From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net on behalf of krnet-request@mylist.net Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 9:04 AM To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 198, Issue 1 Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. WAF's again (Dene Collett (SA)) 2. Re: KR2SS Photo.s (Mark Jones) 3. advice (Dean Cooper) 4. advice (Larry A Capps) 5. Re: VW, Corvair or 0200? / VW (Phillip Matheson) 6. Re: KR2SS Photo.s (Jack Cooper) 7. Re: advice (gerald locker) 8. Re: KR2SS Photo.s (Phil Matheson) 9. Re: advice (Dean Cooper) 10. Re: advice (Dan Heath) 11. advice (larry flesner) 12. Re: advice (Ray Fuenzalida) 13. Re: advice 14. Advice; single or two place (Ron Freiberger) 15. Re: advice (roger mitchell) 16. Re: More on waf ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 17:28:25 +0200 From: "Dene Collett \(SA\)" To: "krnet" Subject: KR>WAF's again Message-ID: <000201c39998$a241b600$37e5fea9@telkomsa127179> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 1 Hi guys I am busy puting my wing spars together and was wondering the following: 1: How precise should the inner wing attach fittings fit between the outer waf's, I know a slide fit is desisable but this is wood we are dealing with and things might not be as precise as if the spars were milled from steel.Just how much tolerance is acceptable? How would a slightly out of spec tolerance be rectified........shims, washers? 2:I originally ordered my ply from a local South African distributor as 2.5mm birch which was imported from Finland if my memory serves me correcty.I need one more sheet to complete my wing spars and on enquiring today I was informed that only 2.0mm ply is available. Is it possible that the ply I originally bought is the proper 3/32" (2.381mm) and that which I was quoted on today is the same stuff just rounded off to the nearest mm by a stupid salesman who doesn't know any better.What I am asking is what are the standard thicknesses of aircraft ply produced. I have to have an answer tomorrow because my order is being piggybacked with another order by another builder starting a big motorglider project. 3:If this stuff really is 2.0mm, will it make any significant difference seeing that my spars are webbed on both sides as apposed to the KR2 which is webbed on one side only. I am also using the 18% airfoil at the root tapering to the 15% at the tip.It should be noted that both centre spars will be webbed with the original "2.5mm" ply. Pease excuse the long winded post, it is as short as I could make it. Cheers Dene Collett South Africa mailto: dene.collett@telkomsa.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 20:48:36 -0500 From: "Mark Jones" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>KR2SS Photo.s Message-ID: <004f01c399d0$f132ee40$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> References: <009301c39763$25a78d40$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> <009f01c39935$0972c9e0$8397dccb@StationW2k04> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 2 Here is the link to the KR2SS photos. http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/KR2SS.html Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Phillip Matheson" To: "KR builders and pilots" Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 2:00 AM Subject: Re: KR>KR2SS Photo.s > I have sent the KR2SS photo,s to Mark Jones( Thanks Mark) He will get > them on the web when he can. I hope you enjoy them, It is a beautiful > KR. > > > > Phillip Matheson > matheson@dodo.com.ao > Australia > VH PKR > See our engines and kits at. > http://www.vw-engines.com/ > http://www.homebuilt-aviation.com/ > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark Jones" > To: "KR Net" > Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 9:37 AM > Subject: KR>(no subject) > > > > > Mark Jones (N886MJ) > Wales, WI USA > E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com > Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at > http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 22:01:51 -0400 From: "Dean Cooper" To: "KR Net" Subject: KR>advice Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 3 Netters, I'm looking for some advice. I am 6' and weigh about 238 lbs. I will = get down to about 210-220 lbs before my plane is finished and probably = sooner if I ever want a chance to fly in one sooner. I am building a = stock KR2 and have ordered tri-gear. - What structural modifications should I consider (ie, larger = stabilizers, etc) to ensure this is a 2 place aircraft for my size? = Obviously with a smaller passenger... - Should I heavily consider one engine over another? - Any other ideas? You can email me off net at dean_cooper@msn.com. Thanks. Dean Cooper Jacksonville, FL See my KR project at: www.geocities.com/djramccoop1/KR2.htmlFrom rstone4@hot.rr.com Thu Oct 23 20:00:40 2003 Received: from ms-smtp-04.texas.rr.com ([24.93.36.232]) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1ACsBs-0009k2-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 20:00:40 -0700 Received: from pavilion (cs2424233-186.hot.rr.com [24.242.33.186]) by ms-smtp-04.texas.