From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net To: John Bouyea Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 345, Issue 1 Date: 3/19/2004 11:53:04 AM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Flutter (joe) 2. Re: Flutter (joe) 3. Balancing (larry severson) 4. Email grading (joe) 5. Re: Balancing (Phillip Matheson) 6. elevator balance! (Ross Evans) 7. Re: Flutter (Steve and Lori McGee) 8. aileron Balancing arm (larry flesner) 9. speed test / tailwheel tip (larry flesner) 10. elevator balance! (larry flesner) 11. Nyloseal fittings (Martindale Family) 12. Re: Aileron deflection/spacer (Colin & Bev Rainey) 13. Re: Balancing (Ross Youngblood) 14. Re: Balancing (Dean Cooper) 15. Re: Nyloseal fittings (Ron Butterfield) 16. Fuel (Eric Evezard) 17. RE: Nyloseal fittings (Ron Freiberger) 18. Re: Balancing (Allen G. Wiesner) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 12:16:03 -0800 From: "joe" To: "KRnet" Subject: Re: KR>Flutter Message-ID: <000b01c40d25$d66aefe0$0a0110ac@o7p4e3> References: <000a01c40d22$9fb67300$dd64a8c0@homedesktop> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 1 Dear Steve, I know when I'm licked. However my comments are from real life experiences. Somewhat different the aileron control surfaces and the elevator trim tabs were repaired with bondo which deformed them during high speed flight. The report results read "malformation". The other comment I thought to be part of every aviators curriculum that exceed Vne and you become a test pilot. PS The aircraft involved was my comanche 250. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen Jacobs" To: "'KRnet'" Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 11:52 AM Subject: KR>Flutter > I respect airplanes as much as I love them, so when they talk to me I > listen. Not many things in airplanes scare me, but when they do - I > feel compelled to tell fellow aviators. > > We have talked about carb ice - I have told you what I know and I will > be happy if my input helps one person avoid a bad day. > > Carb ice (at worst), will turn your airplane into a glider - gliders > still fly. Flutter is something very different - it could leave you > sitting on a wingless brick. Not many of the folks that have > experienced flutter are still around - it is difficult to describe the > suddenness and violence of this phenomenon. > > My concern about flutter has resulted in 15 years of listening, > reading, testing and trying. I do not wish to enter into debate on > any of this - take it or leave it: (Mark, Dana & Larry exempted) > > This is KRnet, so my comment applies to everything we are likely to > address - however, I would apply the same rationale to a Pietenpol. > > IN EVERY CASE > > 1. Mass balance (statically) all control surfaces. This is not > critical to the nth degree - just ensure that EVERY completed control > surface sort of "hangs level" with the pushrod disconnected. Yes, the > rudder is a problem - figure a way to turn the bird on its side - or > do the VStab before you mount it. I prefer distributed balance weight > where possible - not all in one place. Aerodynamic balance tabs are > great - they provide one more place to put some of the counter weight. > > Get the ballast as far fwd (of the hinge-line) as possible to reduce > the amount required. All KR control surfaces are aft of CG, so keep > added weight to the essential minimum - it affects CG. > > 2. Zero slop in the control linkages and hinges (including trim tab). > > 3. Perfect alignment between the moving control surface and the fixed > surface - avoid a step-down between the fixed and the trailing > (movable) surface - this introduces turbulence at the TE of the fixed > surface, i.e. turbulence over the control surface - I believe that > this provokes flutter. > > If in doubt, make the moving surface a tad thicker than the fixed > surface. > > There has been good advice from some of the netters - viz: > > = apples and oranges are being mixed here > = Flutter can happen at any speed > = more factors limiting the Vne than elevator flutter > = Flutter can destroy an aircraft in flight! > > > I have also seen information from other netters that makes no sense at > all - viz.: > > = However, any malformation of the elevator, depends on the > malformation. Exceeding Vne coupled with excess loading factor and > all bets are off. > > > Take care > Steve > askies(At)microlink.zm > > > > > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 13:03:55 -0800 From: "joe" To: "KRnet" Subject: Re: KR>Flutter Message-ID: <001901c40d2c$866e1560$0a0110ac@o7p4e3> References: <000a01c40d22$9fb67300$dd64a8c0@homedesktop> <000b01c40d25$d66aefe0$0a0110ac@o7p4e3> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 