From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net To: John Bouyea Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 346, Issue 12 Date: 4/3/2004 9:52:48 AM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: T5 aluminum (Mark Langford) 2. Insurance (Mark Jones) 3. Re: T5 aluminum (Orma Robbins) 4. Virii/worm (Alex Swavely) 5. Re: KR2 Purchase (larry severson) 6. RE: Virii/worm (Brian Kraut) 7. RE: T5 aluminum (Brian Kraut) 8. Re: Friday Truisms..........just having a little Friday Fun (Allen G. Wiesner) 9. 6061-T5 versus -T6 FOR AIRCRAFT USE (Robert Morrissey) 10. Re: 6061-T5 versus -T6 FOR AIRCRAFT USE (Mark Langford) 11. Aluminium (Martindale Family) 12. Re: Insurance (Ross Youngblood) 13. Re: T5 aluminum (Phil Matheson) 14. RE: Aluminium (Brian Kraut) 15. Re: T5 aluminum (Brant Hollensbe) 16. Re: scientific blue book of KR values (Jim Sellars) 17. Re: 6061-T5 (Brant Hollensbe) 18. RE: Virii/worm (gleone) 19. Aircraft parts of steel (Bob Stone) 20. RE: Aircraft parts of steel (Ron Freiberger) 21. scientific blue book of KR values (Larry A Capps) 22. RE: scientific blue book of KR values (Brian Kraut) 23. Re: Insurance (Kenneth L Wiltrout) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 15:21:57 -0600 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> T5 aluminum To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <00a801c418f8$876118a0$5e0ca58c@tbe.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sid Wood wrote: > The Aircraft Spruce & Specialty catalog has three pages of definitions > and characteristics for aluminum alloy. More than you will ever need to know for building a KR Aircraft. If all else fails, read the directions (in the plans).<< The Aircraft Spruce catalog makes very little mention 6061-T5, other than it's articficially aged. I've looked around a little and have yet to find anything in my books about T5, but I haven't exactly knocked myself out on that either. I've seen several mentions of it on the web, but it's usually "6061-T5/6", so apparently that are practically the same thing, with the same properties, but arrived at through different aging processes. Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL N56ML at hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 17:19:23 -0600 From: "Mark Jones" Subject: KR> Insurance To: "Corvaircraft" , "KR Net" Message-ID: <004201c41908$efaf6aa0$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" FYI....I just received a quote from Falcon Insurance through EAA. I advised them my plane is equipped with a Corvair engine and they offered me a $1,000,000.00 liability. Hull value $15,000.00 for a rate of $1,851.00 per year. Insurance is obtainable with a Corvair engine....you just have to pay out the A$$ for it. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 18:21:56 -0500 From: "Orma Robbins" Subject: Re: KR> T5 aluminum To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <01ba01c41909$4b7056b0$e33ed445@ROBBINS1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" "books about T5" The A & P General textbook by Jeppesen, that I used as an A & P instructor has the following to say about T5 and T6 "T5 Artificially aged after an elevated temperature, rapid -cool fabrication process such as extrusion or casting." "T6 Solution-heat-treated, followed by artificial aging (precipitation- heat-treated)." It appears that T5 is usually part of the manufacturing process where T6 is or can be accomoplished at other times. Orma L. Robbins Southfield MI 19 Years flying KR-2 N110LR http://www.aviation-mechanics.com ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 16:36:23 -0800 From: Alex Swavely Subject: KR> Virii/worm To: KRnet Message-ID: <406E0707.60004@swavely.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Someone on this list is infected with a virus/worm. I know this because the virus sent the message to the email address I have set up specifically for this mailing list. If you have a cable modem and your isp is Rogers Communications, you should scan your system. If you don't currently have an antivirus program, or you are unsure of your AVS update status, you can visit http://housecall.symantec.com for a free, online (java) virus scan. ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 16:52:04 -0800 From: larry severson Subject: Re: KR> KR2 Purchase To: KRnet Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20040402164837.028974f0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 08:46 PM 3/31/2004 -0500, you wrote: >I got a statement from the previous owner, that I had performed over >51% of the work. And, believe me, that last 10%, takes way more than >51% more work to finish. Doesn't work! The FAA doesn't count the amount of time consumed. It does count the number of distinct components built. You can get a plane with all vacuum produced parts that lock together ready to paint in hours and pass the 51%. But get one that is finished, but rough, and you will spend years getting one that is acceptable, and still not get your mechanics cert. Larry Severson Fountain Valley, CA 92708 (714) 968-9852 larry2@socal.rr.com ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 21:18:50 -0500 From: "Brian Kraut" Subject: RE: KR> Virii/worm To: "KRnet" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Remember that emails on the list are archived on web sites. Type your name in Yahoo and it will bring up at least one KRNet digest with messages you wrote to the net in it. Blood sucking virus makers and spam mailers crawl web sites and harvest email addresses. Not that your virus might not have been from someone on the list, but it is more likely that your email address got harvested. That is why it is normally a waste of bandwith to warn everyone on the list when you think you got a virus from the list. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Alex Swavely Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 7:36 PM To: KRnet Subject: KR> Virii/worm Someone on this list is infected with a virus/worm. I know this because the virus sent the message to the email address I have set up specifically for this mailing list. If you have a cable modem and your isp is Rogers Communications, you should scan your system. If you don't currently have an antivirus program, or you are unsure of your AVS update status, you can visit http://housecall.symantec.com for a free, online (java) virus scan. _______________________________________ to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 21:37:24 -0500 From: "Brian Kraut" Subject: RE: KR> T5 aluminum To: "KRnet" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Marine grade aluminum is a broad term. There is more than one alloy that is referred to as marine grade. If your friend can get you 6061-T6 or 6061-T6511 that will be fine. If all you know is that it is marine grade and you don't know what the alloy is don't use it. It will likely be an alloy that has higher corrosion resistance than 6061, but is not as strong. For the most part, stronger alloys of aluminum have lower corrosion resistance. When building boats you are usually more interrested in corrosion resistance. As far as T5, in all my years I have never seen T5. I worked at a machine shop a long time ago and started my aluminum parts there while I was getting the material and the use of the shop for free. My boss at the time told me that T6 was essentially the same as T5, but a whole lot more common. Maybe T5 was common in the 70s and T6 wasn't. This has nothing to do with KRs, but I sell electronics for ships for my day job and I was at a shipyard near Seattle last month. They were very busy rebuilding some ships that were only a few years old. Seems that Alcoa found out that there was a problem with a bunch of the marine aluminum they made a few years ago and all of it was corroding. They wound up paying several shipyards a bunch of warranty money to replace it. I imagine that it gets pretty expensive to replace all the aluminum on an aluminum ship! Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Ray Fuenzalida Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 2:26 PM To: KRnet Subject: Re: KR> T5 aluminum Question for the group. What about marine grade aluminum? I have a friend in the aluminum boat building business. I can get virtually any size/configuration metal from him. Is it acceptable? How is T-5 or T-6 different? Are we just talking thicknesses? Some kind of core inner strength? Ray A long **^&%$^*& way from being finished. Mark Langford wrote: Steven Phillabaum wrote: > On the aluminum list posted I stated T-5 for hinge and horns. Wicks > and ACS does not carry them. My father gave me a name of a supplier.( can't locate name at this time) I called and spoke to him. He does not have T5. OK what to do? MARK, what did you use if you did not find T5. I will need to make the horns but using Dr. Deans method of hinges.< Just use T-6, it's stronger anyway. Not sure why anybody would specify T5, when T6 is more plentiful and stronger in utimate and yield anyway. Are you sure you're not thinking of T651? That's pretty much the same thing as T6, as I recall. I used T6, and most other folks probably did too, whether they knew it or not. Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL N56ML "at" hiwaay.net see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford _______________________________________ to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway - Enter today _______________________________________ to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 21:41:40 -0500 From: "Allen G. Wiesner" Subject: Re: KR> Friday Truisms..........just having a little Friday Fun To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <002c01c41925$32347700$4ce24345@CPQ25208480116> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Rupert" To: "'KRnet'" Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 3:53 PM Subject: RE: KR> Friday Truisms..........just having a little Friday Fun > Dana: Obviously you've never had to depend on a helicopter for your > life. I've come home in birds so shot full of holes that no fixed wing > on the planet could keep flying and walked away (well sort of) as well > as everyone > on board except the one who was already dead when placed aboard. > Largest problems with helicopters are: 1. 1 hour of flight equals 4 > hours of maintenance. 2. too damn many things that can go wrong. > 3. Army Aviators will drink anything containing alcohol from any > container clean or dirty, the alcohol disinfects it. > Doug Rupert > Simcoe Ontario And from an old Sikorsky Tech. Rep: As Igor said - It is impossible to design a foolproof helicopter, God created some very clever fools. - and most of them enlist in the USMC. Colonel Harry Flashman, aka Allen G. Wiesner 65 Franklin Street Ansonia, CT 06401 (203) 732-0508 flashyal@usadatanet.net ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 23:14:53 -0500 From: "Robert Morrissey" Subject: KR> 6061-T5 versus -T6 FOR AIRCRAFT USE To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <008701c41932$373fbe00$010000c0@phoenix> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" For what it is worth the following is from my old (1960's) AIRCRAFT MECHANICS POCKET MANUAL by Joseph A. Ashkouti. On page 5--19,a chart listing Typical Mechanical Properties of Wrought Aluminum Alloys shows the following: 6061-T4 at 35,000 Lb./Sq. in. Tensile Strength. (This is a Solution Heat Treated alumunum) And 6061-T6 at 45,000 Lb./Sq. in. Tensil Strength. (This is a Solution Heat Treated and Artificially Aged aluminum.) The 6061-T5 in question is an Artificially Aged ONLY aluminum, and per page 5--24, is a heat treat of extrusions produced only by the manufacturer (Alcoa). Bottom line, still do not know what the 6061-T5 has for Tensil Strength but I would estimate it is less than the 6061-T6. If the anticipated use is for primary structure or for flight controls you may want to consider increasing the part thickness to compensate for the reduced strength. Bob Morrissey recent buyer of a KR2S boat with some other "stuff "camrwm@earthlink.net ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 23:01:48 -0600 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> 6061-T5 versus -T6 FOR AIRCRAFT USE To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <008501c41938$c4dbf930$1202a8c0@basement> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Bob Morrissey, recent buyer of a KR2S boat with some other stuff wrote: > Bottom line, still do not know what the 6061-T5 has for Tensil > Strength but I would estimate it is less than the 6061-T6. If the anticipated use is for primary structure or for flight controls you may want to consider increasing the part thickness to compensate for the reduced strength.< But since he was asking if he could substitute T6 for T5, the answer is still a resounding YES! Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama N56ML "at" hiwaay.net see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 17:50:32 +1000 From: "Martindale Family" Subject: KR> Aluminium To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <002801c41950$6c7e2160$75a0fea9@athlon2400> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Folks I know very little about the current thread on aluminium but it seems to me from the figures quoted that tensile strengths in the tens of thousands of pounds per square inch for the various alloys/tempers may be of less importance in our applications than the tendency to fatigue or corrode. The former might be more related to extrusion fillet/radiuses and thickness and the latter to the