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.2) with SMTP id h9O34IdJ014957 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 22:04:19 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <000901c399db$c1aaf540$ba21f218@hot.rr.com> From: "Bob Stone" To: "KR builders and pilots" References: <009301c39763$25a78d40$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> <009f01c39935$0972c9e0$8397dccb@StationW2k04> <004f01c399d0$f132ee40$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> Subject: Re: KR>KR2SS Photo.s Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 22:06:01 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KR builders and pilots List-Id: KR builders and pilots List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: Mark, I have two questions concerning the KR2SS. Does the two SS's mean it's longers than a KR-2S. Is the owner trying to sell it and if so, how much is he asking. Bob Stone, Harker Heights, TX rstone4@hot.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Jones" To: "KR builders and pilots" Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 8:48 PM Subject: Re: KR>KR2SS Photo.s > Here is the link to the KR2SS photos. > http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/KR2SS.html > > Mark Jones (N886MJ) > Wales, WI USA > E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com > Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at > http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Phillip Matheson" > To: "KR builders and pilots" > Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 2:00 AM > Subject: Re: KR>KR2SS Photo.s > > > > I have sent the KR2SS photo,s to Mark Jones( Thanks Mark) He will > > get them > > on the web when he can. > > I hope you enjoy them, It is a beautiful KR. > > > > > > > > Phillip Matheson > > matheson@dodo.com.ao > > Australia > > VH PKR > > See our engines and kits at. > > http://www.vw-engines.com/ http://www.homebuilt-aviation.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Mark Jones" > > To: "KR Net" > > Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 9:37 AM > > Subject: KR>(no subject) > > > > > > > > > > Mark Jones (N886MJ) > > Wales, WI USA > > E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com > > Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at > > http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html > > > > _______________________________________________ > > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 22:17:53 -0500 From: "Larry A Capps" To: "KR Builders List \(E-mail\)" Subject: KR>advice Message-ID: <000301c399dd$69fdaac0$0200a8c0@schpankme> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 4 Loose a limb. Empty weight (*) 520 lbs. 24 gal fuel wt 144 lbs. Pilot weight 220 lbs. Baggage 12 lbs. ------------------------------------------------ 896 lbs. Gross weight 900 lbs. You may now carry a 4 lb passenger. Larry A Capps Naperville, IL *cough -----Original Message----- I'm looking for some advice. I am 6' and weigh about 238 lbs. I am building a stock KR2 and have ordered tri-gear. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 13:28:26 +1000 From: "Phillip Matheson" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>VW, Corvair or 0200? / VW Message-ID: <00e101c399de$e3a92b50$1097dccb@StationW2k04> References: <20031023034845.73211.qmail@web9402.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 5 Rick, Take the time to look at some great VW engines as well. http://www.vw-engines.com/ May as well check out all the available. engines Phillip Matheson matheson@dodo.com.ao Australia VH PKR See our engines and kits at. http://www.vw-engines.com/ http://www.homebuilt-aviation.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 23:33:38 -0400 From: "Jack Cooper" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>KR2SS Photo.s Message-ID: <410-220031052433338580@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 6 Beautiful KR Robert J. (Jack) Cooper kr2cooper@earthlink.net http://www.jackandsandycooper.com/kr2.html Why Wait? Move to EarthLink. > [Original Message] > From: Mark Jones > To: KR builders and pilots > Date: 10/23/03 9:47:30 PM > Subject: Re: KR>KR2SS Photo.s > > Here is the link to the KR2SS photos. > http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/KR2SS.html > > Mark Jones (N886MJ) > Wales, WI USA > E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com > Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at > http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Phillip Matheson" > To: "KR builders and pilots" > Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 2:00 AM > Subject: Re: KR>KR2SS Photo.s > > > > I have sent the KR2SS photo,s to Mark Jones( Thanks Mark) He will get them > > on the web when he can. > > I hope you enjoy them, It is a beautiful KR. > > > > > > > > Phillip Matheson > > matheson@dodo.com.ao > > Australia > > VH PKR > > See our engines and kits at. > > http://www.vw-engines.com/ > > http://www.homebuilt-aviation.