2 To all concerned about flutter: I am going to quote from a professional study regarding the Lancair: "Unlike control surface flutter, which is typically managed by counterweighting the surfaces and/or modifying their control actuation systems, the flutter identified here is with the fuselage itself,". The excerpt is from a study which cab be found at: http://www.lancair.net/flutter.html Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: "joe" To: "KRnet" Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 12:16 PM Subject: Re: KR>Flutter > Dear Steve, > I know when I'm licked. However my comments are > from real life experiences. Somewhat different the aileron control surfaces > and the elevator trim tabs were repaired > with bondo which deformed them during high speed flight. > The report results read "malformation". The other comment I thought > to be > part of every aviators curriculum > that exceed Vne and you become a test pilot. > > PS The aircraft involved was my comanche 250. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Stephen Jacobs" > To: "'KRnet'" > Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 11:52 AM > Subject: KR>Flutter > > > > I respect airplanes as much as I love them, so when they talk to me > > I listen. Not many things in airplanes scare me, but when they do - > > I feel compelled to tell fellow aviators. > > > > We have talked about carb ice - I have told you what I know and I > > will be happy if my input helps one person avoid a bad day. > > > > Carb ice (at worst), will turn your airplane into a glider - gliders > > still fly. Flutter is something very different - it could leave you > > sitting on a wingless brick. Not many of the folks that have > > experienced flutter are still around - it is difficult to describe > > the suddenness and violence of this phenomenon. > > > > My concern about flutter has resulted in 15 years of listening, > > reading, testing and trying. I do not wish to enter into debate on > > any of this - take it or leave it: (Mark, Dana & Larry exempted) > > > > This is KRnet, so my comment applies to everything we are likely to > > address - however, I would apply the same rationale to a Pietenpol. > > > > IN EVERY CASE > > > > 1. Mass balance (statically) all control surfaces. This is not > > critical to the nth degree - just ensure that EVERY completed > > control surface sort of "hangs level" with the pushrod disconnected. > > Yes, the rudder is a problem - figure a way to turn the bird on its > > side - or do the VStab before you mount it. I prefer distributed > > balance weight where possible - not all in one place. Aerodynamic > > balance tabs are great - they provide one more place to put some of > > the counter weight. > > > > Get the ballast as far fwd (of the hinge-line) as possible to reduce > > the amount required. All KR control surfaces are aft of CG, so keep > > added weight to the essential minimum - it affects CG. > > > > 2. Zero slop in the control linkages and hinges (including trim > > tab). > > > > 3. Perfect alignment between the moving control surface and the > > fixed surface - avoid a step-down between the fixed and the trailing > > (movable) surface - this introduces turbulence at the TE of the > > fixed surface, i.e. turbulence over the control surface - I believe > > that this provokes flutter. > > > > If in doubt, make the moving surface a tad thicker than the fixed > > surface. > > > > There has been good advice from some of the netters - viz: > > > > = apples and oranges are being mixed here > > = Flutter can happen at any speed > > = more factors limiting the Vne than elevator flutter > > = Flutter can destroy an aircraft in flight! > > > > > > I have also seen information from other netters that makes no sense > > at all - viz.: > > > > = However, any malformation of the elevator, depends on the > > malformation. Exceeding Vne coupled with excess loading factor and > > all bets are off. > > > > > > Take care > > Steve > > askies(At)microlink.zm > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________ > > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 13:32:28 -0800 From: larry severson To: KRnet Subject: KR>Balancing Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20040318133002.028352d0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> In-Reply-To: <20040318033224.92331.qmail@web42003.mail.yahoo.com> References: <000601c40c4b$dae2e580$ba21f218@hot.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 3 Page 89 shows the aileron balance arm. Nowhere can I find the length of the arm. What should it be? Page 95 shows a canopy latch & center pin diagram. Does anyone know what it means, and how to use it? Larry Severson Fountain Valley, CA 92708 (714) 968-9852 larry2@socal.rr.