application of various surface coatings eg., anodising/alclad. I might get shot down here but might it be more advisable to go with alloys of less strength but better fatigue and corrosion resistance. Is it really relevant if our elevator hinges or whatever are rated to 45 rather than 35,000 lbs/sq in.... both are strong enough for our application. Now diving for cover. John The Martindale Family 29 Jane Circuit TOORMINA NSW 2452 AUSTRALIA phone: 61 2 66584767 email: johnjane@chc.net.au ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 02:04:27 -0800 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR> Insurance To: KRnet , Corvaircraft Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-15 Wow! $1851/year? I can insure a $60K Cardinal RG for that... On Fri, 2 Apr 2004 17:19:23 -0600, Mark Jones wrote: > FYI....I just received a quote from Falcon Insurance through EAA. I > advised them my plane is equipped with a Corvair engine and they offered > me a $1,000,000.00 liability. Hull value $15,000.00 for a rate of > $1,851.00 per year. Insurance is obtainable with a Corvair engine....you > just have to pay out the A$$ for it. > > Mark Jones (N886MJ) > Wales, WI USA > E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com > Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at > http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html -- Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 20:13:27 +1000 From: "Phil Matheson" Subject: Re: KR> T5 aluminum To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <006e01c41964$616e9e80$ee97dccb@Office> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Steven I have found that T6 is easier to get then T5. I have found that even some places that build aluminum products will have in stock. Phil Matheson matheson@dodo.com.au VH-PKR ( reserved) 61 3 58833588 See our VW Engines and Home built web page at http://www.vw-engines.com/ www.homebuilt-aviation.com/ ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 08:04:09 -0500 From: "Brian Kraut" Subject: RE: KR> Aluminium To: "KRnet" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" 6061-T6 and T6511 have good corrosion resistance, is strong, and is probably what is in the hinges of nearly every KR out there. I certainly wouldn't go with the stronger 7075 or 2024 because you will have corrosion problems and probably won't find the right size extrusions in those alloys anyway, but I woudn't go with a weaker alloy either. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Martindale Family Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2004 2:51 AM To: KRnet Subject: KR> Aluminium Folks I know very little about the current thread on aluminium but it seems to me from the figures quoted that tensile strengths in the tens of thousands of pounds per square inch for the various alloys/tempers may be of less importance in our applications than the tendency to fatigue or corrode. The former might be more related to extrusion fillet/radiuses and thickness and the latter to the application of various surface coatings eg., anodising/alclad. I might get shot down here but might it be more advisable to go with alloys of less strength but better fatigue and corrosion resistance. Is it really relevant if our elevator hinges or whatever are rated to 45 rather than 35,000 lbs/sq in.... both are strong enough for our application. Now diving for cover. John The Martindale Family 29 Jane Circuit TOORMINA NSW 2452 AUSTRALIA phone: 61 2 66584767 email: johnjane@chc.net.au _______________________________________ to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 07:20:29 -0600 From: "Brant Hollensbe" Subject: Re: KR> T5 aluminum To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <001801c4197e$6f86dea0$1902a8c0@WorkGroup> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" 6061-T5 and 6061-T6 aluminum sections are manufactured and certified to the same strength specifications. The only differences is a slight variation on the tempering process. Bottom line is that you can use either one for you KR, they are of equal strength. For those who love to read about such details , I refer you to http://extranet.rina.org/rina_rules/rina_rules_2003/RINA%20RULES/PartDChap03 Sect02.pdf ,Tables 6 and 7 may be of particular interest. For the rest of you guys and gals......get back to work on the KR and have a GOOD DAY. Brant Hollensbe Des Moines Ia. ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 09:52:11 -0400 From: "Jim Sellars" Subject: Re: KR> scientific blue book of KR values To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <004d01c41982$dcf9d560$8785c345@mainpc> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Mark: Let me offer some more data for KR2 buyers as to the prices I have seen, I bought a partially finished project, just the wood , spars and good workmanship for $2500. put an additional $12500 into it over a couple of years. It flew very well strong, stable, and fast if a little too heavy. I bought another project, great wood and on wheels and wings tail all built seats, canopy controls. again for $2500 but this time it was real dollars not the Canuck dollarettes as the first time. Add about $12,500 and we have another plane looking to fly this summer. During the winter I got a look at another plane over in PEI certified ( well signed off and ready to fly) looking very much like it had just come off the factory floor. Subaru engine, trike, etc. for $ 7500 CND. It made me want to cry with all the money I had in the other planes, but at the end of the day there were some snags to fix before we go flying, but a pretty plane. I will have the trike available for sale in the spring for $ 15000 CDN and that is a very fair price, for a very nice little bird. Goes to show how value is in the eyes of the observer, Best regards Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Langford" To: "KRnet" Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 8:24 AM Subject: Re: KR> scientific blue book of KR values > Dan wrote: > > > I don't like to "me too" posts, but this one definitely deserves a > > "ME > TOO". > > We get this question all the time and this really lays it out. I > > think > we > > could take this Blue Book and add a few things to look for and a > > recommendation to get a KR builder or technical counselor to look at > > it, > and > > we should put it on the KR-Net. > > I think it's a great idea. I asked Brian last night if he'd mind if I > posted his list to the KRnet website, and he said that'd be great, and > speculated that there would be enough replies to add a lot more to it over > the next few days. So by all means, let's hear some more guidelines and > specific numbers, and I'll cook up a web page that includes it all. > We could also point it to Jeff Scott's "Shopping for the partially > built KR" article at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/kronline9.html . > I'd love to just point people to a web page that answers all the > questions the next time > the subject arises! > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL > N56ML at hiwaay.net > see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 17 Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 07:44:26 -0600 From: "Brant Hollensbe" Subject: Re: KR> 6061-T5 To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <008801c41981$c7e3fee0$1902a8c0@WorkGroup> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I gotta get me a cup of coffee. Let's try that address one more time. http://extranet.rina.org/rina_rules/rina_rules_2003/RINA%20RULES/PartDChap03 Sect02.pdf Brant Hollensbe ------------------------------ Message: 18 Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 06:58:06 -0700 (Mountain Standard Time) From: "gleone" Subject: RE: KR> Virii/worm To: Message-ID: <406EC2EE.000009.03708@YOUR-FD6NVJCER4> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I hate to perpetuate this thread, but between yesterday and today, my ISP intercepted 13 viruses headed my way and 6 of which had bogus KRnet addresses. And rather than denigrate "blood suckers" (hey, leaches and mosquitoes and biting flies and gnats have feelings too, you know!), call them what they really are, bottom dwelling pond scum suckers. Gene Leone, Worland, Wyoming Why is Chelsea Clinton so homely? Because Janet Reno is her real father. -------Original Message------- From: KRnet Date: 04/02/04 19:19:46 To: KRnet Subject: RE: KR> Virii/worm Remember that emails on the list are archived on web sites. Type your name in Yahoo and it will bring up at least one KRNet digest with messages you wrote to the net in it. Blood sucking virus makers and spam mailers crawl web sites and harvest email addresses. Not that your virus might not have been from someone on the list, but it is more likely that your email address got harvested. That is why it is normally a waste of bandwith to warn everyone on the list when you think you got a virus from the list. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Alex Swavely Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 7:36 PM To: KRnet Subject: KR> Virii/worm Someone on this list is infected with a virus/worm. I know this because the virus sent the message to the email address I have set up specifically for this mailing list. If you have a cable modem and your isp is Rogers Communications, you should scan your system. If you don't currently have an antivirus program, or you are unsure of your AVS update status, you can visit http://housecall.symantec.com for a free, online (java) virus scan. _______________________________________ to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html _______________________________________ to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 19 Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 08:22:46 -0600 From: "Bob Stone" Subject: KR> Aircraft parts of steel To: "KR builders and pilots" Message-ID: <002801c41987$22edb6a0$ba21f218@hot.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" After watching so many posts about the use of various kinds of aluminum, I want to put my 2 cents in. I am not an aeronautical engineer or anywhere close to it however it seems to me that no part that is subject to stress of any kind, shear, tinsel, etc should be made out of anything other that the best quality steel. In this category are wing attach fittings, flight control hinges and all other parts in the flight control system, engine mount and certain parts of the landing gear. Of course this would add unwanted weight but it would make a lot safer finished aircraft. (Special note to flamers, do your damdest, I have a thick skin) Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx rstone4@hot.rr.com ------------------------------ Message: 20 Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 09:46:15 -0500 From: "Ron Freiberger" Subject: RE: KR> Aircraft parts of steel To: "KRnet" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Bob stone said; After watching so many posts about the use of various kinds of aluminum, I want to put my 2 cents in. I am not an aeronautical engineer or anywhere close to it however it seems to me that no part that is subject to stress of any kind, shear, tinsel, etc should be made out of anything other that the best quality steel. In this category are wing attach fittings, flight control hinges and all other parts in the flight control system, engine mount and certain parts of the landing gear. Of course this would add unwanted weight but it would make a lot safer finished aircraft. (Special note to flamers, do your damdest, I have a thick skin) OK; should we make them thicker too? We might end up to heavy to fly, but SAFE. BTW, tensile strength is a good measure of one-time strength, but most all aluminum has the same FATIGUE strength of "Pots and Pans" aluminum. Oscar, pull out the Timeshenko for 'em. Yet another issue.. many aluminum alloys harden with age. If you see a good buy on rivets, they are probably hard as hell. Some alloys can be annealed and kept in your wife's freezer for while. Take 'em out, form 'em, and let lay around the shop for a while to harden. Japanese ZERO's were made with a 70 series alloy for spars(7078 ?) ; a limited life wartime issue. The Spars crystallized and fell apart; that's why there are Zero Zero's around, except replicas. Aluminum is a marvelous material, used properly. Here in Lee county we have a mosquito control of seven (spray plane) DC3's built in the 40's. They are not made of steel. Ron Freiberger mailto: rfreiberger@swfla.rr.com ------------------------------ Message: 21 Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 10:10:57 -0600 From: "Larry A Capps" Subject: KR> scientific blue book of KR values To: "KR Builders List \(E-mail\)" Message-ID: <000501c41996$400a6b70$0700a8c0@schpankme> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Rand Robinson PRICING SHEET (TAIL WHEEL VERSION) KR2-S KR-2S Builder's Manual and Plans $240.00 Spruce Kit $830.00 Plywood - Mahogany 4' x 8' x 3/32" $530.00 1 sheet 4' x 4' 1/4" - Firewall $65.00 Aluminum Extrusion Kit (no landing gear parts) $140.00 Wing Attach Fittings $395.00 Control Stick Assembly $425.00 Trim Tab Nyrod Kit $15.00 Aileron Pushrods & Rod Ends $48.00 Tail Surface Hinges $225.00 Tail Spring $25.00 Tail Wheel $65.00 Cleveland Hydraulic Brakes Pkg $1190.00 Composite Fixed Gear (Mains) $525.00 Wheel Fairings (2) $190.00 Cable & Pulleys $86.00 Stainless Steel Firewall and Fiber Frax $85.00 Rudder Pedal Assembly $149.00 Bolt Kit $112.00 Foam Kit $265.00 Fiberglass Cloth $180.00 T-88 Structural Adhesive, QT. (Wood Spars) $26.00 