From: krnet-bounces+markl=hiwaay.net@mylist.net on behalf of krnet-request@mylist.net Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 12:00 PM To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 223, Issue 1 Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: type IV conversion manual dene colllet (Dene Collett (SA)) 2. Hi (alphabravo pilot) 3. RE: type IV conversion manual dene colllet (Philip Maley) 4. AlphaBravo web site. (Dan Heath) 5. Re: Bad Windshield News (Scott Cable) 6. RE: type IV conversion manual dene colllet (Norman Stapelberg) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 22:35:29 +0200 From: "Dene Collett \(SA\)" To: "KRnet" Subject: Re: KR>type IV conversion manual dene colllet Message-ID: <00c601c3ad4a$770f9180$37e5fea9@telkomsa127179> References: <000b01c3ac81$7e1d1660$a598ef9b@telkomsa127179> <00dc01c3acaa$1cf6f3f0$1202a8c0@basement> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 1 Mark L wrote: I'd run it off the crank end, where the power was meant to be > delivered. If you're going to design something to take the gyroscopic loads > anyway, I'd fasten it to the other end of the crank... Hi Mark Thanks for the reply, I was unaware of any failures of the type IV crank at all. I was led to believe that it was a very strong crank which if done properly would handle a lot of punishment. Even the failures mentioned earlier only spoke of the welded hub failing. I have considdered driving the prop from the flywheel end but cannot come up with a way of handling the thrust bearing issue without adding a bunch of unwanted extra weight. As a matter of interest I am getting a scrap crank from a local VW repairer and am going to conduct a test to see just how much torque the standard taper will handle before failing. I am first going to use some grinding paste to lap the taper surfaces for a perfect match, put it together with locktite and preheat the hub for a slight shrink fit on the crank.For this test I will be using a welded flange to the pulley hub with a long lever arm bolted to it. My guess is that for every broken crank out there, there are at least twenty that have been working fine for many hours.There was probably a very good reason for them breaking as well. I personally know of four KRs here that have used that system and have flown many hours. I must concede that they all use the longer taper as in the force 1 hub (unsupported) If you could find that info I would appreciate it. Phew, over and out Cheers dene.collett@telkomsa.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 21:30:15 +0000 From: "alphabravo pilot" To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR>Hi Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 2 Hello friends ..we have added some new photos to our sit www.uaespaces.com but I would like to pologise about some small problems with some pics which are still there,,but they will be corrected as soon as possiable _ hoprfuly day after tomorow_ best regards Nasser and haroldwoods _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 07:46:35 +0800 From: "Philip Maley" To: "'KRnet'" Subject: RE: KR>type IV conversion manual dene colllet Message-ID: <007301c3ad65$10832c40$0301a8c0@wotech.net> In-Reply-To: <00c601c3ad4a$770f9180$37e5fea9@telkomsa127179> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 3 Hi all The question of prop hubs and taper vs. parallel fit is discussed on the Australian Aeropower web site at http://www.arach.net.au/~munks/AEmenu.htm. This company has been producing VW derivative aircraft engines since the early 1980s. I have not seen a more comprehensive engine site anywhere. It's also interesting to note that all of their aero engines are type-1 derivatives. Here is an excerpt: Aeropower Engines decided against a tapered attachment flange in their design for several reasons: (a) The parallel flange can be used to retain the timing gears. Less work, less parts, less cost. (b) Parallelism is easy to measure. There is no need to lap mating faces and parts interchange easily. (c) Accidental overtorquing of the retaining bolt on a tapered flange can cause the flange to split or spread enough to cause a bearing clearance or oil rewind problem. (d) The reduced diameter at the nose of tapered cranks has been known to crack through to the front keyway, which then diminishes the effectiveness of the taper. (e) If a flange needs to be removed in the field it is very hard to stop oil getting onto the taper. The flange of the Aeropower Engines design can be removed or replaced in the field with simple hand tools, without dismantling the engine or risk of bending, distorting or misaligning the flange face. Since the grip of the flange does not rely on a taper, oil on the crankshaft is not a problem. Phil Maley Perth Australia ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 21:58:28 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" To: "krnet@mylist.net" Subject: KR>AlphaBravo web site. Message-ID: <3FB98AD4.000008.03120@Computer> References: Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 4 Your cowling looks great. What kind of foam did you use? Are you going = to add any narrative to your pictures? I sure would like to read about your process. =0D =0D N64KR=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering=0D =0D