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 13:48:25 -0800 From: "joe" To: "KRnet" Subject: KR>Email grading Message-ID: <004201c40d32$be05e600$0a0110ac@o7p4e3> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 4 I have noticed from time to time emails from persons claiming not to be experts and then proceeding to dish out expert advice as if it were industry studied and accepted, without ever giving reference to any specific source. Some even have the audacity to grade and judge other emails. Setting themself up as ultimate authority. I am Joe C. and any specific advice I give is always followed by = specific reference or is blatantly obvious to most. Thanks for listening JoeFrom ronevogt@cox.net Thu Mar 18 15:24:37 2004 Received: from fed1mtao03.cox.net ([68.6.19.242]) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1B46sO-000CSa-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:24:36 -0800 Received: from smtp.west.cox.net ([172.18.180.55]) by fed1mtao03.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.08 201-253-122-130-108-20031117) with SMTP id <20040318231721.HNFG673.fed1mtao03.cox.net@smtp.west.cox.net> for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 18:17:21 -0500 From: To: krnet@mylist.net Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 18:17:23 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20040318231721.HNFG673.fed1mtao03.cox.net@smtp.west.cox.net> Subject: KR>Joe C. X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KRnet List-Id: KRnet List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: I demand to see a birth certificate. Otherwise, how do I really know that you are Joe C.? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:38:51 +1100 From: "Phillip Matheson" To: "KRnet" Subject: Re: KR>Balancing Message-ID: <005001c40d42$2b7b25b0$b496dccb@StationW2k04> References: <000601c40c4b$dae2e580$ba21f218@hot.rr.com> <5.2.1.1.0.20040318133002.028352d0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 5 Page 89 shows the aileron balance arm. Nowhere can I find the length of the arm. What should it be? --------------- Larry I'm at work , but pretty sure my control plan, (not KR Plan) says 5 inches I'll double check for you. Phillip Matheson matheson@dodo.com.au Australia VH PKR See our engines and kits at. http://www.vw-engines.com/ http://www.homebuilt-aviation.com/ See my KR at Mark Jones web http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/pmkr2.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 11:06:52 +1000 From: "Ross Evans" To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR>elevator balance! Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 6 HI guys thanks for the feed back! I have just asked the questions to get some oppions of other builders as I am no engineer and really want to fly and safely. I have been told by different fellows that elevator balancing is needed and have emphasised the need with more power but yes flutter can happen at any speed and I have seen some kr's that are flying with no balancing I am putting in a more powerful engine and have been told that flutter could be a problem at higher speeds that is why I have asked about the subject as I want to fly for a long time not a short stint. My plane had been built straight to the plans and was going to have an 0200 but they are quite a dear engine to get and overhaul so I looked around and got a little more power but I was told to by the previous builder balance that elevator before u fly it! I am going to balance it for piece of mind! I am going to use a piece of chromolly on each side of the elevator and attach it to the elevator. How have other's done it that are flying I am looking to have mine looking like marty roberts plane how did he do it. I don't have his email address and would love to talk to him about how he did his! cheers Ross _________________________________________________________________ What's your house worth? Click here to find out: http://www.ninemsn.realestate.com.au ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 19:15:52 -0600 From: "Steve and Lori McGee" To: "KRnet" Subject: Re: KR>Flutter Message-ID: <004001c40d4f$b90c8740$0202a8c0@lori8v5h2xi9m3> References: <000a01c40d22$9fb67300$dd64a8c0@homedesktop><000b01c40d25$d66aefe0$0a0110ac@o7p4e3> <001901c40d2c$866e1560$0a0110ac@o7p4e3> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 7 Thank you for that information! That was very enlightening. This fuse I am finishing is close to the Lancair style of construction (AKA Dr Dean) with also a large tail! I had been pondering whether to make a completely removable Rear turtle deck or just have access panels. You just made up my mind and may have saved me at the same time! Thanks Joe! Steve McGee Endeavor Wi. USA Building a KR2S widened. lmcgee@maqs.