From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net To: John Bouyea Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 335, Issue 2 Date: 3/9/2004 7:38:02 PM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Rand/Robinson Engineering (Bob Stone) 2. Re: Rand/Robinson Engineering (Bob Stone) 3. Re: Rand/Robinson Engineering (Wayne Israelsen) 4. Re: KR Wood (cartera) 5. Re: Rand/Robinson Engineering--Assumption of Liability (Max Hardberger) 6. Re: Angle of attack indicator (Martindale Family) 7. Error (cartera) 8. Re: Rand/Robinson Engineering--Assumption of Liability (joe) 9. Re: Rand/Robinson Engineering--Assumption of Liability (joe) 10. Re: Rand/Robinson Engineering--Assumption of Liability (Max Hardberger) 11. Aircraft Spruce & Specialty (Mark Jones) 12. Re: Carb heat (Dan Heath) 13. Re: Rand/Robinson Engineering--Assumption of Liability (joe) 14. Re: Rand/Robinson Engineering--Assumption of Liability (joe) 15. Re: Rand/Robinson Engineering--Assumption of Liability (joe) 16. Re: Aircraft Spruce & Specialty (joe) 17. Re: kr2 (Steve Jones) 18. RE: Rand/Robinson Engineering (Jim Faughn) 19. Re: Aircraft Spruce & Specialty ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 14:02:23 -0600 From: "Bob Stone" To: "KRnet" Subject: Re: KR>Rand/Robinson Engineering Message-ID: <001e01c40611$70a6b240$ba21f218@hot.rr.com> References: <000801c405de$381b2c40$ba21f218@hot.rr.com> <011701c405e4$8a88ccc0$5e0ca58c@tbe.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 1 Mark, I think it already has in a way because I have heard the people who market Glassair and Lancair both built a KR-2 first then came out with their own design based on the construction methods used on the KR Aircraft. Both are a lot more money however I think the entire aircraft is pre-molded parts. Bob Stone ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Langford" To: "KRnet" Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 8:41 AM Subject: Re: KR>Rand/Robinson Engineering > Bob Stone wrote: > > >> have any of you guys who are on the KRNet and show the most > >> interest in > the KR line of aircraft ever thought of making her an offer to buy the > company<< > > Dr. Dean and I did exactly that about four years ago. Gave it a lot > of thought, came up with a plan, flew out to California, and made her > an offer > over lunch. We knew that with some effort at marketing, optimizing > suppliers, and using the Internet as a sales, marketing, and delivery tool, > we could turn it around and make it cost effective, and get a lot more > KRs under construction. > > I thought we made her an offer that she couldn't refuse, but it turns > out she thought it was worth about 10 times what we thought it was > worth, so we > left empty handed. It didn't take us but a few hours (and a few > beers) to realize that we had dodged a huge bullet, because buying > that company would > have meant inheriting the company's 25 years of liablity as well. > > It would be a very simple matter for somebody to come up with a > similar but > improved design, and market it as a new airplane, just as Stu and Ken > did from the Monoplane, and I have no doubt that it will happen soon > enough... > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL > N56ML at hiwaay.net > see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 14:12:50 -0600 From: "Bob Stone" To: "KRnet" Subject: Re: KR>Rand/Robinson Engineering Message-ID: <003701c40612$e5ff2c60$ba21f218@hot.rr.com> References: <000801c405de$381b2c40$ba21f218@hot.rr.com> <011f01c405df$904fc7d0$6400a8c0@toshibauser> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 2 Max, There was a response from Mark Langford to the effect, this has already been tried. He and Dr Dean made her an offer and she wanted 10 times the amount that they thought it was worth. If she does not start tending to business and taking care of her customers the so called very valuable business is just going to die a slow death and she will end up with nothing. Bob Stone ----- Original Message ----- From: "Max Hardberger" To: "KRnet" Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 8:05 AM Subject: Re: KR>Rand/Robinson Engineering > I would be interested in joining such a venture. > > Max Hardberger > > "have any of you guys who are on the KRNet and show the most interest > in the > KR line of aircraft ever thought of making her an offer to buy the company." > > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 12:11:33 -0800 From: "Wayne Israelsen" To: "KRnet" Subject: Re: KR>Rand/Robinson Engineering Message-ID: <009401c40612$b827a380$6701a8c0@HISPEEDWIRELESS.COM> References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 3 The station wagon still exists we just call it an SUV. Rings a bell doesn't it? . Trust me, you could CAD draw one, supply wonderful > drawings and advertise the fire out of it for less than the counter > offer. > > Neat idea but so was the station wagon. > > > Dana Overall > 1999 & 2000 National KR Gathering host > Richmond, KY i39 > RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" > Finish kit > 13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon. > http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero1.jpg > http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero3.jpg > http://rvflying.tripod.com/blackrudder.jpg > do not archive > > _________________________________________________________________ > Frustrated with dial-up? Lightning-fast Internet access for as low as > $29.95/month. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200360ave/direct/01/ > > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 13:28:51 -0700 From: cartera To: "Western Aircraft Supplies Ltd." , KR builders and pilots Subject: KR>Re: KR Wood Message-ID: <404E2903.3090307@cuug.ab.ca> In-Reply-To: <000901c40398$8e64cea0$4bc334d1@a7a04874> References: <40493E18.2040009@cuug.ab.ca> <000901c40398$8e64cea0$4bc334d1@a7a04874> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 4 Hello Mark, Yes, I am aware of all you say, simply because I know Jean so well and have gone though some of his experiences, if you look at my web site all the wood and resins for my KR came from Jean. I know I brought business to him, like I want to do for you and I am not asking for a penny. But, good spruce is hard to come by in the US. You may want to go into these sites: www.krnet.org and the forum at KRnet lots of guys talk about good wood that they can't find. Except maybe for Wick's who are old piano builders and have access to supplies but then again there is a long wait period. It might be an advantage to have kits set out for kr's, I don't mean already cut, but the list you may have gotten from Jean, just makes things easier when an order comes in. Jean was getting a good reputation with the kr guys, I know because they emailed me to tell me how satisfied and happy they were from my impute. So good luck, I know this can be a great success for you. And, maybe if I travel maybe will see you, because I have a good heli-pilot friend who flies in Nelson. Take Care! Western Aircraft Supplies Ltd. wrote: > Adrian: We are always looking to supply the best quality of wood > products to the custom builder but we only want to accept additional > customers when we know we have the quality raw material on hand. > Traditionally companies have either supplied low quality materials or > accepted orders (and sometimes money) without ever supplying anything; > we don't want to go there. We apologize for not responding to your > original e-mail but we were awaiting a log order before we contacted > you to ensure we had the capability to deliver; those logs disappeared > and never arrived. The market for high grade Sitka is incredibly > volatile and its often like looking for unobtanium, often taking 1 > year to receive a delivery. Enough whining; we currently have > reorganized and have expended considerable funds to purchase large > volumes of sitka but the delivery process is extremely slow. We travel > to the area and pick our trees while still standing in the forest, > truck them from the extreme north,sawmill them locally, dry and re-saw > the product prior to manufacture and shipment. If all goes to plan we > will have a 2 to 3 year supply on hand and be ready to meet market > supply by April. We live up to our company goal of quality products > and customer satisfaction and will only deliver products that meet > that goal. We appreciate your e-mail and hopefully you can appreciate > our situation. As soon as we have our hands on a quality supply we > will be certainly looking to service all custom builders. > Please keep in contact and we will make sure to keep you up to date. > Y.t. > Marc > Western Aircraft Supplies Ltd. > -- Adrian VE6AFY Mailto:cartera@cuug.ab.ca http://www.cuug.ab.ca/~cartera ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 13:34:00 -0800 From: "Max Hardberger" To: "KRnet" Subject: Re: KR>Rand/Robinson Engineering--Assumption of Liability Message-ID: <021e01c4061e$3c823bd0$6400a8c0@toshibauser> References: <000801c405de$381b2c40$ba21f218@hot.rr.com><011f01c405df$904fc7d0$6400a8c0@toshibauser> <003701c40612$e5ff2c60$ba21f218@hot.