From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net on behalf of krnet-request@mylist.net Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 12:00 PM To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 204, Issue 2 Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. RE: kr2 handling characteristics (Jeff Waldron) 2. Re: Fiberglass 3. Re:KR vrs Dragonfly - safety (larry severson) 4. Re: kr2 handling characteristics (larry severson) 5. RE: kr2 handling characteristics (Wood, Sidney M.) 6. RE: kr2 handling characteristics (larry severson) 7. Re: Fiberglass (Jack Cooper) 8. RE: kr2 sportpilot? (Jeff Waldron) 9. Re: Fiberglass (Jack Cooper) 10. EAA Books (F Ross) 11. Re: kr2 handling characteristics (Bob Stone) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 10:01:02 -0500 From: Jeff Waldron To: 'KR builders and pilots' Subject: RE: KR>kr2 handling characteristics Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 1 Wouldn't the pilot owner have to be a CFI and wouldn't they also have to let you use his/her plane at no cost other than fuel. If you were to pay for it the training because it is an experimental aircraft? -----Original Message----- From: Bob Stone [mailto:rstone4@hot.rr.com] Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 9:37 AM To: KR builders and pilots Subject: Re: KR>kr2 handling characteristics It's OK for a low time pilot to attempt flying a KR but only if he has a death wish. If you were trained on a Cessna l50 or 152 as most of us were, this is a very forgiving low performance aircraft. The KR's on the other hand are a high performance aircraft and not forgiving at all. Find someone who ownes a 2 place KR-2 and learn to fly it with them even if you have to pay for it. This will be money well spent. Bob Stone, Harker Heights, TX rstone4@hot.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Raymond Hightower" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 8:30 PM Subject: KR>kr2 handling characteristics > Is a KR2 okay for a low time pilot? > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears_______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html _______________________________________________ see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 10:49:22 EST From: Robert7721@aol.com To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>Fiberglass Message-ID: <1e8.1222484d.2cd28d02@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 2 Gav, You had also asked a question on how much epoxy to buy. I ended up using 4-5 gallons of epoxy, but I am also scratch building all the way. I bought a gallon at a time as I needed it, not all at once, and bought the next gallon as it was getting low. That way you don't have epoxy sitting on your self for several years. Some epoxy does have usage dates. I've used West, T-88, Aeropoxy, and the dreaded vinyl-ester for the fuel tank. Rob Schmitt www.robert7721.com Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 9:55:08 -0500 From: To: KR builders and pilots Subject: Re: KR>Fiberglass Message-ID: <20031030145508.MMTD1849.imf22aec.mail.bellsouth.net@mail.bellsouth.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 19 wicks aircraft supply lists a kr glass in its list os glasses and coverings. google will give you the address. I think it' www.wicksaircraft.com. they will send you a catalogue also for asking. good reference--I've had good results with them since the 1970s--were just a few miles from the farm. > > From: Gavin Donohoe > Date: 2003/10/30 Thu AM 04:50:09 EST > To: KR builders and pilots > Subject: KR>Fiberglass > > Well I guess all of you have nothing holding your KR's together other > than epoxy!!!!! I thought this list was to help people like myself who are all alone out here with no local help. > You know I really don't have the information in my instruction book or > the plans. Why doesn't someone tell me what weight glass you have used and where you get the information ? it's ALMOST AS IF I've BEEN BLACKLISTED this isn't really such a silly question is it compared to some I've read on here. > > Gav ROBERT F. SCHMITT LTC, OD Home 816-333-9237 Cell 816-309-0099 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 07:53:09 -0800 From: larry severson To: KR builders and pilots Subject: KR>Re:KR vrs Dragonfly - safety Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20031030074617.028269d8@pop-server.socal.rr.com> In-Reply-To: <20031030125406.58684.qmail@web40909.mail.yahoo.com> References: <000e01c39e81$387cd220$0202a8c0@lori8v5h2xi9m3> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 3 >I am not a biker, nor do I have a lot of recent flying experience. >However, I do have 14,300 hours logged. If you are worried about stalls and spins, I would highly recommend the Dynon DC10 EFIS. In fact, I would recommend it anyway for the same reason that I will be installing it. During the test phase, I plan on clearly establishing the angle of attack for stall. (Information available from the complete EFIS system.) After that, I will use AOA as my primary approach info. The horror stories about floating and stalling are all caused by not have the right approach speed for the actual weight and conditions. As you approach the AOA for stall, the float on landing will be reduced. That is why the Navy makes it the sole speed indicator used for carrier landings. Larry Severson Fountain Valley, CA 92708 (714) 968-9852 larry2@socal.rr.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 08:08:32 -0800 From: larry severson To: KR builders and pilots Subject: Re: KR>kr2 handling characteristics Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20031030080134.028336e0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> In-Reply-To: <001e01c39ef3$577a9a00$ba21f218@hot.rr.com> References: <20031030023035.51975.qmail@web40514.