From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net on behalf of krnet-request@mylist.net Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2003 7:12 AM To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 232, Issue 1 Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. West system epoxy (Rick Wilson) 2. Re: The Proper Adhesive ? (Joseph H. Horton) 3. Re: The Proper Adhesive ? (Scott Cable) 4. KR-2 Owners in Colorado? (Ralph Snart) 5. Re: Scott Cable and Steve Jones Pictures (bill kirkland) 6. West System (Colin) 7. Re: the new guy 8. The Proper Adhesive ? (Larry A Capps) 9. Re: Justin's Inappropriate conduct (Mark Youkey) 10. Re: Justin's Inappropriate conduct (Dennis Mingear) 11. Re: KR-2 Cockpit size (Bob Sauer) 12. Wheels Tires Brakes and Master Cylinders 13. characteristics of epoxy. (Harold Woods) 14. New member (Peter Waijenberg) 15. Re: New member (Dan Heath) 16. Message for Justin (Dan Heath) 17. Re: Message for Justin (Mark Jones) 18. Re: Message for Justin 19. RE: Message for Justin (Ron Freiberger) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 12:13:01 -0800 (PST) From: Rick Wilson To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR>West system epoxy Message-ID: <20031126201301.43618.qmail@web21201.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 1 One paragraph on the website mentioned, says that west system epoxy in it's primary form is not an adhesive, You make it into glue by adding fillers. It would probably be excellent to use as glue when the right fillers are mixed properly. I believe I will stick with T-88 and not have to mix fillers every time I want to glue a joint. Everyone is entitled to use whatever they feel comfortable with. I guess in my mind I've just never thought about using epoxy systems for anything other than laying up fiberglass. Rick Wilson. ===== Rick Wilson, Haleyville, Alabama KR2-0200A -99% rwdw2002@yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 15:09:34 -0500 From: "Joseph H. Horton" To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>The Proper Adhesive ? Message-ID: <20031126.150935.152.0.joe.kr2s.builder@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 2 On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 10:28:01 -0800 "David Mikesell" writes: > Thanks Scott, but as I understand that the West system is for bonding > wood > and for doing fiberglass? > I was also curious about this about 5 years ago. I did some tests with different scraps of spruce and plywood that was laying around. I did not get results that I would bet my life on. The west epoxy was to runny to stay in the joint. It does not appear to have any good gap filling qualities as it is brittle by it's self. The destructive testing of my samples also broke at epoxy lines without bring wood fibers with it in many cases. Most of my boat is glued with rosinol glue as that is what Rand recommended at the time (nearly 10yrs ago) Use the epoxy that is made for it's primary mission. Joe Horton joe.kr2s.builder@juno.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:01:38 -0800 (PST) From: Scott Cable To: KRnet Subject: Re: KR>The Proper Adhesive ? Message-ID: <20031126210139.23057.qmail@web40801.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20031126.150935.152.0.joe.kr2s.builder@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 3 Joe and Others I did some testing also. I'll have to dig up the photos and other documentation of how I actually accomplished the test. I moved and don't have a clue where it went right now. When I locate it, I'll post the results somewhere. But as memory serves: The T-88 held up better than the West System for structural applications in my test. The West System acted more brittle. It also broke clean, as compared to the T-88 sample. The T-88 sample failed at the wood, not the joint. Leaving wood fibers on each side of the joint. You could actually see where the T-88 stoped penetrating in the joint, and that's where the wood failed! Just really proved to me that the spruce / epoxy is actually a composite(the true definition of), the combination is stronger than the individual components. I understood when I purchased the West System, that it's main use is a Laminating Resin. But was hailed by the boat and yacht industry as an excellent wood bonding epoxy. But as a result of my tests, the T-88 outperformed the West System in my book. I didn't compare test samples of BID layups, maybe I'll try and do a comparison this weekend. The Resorcinol (sp)adhesive (original formula) I thought was just about completely banned because of it's toxicity, but I understand was the best thing since sliced bread when building a wooden boat...which was what I had originally intended to use. I actually found some new formulated stuff over at Charlie's Farm and Home the other day....Day late and a dollar short! --- "Joseph H. Horton" wrote: > > On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 10:28:01 -0800 "David Mikesell" > writes: > > Thanks Scott, but as I understand that the West > system is for bonding wood and for doing fiberglass? > > > I was also curious about this about 5 years ago. I > did some tests with different scraps of spruce and plywood that