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Mark Jones" > > To: "KR Net" > > Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 9:37 AM > > Subject: KR>(no subject) > > > > > > > > > > Mark Jones (N886MJ) > > Wales, WI USA > > E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com > > Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at > > http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html > > > > _______________________________________________ > > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 23:34:39 -0700 (PDT) From: gerald locker To: KR builders and pilots Subject: Re: KR>advice Message-ID: <20031024063440.45269.qmail@web20506.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 7 --- Dean Cooper wrote: > Netters, > > I'm looking for some advice. I am 6' and weigh > about 238 lbs. I will get down to about 210-220 lbs > before my plane is finished and probably sooner if I > ever want a chance to fly in one sooner. I am > building a stock KR2 and have ordered tri-gear. > > - What structural modifications should I consider > (ie, larger stabilizers, etc) to ensure this is a 2 > place aircraft for my size? Obviously with a > smaller passenger... > - Should I heavily consider one engine over another? > - Any other ideas? > > You can email me off net at dean_cooper@msn.com. > Thanks. > > Dean Cooper > Jacksonville, FL > See my KR project a Dear Dean, I am not rying to be a smart ass but I do have some advice. I weighed 213 lbs in January of 2002. In May I was down to 190 and have retained that weight for over a year and a half. I went on the Atkins diet and I have been on about everyone they ever had. It is the only one that did exactly what the book said it would do. I eat fat, protien, cream, butter, meats, fish, pork, chicken...little to none carbohydrates. Pw\eople laughed at Dr. Atkins for years and called him crazy...now that he has died, they are finally admitting that he was on to something. Your weight will seriously affect just who you can take with you on the flight, what type of engine are you using, and how you laid out your CG. It would be better to build it and not worry about who you can take up with you unless you go to a different plane. Respectfully, Gerald Locker brigadier192003@yahoo.com > www.geocities.com/djramccoop1/KR2.html_______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 19:48:21 +1000 From: "Phil Matheson" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>KR2SS Photo.s Message-ID: <001401c39a14$08f39370$2396dccb@Office> References: <009301c39763$25a78d40$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com><009f01c39935$0972c9e0$8397dccb@StationW2k04><004f01c399d0$f132ee40$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> <000901c399db$c1aaf540$ba21f218@hot.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 8 Bob Wrote I have two questions concerning the KR2SS. Does the two SS's mean it's longers than a KR-2S. Is the owner trying to sell it and if so, how much is he asking. Bob Stone, Harker Heights, TX ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ Bob. No!!! NOT for sale as yet. The owner is a friend of mine in Australia. I understand it is stretched behind the spars as well as in front and a bit wider. and longer in the engine mount and nose I'll try and check up on more details Phil Matheson matheson@dodo.com.au VH-PKR ( reserved) 61 3 58833588 See our VW Engines and Home built web page at http://www.vw-engines.com/ www.homebuilt-aviation.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 06:49:58 -0400 From: "Dean Cooper" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>advice Message-ID: References: <000301c399dd$69fdaac0$0200a8c0@schpankme> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 9 Great. So, what you're telling me is this plane has a 224 lb capacity = for the pilot and passenger.... If that's the case, exactly how is = anyone flying this as a 2 place A/C (other than bringing their dog along = for the ride)? I guess if I want a two place A/C, I need to set this = one out on the curb on trash day and start over.... Dean Cooper Jacksonville, FL See my KR project at: www.geocities.com/djramccoop1/KR2.html ----- Original Message -----=20 Loose a limb. Empty weight (*) 520 lbs. 24 gal fuel wt 144 lbs. Pilot weight 220 lbs. Baggage 12 lbs. ------------------------------------------------ 896 lbs.=20 Gross weight 900 lbs. You may now carry a 4 lb passenger. Larry A Capps Naperville, IL *cough -----Original Message----- I'm looking for some advice. =20 I am 6' and weigh about 238 lbs. I am building a stock KR2=20 and have ordered tri-gear. _______________________________________________ see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 07:05:35 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" To: Subject: Re: KR>advice Message-ID: <3F99077F.000001.03504@Computer> References: Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 10 Dean,=0D =0D Don't panic, you need HP and room with the right CG. Get your weight to = 190 to 200 and you can build a plane to handle 2 people. I remember Marty Roberts leaving Covington TN, back when he had more weight on him and he = had a passenger in that plane who was larger than him. They were packed in l= ike =2E.. well packed. That plane took off like it had only a 150 pound pilo= t in it. =0D =0D =0D =0D N64KR=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering=0D =0D See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic=0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =0D -------Original Message-------=0D =0D From: KR builders and pilots=0D Date: Friday, October 24, 2003 6:48:28 AM=0D To: KR builders and pilots=0D Subject: Re: KR>advice=0D =0D Great. So, what you're telling me is this plane has a 224 lb capacity for the pilot and passenger.... If that's the case, exactly how is anyone fly= ing this as a 2 place A/C (other than bringing their dog along for the ride)?