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 4 At 08:37 AM 10/30/2003 -0600, you wrote: >It's OK for a low time pilot to attempt flying a KR but only if he has >a death wish. Not exactly. Substitute planning, research, and thought for experience. Proper testing procedures call for extensive taxi testing at increasing speeds, culminating in a 50 ft flight at 5 ft AGL. The first flight should include extensive testing of the low speed range of the aircraft, since you have to land the plane. (Using the Dynon DC10 would add to the safety factor.) Every vehicle, not just airplanes, can kill you. Think (and ask others) of all of the things that can go wrong, plan a correction for them, and have a safety crew standing by, EVEN if you are flying a Dragonfly for the first flight. Larry Severson Fountain Valley, CA 92708 (714) 968-9852 larry2@socal.rr.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 11:30:33 -0500 From: "Wood, Sidney M." 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<5.2.1.1.0.20031030084723.0283aae0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 6 At 11:30 AM 10/30/2003 -0500, you wrote: >The definitive answer is found on the EAA website >http://www.sportpilot.org/fag_instructor.html for using experimental >aircraft for instruction and compensation. >Sid Wood, KR-2 N6242 smwood@olg.com Try http://www.sportpilot.org/faq/faq_instructor.html Larry Severson Fountain Valley, CA 92708 (714) 968-9852 larry2@socal.rr.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 11:50:10 -0500 From: "Jack Cooper" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>Fiberglass Message-ID: <410-2200310430165010480@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 7 And buy vinyl-ester only when you are ready to use it. It has a relative short shelf life. Robert J. (Jack) Cooper kr2cooper@earthlink.net http://www.jackandsandycooper.com/kr2.html Why Wait? Move to EarthLink. > [Original Message] > From: > To: > Date: 10/30/03 10:49:22 AM > Subject: Re: KR>Fiberglass > > Gav, > > You had also asked a question on how much epoxy to buy. I ended up > using 4-5 > gallons of epoxy, but I am also scratch building all the way. I bought > a > gallon at a time as I needed it, not all at once, and bought the next gallon as it > was getting low. That way you don't have epoxy sitting on your self > for > several years. Some epoxy does have usage dates. I've used West, T-88, Aeropoxy, and > the dreaded vinyl-ester for the fuel tank. > > Rob Schmitt > www.robert7721.com > > > Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 9:55:08 -0500 > From: > To: KR builders and pilots > Subject: Re: KR>Fiberglass > Message-ID: > <20031030145508.MMTD1849.imf22aec.mail.bellsouth.net@mail.bellsouth.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Precedence: list > Message: 19 > > wicks aircraft supply lists a kr glass in its list os glasses and coverings. > google will give you the address. I think it' www.wicksaircraft.com. > they will > send you a catalogue also for asking. good reference--I've had good results > with them since the 1970s--were just a few miles from the farm. > > > > From: Gavin Donohoe > > Date: 2003/10/30 Thu AM 04:50:09 EST > > To: KR builders and pilots > > Subject: KR>Fiberglass > > > > Well I guess all of you have nothing holding your KR's together > > other than > epoxy!!!!! I thought this list was to help people like myself who are > all > alone out here with no local help. > > You know I really don't have the information in my instruction book > > or the > plans. Why doesn't someone tell me what weight glass you have used and where > you get the information ? it's ALMOST AS IF I've BEEN BLACKLISTED > this isn't > really such a silly question is it compared to some I've read on here. > > > > Gav > > ROBERT F. SCHMITT > LTC, OD > Home 816-333-9237 > Cell 816-309-0099 _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 12:20:00 -0500 From: Jeff Waldron To: 'KR builders and pilots' Subject: RE: KR>kr2 sportpilot? Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 8 the KR aircraft will not be classified under the new light sport aircraft category. -----Original Message----- From: Wood, Sidney M. [mailto:smwood@titan.com] Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 11:31 AM To: KR builders and pilots Subject: RE: KR>kr2 handling characteristics The definitive answer is found on the EAA website http://www.sportpilot.org/fag_instructor.html for using experimental aircraft for instruction and compensation. Sid Wood, KR-2 N6242 smwood@olg.com -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Waldron [mailto:jwaldron@GuarantyBankVA.com] Sent: Thu 10/30/2003 10:01 AM To: 'KR builders and pilots' Cc: Subject: RE: KR>kr2 handling characteristics Wouldn't the pilot owner have to be a CFI and wouldn't they also have to let you use his/her plane at no cost other than fuel. If you were to pay for it the training because it is an experimental aircraft? -----Original Message----- From: Bob Stone [mailto:rstone4@hot.rr.com ] Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 9:37 AM To: KR builders and pilots Subject: Re: KR>kr2 handling characteristics It's OK for a low time pilot to attempt flying a KR but only if he has a death wish. If you were trained on a Cessna l50 or 152 as most of us were, this is a very forgiving low performance aircraft. The KR's on the other hand are a high performance aircraft and not forgiving at all. Find someone who ownes a 2 place KR-2 and learn to fly it with them even if you have to pay for it. This will be money well spent. Bob Stone, Harker Heights, TX rstone4@hot.