was laying around. I did not get results that I would bet my life on. The west epoxy was to runny to stay in the joint. It does not appear to have any good gap filling qualities as it is brittle by it's self. The destructive testing of my samples also broke at epoxy lines without bring wood fibers with it in many cases. Most of my boat is glued with rosinol glue as that is what Rand recommended at the time (nearly 10yrs ago) Use the epoxy that is made for it's primary mission. > Joe Horton > joe.kr2s.builder@juno.com ===== Scott Cable KR-2S # 735 Wright City, MO s2cable1@yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 14:18:35 -0700 From: "Ralph Snart" To: Subject: KR>KR-2 Owners in Colorado? Message-ID: <001a01c3b462$daabe940$8d510918@youro0kwkw9jwc> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 4 Are there any KR-2 owners in the Fort Collins, CO area? I have read and = learn a lot in a few weeks reading the posts, and would like to see if = my 5'10, 210 pound carcass would comfortably fit in a KR-2 or KR-2S; I = am currently training in a C-150, so a comparison would be great. thanksFrom r.freiberger@earthlink.net Wed Nov 26 13:45:31 2003 Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.120.50]) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1AP7TW-00074b-00 for Krnet@mylist.net; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:45:31 -0800 Received: from dialup-65.56.10.40.dial1.indianapolis1.level3.net ([65.56.10.40] helo=zippersystems) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AP7Z4-0000Ha-00 for Krnet@mylist.net; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:51:15 -0800 From: "Ron Freiberger" To: "KRNET" Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 16:51:07 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal Subject: KR>Adhesives and Glues X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: r.freiberger@earthlink.net, KRnet List-Id: KRnet List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: Adhesives are what you use for floor tile and sticky notes; they creep with stress, but can be useful; especially good for Duct Tape. Glue is for structures. The best glue for wood is FPL16a, developed by Wisconsin's Forest Products Laboratories. It will penetrate wood about 0.1 inches, and is really superb. It will get all over you and your shop. T88 is perhaps not as good from a strength viewpoint, but MUCH nicer to work with and easier to mix correctly. Resorcinol glues come in two types; "Plastic Resin" glue, a one-part mixed with water. I've used lots of it, and it's good. In a thick glue joint, it will shrink/crack/fail, especially with time. Used correctly, it is a very good material; don't use it on your airplane. The other type is true resorcinol, it's purple, and for years it was the glue of choice for certified repairs. It will absolutely get ALL over you, the shop, the kids, etcetera. It will ruin clothes. You will not benefit from this choice. Aerolite, used correctly, can be a good glue. It will give you and your dog Cirrhosis of the liver. I will always choose T88 Ron Freiberger mailto: r.freiberger at earthlink.net r dot freiberger.... get it? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 17:22:35 -0500 From: "bill kirkland" To: "KRnet" Subject: Re: KR>Scott Cable and Steve Jones Pictures Message-ID: <003201c3b46b$cccd1ac0$02488a3f@lndn.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> References: <00ec01c3b3b6$fe960450$0301a8c0@wotech.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 5 Phil; My understanding is that the X braces were put in because under some loads the tail was twisting and this was exacerbated when the fuselage was lengthened. W.G.(Bill) KIRKLAND wkirkland@rogers.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Philip Maley" To: "'KRnet'" Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 7:48 PM Subject: RE: KR>Scott Cable and Steve Jones Pictures > Dan > > I noticed that Scott's fuselage > (http://kr-builder.org/ScottCable/index.html) has diagonal braces on > the top surface. My old KR2 plans do not show these diagonal members > so I assume the original design relies on the turtledeck to close the > "box" and provide torsional stiffness for the fuselage. > > Are the diagonal braces shown on the later KR2 or KR2S drawings? If > they are, can anyone advise if there was any incident that prompted RR > to add them? I'm sure they are a good idea but wondering if I need to > add them to my KR2. > > Thanks > Phil Maley > Perth Australia > > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 17:31:05 -0500 From: "Colin" To: Subject: KR>West System Message-ID: <006e01c3b46c$fb1634b0$f2452141@Beverly> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 6 I have used West System epoxy with great success for bonding large = non-structural areas, such as the new wider shelf, overlaid over the = original shelf and additional area. It was much easier, and cheaper. = All structural components have received the T-88 treatment per Mark = Langford's original recommendation to me back at the beginning of the = summer. It is not just good for like materials, but is excellent for = mixed material applications, i.e.. wood & glass, wood & aluminum, etc.. = provided one preps the 2 surfaces correctly. For bonding AND = reinforcing at the same time cotton flox using West epoxy, and cotton = flox added to a moist paste works wonderfully. It also gives great = flexibility in the materials to be bonded. Colin & Bev Rainey KR2(td) crainey1@cfl.rr.com http://kr-builder.org/Colin/index.html Sanford, Florida KR Gathering 2004-see ya in Mt VernonFrom crainey1@cfl.rr.com Wed Nov 26 14:41:12 2003 Received: from ms-smtp-04-smtplb.tampabay.rr.com ([65.32.5.134] helo=ms-smtp-04.tampabay.rr.com) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1)id 1AP8LQ-0008N6-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 14:41:12 -0800 Received: from Beverly (242.69.33.65.cfl.rr.com [65.33.69.242]) by ms-smtp-04.tampabay.