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 5 Regarding the assumption of "25 years of liability," and without offering legal advice, one would assume that if a company wanted to buy the rights to sell the plans to the KR series, and to build kits to these plans, the company would not "buy" Rand-Robinson Engineering, but would instead buy intellectual property (consisting of the plans) under the aegis of a new company. This company--to my mind, and without researching the issue--would not be assuming any liability for previously sold kits and plans, since there would be no connection between RR and the new company except as vendor and buyer of the IP rights. Of course, the new company would have liability for its own negligence in selling the plans, but this cannot be avoided in any case, regardless of their source. Regarding the similarities between the "original" KR aircraft and any aircraft sold by the new company, I would further assume that the new company would do its own research and testing, and would draw from the 25 years of experience that KR builders now have. This would almost certainly result in at least some changes to the original plans, an opinion reinforced by the many successful modifications that builders have made to these plans. The changes would probably be incremental rather than fundamental, but they may well result in a craft different-enough from the original KR's that it could be marketed under a new name, as has been noted in previous posts. With all that said, and with the understanding that RR may still be overvaluing its property, I believe that a viable aircraft project could be undertaken with the KR as its basis. RR should remember that it would not take much modification for the new company to be able successfully to defend itself against an IP suit. If RR really did want to sell the rights to the plans, it should negotiate accordingly. Max Hardberger Admitted in California Only ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:09:05 +1100 From: "Martindale Family" To: "KRnet" Subject: Re: KR>Angle of attack indicator Message-ID: <001d01c40623$39088c20$75a0fea9@athlon2400> References: <5.2.1.1.0.20040309081041.027e4740@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 6 Folks A friend of mine designed his own AoA indicator. Simply a 1/2" tube, sealed at the end with row of small holes drilled into it. The tube is mounted out of the fuselage wall on the extended chord line 8"or so ahead of the leading edge root and is parallel to it. He has the holes pointed down at right angles to the chord so that at zero AoA there is minimal pressure in the tube. As the wing/fuselage is rotated to provide an AoA so too does the tube, the holes present to the air flow and the pressure increases. A reading is obtained on some sort of sensitive pressure gauge (maybe just a low speed ASI) that has it's face recalibrated in arbitary units (he just uses numbers 1 to 5 and has the dial named " partner's pressure level"). The tube can be rotated to provide calibration (or desired absolute needle movement) and the readings noted as he approaches the stall. He flies this gauge on approach, more so than the ASI. John The Martindale Family 29 Jane Circuit TOORMINA NSW 2452 AUSTRALIA phone: 61 2 66584767 email: johnjane@chc.net.au ----- Original Message ----- From: "larry severson" To: "KRnet" Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 3:12 AM Subject: Re: KR>Dynon clarification > > >The only function you will not be able to use without adding an > >option is the Angle of Attack. The unit will provide all other > >functions with the expenditure of $1995 using the standard power > >supply in your airplane and the existing pitot/static system. If you > >have no use for the AOA, just use whatcha got. > > Forgive me, but the AOA is the most important feature that they add in > not only my opinion but also in a number of books on stalls, spins, > landing and > small a/c crashes. > > > Larry Severson > Fountain Valley, CA 92708 > (714) 968-9852 > larry2@socal.rr.com > > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 15:23:16 -0700 From: cartera To: KR builders and pilots , "Western Aircraft Supplies Ltd." Subject: KR>Error Message-ID: <404E43D4.3080902@cuug.ab.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 7 Hello Guys, Well I did it, my mistake when I tried to advise a good wood supplier, that's what happens when you double click something. Don't want to offend anyone but I screwed up, sorry. Now you know! Happy Flying! -- Adrian VE6AFY Mailto:cartera@cuug.ab.ca http://www.cuug.ab.ca/~cartera ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 14:44:40 -0800 From: "joe" To: "KRnet" Subject: Re: KR>Rand/Robinson Engineering--Assumption of Liability Message-ID: <003f01c40628$1bc57380$0a0110ac@o7p4e3> References: <000801c405de$381b2c40$ba21f218@hot.rr.com><011f01c405df$904fc7d0$6400a8c0@toshibauser><003701c40612$e5ff2c60$ba21f218@hot.rr.com> <021e01c4061e$3c823bd0$6400a8c0@toshibauser> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 8 There never is a connection between the previous manufacturer; plan seller or material supplier only to the previous liability. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Max Hardberger" To: "KRnet" Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 1:34 PM Subject: Re: KR>Rand/Robinson Engineering--Assumption of Liability > Regarding the assumption of "25 years of liability," and without > offering legal advice, one would assume that if a company wanted to > buy the rights to > sell the plans to the KR series, and to build kits to these plans, the > company would not "buy" Rand-Robinson Engineering, but would instead > buy intellectual property (consisting of the plans) under the aegis of > a new company. This company--to my mind, and without researching the issue--would > not be assuming any liability for previously sold kits and plans, > since there would be no connection between RR and the new company > except as vendor > and buyer of the IP rights. Of course, the new company would have liability > for its own negligence in selling the plans, but this cannot be > avoided in any case, regardless of their source. > > Regarding the similarities between the "original" KR aircraft and any > aircraft sold by the new company, I would further assume that the new > company would do its own research and testing, and would draw from the > 25 years of experience that KR builders now have. This would almost > certainly result in at least some changes to the original plans, an > opinion reinforced > by the many successful modifications that builders have made to these plans. > The changes would probably be incremental rather than fundamental, but they > may well result in a craft different-enough from the original KR's > that it could be marketed under a new name, as has been noted in > previous posts. > > With all that said, and with the understanding that RR may still be > overvaluing its property, I believe that a viable aircraft project > could be > undertaken with the KR as its basis. RR should remember that it would > not take much modification for the new company to be able successfully > to defend > itself against an IP suit. If RR really did want to sell the rights to > the plans, it should negotiate accordingly. > > Max Hardberger > Admitted in California Only > > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 14:56:36 -0800 From: "joe" To: "KRnet" Subject: Re: KR>Rand/Robinson Engineering--Assumption of Liability Message-ID: <004901c40629$c6938940$0a0110ac@o7p4e3> References: <000801c405de$381b2c40$ba21f218@hot.rr.com><011f01c405df$904fc7d0$6400a8c0@toshibauser><003701c40612$e5ff2c60$ba21f218@hot.rr.com><021e01c4061e$3c823bd0$6400a8c0@toshibauser> <003f01c40628$1bc57380$0a0110ac@o7p4e3> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 9 It is assumed, for previous builders, the new owner will be the primary contact for support and new supplier defacto(having in reality assumed that role) ergo upon test in court has the very real possibility of losing his shirt. ----- Original Message ----- From: "joe" To: "KRnet" Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 2:44 PM Subject: Re: KR>Rand/Robinson Engineering--Assumption of Liability > There never is a connection between the previous manufacturer; plan > seller or material supplier only to the previous liability. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Max Hardberger" > To: "KRnet" > Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 1:34 PM > Subject: Re: KR>Rand/Robinson Engineering--Assumption of Liability > > > > Regarding the assumption of "25 years of liability," and without offering > > legal advice, one would assume that if a company wanted to buy the rights > to > > sell the plans to the KR series, and to build kits to these plans, > > the company would not "buy" Rand-Robinson Engineering, but would > > instead buy intellectual property (consisting of the plans) under > > the aegis of a new company. This company--to my mind, and without > > researching the > issue--would > > not be assuming any liability for previously sold kits and plans, > > since there would be no connection between RR and the new company > > except as > vendor > > and buyer of the IP rights. Of course, the new company would have > liability > > for its own negligence in selling the plans, but this cannot be > > avoided in > > any case, regardless of their source. > > > > Regarding the similarities between the "original" KR aircraft and > > any aircraft sold by the new company, I would further assume that > > the new company would do its own research and testing, and would > > draw from the 25 > > years of experience that KR builders now have. This would almost certainly > > result in at least some changes to the original plans, an opinion > reinforced > > by the many successful modifications that builders have made to > > these > plans. > > The changes would probably be incremental rather than fundamental, > > but > they > > may well result in a craft different-enough from the original KR's > > that it > > could be marketed under a new name, as has been noted in previous > > posts. > > > > With all that said, and with the understanding that RR may still be > > overvaluing its property, I believe that a viable aircraft project > > could > be > > undertaken with the KR as its basis. RR should remember that it > > would not > > take much modification for the new company to be able successfully > > to > defend > > itself against an IP suit. If RR really did want to sell the rights > > to the > > plans, it should negotiate accordingly. > > > > Max Hardberger > > Admitted in California Only > > > > > > _______________________________________ > > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 15:19:19 -0800 From: "Max Hardberger" To: "KRnet" Subject: Re: KR>Rand/Robinson Engineering--Assumption of Liability Message-ID: <027b01c4062c$f2ec8110$6400a8c0@toshibauser> References: <000801c405de$381b2c40$ba21f218@hot.rr.com><011f01c405df$904fc7d0$6400a8c0@toshibauser><003701c40612$e5ff2c60$ba21f218@hot.rr.com><021e01c4061e$3c823bd0$6400a8c0@toshibauser><003f01c40628$1bc57380$0a0110ac@o7p4e3> <004901c40629$c6938940$0a0110ac@o7p4e3> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 10 "de facto"? "having in reality assumed that role"? "ergo upon test in court"? This is gibberish. Without having to go into the legal underpinnings of the matter, the new supplier (under the conditions listed in my last post) has no duty to previous builders and therefore no liability. Ergo he keeps his shirt. Max Hardberger Admitted in California Only > It is assumed, for previous builders, the new owner will be the > primary contact for support and new supplier defacto(having in reality > assumed that role) ergo upon test in > court has the very real possibility of losing his shirt. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "joe" > To: "KRnet" > Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 2:44 PM > Subject: Re: KR>Rand/Robinson Engineering--Assumption of Liability > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 17:44:55 -0600 From: "Mark Jones" To: "KR Net" Cc: Subject: KR>Aircraft Spruce & Specialty Message-ID: <005801c40630$86ab8100$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 11 Hello All, If you all recall, there has been some recent discussion about the = service from AS&S. Some of you had stated that your service from them = was not up to par and others expressed they had received nothing but = quality service from AS&S. Last Thursday night, I replied to a post from = a Net member who was not satisfied with the service from AS&S. In my = reply, I expressed my own personal dissatisfaction due to the fact I had = received an order that very day which was not correct. I ordered from = AS&S a RAC T4-5 servo system which clearly stated, in the AS&S catalog, = that a LED position indicator came with the unit. Upon opening the = package from AS&S there was no position indicator included. I decided = that with all the discussion going on about AS&S, I would send an e-mail = direct to Jim Irwin, President of Aircraft Spruce & Specialty. Jim Irwin = responded the very next morning and assured me that there was something = strange going on with this order and he would get to the bottom of it. = The manufacturer (RAC, Ray Allen Corp.) provided AS&S with the verbiage = to print in their catalog and told Jim Irwin that it indeed was correct. = However, if you visit the RAC web site, it clearly states there is no = position indicator compatible with the T4-5 nor is it recommended for = elevator use. When I discovered this on the RAC web site, I e-mailed Jim = Irwin the link and he in turn again contacted RAC to question the facts = on their web site. It turns out that RAC has a little pie in their face = concerning the facts presented to Jim Irwin and RAC has agreed to = correct the problem with AS&S and also has agreed to ship, direct to me = UPS Blue, the correct trim system for elevator use. The following = paragraph is copied direct from the last e-mail from Jim Irwin: "We spoke with Gary at Ray Allen Company regarding the incorrect = information they gave us for our catalog and website. RAC will be drop = shipping the T2-7A direct to you UPS Blue on Wednesday so you should = receive it on Friday. We will bill that unit on a net invoice and then = credit that invoice out when you return the first unit to us. Please = return it to our Corona, CA address and reference RMA #139773. If you = have any questions on the return process, please contact our Customer = Service Department. RAC will be providing us with the correct product = information to update our website." Jim Irwin has handled this with me in a very fast and professional = manner. He went to the source, found the problem, and corrected the = problem. Jim also kept me in the loop with several e-mails to let me = know how things were progressing. The service I received