= I guess if I want a two place A/C, I need to set this one out on the curb o= n trash day and start over....=0D =0D Dean Cooper=0D Jacksonville, FL=0D See my KR project at: www.geocities.com/djramccoop1/KR2.html=0D ----- Original Message -----=0D =0D =0D Loose a limb.=0D =0D Empty weight (*) 520 lbs.=0D 24 gal fuel wt 144 lbs.=0D Pilot weight 220 lbs.=0D Baggage 12 lbs.=0D ------------------------------------------------=0D 896 lbs.=0D =0D Gross weight 900 lbs.=0D =0D You may now carry a 4 lb passenger.=0D =0D =0D Larry A Capps=0D Naperville, IL=0D =0D =0D *cough=0D =0D =0D =0D -----Original Message-----=0D =0D I'm looking for some advice.=0D I am 6' and weigh about 238 lbs.=0D I am building a stock KR2=0D and have ordered tri-gear.=0D =0D _______________________________________________=0D see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html=0D _______________________________________________=0D see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html=0D =2EFrom flykr2s@wi.rr.com Fri Oct 24 04:18:25 2003 Received: from ms-smtp-01.rdc-kc.rr.com ([24.94.166.115]) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1ACzxZ-000HG3-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 04:18:25 -0700 Received: from mark (CPE-65-31-89-55.wi.rr.com [65.31.89.55]) by ms-smtp-01.rdc-kc.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id h9OBMXLW018006 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 06:22:36 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <000e01c39a21$47a1f320$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> From: "Mark Jones" To: "KR builders and pilots" References: <009301c39763$25a78d40$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> <009f01c39935$0972c9e0$8397dccb@StationW2k04> <004f01c399d0$f132ee40$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> <000901c399db$c1aaf540$ba21f218@hot.rr.com> Subject: Re: KR>KR2SS Photo.s Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 06:23:11 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KR builders and pilots List-Id: KR builders and pilots List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: I do not know anything about this plane. Phil Matheson...since you sent me the photos, can you give everyone some info on the KR2SS. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Stone" To: "KR builders and pilots" Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 10:06 PM Subject: Re: KR>KR2SS Photo.s > Mark, > I have two questions concerning the KR2SS. Does the two SS's mean it's > longers than a KR-2S. Is the owner trying to sell it and if so, how much is > he asking. > > Bob Stone, Harker Heights, TX > rstone4@hot.rr.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark Jones" > To: "KR builders and pilots" > Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 8:48 PM > Subject: Re: KR>KR2SS Photo.s > > > > Here is the link to the KR2SS photos. > > http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/KR2SS.html > > > > Mark Jones (N886MJ) > > Wales, WI USA > > E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com > > Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at > > http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Phillip Matheson" > > To: "KR builders and pilots" > > Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 2:00 AM > > Subject: Re: KR>KR2SS Photo.s > > > > > > > I have sent the KR2SS photo,s to Mark Jones( Thanks Mark) He will get > them > > > on the web when he can. > > > I hope you enjoy them, It is a beautiful KR. > > > > > > > > > > > > Phillip Matheson > > > matheson@dodo.com.ao > > > Australia > > > VH PKR > > > See our engines and kits at. > > > http://www.vw-engines.com/ > > > http://www.homebuilt-aviation.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Mark Jones" > > > To: "KR Net" > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 9:37 AM > > > Subject: KR>(no subject) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mark Jones (N886MJ) > > > Wales, WI USA > > > E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com > > > Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at > > > http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 08:23:59 -0500 From: larry flesner To: KR builders and pilots Subject: KR>advice Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031024082359.008165b0@pop.midwest.net> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 11 >I'm looking for some advice. I am 6' and weigh about 238 lbs. I will get down to about 210-220 lbs before my plane is finished and probably sooner if I ever want a chance to fly in one sooner. I am building a stock KR2 and have ordered tri-gear. > >- What structural modifications should I consider (ie, larger stabilizers, etc) to ensure this is a 2 place aircraft for my