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "joe" To: "KRnet" Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 3:03 PM Subject: Re: KR>Flutter > To all concerned about flutter: > I am going to quote from a professional study regarding the > Lancair: "Unlike control surface flutter, which is typically managed by > counterweighting the surfaces and/or > modifying their control actuation systems, the flutter identified here > is with the fuselage itself,". > The excerpt is from a study which cab be found at: > http://www.lancair.net/flutter.html > Joe > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "joe" > To: "KRnet" > Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 12:16 PM > Subject: Re: KR>Flutter > > > > Dear Steve, > > I know when I'm licked. However my comments are > > from real life experiences. Somewhat different the aileron control > surfaces > > and the elevator trim tabs were repaired > > with bondo which deformed them during high speed flight. > > The report results read "malformation". The other comment I > > thought to > be > > part of every aviators curriculum > > that exceed Vne and you become a test pilot. > > > > PS The aircraft involved was my comanche 250. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Stephen Jacobs" > > To: "'KRnet'" > > Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 11:52 AM > > Subject: KR>Flutter > > > > > > > I respect airplanes as much as I love them, so when they talk to > > > me I listen. Not many things in airplanes scare me, but when they > > > do - I feel compelled to tell fellow aviators. > > > > > > We have talked about carb ice - I have told you what I know and I > > > will be happy if my input helps one person avoid a bad day. > > > > > > Carb ice (at worst), will turn your airplane into a glider - > > > gliders still fly. Flutter is something very different - it could > > > leave you sitting on a wingless brick. Not many of the folks that > > > have experienced flutter are still around - it is difficult to > > > describe the suddenness and violence of this phenomenon. > > > > > > My concern about flutter has resulted in 15 years of listening, reading, > > > testing and trying. I do not wish to enter into debate on any of this - > > > take it or leave it: (Mark, Dana & Larry exempted) > > > > > > This is KRnet, so my comment applies to everything we are likely > > > to address - however, I would apply the same rationale to a > > > Pietenpol. > > > > > > IN EVERY CASE > > > > > > 1. Mass balance (statically) all control surfaces. This is not > > > critical to the nth degree - just ensure that EVERY completed > > > control surface sort of "hangs level" with the pushrod > > > disconnected. Yes, the rudder is a problem - figure a way to turn > > > the bird on its side - or do > > > the VStab before you mount it. I prefer distributed balance > > > weight where possible - not all in one place. Aerodynamic balance > > > tabs are great - they provide one more place to put some of the > > > counter weight. > > > > > > Get the ballast as far fwd (of the hinge-line) as possible to > > > reduce the > > > amount required. All KR control surfaces are aft of CG, so keep > > > added weight to the essential minimum - it affects CG. > > > > > > 2. Zero slop in the control linkages and hinges (including trim > > > tab). > > > > > > 3. Perfect alignment between the moving control surface and the > > > fixed surface - avoid a step-down between the fixed and the > > > trailing (movable) > > > surface - this introduces turbulence at the TE of the fixed > > > surface, i.e. turbulence over the control surface - I believe that > > > this provokes > > > flutter. > > > > > > If in doubt, make the moving surface a tad thicker than the fixed > > > surface. > > > > > > There has been good advice from some of the netters - viz: > > > > > > = apples and oranges are being mixed here > > > = Flutter can happen at any speed > > > = more factors limiting the Vne than elevator flutter > > > = Flutter can destroy an aircraft in flight! > > > > > > > > > I have also seen information from other netters that makes no > > > sense at all - viz.: > > > > > > = However, any malformation of the elevator, depends on the > > > malformation. Exceeding Vne coupled with excess loading factor > > > and all > > > bets are off. > > > > > > > > > Take care > > > Steve > > > askies(At)microlink.zm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________ > > > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to > > > KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at > > > http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > > > > _______________________________________ > > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 19:14:44 -0600 From: larry flesner To: KRnet Subject: KR>aileron Balancing arm Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040318191444.007afa40@pop.midwest.net> In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20040318133002.028352d0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> References: <20040318033224.92331.qmail@web42003.mail.yahoo.com> <000601c40c4b$dae2e580$ba21f218@hot.