from Jim Irwin = was exceptional. I was also very impressed that Jim Irwin did not pass = this on to one of his customer service representatives yet handled it = himself. How many of you have had the President of a corporation give = you, the customer, such personal attention? Jim Irwin and Aircraft = Spruce & Specialty have left a lasting impression on me. They are truly = a quality operation. Thanks Jim, Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA=20 E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at =20 http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 18:57:20 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" To: "krnet@mylist.net" Subject: Re: KR>Carb heat Message-ID: <404E59E0.000006.03748@Computer> References: <000901c405ce$af1976e0$2c0101c0@ate.com> Content-Type: Text/Plain MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 12 RE: Opinions?=0D =0D Serge,=0D =0D That I have plenty of....=0D =0D I am concerned about not getting enough heat unless you come directly off= an exhaust pipe.=0D =0D Another concern that I have is with the sliding door, in that it may be prone to bind up, where a door pivoting on a post or hinge, most likely w= ill not. =0D =0D See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering=0D =0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =0D -------Original Message-------=0D =0D What I plan to do is:=0D - Make the pick-up point at the rear of the bottom baffling plate (this i= s=0D a VW engine, so there is a baffling plate running under the engine), on t= he=0D side, opening 90 degrees from the airflow. The 90 degrees is because I wa= nt=0D to avoid building high pressure in the carb.=0D - Close the pick-up point with a small sliding plate, that would be sprin= g=0D loaded. The control will be a push-pull cable, same as for a choke.=0D =0D =0D Serge Vidal ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 16:17:58 -0800 From: "joe" To: "KRnet" Subject: Re: KR>Rand/Robinson Engineering--Assumption of Liability Message-ID: <000701c40635$248a6720$0a0110ac@o7p4e3> References: <000801c405de$381b2c40$ba21f218@hot.rr.com><011f01c405df$904fc7d0$6400a8c0@toshibauser><003701c40612$e5ff2c60$ba21f218@hot.rr.com><021e01c4061e$3c823bd0$6400a8c0@toshibauser><003f01c40628$1bc57380$0a0110ac@o7p4e3><004901c40629$c6938940$0a0110ac@o7p4e3> <027b01c4062c$f2ec8110$6400a8c0@toshibauser> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 13 Excuse me, I didn't realize a possible test in court is not allowed. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Max Hardberger" To: "KRnet" Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 3:19 PM Subject: Re: KR>Rand/Robinson Engineering--Assumption of Liability > "de facto"? "having in reality assumed that role"? "ergo upon test in > court"? > > This is gibberish. Without having to go into the legal underpinnings > of the > matter, the new supplier (under the conditions listed in my last post) > has no duty to previous builders and therefore no liability. Ergo he > keeps his shirt. > > Max Hardberger > Admitted in California Only > > > > It is assumed, for previous builders, the new owner will be the > > primary contact for support and new supplier defacto(having in > > reality assumed that role) > > ergo upon test in > > court has the very real possibility of losing his shirt. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "joe" > > To: "KRnet" > > Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 2:44 PM > > Subject: Re: KR>Rand/Robinson Engineering--Assumption of Liability > > > > > > > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 16:21:35 -0800 From: "joe" To: "KRnet" Subject: Re: KR>Rand/Robinson Engineering--Assumption of Liability Message-ID: <001501c40635$a60e39c0$0a0110ac@o7p4e3> References: <000801c405de$381b2c40$ba21f218@hot.rr.com><011f01c405df$904fc7d0$6400a8c0@toshibauser><003701c40612$e5ff2c60$ba21f218@hot.rr.com><021e01c4061e$3c823bd0$6400a8c0@toshibauser><003f01c40628$1bc57380$0a0110ac@o7p4e3><004901c40629$c6938940$0a0110ac@o7p4e3> <027b01c4062c$f2ec8110$6400a8c0@toshibauser> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 14 Beech was sued for 6million and lost. ref: seat problem ----- Original Message ----- From: "Max Hardberger" To: "KRnet" Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 3:19 PM Subject: Re: KR>Rand/Robinson Engineering--Assumption of Liability > "de facto"? "having in reality assumed that role"? "ergo upon test in > court"? > > This is gibberish. Without having to go into the legal underpinnings > of the > matter, the new supplier (under the conditions listed in my last post) > has no duty to previous builders and therefore no liability. Ergo he > keeps his shirt. > > Max Hardberger > Admitted in California Only > > > > It is assumed, for previous builders, the new owner will be the > > primary contact for support and new supplier defacto(having in > > reality assumed that role) > > ergo upon test in > > court has the very real possibility of losing his shirt. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "joe" > > To: "KRnet" > > Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 2:44 PM > > Subject: Re: KR>Rand/Robinson Engineering--Assumption of Liability > > > > > > > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 16:30:39 -0800 From: "joe" To: "KRnet" Subject: Re: KR>Rand/Robinson Engineering--Assumption of Liability Message-ID: <002301c40636$ea0f7a20$0a0110ac@o7p4e3> References: <000801c405de$381b2c40$ba21f218@hot.rr.com><011f01c405df$904fc7d0$6400a8c0@toshibauser><003701c40612$e5ff2c60$ba21f218@hot.rr.com><021e01c4061e$3c823bd0$6400a8c0@toshibauser><003f01c40628$1bc57380$0a0110ac@o7p4e3><004901c40629$c6938940$0a0110ac@o7p4e3> <027b01c4062c$f2ec8110$6400a8c0@toshibauser> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 15 Since you use only factual statements, I will assume you are in the legal profession dispensing factual legal statements to viable questions sought as legal advice. However, noticeably missing are any actual legal references and/or examples. I prefer to err on the side of caution when reading your advice. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Max Hardberger" To: "KRnet" Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 3:19 PM Subject: Re: KR>Rand/Robinson Engineering--Assumption of Liability > "de facto"? "having in reality assumed that role"? "ergo upon test in > court"? > > This is gibberish. Without having to go into the legal underpinnings > of the > matter, the new supplier (under the conditions listed in my last post) > has no duty to previous builders and therefore no liability. Ergo he > keeps his shirt. > > Max Hardberger > Admitted in California Only > > > > It is assumed, for previous builders, the new owner will be the > > primary contact for support and new supplier defacto(having in > > reality assumed that role) > > ergo upon test in > > court has the very real possibility of losing his shirt. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "joe" > > To: "KRnet" > > Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 2:44 PM > > Subject: Re: KR>Rand/Robinson Engineering--Assumption of Liability > > > > > > > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 16:36:23 -0800 From: "joe" To: "KRnet" Subject: Re: KR>Aircraft Spruce & Specialty Message-ID: <005d01c40637$b7121500$0a0110ac@o7p4e3> References: <005801c40630$86ab8100$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 16 I thought so. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Jones" To: "KR Net" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 3:44 PM Subject: KR>Aircraft Spruce & Specialty Hello All, If you all recall, there has been some recent discussion about the service from AS&S. Some of you had stated that your service from them was not up to par and others expressed they had received nothing but quality service from AS&S. Last Thursday night, I replied to a post from a Net member who was not satisfied with the service from AS&S. In my reply, I expressed my own personal dissatisfaction due to the fact I had received an order that very day which was not correct. I ordered from AS&S a RAC T4-5 servo system which clearly stated, in the AS&S catalog, that a LED position indicator came with the unit. Upon opening the package from AS&S there was no position indicator included. I decided that with all the discussion going on about AS&S, I would send an e-mail direct to Jim Irwin, President of Aircraft Spruce & Specialty. Jim Irwin responded the very next morning and assured me that there was something strange going on with this order and he would get to the bottom of it. The manufacturer (RAC, Ray Allen Corp.) provided AS&S with the verbiage to print in their catalog and told Jim Irwin that it indeed was correct. However, if you visit the RAC web site, it clearly states there is no position indicator compatible with the T4-5 nor is it recommended for elevator use. When I discovered this on the RAC web site, I e-mailed Jim Irwin the link and he in turn again contacted RAC to question the facts on their web site. It turns out that RAC has a little pie in their face concerning the facts presented to Jim Irwin and RAC has agreed to correct the problem with AS&S and also has agreed to ship, direct to me UPS Blue, the correct trim system for elevator use. The following paragraph is copied direct from the last e-mail from Jim Irwin: "We spoke with Gary at Ray Allen Company regarding the incorrect information they gave us for our catalog and website. RAC will be drop shipping the T2-7A direct to you UPS Blue on Wednesday so you should receive it on Friday. We will bill that unit on a net invoice and then credit