From: krnet-bounces+johnbou=speakeasy.net@mylist.net on behalf of krnet-request@mylist.net Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 12:02 PM To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 257, Issue 2 Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. HS Attach (Justin) 2. RE: airfoils-2300 series. (Dana Overall) 3. Re: airfoils-2300 series. (James R Freeman) 4. CHT sensor location on VW (Oscar Zuniga) 5. Final thoughts on airfoils (robert tallini) 6. Re: CHT sensor location on VW (Ron Eason) 7. anyone close to LA. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 03:58:35 -0800 From: "Justin" To: Subject: KR>HS Attach Message-ID: <000e01c3c882$eddbe220$47da1818@computer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 1 I have been flooking at other peoples designs and the plans and dont = know what to do as for attaching my HS on my boat. The problem is Mark = who knows his struff really good made the brackets out of aluminum = instead of just the wood like the plans call for. Any thoughts idea's ..... I am running a Stock tail except 2"wider, = balanced and the elevator is the new airfoil for a smaller cord (less = sensitive). Kr fuselage is stock with the exception of 1" 1/2 wider than = stock. Justin N116JW www.geocities.com/attngrabber14/HomeFrom audreyandharoldwoods@rogers.com Mon Dec 22 08:30:34 2003 Received: from fep01-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com ([66.185.86.71]) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1AYSx0-00044Z-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 08:30:34 -0800 Received: from HAROLD ([24.100.238.8]) by fep01-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com (InterMail vM.5.01.05.12 201-253-122-126-112-20020820) with ESMTPid <20031222161733.ZGIO209430.fep01-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com@HAROLD> for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2003 11:17:33 -0500 Message-ID: <007601c3c8a7$59fdba40$08ee6418@HAROLD> From: "Harold Woods" To: Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 11:19:18 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at fep01-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com from [24.100.238.8] using ID at Mon, 22 Dec 2003 11:17:33 -0500 Subject: KR>airfoils-2300 series. X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KRnet List-Id: KRnet List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: Hi netters. Lloyd certainly pegged it down with his list of aircraft types that use the 2300 series wing section. I have some experience with a Jodel D-11. To soften the stall, wing strakes were added. They are triangular wooden blocks about 3/4 x 3/4 x 3/4 about 15 inches long. They were applied spanwise on the leading edge of the wing , about 2 feet out from the fuselage. They were about 10 degrees below the leading edge of the wing. Their purpose was the start the stall at the root of the wing. This worked well , provided warning of the coming stall and gave you good aileron control during the stall. Such a set up would probably work well on the KR. But then why bother ? The new airfoils for the KR seem to work well but I have not heard anything about the stall characteristcs. I am going to try the GAW-1 airfoil on mine. Merry Christmas to all. Harold Woods Orillia,Ontario, Canada. haroldwoods@rogers.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.553 / Virus Database: 345 - Release Date: 12/18/2003 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 11:45:36 -0500 From: "Dana Overall" To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: RE: KR>airfoils-2300 series. Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 2 >From: "Harold Woods" >I have some experience with a Jodel D-11. To soften the stall, wing >strakes >were added. They are triangular wooden blocks about 3/4 x 3/4 x 3/4 about >15 >inches long. They were applied spanwise on the leading edge of the wing , >about 2 feet out from the fuselage. They were about 10 degrees below the >leading edge of the wing. Their purpose was the start the stall at the root >of the wing. This worked well , provided warning of the coming stall and >gave you good aileron control during the stall My Bonanza has them but they are only about .25 x .25 and it still departs level flight like a "big dog" when that wing decides to stop flying:-) It'll sure get you attention, great amusement park ride. BTW, this is prevalent in all Bonanzas, not just mine. Dana Overall 1999 & 2000 National KR Gathering host Richmond, KY RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" Finish kit Buying Instruments. Hangar flying my Dynon. http://rvflying.tripod.com do not archive _________________________________________________________________ It’s our best dial-up Internet access offer: 6 months @$9.95/month. Get it now! http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 12:02:43 -0500 From: James R Freeman To: KRnet Subject: Re: KR>airfoils-2300 series. Message-ID: <049201c3c8ad$6b3c57c0$5dd790cf@HP> References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 3 I will agree with Dana. I have flown several different Bonanzas and the stalls are interesting at best. J. R. Freeman Whitley City, KY ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dana Overall" To: Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 11:45 AM Subject: RE: KR>airfoils-2300 series. > >From: "Harold Woods" > >I have some experience with a Jodel D-11. To soften the stall, wing > >strakes were added. > >15 > >inches long. They were applied spanwise on the leading edge of the wing , > >about 2 feet out from the fuselage. They were about 10 degrees below the > >leading edge of the wing. Their purpose was the start the stall at the root > >of the wing. This worked well , provided warning of the coming stall > >and gave you good aileron control during the stall > > My Bonanza has them but they are only about .25 x .25 and it still > departs level flight like a "big dog" when that wing decides to stop > flying:-) It'll sure get you attention, great amusement park ride. > BTW, this is prevalent in all Bonanzas, not just mine. > > > > Dana Overall > 1999 & 2000 National KR Gathering host > Richmond, KY > RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" > Finish kit > Buying Instruments. Hangar flying my Dynon. http://rvflying.tripod.com > do not archive > > _________________________________________________________________ > It's our best dial-up Internet access offer: 6 months @$9.95/month. > Get it now! http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 11:47:55 -0600 From: "Oscar Zuniga" To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR>CHT sensor location on VW Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 4 Howdy, Netters- I got my "Beetle Flyer" (from Great Plains Aircraft Supply) over the weekend and took notice of a tech tip on locating your CHT sensor on the VW engine ( down the page, at http://www.greatplainsas.com/bf20032.html ). Standard practice is to install it under a spark plug, but Steve Bennett points out that your CHT temps will read high if you do this... by as much as 150F. He recommends installing it under a head stud (location is given in the text in the Flyer, but not as clear as it could be). Long and short of it is that if you're running a VW and have your CHT sensor under a spark plug, you may not be getting readings that reflect what you're really interested in. If Bob Hoover is still monitoring this list, maybe he would care to chime in? If Steve is monitoring this list, maybe he would care to elaborate more clearly on the preferred location? The picture in the Flyer identifies a boss that is used for fuel injection temp. probe, but doesn't say this is the recommended spot (and doesn't seem to be a good spot anyway). The idea is to respect the metallurgy of the head castings by not allowing the CHT to exceed recommended temperature... bad and irreversible damage can result if the metal gets too hot. Oh, and somewhat timely and related to Mark Jones and Mark Langford's two different approaches to cooling plenum on the Corvair, the Beetle Flyer also addresses cooling plenum design for the VW on the above-referenced webpage. Happy holidays! Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ It’s our best dial-up Internet access offer: 6 months @$9.95/month. Get it now! http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 12:30:59 -0600 (GMT-06:00) From: robert tallini To: KRnet@mylist.net Subject: KR>Final thoughts on airfoils Message-ID: <15328620.1072117863228.JavaMail.root@grover.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 5 There is one more point I should like to make concerning my request for opinions regarding the strength of 3/16" ply webs on 23012 airfoil spars. I was not asking for opinions on the airfoil. I was disappointed, and not a little irritated to find myself the subject of comments concerning my general intelligence and lack of flying experience. We are involved in building EXPERIMENTAL aircraft. Not that we should reinvent the wheel or disregard the knowledge that others have contributed, BUT, the moment when we stop searching for optional [perhaps even better] ways of doing things is the moment when advancement in homebuilt aircraft atrophies. I feel very strongly that impuning a KRnet contributor, or anyone for that matter,on a personal level is in very bad taste. We should confine our replies to his question or to the issue involved, not sink to personal disparagement. I was not comparing the currently popular AS5046 or 48 to the 23012. It appears that even mentioning another airfoil seems to cause many builders using this design to take it as an insult to their judgement. Personally I think these airfoils are probably excellent but the graph I saw gave them only a 10mph advantage over the RAF48. Wherebye Roy Marsh topped 190mph. It's true he did it with a clipped wing. I will concede the AS 50 series is a safer bet. However, Wilbur and Orville thought wing warping was the way to go. They were very critical of Glen Curtis when he developed the aileron. The purpose of this message is simply I felt the aim of the KRnet was to share knowledge and experience. To criticize the qestioner is grammer school behavior and most of you know it Merry Christmas Bob Tallini ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 12:41:27 -0600 From: "Ron Eason" To: "KRnet" Subject: Re: KR>CHT sensor location on VW Message-ID: <016a01c3c8bb$3572a050$6501a8c0@Administration> References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 6 Oscar, I am building a VW engine also. Consider this, anywhere you place the pr= obe you are going to read a different temperature. Regardless of its location= , I believe the intent is to get a idea of when the engine is getting to hot. My experience in R&D engine testing has been that we place the probe in a location that represents the hot spot relative to the component being tes= ted while monitoring other locations to see where the heat is migrating. You = may then set the limits of operation. The locations are important but should = be read with knowledge of where its positioned. Probe it at different locations to gain knowledge to understand how the engine is being cooled. Maybe use multiple probes with a exhaust gas probe. Them I would place it= at the hottest point to foreworn you of cooling problems. KRRon ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Oscar Zuniga" To: Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 11:47 AM Subject: KR>CHT sensor location on VW > Howdy, Netters- > > I got my "Beetle Flyer" (from Great Plains Aircraft Supply) over the weekend > and took notice of a tech tip on locating your CHT sensor on the VW > eng= ine > ( down the page, at http://www.greatplainsas.com/bf20032.html ). > Stand= ard > practice is to install it under a spark plug, but Steve Bennett points > = out > that your CHT temps will read high if you do this... by as much as > 150F. He > recommends installing it under a head stud (location is given in the > te= xt in > the Flyer, but not as clear as it could be). Long and short of it is > t= hat > if you're running a VW and have your CHT sensor under a spark plug, > you may > not be getting readings that reflect what you're really interested in. > > If Bob Hoover is still monitoring this list, maybe he would care to > chi= me > in? If Steve is monitoring this list, maybe he would care to > elaborate more > clearly on the preferred location? The picture in the Flyer > identifies= a > boss that is used for fuel injection temp. probe, but doesn't say this > = is > the recommended spot (and doesn't seem to be a good spot anyway). The idea > is to respect the metallurgy of the head castings by not allowing the > C= HT to > exceed recommended temperature... bad and irreversible damage can > resul= t if > the metal gets too hot. > > Oh, and somewhat timely and related to Mark Jones and Mark Langford's > t= wo > different approaches to cooling plenum on the Corvair, the Beetle > Flyer also > addresses cooling plenum design for the VW on the above-referenced webpage. > > Happy holidays! > > Oscar Zuniga > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > _________________________________________________________________ > It=92s our best dial-up Internet access offer: 6 months @$9.95/month. > G= et it > now! http://join.msn.com/?page=3Ddept/dialup > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 14:48:28 EST From: Wurlibird12@aol.com To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR>anyone close to LA. Message-ID: <170.27e9740c.2d18a48c@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 7 Just curious if there are any KR owners close to Lafayette, LA. I would really like to see a completed aircraft & maybe a ride. Dean Franklin Wurlibird12@aol.com ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 257, Issue 2 *************************************