size? Obviously with a smaller passenger... +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ I agree with Dan, don't panic. Your KR will fly at weights above 900 pounds. I'm not advising you to do this but simply stating some observations I've made over the years. I was going to e-mail you "off net" but I know there are those that disagree with me and this will give you a chance to hear both sides and make your own decisions. - The CG HAS TO BE RIGHT at any weight. - One well known KR has an empty weight of 780 lbs. The pilot weighs at least 180, 60 pounds of fuel and an average size passanger would put it at nearly 1200 pounds. It takes A LOT OF POWER to fly a KR at those weights and this aircraft has a hopped up 0-200. CAUTION: being possible doesn't necessarily make it right. Carefully consider any deviation from the plans. What would I do at your state of building? - Live with the fact that the fuselage will be narrow and you will have to limit the "beam" of your passangers. If possible, adjust seating so passanger can place their left arm on the seat back for extended periods. This will help you live with the limited shoulder room. - You didn't say which tri-gear you have chosen. Certainly dump what you have and consider the Diehl tri-gear. - Increase the span of the horz stab by 6 inches or so per side. - Even if the canopy was not green I'd get rid of it also and go with one of the canopys (or build one) that has some vertical rise above the longerons before it arcs over to the top. - If you know you are going to fly heavy I'd stay with the "stock" wing span and not go with the longer premolded skins. Your landing and takeoff speeds will be slightly higher but the longer wings place more stress on the WAF's. Use horsepower to handle the extra weight and not more wing. - Try to keep your fuel as close to the CG envelope as possible, i.e., smaller header tank with wing tanks. That will limit you CG shift with fuel burn. -Consider an engine of at least 100 hp. Finish the airframe and then locate the engine to bring the CG to correct location and then build the cowl. With all that said, BUILD ACCORDING TO PLANS and if the airplane doesn't fit your needs, build something else. It's your decision. Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 07:04:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Ray Fuenzalida To: KR builders and pilots Subject: Re: KR>advice Message-ID: <20031024140457.12863.qmail@web42001.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031024082359.008165b0@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 12 Good luck and do what you want to do, but I also am very concerned with wieght and the CG. Therefore, I have decided to make mine a single seater. Should help all of the potential problems of being overgross. I'm right at 200 lbs. so hopefully, I'll have a speedster when its all said and done. Ray larry flesner wrote: >I'm looking for some advice. I am 6' and weigh about 238 lbs. I will get down to about 210-220 lbs before my plane is finished and probably sooner if I ever want a chance to fly in one sooner. I am building a stock KR2 and have ordered tri-gear. > >- What structural modifications should I consider (ie, larger stabilizers, etc) to ensure this is a 2 place aircraft for my size? Obviously with a smaller passenger... +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ I agree with Dan, don't panic. Your KR will fly at weights above 900 pounds. I'm not advising you to do this but simply stating some observations I've made over the years. I was going to e-mail you "off net" but I know there are those that disagree with me and this will give you a chance to hear both sides and make your own decisions. - The CG HAS TO BE RIGHT at any weight. - One well known KR has an empty weight of 780 lbs. The pilot weighs at least 180, 60 pounds of fuel and an average size passanger would put it at nearly 1200 pounds. It takes A LOT OF POWER to fly a KR at those weights and this aircraft has a hopped up 0-200. CAUTION: being possible doesn't necessarily make it right. Carefully consider any deviation from the plans. What would I do at your state of building? - Live with the fact that the fuselage will be narrow and you will have to limit the "beam" of your passangers. If possible, adjust seating so passanger can place their left arm on the seat back for extended periods. This will help you live with the limited shoulder room. - You didn't say which tri-gear you have chosen. Certainly dump what you have and consider the Diehl tri-gear. - Increase the span of the horz stab by 6 inches or so per side. - Even if the canopy was not green I'd get rid of it also and go with one of the canopys (or build one) that has some vertical rise above the longerons before it arcs over to the top. - If you know you are going to fly heavy I'd stay with the "stock" wing span and not go with the longer premolded skins. Your landing and takeoff speeds will be slightly higher but the longer wings place more stress on the WAF's. Use horsepower to handle the extra weight and not more wing. - Try to keep your fuel as close to the CG envelope as possible, i.e., smaller header tank with wing tanks. That will limit you CG shift with