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 8 >Page 89 shows the aileron balance arm. Nowhere can I find the length of >the >arm. What should it be? >Larry Severson +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Generally speaking you'd want it as long as possible so as to use as little weight as possible. In our case the limiting factor is the arm/weight hitting the rear spar in it's travel. With that in mind I built mine to come withing 1/4 inch or so (weight and arm) of the spar. I'd have to measure it to know how long mine is but every airplane could be different depending on the aileron cutout, hinging, etc. Speaking of aileron weight arms, if it's not to late in you building process, you may want to make them out of steel instead of alum. The alum arms have been known to crack/break/fall off. I may have a friend of mine that does alum welding reinforce mine with some gussets. Hopefully someone will have the answer on the latch thing. My plans set is out in the truck. Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 19:14:54 -0600 From: larry flesner To: KRnet Subject: KR>speed test / tailwheel tip Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040318191454.0087c5d0@pop.midwest.net> In-Reply-To: <000a01c40d22$9fb67300$dd64a8c0@homedesktop> References: <3.0.6.32.20040318071442.0088a600@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 9 I got in some flight testing today and also some crosswind TO & L practice. Eight to twelve mph at 60 to 90 degrees to the runway. The KR seems to handle it better than the pilot. It did everything I asked it to do without hesitation. An eight direction speed run averaged out to 156 statute mph as measured on the GPS. I'm still running without wheel pants and pulling those 30" Diehl gear legs with 600X6 tires through the air so I guess that's respectable. That should put me in the 165 mph range with pants and that's as good as I was expecting with my raised canopy etc. On one flight I was passing over the airport at 3500 feet with the wind on my tail and the GPS was reading 190 -191-190- 191 . AWSOME !! I did get in some climb and glide test but not completed yet so I'll wait to share the results. I was disappointed at first on the climb tests as eariler test indicated a 900+ fpm rate and today I was getting 750 to 800 fpm at some speeds. It latter struck me that I was using a higher altitude today than last time. I was timing the climb from 3000 to 3500 today so I had three inches less manifold pressure then at airport elevation. I guess I need to get all the climb test in on one flight to eliminate the variables so I can chart them. I'm still impressed with the glide. With standard wings and my bird heavy, engine idle at about 700 rpm, I was getting 535 fpm decent at 70 mph indicated. It was so quite and smooth it was like suspended animation! A tip on tailwheel handling on the ground. I think I heard this somewhere before but found myself doing it without thinking about it. When you can't see over the cowl, the earth horizon will intersect the side of the cowl at some level. Early in the T O roll and on landing after the tail is down, don't try to maintain directional control by looking at anything in the first several thousand feet ahead of the airplane. Look at the horizon intersecting the cowl and you will detect any movement of the nose instantly. Keep the horizon from moving and the airplane will track straight as an arrow. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 19:17:45 -0600 From: larry flesner To: KRnet Subject: KR>elevator balance! Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040318191745.0087d340@pop.midwest.net> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 10 How have other's done it that are flying I am looking to have mine >looking like marty roberts plane how did he do it. I don't have his >email >address and would love to talk to him about how he did his! >cheers >Ross +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Marty Roberts would be very hard to get in touch with but I'd give you ten to one odds that Dan Diehl would know and you could reach him almost any time at Diehl Aeronautical. Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 18:55:25 +1100 From: "Martindale Family" To: "KRnet" Subject: KR>Nyloseal fittings Message-ID: <001701c40d87$b5133f20$75a0fea9@athlon2400> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 11 Hi folks I recently connected my manifold pressure gauge up using 1/8" Nyloseal = tube (22NSR) to a 1/8" NPT thread adaptor. The adaptor is a brass Poly-Flo fitting (Aircraft Spruce P/N = 268P-02x02). This fitting is used on 1/8" tube since Nyloseal = equilivents are not available for tube less than 1/4". These adaptors used to comprise a collar or olive that is compressed and = bites into the tube as the clamp nut is tightened. They can therefore be = removed simply by undoing the nut and if necessary cutting off the old = olive and replacing it with a new one. They are good for both vacuum and = pressure. However, the new generation fittings I received from AS (stamped "Alkon = 1/8") require the tube to be merely pushed in whence it becomes locked = by "one-way teeth" and I presume air pressure against some sort of seal. = There is no clamping nut or olive. Unfortunately these fittings leak past the "teeth"/ seal when under = vacuum in my manifold system leading to high idle MP (19"). My problem = is that I cannot get them apart to get the tube out prior to replacing = them. I could cut the tube and dispose of the fittings but then I will = need to reroute new tube (as the old will be too short) which is a = hassle given I've only just resealed my firewall and completed cable = tying the existing one. So: 1) What is the secret in removing the tube from these new fangled = fittings? 2) Do not use them in vacuum situations? Why do they have to change things....the old olives worked just fine. Ho = Hum must be getting old. 50 years coming up soon. Also does anyone know what the difference is between 1/8 BSP (Churchill) = and 1/8 NPT (Eisenhower)? Must be bugger all at this dimension!! John =20 The Martindale Family 29 Jane Circuit TOORMINA NSW 2452 AUSTRALIA phone: 61 2 66584767 email: johnjane@chc.net.auFrom crainey1@cfl.rr.com Fri Mar 19 00:17:01 2004 Received: from ms-smtp-01-smtplb.tampabay.rr.com ([65.32.5.131] helo=ms-smtp-01.tampabay.rr.com) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1)id 1B4FBd-000IeJ-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 00:17:01 -0800 Received: from RaineyDay (153.239.8.67.cfl.rr.com [67.8.239.153]) by ms-smtp-01.tampabay.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id i2J89hDL013874 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 03:09:45 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001d01c40d89$d089d0f0$99ef0843@RaineyDay> From: "Colin & Bev Rainey" To: "KRnet" References: <001401c40879$d05e9120$99ef0843@RaineyDay> <001a01c4090f$169772c0$6601a8c0@mdgwd52jlrmc3l> Subject: Re: KR>Aileron deflection Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 03:11:42 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KRnet List-Id: KRnet List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: Chris Thanks for the information. I will be investigating this on Saturday. I will let you know. Colin & Bev Rainey KR2(td) N96TA Sanford, FL crainey1@cfl.rr.com or crbrn96ta@hotmail.com http://kr-builder.org/Colin/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 03:15:15 -0500 From: "Colin & Bev Rainey" To: "KRnet" Subject: Re: KR>Aileron deflection/spacer Message-ID: <002401c40d8a$4ee401f0$99ef0843@RaineyDay> References: <001401c40879$d05e9120$99ef0843@RaineyDay> <3.0.6.32.20040313213607.007b69f0@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 12 Larry Sounds good about using the spacers. I may go ahead and add some just to make the pushrod come into better alignment, thus get full travel also. I'm also measuring the bellcranks for accuracy this weekend. Colin & Bev Rainey KR2(td) N96TA Sanford, FL crainey1@cfl.rr.com or crbrn96ta@hotmail.com http://kr-builder.org/Colin/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 07:23:13 -0800 From: Ross Youngblood To: KRnet Subject: Re: KR>Balancing Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20040318133002.028352d0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> References: <000601c40c4b$dae2e580$ba21f218@hot.rr.com> <5.2.1.1.0.20040318133002.028352d0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-15 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: list Message: 13 Page 89. The trick (I discovered) with the aileron counter balance, is not to make it TOO long. TOO long is defined as the point at which your