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Raymond Hightower" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 8:30 PM Subject: KR>kr2 handling characteristics > Is a KR2 okay for a low time pilot? > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears_______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html _______________________________________________ see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html _______________________________________________ see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 12:17:20 -0500 From: "Jack Cooper" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>Fiberglass Message-ID: <410-2200310430171720280@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 9 Gavin I wanted to respond to your question about books by suggesting the Tony Bingelis books, Firewall Forward, Sports Plane Builder, and Sports Plane Construction Techniques. All 3 are valuable references that should be part of your library. I think there is a supplier that offers all 3 books as a package deal at a discount. I started surfing the net to see if I could find who the supplier was and got distracted and never replied. I know when we have a question we all want the answer right now, but we all have busy lives. Be patient with us. You will know you are blacklisted when you are kicked off the KR net and that doesn't happen very often. Maybe someone on the net knows where to buy the books as a package deal without having to research it. Robert J. (Jack) Cooper kr2cooper@earthlink.net http://www.jackandsandycooper.com/kr2.html Why Wait? Move to EarthLink. > [Original Message] > From: Dan Heath > To: > Date: 10/30/03 6:32:47 AM > Subject: Re: KR>Fiberglass > > RE: I thought this list was to help people like myself who are all alone > out here with no local help. > > > > Gavin, > > > > You are right, this is your only hope. I looked for the answer to > your question in AS and Wickes. I found an Email address of > pilot@beegroup.com and my request to them was returned, address not > known. There ain't no black list, we are all just busy building our > planes and you have asked a question for which we may not have a > definitive answer. > > > > Be thankful, when I built my first, I was all alone and had no KR Net. > I am > building now and can't tell you what glass to use. I have tried two > kinds and cannot remember what they are, but it seems that the best > one, although, > maybe a little heavy, is the one sold for the Long EZ. If I remember > correctly, it is 5.5 oz bid glass. > > > > I was going to look in my plans for you, but it is not in yours, I > guess it > won't be in mine either. > > > > It also is difficult to estimate the amount of glass you would use and what > kind to use and how much resin to use, because there are so many variables. > What if you bought all pre-molded parts and were using wing skins, how much > and what kind would you need. People use all different kinds of > resin, we are using AeroPoxy, but will probably switch to West Systems > for the cowling > mold, but if I bought a cowling that would fit, I would not need any > of that > stuff. > > > > Also, you will want to only but what you will need in the next 6 > months or so, because you want your resin to always be fresh. > > > > Netters, how about some suggestions for glass type and weight and what resin > you like? Maybe some pros and cons to go along with it. > > > > N64KR > > > > Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC > > > > DanRH@KR-Builder.org > > > > See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering > > > > See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic > > See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 09:28:15 -0800 (PST) From: F Ross To: kr2cooper@earthlink.net, KR builders and pilots Subject: KR>EAA Books Message-ID: <20031030172815.70446.qmail@web40908.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <410-2200310430171720280@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 10 --- Jack Cooper wrote: > Gavin > I wanted to respond to your question about books by Jack, You might be thinking of the deal EAA offers it's chapters. Occassionally the chapters I've belonged to can order those books from EAA at really nice prices and that's how I got many of mine. It pays to belong. ===== Frank Ross, EAA Chapter 35, San Geronimo, TX RAF Lakenheath, Suffolk, England UK alamokr2@yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 13:33:30 -0600 From: "Bob Stone" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>kr2 handling characteristics Message-ID: <001201c39f1c$b3412ec0$ba21f218@hot.rr.com> References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 11 All that you ask would be up to the owner/pilot. I know os no reason why he or whe would have to be a CFI. Just find someone who has a two poace KR and work something out with them. Bob Stone ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Waldron" To: "'KR builders and pilots'" Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 9:01 AM Subject: RE: KR>kr2 handling characteristics > Wouldn't the pilot owner have to be a CFI and wouldn't they also have > to let > you use his/her plane at no cost other than fuel. If you were to pay > for it > the training because it is an experimental aircraft? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bob Stone [mailto:rstone4@hot.rr.com] > Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 9:37 AM > To: KR builders and pilots > Subject: Re: KR>kr2 handling characteristics > > > It's OK for a low time pilot to attempt flying a KR but only if he has > a death wish. If you were trained on a Cessna l50 or 152 as most of > us were, > this is a very forgiving low performance aircraft. The KR's on the > other hand are a high performance aircraft and not forgiving at all. > Find someone > who ownes a 2 place KR-2 and learn to fly it with them even if you > have to pay for it. This will be money well spent. > > Bob Stone, Harker Heights, TX > rstone4@hot.rr.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Raymond Hightower" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 8:30 PM > Subject: KR>kr2 handling characteristics > > > > Is a KR2 okay for a low time pilot? > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney > Spears_______________________________________________ > > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 204, Issue 2 *************************************