Aeropoxy, 3 gal Kit (fiberglassing) $153.00 Premolded Top Deck Package $2330.00 Turtledeck Canopy Frame Canopy (clear, green or gray) Forward Deck & Instrument Panel Premolded Cowl $445.00 Premolded Wing Tips $156.00 Premolded Fuel Tank $285.00 Canopy Latches $30.00 Cowl Fasteners $35.00 Flap Handle $90.00 Turnbuckle Kit $175.00 Piano Hinges (Extruded) $135.00 TOTALS $9645.00 Larry A Capps Naperville, IL "Measure it to the thousandth, mark it with a felt tip pen, and cut it with a chain saw." -----Original Message----- KR2 buyers a partially finished project, just the wood , spars and good workmanship for $2500. put an additional $12500 into it over a couple of years. It flew very well strong, stable, and fast if a little too heavy. I will have the trike available for sale in the spring for $ 15000 CDN and that is a very fair price, for a very nice little bird. ------------------------------ Message: 22 Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 11:30:22 -0500 From: "Brian Kraut" Subject: RE: KR> scientific blue book of KR values To: , "KRnet" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" You forgot one thing: 3000 hours of blood, sweat, and tears.........priceless. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces+brian.kraut=engalt.com@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces+brian.kraut=engalt.com@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Larry A Capps Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2004 11:11 AM To: KR Builders List (E-mail) Subject: KR> scientific blue book of KR values Rand Robinson PRICING SHEET (TAIL WHEEL VERSION) KR2-S KR-2S Builder's Manual and Plans $240.00 Spruce Kit $830.00 Plywood - Mahogany 4' x 8' x 3/32" $530.00 1 sheet 4' x 4' 1/4" - Firewall $65.00 Aluminum Extrusion Kit (no landing gear parts) $140.00 Wing Attach Fittings $395.00 Control Stick Assembly $425.00 Trim Tab Nyrod Kit $15.00 Aileron Pushrods & Rod Ends $48.00 Tail Surface Hinges $225.00 Tail Spring $25.00 Tail Wheel $65.00 Cleveland Hydraulic Brakes Pkg $1190.00 Composite Fixed Gear (Mains) $525.00 Wheel Fairings (2) $190.00 Cable & Pulleys $86.00 Stainless Steel Firewall and Fiber Frax $85.00 Rudder Pedal Assembly $149.00 Bolt Kit $112.00 Foam Kit $265.00 Fiberglass Cloth $180.00 T-88 Structural Adhesive, QT. (Wood Spars) $26.00 Aeropoxy, 3 gal Kit (fiberglassing) $153.00 Premolded Top Deck Package $2330.00 Turtledeck Canopy Frame Canopy (clear, green or gray) Forward Deck & Instrument Panel Premolded Cowl $445.00 Premolded Wing Tips $156.00 Premolded Fuel Tank $285.00 Canopy Latches $30.00 Cowl Fasteners $35.00 Flap Handle $90.00 Turnbuckle Kit $175.00 Piano Hinges (Extruded) $135.00 TOTALS $9645.00 Larry A Capps Naperville, IL "Measure it to the thousandth, mark it with a felt tip pen, and cut it with a chain saw." -----Original Message----- KR2 buyers a partially finished project, just the wood , spars and good workmanship for $2500. put an additional $12500 into it over a couple of years. It flew very well strong, stable, and fast if a little too heavy. I will have the trike available for sale in the spring for $ 15000 CDN and that is a very fair price, for a very nice little bird. _______________________________________ to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 23 Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 12:51:18 -0500 From: Kenneth L Wiltrout Subject: Re: KR> Insurance To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20040403.125119.128.1.klw1953@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii My 2S is powered by a 2100 Revmaster--------$15,000 hull value, and full coverage for under $1000 last year, I'm being requoted for this year. I should know in the next week or 2 what it will cost for 04. My carrier is SkySmith. On Fri, 2 Apr 2004 17:19:23 -0600 "Mark Jones" writes: > FYI....I just received a quote from Falcon Insurance through EAA. I > advised them my plane is equipped with a Corvair engine and they > offered me a $1,000,000.00 liability. Hull value $15,000.00 for a > rate of $1,851.00 per year. Insurance is obtainable with a Corvair > engine....you just have to pay out the A$$ for it. > > Mark Jones (N886MJ) > Wales, WI USA > E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com > Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at > http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 346, Issue 12 ************************************** ================================== ABC Amber Outlook Converter v4.20 Trial version ==================================