy to put it to good use in your hands. Please contact me @ wayne@hispeedwireless.com if you are interseted. Thanks Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 5:53 PM Subject: Re: KR>VW Engine Rockers > In a message dated 10/22/03 3:12:57 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > wayne@hispeedwireless.com writes: > > > Hey all this is why I used to rebuild my VW in my sandrail every year and > > now since being converted to the R.S Hoover way of Do it right and maintain > > it. I have not needed an overhaul since 97. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Now my hat don't fit :-) > > ------------------------------------ > > Actually, it isn't too difficult to get the VW valve train geometry dead-on, > it just takes a bit of time. I'm told Santa is bringing me a digital camera > this Christmas so I'll be able to post some pictures of the tools I've made for > setting up valve train geometry. 'VW Trends' published a rather lengthy > article titled 'Dialing in Your Cam' which describes the first stage of the > process. Once you've got the cam dialed in and have measured the actual lift at the > cam the remaining pieces of the puzzle fall into place. > > (If you're into engines there's a lot more poop about PORSCHE valve train > geometry than you'll ever find for the VW. You CAN set-up a VW properly... but > the factory never did. Close enough was good enough.) > > The whole idea behind setting up the valve train geometry is to find the > point of minimum loss in the process of turning an upward push, delivered at an > angle of about three degrees, into a downward shove, delivered at an angle of > about nine and a half. The two basic principles involved are the fact that the > push-rod and valve can only move in a linear fashion (or nearly so) while the > rocker arm can only move through an arc, with the input arc typically having a > shorter radius than the output (that is, the rocker ratio is 1.1 to 1, 1.25 > to 1 and so forth. Stock is 1.1, after-market rockers go up to 1.45 and just > to make things interesting, sometimes the rockers actually come pretty close to > those numbers :-) (Nowadays, you gotta check EVERYTHING.) > > The tricky bit is HOW you go about matching the mid-point of the linear push > (or shove) to the tangental mid-point of the arc. > > Think about it for a minute. Push the DOOR open with a broom stick... Broom > stick travels pretty much in a straight line but the door has to swing thru > an arc. No matter WHAT YOU DO the path traveled by the broomstick will always > be LESS than the arc traveled by the door. That is, the broom stick travels > on the chord of the arc whereas the door follows the radius of the arc. > > Bottom line, there's always some loss. Your job is to arrange things so as > to give the LEAST loss, which also translates as the MOST motion at the valve. > So you find out how much the cam pushes the follower and the follower pushes > the push-rod and the rocker swings through an arc... and you raise the rocker > up or lower it down so that the mid-point of its arc perfectly matches the > mid-point of the linear travel of the valve and you adjust the length of your > valve stems (if needed) and the length of your push-rod (ALWAYS needed) and then > you run the engine on the test stand for five or six hours and discover > everything has changed anyway... :-) > > Actually, you crank in a bit of Texas Windage when you do the set-up, so that > as the engine wears in and you come back and re-torque the heads and tweak > the valves, the anticipated amount of wear will have caused the tangental point > to be within a gnat's ass of dead on, or so close that it's well within the > range of your adjusting screw. (Gnat's ass is a technical term meaning > five-tenthousandths of an inch if the wind is from a south and its a Tuesday. Work > with me here; you'll pick it up as we go along.) > > I suppose that's really the tricky part, knowing the amount you have to stay > on the high side of spec so that as the engine wears in it runs sweet instead > of sour. A lot of that part of valve train geometry won't make a lot of sense > because nowadays, with "Volkswagen" parts coming from all over the world, > from factories Volkswagen never heard of and without any quality control to speak > of, the initial wear-in coefficient is based on guesses and good intentions. > > But ANY attention you pay to your valve train geometry will usually be > rewarded with SOME improvement in your volumetric efficiency. On the other hand, > I've seen lots of engines that gave away as much as 25% of their lift at the > valve from being thrown together right out of the box. > > The engine will tell you. Trouble is, most folks don't understand what it > sez. > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > > Didja see how Mike did the set-up on his Corvair? That photo of the > roller-rocker just kissing the valve stem? For VW's I made a jig so I can set a valve > at its computed half-height. Then I paint the stem with Dykem and have a > scriber on the rocker arm so that when it's set at the proper height it draws a > line across across the face of the valve stem. An optical comparitor shows me > how close I've come to the center of the valve stem for that particular > setting. > > That probably sounds sorta gim-crack but I haven't found any better way of > doing it. Actually, it's not too bad of a method for a guys like me with greasy > fingernails instead of engineering degrees because I'm not actually MEASURING > anything in quantified terms, I'm simply COMPARING things, peering through a > glass to see if the line is too high, too low or just right. > > Raising the pivot point of the rocker will cause the line to fall a little > lower, lowering the tower will raise it. Once you get it dead on you go back > and re-run the numbers to see if the input is close enough to tangental. If > not, you can use a different valve or a different tower. The height of the tower > and the length of the valve stem don't really matter (within reason) so long > as the mid-points of the linear travel exactly match the tangental points on > the arcs. And keep in mind, you've got four rockers on the same shaft; you're > seeking HARMONY rather than an identical numerical value. > > Then it hums. 'Free' horsepower. More power for the same fuel. Wears at a > slower rate. Runs a lot smoother becuase the valve train stresses are more > evenly distributed... or something. It also causes you to grow long, blond > Surfer God hair allll over your bod-dee. > > Actually, I was just kidding about that last part. (As he tosses his long, > blond, Surfer God hair back from his noble sunburnt brow. Being a native > Californian isn't as easy as it looks.) > > Engineering types get off on what happens when you DON'T pay attention to the > valve train geometry, as in calculating how fast the engine will trash > itself, or how low the efficiency can fall before EPA will sue your ass back into > the Stone Age. The Stone Age is where you'll find all those VW 'experts' who > never mention valves at all, telling the Yuppies, "This engine will RUST OUT > before it WEARS OUT." > > Uh, right, John. > > -R.S.Hoover > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 197, Issue 1 *************************************