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id hAQMkuh7005335 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 17:46:58 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <00b801c3b46f$2f70b170$f2452141@Beverly> From: "Colin" To: Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 17:46:52 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1b3 Subject: KR>Justin's conduct X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KRnet List-Id: KRnet List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: I have written him to get clarity off the net with no positive results, = and have to agree with Ron and Scott, and vote off. Colin & Bev Rainey KR2(td) crainey1@cfl.rr.com http://kr-builder.org/Colin/index.html Sanford, Florida KR Gathering 2004-see ya in Mt VernonFrom Timboyer2@wmconnect.com Wed Nov 26 14:55:03 2003 Received: from imo-m07.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.162]) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1AP8Yp-0008fF-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 14:55:03 -0800 Received: from Timboyer2@wmconnect.com by imo-m07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id g.11c.28afa984 (4184) for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 18:00:26 -0500 (EST) From: Timboyer2@wmconnect.com Message-ID: <11c.28afa984.2cf68a89@wmconnect.com> Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 18:00:25 EST Subject: Re: KR>Justin's conduct To: krnet@mylist.net MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 6.0 sub 12 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1b3 X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KRnet List-Id: KRnet List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: I have viewed postings of Justin's over the past several months I don't know about the rest of you fine pilots and builders but I have been flying aircraft for over 27 years and building them for 16 I find it insulting that this boy would make such remarks to a group of people that have offered their advise and some life saving advise to assist him in building his KR and then display such disrespect towards them. I must agree he should be removed until he learns to respect the very people with the experience and know how of flying and building aircraft Tim ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 18:06:28 EST From: MSHUBAT@aol.com To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>the new guy Message-ID: <155.28439d81.2cf68bf4@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 7 Hi I just purchased my second hombuilt it happens to be a rejected project that has been sitting for a few years its a Kr2 that is pretty much bone stock and needs to be finished onc I find some instruments and fwf. I hope to have it flying by spring I am looking for parts and Im interested in the corvair conversion I am also looking for builders in the northwest ark. area any help would be great Thanks Matt ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 17:43:38 -0600 From: "Larry A Capps" To: "KR Builders List \(E-mail\)" Subject: KR>The Proper Adhesive ? Message-ID: <000901c3b477$1dfe9f80$0200a8c0@schpankme> In-Reply-To: <20031126.150935.152.0.joe.kr2s.builder@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 8 The simple solution to wood bonding, using West System epoxy or any other "like" epoxy, is with the addition of a filler. Fumed Silica (Cabosil) is used to thicken epoxy and increase it's bonding strength to wood. To thicken epoxy for bonding wood and gap filling add approximately 3% by weight. To make a gel coat paste, which is extremely hard and abrasion resistant, mix approximately equal volumes. You will have to experiment to develop the best ratios for the specific epoxy system your using. NOTE: Fumed Silica (Cabosil) mixed with epoxy dries to a very hard finish, which can be difficult to sand. Larry A Capps Naperville, IL "It only takes two things to fly, airspeed and money" -----Original Message----- I did some tests with different scraps of spruce and plywood I did not get results that I would bet my life on. The west epoxy was to runny to stay in the joint. It does not appear to have good gap filling qualities ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 18:01:51 -0600 From: "Mark Youkey" To: , "KRnet" Subject: Re: KR>Justin's Inappropriate conduct Message-ID: <001401c3b479$a8fbc2a0$6400a8c0@blah> References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 9 I agree with Velocity Freiberger. Asking stupid questions and saying stupid things is forgivable, but being downright offensive is not. Obviously he is in need of information from the list (as are most of us), perhaps we can put him in a radio silent/receive only mode? Mark Youkey myoukey@cox.net Oklahoma City ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Freiberger" Subject: RE: KR>Justin's Inappropriate conduct > This old curmudgeon says vote him off. > > Ron Freiberger > mailto: r.freiberger@earthlink.net > r dot freiberger.... get it? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 16:07:32 -0800 (PST) From: Dennis Mingear To: KRnet Subject: Re: KR>Justin's Inappropriate conduct Message-ID: <20031127000732.69370.qmail@web12607.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <001401c3b479$a8fbc2a0$6400a8c0@blah> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 10 This is what I would support. Is there a way to make him "read only" for awhile. I would like for him to be able to at least read what's goiung on, for his safety if nothing else. Denny ... Mark Youkey wrote: Obviously he is in need of information from the list (as are most of us), perhaps we can put him in a radio silent/receive only mode? Mark Youkey myoukey@cox.net Oklahoma City --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it nowFrom WA7YXF@aol.com Wed Nov 26 17:29:23 2003 Received: from imo-r08.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.104]) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1APAyB-000B4x-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 17:29:23 -0800 Received: from WA7YXF@aol.com by imo-r08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id g.158.28776306 (4468) for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 20:35:07 -0500 (EST) From: WA7YXF@aol.com Message-ID: <158.28776306.2cf6aecb@aol.com> Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 20:35:07 EST Subject: Re: KR>Justin's Inappropriate conduct To: krnet@mylist.net MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10708 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1b3 X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KRnet List-Id: KRnet List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: > This is what I would support. Is there a way to make him "read only" > for > awhile. I would like for him to be able to at least read what's goiung on, for > his safety if nothing else. > Denny He can always read the archive's at --- http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ There is nothing he has to say that I want to listen to. Lynn Hyder ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 20:27:54 -0700 From: "Bob Sauer" To: "KRnet" Subject: Re: KR>KR-2 Cockpit size Message-ID: <00ee01c3b496$72249500$a43a3818@ph.cox.net> References: <001a01c3b462$daabe940$8d510918@youro0kwkw9jwc> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 11 Ralph, I am exactly your size and am building a KR2S. It is a tight fit width wise, so I would widen the cockpit by at least 4" if I were do it again. Bob Sauer From: resauer@cox.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ralph Snart" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 2:18 PM Subject: KR>KR-2 Owners in Colorado? Are there any KR-2 owners in the Fort Collins, CO area? I have read and learn a lot in a few weeks reading the posts, and would like to see if my 5'10, 210 pound carcass would comfortably fit in a KR-2 or KR-2S; I am currently training in a C-150, so a comparison would be great. thanks_______________________________________________ see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 23:18:23 EST From: JSMONDAY@aol.com To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR>Wheels Tires Brakes and Master Cylinders Message-ID: <125.28250ff4.2cf6d50f@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 12 Just wanted to get some input...on the KRNET.ORG website Tracy O'Brien is listed for brakes and tires etc. I am building a KR2S, Corvair engine, and tricycle gear (nose wheel). I will be ordering the Diehl mains as was thinking about using these wheels, brakes and tires as was suggested by Tracy.. does anyone have any input??? the package for tires wheels and brakes comes in at under $600. I wanted to mount these on the Diehl gear 3/4" Cessna type axles C-90 Hydraulic Brakes 6x3 Azusa Tristar wheels 13-500x6 Low Profile Ribbed Tires Hegar Heel activated mastercylinders - modified for pedal operation. I was going to use the stock Diehl nose wheel. Does anyone have any comments plus or minus??? looks like package is rated for 1200 lbs, and 60 kts landing speed which should pretty much cover it I think??? Thanks, John Monday KR2S Laguna Beach, CA ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 00:48:10 -0500 From: "Harold Woods" To: Subject: KR>characteristics of epoxy. Message-ID: <00f401c3b4aa$0a394030$08ee6418@HAROLD> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 13 The West system is probably the best all around epoxy for building a = KR.It is unexcelled in glueing wood and in encapsulating it .There are = several different cataylsts available depending on the temperature that = you are working at and the pot life that you wish to work with.It wets = out fibreglass cloth very nicely as well as any other brand. I have found that as a glue it is best to add some thickener such as = cabosil to keep it from running out of a glue joint. You should not over = clamp the glue joints as this squeezes too much of the glue out. The = epoxy is stronger than the wood.Give the glue a moment or so to soak = into the wood, add a bit more and place the two parts together. It = really takes several days before this epoxy is ready for good sanding. This is why I like CGSX epoxy, it is ready for sanding the next day. It = is a better glue than a laminating epoxy. It is the cheapest of all that I have come across. $120.00Can for a 2 = gallon kit.