fuel burn. -Consider an engine of at least 100 hp. Finish the airframe and then locate the engine to bring the CG to correct location and then build the cowl. With all that said, BUILD ACCORDING TO PLANS and if the airplane doesn't fit your needs, build something else. It's your decision. Larry Flesner _______________________________________________ see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product searchFrom jfaughn@socket.net Fri Oct 24 07:08:58 2003 Received: from mo2.socket.net ([216.106.88.11]) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1AD2cc-000Il8-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 07:08:58 -0700 Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46459485FC46 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 09:13:12 -0500 (CDT) Received: from gatewaylupqvu3 (p285.stmo2.socket.net [64.85.215.31]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 1694BDD43 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 09:13:09 -0500 (CDT) From: "Jim Faughn" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: RE: KR>advice Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 09:11:19 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KR builders and pilots List-Id: KR builders and pilots List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: Dean, I am 6'+ and weigh 195 and on a diet. My plane weighs about 625 empty with a GPAS 2180 engine. I have carried a 200 pound passenger, actually several between 190 and 200 at the last gathering. My gross weight on the plane I certified at was 1120. My plane is as stock as you can get. Realities, I can fly with that much weight because my CG is forward. It is tight and I wouldn't want to fly cross country with two people of my size. I had to raise the turtle deck so the canopy would fit my body. My wife is 5' and weighs much less than me which allows us to carry baggage if we actually travel someplace. Keep up the diet idea because the plane will fly much better. Jim Faughn N891JF -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Dean Cooper Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 9:02 PM To: KR Net Subject: KR>advice Netters, I'm looking for some advice. I am 6' and weigh about 238 lbs. I will get down to about 210-220 lbs before my plane is finished and probably sooner if I ever want a chance to fly in one sooner. I am building a stock KR2 and have ordered tri-gear. - What structural modifications should I consider (ie, larger stabilizers, etc) to ensure this is a 2 place aircraft for my size? Obviously with a smaller passenger... - Should I heavily consider one engine over another? - Any other ideas? You can email me off net at dean_cooper@msn.com. Thanks. Dean Cooper Jacksonville, FL See my KR project at: www.geocities.com/djramccoop1/KR2.html______________________________________ _________ see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 09:14:10 -0500 From: DPurduski@CaldwellMfgCo.com To: KR builders and pilots Subject: Re: KR>advice Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 13 "I have decided to make mine a single seater." That is some very good advice, especially in hot-humid climates. Ray Fuenzalida com> cc: Sent by: Subject: Re: KR>advice krnet-bounces@myl ist.net 10/24/2003 09:04 AM Please respond to KR builders and pilots Good luck and do what you want to do, but I also am very concerned with wieght and the CG. Therefore, I have decided to make mine a single seater. Should help all of the potential problems of being overgross. I'm right at 200 lbs. so hopefully, I'll have a speedster when its all said and done. Ray larry flesner wrote: >I'm looking for some advice. I am 6' and weigh about 238 lbs. I will get down to about 210-220 lbs before my plane is finished and probably sooner if I ever want a chance to fly in one sooner. I am building a stock KR2 and have ordered tri-gear. > >- What structural modifications should I consider (ie, larger stabilizers, etc) to ensure this is a 2 place aircraft for my size? Obviously with a smaller passenger... +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ I agree with Dan, don't panic. Your KR will fly at weights above 900 pounds. I'm not advising you to do this but simply stating some observations I've made over the years. I was going to e-mail you "off net" but I know there are those that disagree with me and this will give you a chance to hear both sides and make your own decisions. - The CG HAS TO BE RIGHT at any weight. - One well known KR has an empty weight of 780 lbs. The pilot weighs at least 180, 60 pounds of fuel and an average size passanger would put it at nearly 1200 pounds. It takes A LOT OF POWER to fly a KR at those weights and this aircraft has a hopped up 0-200. CAUTION: being possible doesn't necessarily make it right. Carefully consider any deviation from the plans. What would I do at your state of building? - Live with the fact that the fuselage will be narrow and you will have to limit the "beam" of your passangers. If possible, adjust seating so passanger can place their left arm on the seat back for extended periods. This will help you live with the limited shoulder room. - You didn't say which tri-gear you have chosen. Certainly