See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic=0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =20From GAVINANDLOUISE@bigpond.com Tue Nov 18 01:25:39 2003 Received: from [144.140.71.21] (helo=gizmo11ps.bigpond.com) by lizard.esosoft.net with smtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1AM278-000Ar9-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 01:25:39 -0800 Received: (qmail 6032 invoked from network); 18 Nov 2003 09:29:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oemcomputer) (144.135.25.81) by gizmo11ps.bigpond.com with SMTP; 18 Nov 2003 09:29:54 -0000 Received: from bph-d2-p-77-56.tmns.net.au ([144.134.77.56]) by psmam05.bigpond.com(MAM REL_3_3_2d 101/5562481); 18 Nov 2003 19:30:59 Message-ID: <000201c3adb7$4e1dc4a0$384d8690@oemcomputer> From: "Gavin Donohoe" To: "KRnet" References: <000b01c3ac81$7e1d1660$a598ef9b@telkomsa127179> <00dc01c3acaa$1cf6f3f0$1202a8c0@basement> <00c601c3ad4a$770f9180$37e5fea9@telkomsa127179> Subject: Re: KR>type IV conversion manual dene colllet Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 17:38:43 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KRnet List-Id: KRnet List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: Your defeating the purpose if you put loctite on the taper, It's simply not required and will weaken the locking effect of the taper. Gavin Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dene Collett (SA)" To: "KRnet" Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 6:35 AM Subject: Re: KR>type IV conversion manual dene colllet > Mark L wrote: > I'd run it off the crank end, where the power was meant to be > > delivered. If you're going to design something to take the > > gyroscopic > loads > > anyway, I'd fasten it to the other end of the crank... > Hi Mark > Thanks for the reply, I was unaware of any failures of the type IV > crank at > all. I was led to believe that it was a very strong crank which if > done properly would handle a lot of punishment. Even the failures > mentioned earlier only spoke of the welded hub failing. I have > considdered driving the prop from the flywheel end but cannot come up > with a way of handling the thrust bearing issue without adding a bunch > of unwanted extra weight. As a matter of interest I am getting a scrap > crank from a local VW repairer > and am going to conduct a test to see just how much torque the > standard taper will handle before failing. I am first going to use > some grinding paste to lap the taper surfaces for a perfect match, put > it together with locktite and preheat the hub for a slight shrink fit > on the crank.For this test I will be using a welded flange to the > pulley hub with a long lever arm > bolted to it. > My guess is that for every broken crank out there, there are at least twenty > that have been working fine for many hours.There was probably a very > good reason for them breaking as well. I personally know of four KRs > here that have used that system and have flown many hours. I must > concede that they all use the longer taper as in the force 1 hub > (unsupported) If you could find that info I would appreciate it. Phew, > over and out Cheers > dene.collett@telkomsa.net > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.541 / Virus Database: 335 - Release Date: 14/11/2003 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 10:48:36 -0800 (PST) From: Scott Cable To: KRnet Subject: Re: KR>Bad Windshield News Message-ID: <20031118184836.45503.qmail@web40804.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <3FB7F74A.000009.03700@Computer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 5 --- Dan Heath wrote: The only reason I bring you this bad news is so you will know why it seems that we don't make any progress and to discourage you from ever trying to do this when you can buy a canopy bubble from Todd for a little over $300. Dan, When Todd Sent me my canopy, he sent me an extra 1/3 more or less extra windshield. It's yours for the shipping costs if you want it. ===== Scott Cable KR-2S # 735 Wright City, MO s2cable1@yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 21:35:34 +0200 From: "Norman Stapelberg" To: "'KRnet'" Subject: RE: KR>type IV conversion manual dene colllet Message-ID: <000001c3ae0b$23bf2ab0$17ed1ec4@norman> In-Reply-To: <00c601c3ad4a$770f9180$37e5fea9@telkomsa127179> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 6 Hi Dene A friend of mine has done in the region of 500Hrs on a type IV 2.0 Ltin a Teenie Two, he had a forced landing two years ago, plane was a right off, the prop flange bent but crank still fine, he has nearly completed his replacement Teenie Two,his prop flange was made according to drawings in the manual mentioned,however the material was EN19 condition T, it very close to 4130. If memory serves me correct a cars clutch exerts a force of about 1700lbs thrust on the thrust bearing, a prop pulls in the region of 200lbs thrust on the thrust bearing. Regards Norshel Control Instrumentation cc Norman Stapelberg Cell: 027 83 277 9725 Home: 027 11 818 1345 Fax: 027 11 818 3547 Mark L wrote: I'd run it off the crank end, where the power was meant to be Thanks for the reply, I was unaware of any failures of the type IV crank at all. _______________________________________________ see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 223, Issue 1 *************************************