(1 gal epoxy & 1 gal hardener) The West system runs about $180.00Can for a 1 gallon kit. The CSGX is a = thicker resin(probably Shell 828) Apply a bit if heat and it quickly becomes very fluid but it will set up = faster. Run a heat gun over the spread epoxy fibreglass to get the = bubbles out and it's penetration is very good.It sets up much faster = then. The original concept of Ken Rand to use dynel and epoxy produced a plane = that was sufficiently strong for the job. Yet dynel is so weak compared = to regular boat 6 oz. cloth that I am amazed that so much hype is now = added , such that" the glass must be placed at 45 degrees on the spar = for maximum strength" .Who cares, it is too strong as it is. A chain is = only as strong as it's weakest link.Epoxy fibreglass is not the weakest = link in the present KR. There are other brands of epoxy out there. T-88 is a good epoxy. Bondo = make a suitable alternative.I have tried others over the years ,I do not = like the brittle ones. Any good epoxy resin whether it is Dow or Shell = make good products but you must be careful of the hardener that your = supplier uses. If you require a long pot life like when you are doing = your spars or are working with wet wood, Use Versamid 140 hardener. It = has 6 to 8 hour pot life and will set up in 24 hours, It is not brittle = and makes an excellent fibreglass geer leg. When I said wet wood I mean = it. That hardener loves moisture and will follow it into the pores of = the wood taking the resin along to give a very firm grip on the wood. If = any one was making a plane with wing ribs that are built up of thing = strips. they are often steamed to get the shape of the front of the = wing. They can be taken right out of the steamer and bent to shape in = the wing rib jig and glued in place with plywood gussets etc. You do not = have to wait for the wood to dry. Versamid is a thick hardener and thus = is not a good laminating choice for fibreglass. Heat helps to make it = fliud. You are going to have to experiment with the epoxy system that suits = your purposes. If any one wants to try Versamid 140 hardener I will send = you a few ounces by parcel post if you pay for the postage. I have a = gallon left over and it is getting old like I am. I check it = periodically and find that age has not bothered it in the least, as long = as the epoxy resin is clean and relatively fresh. Once the gallon is = gone so is the offer. Happy building, Harold Woods,Orillia,ON.Canada. haroldwoods@rogers.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.543 / Virus Database: 337 - Release Date: 11/22/2003From barryk@tpg.com.au Wed Nov 26 23:21:51 2003 Received: from gizmo05bw.bigpond.com ([144.140.70.15]) by lizard.esosoft.net with smtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1APGTH-000DtD-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 23:21:51 -0800 Received: (qmail 19221 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2003 07:29:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO t1w419) (144.135.24.69) by gizmo05bw.bigpond.com with SMTP; 27 Nov 2003 07:29:10 -0000 Received: from ess-p-144-138-70-124.mega.tmns.net.au ([144.138.70.124]) by bwmam01.bigpond.com(MAM REL_3_3_2d 2/4667168); 27 Nov 2003 17:27:36 Message-ID: <003601c3b4b7$d323f5f0$3404070a@t1w419> From: "Barry Kruyssen" To: "KRnet" References: <158.28776306.2cf6aecb@aol.com> Subject: Re: KR>Justin's Inappropriate conduct Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 17:26:49 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KRnet List-Id: KRnet List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: I think Justin has got the message. I was once young and my mouth exceeded my brain on more than one occassion (as has been the case with most of us) and still does on the odd occassion. (Justin, don't prove this to one of them) I disagree with excluding Justin from this list. BUT, next time Justin......................................... Regards Barry Kruyssen Cairns, Australia kr2@BigPond.com AUF Registered 19-3873 http://users.tpg.com.au/barryk/kr2.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 02:52:57 -0800 (PST) From: Peter Waijenberg To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR>New member Message-ID: <20031127105257.6896.qmail@web11301.