that invoice out when you return the first unit to us. Please return it to our Corona, CA address and reference RMA #139773. If you have any questions on the return process, please contact our Customer Service Department. RAC will be providing us with the correct product information to update our website." Jim Irwin has handled this with me in a very fast and professional manner. He went to the source, found the problem, and corrected the problem. Jim also kept me in the loop with several e-mails to let me know how things were progressing. The service I received from Jim Irwin was exceptional. I was also very impressed that Jim Irwin did not pass this on to one of his customer service representatives yet handled it himself. How many of you have had the President of a corporation give you, the customer, such personal attention? Jim Irwin and Aircraft Spruce & Specialty have left a lasting impression on me. They are truly a quality operation. Thanks Jim, Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html _______________________________________ to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 20:41:32 EST From: FIXERJONES@aol.com To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>kr2 (Steve Jones) Message-ID: <1cb.1ba44ef3.2d7fcc4c@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 17 i'm tryin to finish up puttin lites in for a first nite flight. if it's done,,i'll be down to naples & we'll talk some more,,,steve jones n212kr ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 20:49:33 -0600 From: "Jim Faughn" To: "'KRnet'" Subject: RE: KR>Rand/Robinson Engineering Message-ID: <000001c4064a$522f61c0$13d75540@jfaughn> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 18 I've wondered why Jeanette wasn't interested in the possible sale/transfer or whatever you would want to call it, of the business. After all the plane is a good design, there are people that would like to help and many other reasons that I could see. In addition to the mention of an offer presented on this list, I am also aware of other offers that have been made over the years. At first I couldn't figure out why she wouldn't want to accept. Then I tried to think about it from her perspective. If you make the assumption that she sells 40 or 50 sets of plans a year, a number of parts and other portions of kits regardless of how small you can make the assumption that the profit in the worst case is in the range of $20-30,000. Next figure this is her retirement income and determine what investment it would take to replace this. Just for fun, lets agree on 25,000 per year. Next, given the best financial advice I've read and heard, you would figure that you should only plan on your investment's in the near future earning between 6 & 7%. So what figure would it take to earn 25,000 per year? I come up with about $420,000. Of course you would end up with the purchase price still in tact at the end but the point is very simple. I wouldn't pay anywhere near that much money for the business. I don't have the numbers that were offered but I hope this puts what I would think would be her point out for others to consider. I have never discussed this with Jeanette nor do I consider myself a person to price a business. I have just been thinking about her perspective and watching a pretty neat airplane decrease in popularity. Just my 1/2 cents worth. I've enjoyed my plane and all the people that go with it. Without Ken and Rand Robinson my life would have never been so rich but like many, I too wish it would continue to be promoted and updated. Jim Jim Faughn 4323D Laclede Ave. St. Louis, MO 63108 (314)652-7659 Email - sub @ for "at" jfaughn "at" socket.net Web Site http://jfaughn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 22:36:10 -0500 From: Boeing757mech1@aol.com To: krnet@mylist.net (KRnet) Subject: Re: KR>Aircraft Spruce & Specialty Message-ID: <575C9CDF.54BA8EDD.83FC6405@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: list Message: 19 In a message dated 3/9/2004 7:36:23 PM Eastern Standard Time, fegbdf@earthlink.net writes: > Please return it to our Corona, CA > address and reference RMA #139773. If you have any > questions on the return > process, please contact our Customer Service Department. You had better send it certified. I did the same thing with 80 bolts and also had to get Jim Irwin involved when they said only half of the bolts were in the box. I think Jim handles the problems just fine, Its the rest of his staff that keep making mistakes that I pay for. I will only buy from them if I cannot find it anywhere else. Chris Theroux Gilbert, Az ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 335, Issue 2 ************************************* ================================== ABC Amber Outlook Converter v4.20 Trial version ==================================