counter balance hole hits the AFT SPAR (Bummer). This is dependant on where you attached your aft aileron spar. So what you end up doing, is make the arm too long, then cut to fit. Trouble is, you won't know where this is, if you have PAINTED your wing before you cut the hole. Moral of the story.. do the counterweight arm install before painting... final balancing after painting. Also... from preflighting lots of C-152's you can see that Cessna uses small spanwise triangular weights just FWD of the hinge line. This is much more attractive than our giant lead arm... but weighs more. I'm thinking that 2 counterweight arms might be better than one, to distribute the weight. I tapered my counterweights so that most of the weight was towards the end of the counterweight arm... still I needed lots of weight, as I made my ailerons out of LEAD filled fiberglass. Page95. Well, you drill a hole in your longeron, and in your canopy sill plywood/spruce. Then the pin goes through both. (The pin is a 3/16 bolt tapered, and use a AN970 washer on the fuselage side, so the tapered bolt doesn't gouge the spruce when you miss the hole. I installed all this per plans, then ripped it out for another canopy latch solution... which I have also recently removed. So I'm on canopy latch design #3. Can you say "unhappy" with the RR design? Thats me. -- Ross On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 13:32:28 -0800, larry severson wrote: > Page 89 shows the aileron balance arm. Nowhere can I find the length > of > the arm. What should it be? > > Page 95 shows a canopy latch & center pin diagram. Does anyone know > what > it means, and how to use it? > > Larry Severson > Fountain Valley, CA 92708 > (714) 968-9852 > larry2@socal.rr.com _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html -- Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 11:19:29 -0500 From: "Dean Cooper" To: "KRnet" Subject: Re: KR>Balancing Message-ID: <045101c40dcd$f4f57400$0502a8c0@office> References: <000601c40c4b$dae2e580$ba21f218@hot.rr.com><5.2.1.1.0.20040318133002.028352d0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 14 Ross wrote: >Also... from preflighting lots of C-152's you can see that Cessna uses small spanwise triangular weights just FWD of the hinge line. This is much more attractive than our giant lead arm... but weighs more. Ross, Netters: Along the same lines and stealing from Tony's books, I was thinking about this design: http://www.geocities.com/djramccoop1/Aileron_Balance.html But, didn't know how much extra weight it would require or what the offset in less drag would be (in addition to the reduced risk of falling off :-) Any thoughts on this design? Dean Cooper Jacksonville, FL Email me at dean_cooper@bellsouth.net See my KR project at www.geocities.com/djramccoop1/KR2_Home.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 12:24:11 -0500 From: Ron Butterfield To: KRnet Subject: Re: KR>Nyloseal fittings Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.0.20040319122138.01bb8ec0@pop.mebtel.net> In-Reply-To: <001701c40d87$b5133f20$75a0fea9@athlon2400> References: <001701c40d87$b5133f20$75a0fea9@athlon2400> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 15 At 02:55 AM 3/19/04, you wrote: >Also does anyone know what the difference is between 1/8 BSP >(Churchill) >and 1/8 NPT (Eisenhower)? Must be bugger all at this dimension!! I can't help with the other questions, but this one I can (I work for a UK company in the States). NPT is the US standard for pipe thread. BSP is British Standard Pipe, and comes in two flavors, tapered & parallel (BSPP & BSPT). A more detailed explanation can be found here: http://www.mcmaster.com/asp/enter.asp?pagenum=3 Regards, RonB Mebane, NC ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 20:50:08 +0200 From: "Eric Evezard" To: "KR NEWS" Subject: KR>Fuel Message-ID: <009601c40de3$66ea87c0$1bce07c4@user> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 16 Some time ago while on holiday in Australia,leaded fuels were taken off = the market.However a LS fuel (lead substitute) could be bought at the = pumps.While there I was taken on sightseeing trips in a weight shift = microlite,and it was brought to notice that there was a possibility that = a precipitate could form in fuel tanks exposed to sunlight.This = precipitate could block filters,jets ,etc.and it was suggested that the = typical microlite translucent fuel tanks be darkened to prevent this.Car = tanks of course were all in the dark.It appears only LS fuel was = affected.I dont know the situation now but found this very interesting. Some say that using 100 LL Avgas in VW engines shortens life and causes = scouring .Can adding "upper