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 14 I would like to introduce myself to the group. My name is Peter Waijenberg and I live in the Netherlands. After looking for a year at all the beautiful web pages of all members I decided that I would like to build a KR2S. I have just sent a fax to RR for the plans. I probably will ask many stupid questions but please bear with me. I have no experience in building aircraft and I just started learning to fly. But this was always my dream and I decided to go for it. I did buy plans for a Sonerai but decided that the KR would be more suitable for me. One thing that does puzzle me about the aircraft is the pitch sensitivity. From what I have red here and there a lot of builders lengthen the fuselage. My question, the KR2S is 14” longer behind the wing than the stock KR2. What is your opinion about this? Is it sufficient or can you go for more. Then can you make the cabin 43”safely. I would appreciate your opinions on this. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 06:58:06 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" To: "krnet@mylist.net" Subject: Re: KR>New member Message-ID: <3FC5E6CE.000007.02616@Computer> References: <20031127105257.6896.qmail@web11301.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 15 Peter,=0D =0D Welcome. I have flown a KR2 and while it is pitch sensitive, it is not difficult to fly. I am sure that the extension that you get with the KR2= S will be most sufficient. Yes you can widen it, but do you NEED to? I emphasize NEED. I am now building my second KR2 and have modified both o= f them slightly. I have found that for every modification you make, you ha= ve to make many others to compensate for it. Weigh every modification very carefully. You will pay for every one of them in one way or another. Mo= st of them will cost you in performance.=0D =0D Always think about total weight and keeping that weight within CG limits.= =0D =0D We are glad to have you and ask anything you want to ask about building a= KR or an engine to power it. =0D =0D N64KR=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering=0D =0D See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic=0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =20From red-bridge@juno.com Thu Nov 27 04:28:29 2003 Received: from m26.lax.untd.com ([64.136.30.89]) by lizard.esosoft.net with smtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1APLG1-000F56-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 04:28:29 -0800 Received: from cookie.untd.com by cookie.untd.com for <"ls4hEsNnkEddqybMuKN9Rp9i9mJ+ma6yJLeHyxoKcxnp7SeRb8UZIA==">; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 04:33:36 PST Received: (from red-bridge@juno.com) by m26.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JFY9XJPK; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 04:33:36 PST To: krnet@mylist.net Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 07:32:54 -0500 Subject: Re: KR>TANKS IN OUTER WINGS Message-ID: <20031127.073254.2036.2.red-bridge@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2-8 From: Clancey D Krumwiede X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KRnet List-Id: KRnet List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 19:31:23 -0800 "David Mikesell" writes: > Well, yes the fuel tanks will add stress to the WAF but only on the > ground > and during landing because in the out board panels they don't count > towards > the gross weight. And just where do most airplanes spend a vast majority of their time? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 07:41:18 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" To: "krnet@mylist.net" Subject: KR>Message for Justin Message-ID: <3FC5F0EE.00000D.02616@Computer> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 16 Justin,=0D =0D I know that what I said provoked you and I apologize for that. It was on= ly intended a good natured ribbing and I did not mean to upset you. You alw= ays seemed to be a person with "thick skin" and I gave no thought to ribbing = you a little.=0D =0D While your NET conduct is in-excusable, I am not for having you banned fr= om the net. The thing is, that if you want to be a part of the family, then you must act toward the members of the family, as they would wish for you= to act towards them.=0D =0D If your personal mail address were available on your messages, I would ha= ve responded to you personally. And I promise not to rib you in public anym= ore =0D =0D N64KR=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering=0D =0D See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic=0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =20From DanRH@alltel.net Thu Nov 27 04:42:49 2003 Received: from mta01.alltel.net ([166.102.165.143] helo=mta01-srv.alltel.net) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1APLTs-000FHt-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 04:42:49 -0800 Received: from Computer ([151.213.95.136]) by mta01-srv.alltel.net with SMTP id <20031127124837.HYQH11508.mta01-srv.alltel.net@Computer> for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 06:48:37 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <3FC5F2A5.000011.02616@Computer> Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 07:48:37 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) X-Mailer: IncrediMail 2001 (2001155.2001155) From: "Dan Heath" X-FID: FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 X-FVER: 3.0 X-CNT: ; X-Priority: 3 To: "krnet@mylist.net" Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1b3 Subject: KR>Sticky Stuff X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KRnet List-Id: KRnet List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: While I know nothing about the properties of the various sticky products,= I have a lot of experience using them. To the person who wants to use only one, I don't think that is a good idea. The reason that I say this, is because I believe that each of them is made for a purpose and if you use = the right one for your purpose, you will get the best results.