dump what you have and consider the Diehl tri-gear. - Increase the span of the horz stab by 6 inches or so per side. - Even if the canopy was not green I'd get rid of it also and go with one of the canopys (or build one) that has some vertical rise above the longerons before it arcs over to the top. - If you know you are going to fly heavy I'd stay with the "stock" wing span and not go with the longer premolded skins. Your landing and takeoff speeds will be slightly higher but the longer wings place more stress on the WAF's. Use horsepower to handle the extra weight and not more wing. - Try to keep your fuel as close to the CG envelope as possible, i.e., smaller header tank with wing tanks. That will limit you CG shift with fuel burn. -Consider an engine of at least 100 hp. Finish the airframe and then locate the engine to bring the CG to correct location and then build the cowl. With all that said, BUILD ACCORDING TO PLANS and if the airplane doesn't fit your needs, build something else. It's your decision. Larry Flesner _______________________________________________ see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search_______________________________________________ see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 10:27:59 -0400 From: "Ron Freiberger" To: "KR Builders and Flyers" Subject: KR>Advice; single or two place Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 14 I chose to use a center stick, sit in the middle as a single. Put your feet on the outside pedals ( I have brakes on both sides) and enjoy the room and balance. Use a small header tank and feed fuel to it from wings or stubs. Enjoy it both ways. Ron Freiberger mailto: rfreiberger@swfla.rr.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 09:07:16 -0600 From: "roger mitchell" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>advice Message-ID: References: <000301c399dd$69fdaac0$0200a8c0@schpankme> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 15 IF YOU CARRY 24GAL'S. OF GAS you could be flying for up to 6 hrs.,do you = want to be in there for that long? 12 gal,s may be more reasonable ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Dean Cooper=20 To: KR builders and pilots=20 Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 4:49 AM Subject: Re: KR>advice Great. So, what you're telling me is this plane has a 224 lb capacity = for the pilot and passenger.... If that's the case, exactly how is = anyone flying this as a 2 place A/C (other than bringing their dog along = for the ride)? I guess if I want a two place A/C, I need to set this = one out on the curb on trash day and start over.... Dean Cooper Jacksonville, FL See my KR project at: www.geocities.com/djramccoop1/KR2.html ----- Original Message -----=20 From bearsfrizz@hotmail.com Fri Oct 24 08:46:00 2003 Received: from law12-f56.law12.hotmail.com ([64.4.19.56] helo=hotmail.com) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1AD48W-000LJY-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 08:46:00 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 08:16:53 -0700 Received: from 63.146.187.45 by lw12fd.law12.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 15:16:53 GMT X-Originating-IP: [63.146.187.45] X-Originating-Email: [bearsfrizz@hotmail.com] From: "ace nunye" To: krnet@mylist.net Bcc: Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 11:16:53 -0400 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Oct 2003 15:16:53.0778 (UTC) FILETIME=[DB359720:01C39A41] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1b3 Subject: KR>More on waf X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KR builders and pilots List-Id: KR builders and pilots List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: I've heard there hasnt been a waf failure "yet" but, wouldnt glassing the outer wing to the inner add lots of strength. Of course one would want to leave inspection covers in order to keep an eye on things but seems to me glassing the inner and outer together would be simple I know that removing the outer wing is not a breeze and is not something ya wanna do in order to trailer it to and from the airport so why not glass'em ? Mike, KR2s U/C in East TN. _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with [1]MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. References 1. http://g.msn.com/8HMBENCA/2746??PS= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 12:07:41 EDT From: WA7YXF@aol.com To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>More on waf Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 16 From Mike I've heard there hasnt been a waf failure "yet" but, wouldnt glassing the outer wing to the inner add lots of strength. Of course one would want to leave inspection covers in order to keep an eye on things but seems to me glassing the inner and outer together would be simple Mike, That's usually the way they are built if your following the plans. They are then cut apart if you wish. You might not need inspection covers, the outer skin will probably tell you there is a problem before you could tell by looking at the fittings. Lynn ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 198, Issue 1 *************************************