cylinder" lubricants to the Avgas help ? Best Regards, Eric Evezard, South Africa ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 14:01:49 -0500 From: "Ron Freiberger" To: "KRnet" Subject: RE: KR>Nyloseal fittings Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <001701c40d87$b5133f20$75a0fea9@athlon2400> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 17 You don't need that kind of quality for vacuum lines. Auto stores sell rubber tubing that's 100% suitable. Get some barbed fittings and press the tubing onto them. Also, you can splice the existing lines with rubber tubing pushed onto the nylaflow tubing. Keep it simple, save time for the hard part. ;o) Ron Freiberger mailto: rfreiberger@swfla.rr.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Martindale Family Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 2:55 AM To: KRnet Subject: KR>Nyloseal fittings Hi folks I recently connected my manifold pressure gauge up using 1/8" Nyloseal tube (22NSR) to a 1/8" NPT thread adaptor. The adaptor is a brass Poly-Flo fitting (Aircraft Spruce P/N 268P-02x02). This fitting is used on 1/8" tube since Nyloseal equilivents are not available for tube less than 1/4". These adaptors used to comprise a collar or olive that is compressed and bites into the tube as the clamp nut is tightened. They can therefore be removed simply by undoing the nut and if necessary cutting off the old olive and replacing it with a new one. They are good for both vacuum and pressure. However, the new generation fittings I received from AS (stamped "Alkon 1/8") require the tube to be merely pushed in whence it becomes locked by "one-way teeth" and I presume air pressure against some sort of seal. There is no clamping nut or olive. Unfortunately these fittings leak past the "teeth"/ seal when under vacuum in my manifold system leading to high idle MP (19"). My problem is that I cannot get them apart to get the tube out prior to replacing them. I could cut the tube and dispose of the fittings but then I will need to reroute new tube (as the old will be too short) which is a hassle given I've only just resealed my firewall and completed cable tying the existing one. So: 1) What is the secret in removing the tube from these new fangled fittings? 2) Do not use them in vacuum situations? Why do they have to change things....the old olives worked just fine. Ho Hum must be getting old. 50 years coming up soon. Also does anyone know what the difference is between 1/8 BSP (Churchill) and 1/8 NPT (Eisenhower)? Must be bugger all at this dimension!! John The Martindale Family 29 Jane Circuit TOORMINA NSW 2452 AUSTRALIA phone: 61 2 66584767 email: johnjane@chc.net.au_______________________________________ to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 14:39:31 -0500 From: "Allen G. Wiesner" To: "KRnet" Subject: Re: KR>Balancing Message-ID: <002101c40de9$e6d53510$d512da42@CPQ25208480116> References: <000601c40c4b$dae2e580$ba21f218@hot.rr.com><5.2.1.1.0.20040318133002.028352d0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> <045101c40dcd$f4f57400$0502a8c0@office> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 18 >Also... from preflighting lots of C-152's you can see that Cessna uses >small spanwise triangular weights just FWD of the hinge line. This is much > more attractive than our giant lead arm... but weighs more. > > Ross, Netters: > > Along the same lines and stealing from Tony's books, I was thinking > about this design: > http://www.geocities.com/djramccoop1/Aileron_Balance.html While the idea of the Cessna style spanwise weights (which are also on C-170/172's) has merit and the web site seems to be the same idea it is a lousy drawing - no allowance for down deflection of the aileron. As for the total amount of weight, is anyone at the aileron balancing stage? If so, try taping a mess of electrical solder in long runs to see how much it takes (or plumbers' bar solder, if it can be found in strips that are narrow enough [remember, down deflection clearance]). Another possibility, if you are a shooter, would be a row of ?.22 or .30 cal. cast lead slugs. If it does work without too much weight penalty, then continuous lead wire from Corbin in the approiate size could be epoxied to the bottom leading edge of the aileron. As an extra benefit, it would also provide a rounded edge to interface with a gap seal. Allen G. Wiesner KR-2S/TD S/N 1118 65 Franklin Street Ansonia, CT 06401 (203) 732-0508 flashyal@usadatanet.net ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 345, Issue 1 ************************************* ================================== ABC Amber Outlook Converter v4.20 Trial version ==================================