=0D =0D For gluing stuff, I don't think you can beat T-88.=0D =0D Be careful of the "laminating" resins. Use them for building laminates.=20 That gummy stuff on the top, is there so you can stick something else to = it. It is not meant for you to sand.=0D =0D AeroPoxy is a good resin for doing layups. It can be sanded immediately.= =20 The only thing that I don't like about it is the smell, but then most of them smell bad. =0D =0D N64KR=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering=0D =0D See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic=0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =20From Flymaca711689@aol.com Thu Nov 27 05:21:47 2003 Received: from imo-m07.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.162]) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1APM5b-000FR9-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 05:21:47 -0800 Received: from Flymaca711689@aol.com by imo-m07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id g.1e6.144333bf (4539) for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 08:27:31 -0500 (EST) From: Flymaca711689@aol.com Message-ID: <1e6.144333bf.2cf755c3@aol.com> Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 08:27:31 EST To: krnet@mylist.net MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1b3 Subject: KR>kr happy thanksgiving X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KRnet List-Id: KRnet List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: will the fogs getting ready to lift so IM off to the airport my mission a flight to get oysters just other excuse to fly the Kr. happy holidays to all to Justin!!! it sounds like you need to be a man and say your sorry to the group or at lest dan for bring the heat off of you before you burn !!!!!!!! mac n1055a2w6 flymaca711689@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 08:04:37 -0600 From: "Mark Jones" To: "KRnet" Subject: Re: KR>Message for Justin Message-ID: <001c01c3b4ef$654044c0$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> References: <3FC5F0EE.00000D.02616@Computer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 17 >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Dan Heath" >If your personal mail address were available on your messages, I would >have responded to you personally. And I promise not to rib you in >public anymore You can get someone's e-mail from any post even if it does not show up anywhere in the e-mail. To do this, in your in box where all the e-mails are listed, right click on the e-mail you wish to look at. A pop up box will open and at the bottom of this box click on properties. There you will see the senders e-mail address. You can also click on details and copy and paste the e-mail address. Hope this helps. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 09:18:10 -0500 (EST) From: paulwasp@webtv.net To: krnet@mylist.net (KRnet) Subject: Re: KR>Message for Justin Message-ID: <4818-3FC607A2-2758@storefull-2196.public.lawson.webtv.net> In-Reply-To: "Mark Jones" 's message of Thu, 27 Nov 2003 08:04:37 -0600 Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Precedence: list Message: 18 .....and all of you KR builders out there, a Happy Turkey Day! Paul Gangemi KR2s, priming (when weather permits) Erie, PA http://community.webtv.net/paulwasp/paulwaspspad ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 10:16:03 -0500 From: "Ron Freiberger" To: "KRnet" Subject: RE: KR>Message for Justin Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <001c01c3b4ef$654044c0$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 19 Mark Jones said; You can get someone's e-mail from any post even if it does not show up anywhere in the e-mail. To do this, in your in box where all the e-mails are listed, right click on the e-mail you wish to look at. A pop up box will open and at the bottom of this box click on properties. There you will see the senders e-mail address. You can also click on details and copy and paste the e-mail address. Hope this helps. Actually, some systems don't, and mine shows "krbounces" and the person's name. However, in cleaning out my "Spaminator" this morning, I found a profane and threatening letter from Justin which included his email address; jmw116@socal.rr.net So, If you want threatening notes and such, you can use this address. Ron Freiberger mailto: r.freiberger at earthlink.net r dot freiberger.... get it? ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 232, Issue 1 *************************************