From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net To: John Bouyea Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 346, Issue 13 Date: 7/5/2004 9:21:36 AM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: wing incidence (Pat Driscoll) 2. Stall Warning (Long) (Stephen Jacobs) 3. RE: Question about 5/8 spruce - conduit passing through (Stephen Jacobs) 4. RE: Question about 5/8 spruce - conduit passing through (Dan Heath) 5. Re: Stall Warning (Long) (Dan Heath) 6. RE: Question about 5/8 spruce (Dan Heath) 7. RE: Netters, thank you, now I see the light (Dan Heath) 8. Re: Updates (Colin & Bev Rainey) 9. Re: Updates (Dan Heath) 10. Re: Wes Scot - Drilling Holes in Spars (Edward Seaman) 11. Goldwing engines (Colin & Bev Rainey) 12. Re: Bendix mags (Linda Warner) 13. Stall Warning (Stephen Jacobs) 14. Re: Engine Choices - KR2-S/ KR100 (larry flesner) 15. Fuse is painted (Dan Heath) 16. RE: Drilling Holes in Spars - stress riser? (Stephen Jacobs) 17. Re: Fuse is painted (raybeth123@sbcglobal.net) 18. Oil Cooler Air System (Mark Jones) 19. RE: Goldwing engines (Doug Rupert) 20. Stall Warning (larry flesner) 21. Re: Stall Warning (Long) (larry severson) 22. RE: Wes Scot - Drilling Holes in Spars (Brian Kraut) 23. DON'T remove the shear web Re: KR> Wes Scot - Drilling Holes in Spars (Wesley Scott) 24. RE: Drilling Holes in Spars - stress riser? (Doug Rupert) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2004 23:38:36 -0500 From: "Pat Driscoll" Subject: Re: KR> wing incidence To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <008d01c46249$f01bb9a0$1e40d240@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Mark, Last time I flew a "Pacer" was in 1958. Do they still fly the same way? Pat Driscoll patrick36@usfamily.net Saint Paul, MN ------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $8.99/mo! ------ ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 10:06:03 +0200 From: "Stephen Jacobs" Subject: KR> Stall Warning (Long) To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <000001c46266$ee72e570$bf64a8c0@home> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" This is where an "angle of attack" meter saves the day, since the plane will stall at the same angle of attack no matter what the flight conditions. +++++++++++++++++++++++++ Larry F has referenced a brilliant source of definitions (and a whole lot more) - well worth a read. Over years I have tried to express AofA in the simplest (least confusing) manner - it is an important term in the life of an aviator. In the simplest of terms - A of A is the angular diff between where the airplane is pointing and where it is going - think about it. Then think about the deck angle during a power off stall vs. the deck angle that can be attained by going on the back of the power curve - assuming that the aircraft is moving horizontally in both cases, just at the moment of stall. I am not sure what value A of A will have in alerting a pilot to stalling CONDITIONS. Many pilots fly cross-controls as an approach technique in cross winds. Cross controls is also good for stalling one wing (that is how we get a tardy aerobatic bird to crisp up the snap rolls). The un-alerted pilot may well be drawn into large cross-control deflections during a cross wind approach, thus pretty dangerous conditions at a modest AofA - nothing like the high nose I see during regular stalls with similar flap setting. The actual topic however is "stall warning" This has saved my bacon more than once by alerting me under conditions during which I was not expecting (ready for) a stall. I hope it will do so for many more pilots, many more times. There are times (on approach) that we are tuned in to the speed and very aware of the stalling numbers. There are other times that we are busy with other things and least expecting a stall - that is when the buzzer or light earns its keep. I recall two occasions that the red light on my Cherokee Six started talking to me immediately after take off - only in retrospect did I realize that the conditions on the day (runway length, DA and MAUW) gave rise to marginal conditions that required very careful handling for the first few seconds after leaving ground effect. The red light however put me on full alert - one eye on the ASI, ball dead centre, easy on the stick and no turns. I do not recall the deck angle (fair indication of AofA) being anywhere close to what I would see when practicing stalls. Who knows what.....? The variations of stall alerts that I have experienced: a) the Piper /Beech type vane on the LE and b) the early Cessna "flute" type. Both physically detect when the airflow is getting close to breaking up at the LE - and that is the approach of an actual stall (no matter what else) and that is the warning I want. Both devices report ACTUAL airflow conditions in "their" area - the area just before the known stalling (break-away) point. The vane or flute is telling you that their "local" conditions are stall conditions - and if you allow these local conditions to move another half inch father north, you will stall (that wing?) - irrespective of anything else, air speed, AofA, price of beer. Maybe it is possible to extrapolate these conditions from AofA, but will AofA take into consideration the slip (or skid), gusts etc? Think of the slats on a Tiger Moth - same principle, they move (are sucked) out when conditions approach the stall. A clear indication of the effectiveness (sensitivity) of this action is demonstrated by the fact that one slat will often pop out (and back in) without the other side moving at all - maybe due to a gust or maybe the driver did not have the ball in the centre. Never thought about it before, but it would be constructive to go out and fly steep turns in both directions with a bird that has stall warning. Is there a bias in the SW reporting with a device on one side only? Maybe first prize would be a stall sensor (slat or flute) on both sides. There is no doubt that installing one on a KR will require fiddling, Adjusting, calibrating - that can be done deliberately and safely at altitude. Once it is set up - the builder /pilot will know exactly what it is telling him (how much lee-way etc.) Have a great week Steve J ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 10:30:26 +0200 From: "Stephen Jacobs" Subject: RE: KR> Question about 5/8 spruce - conduit passing through To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <000001c4626a$566854f0$1264a8c0@home> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I don't see how it could be much stronger being skinned on the outside and inside ++++++++++++++++++ I would like to see the structural guys reaction on this one - I would like to do exactly that in my 115% rendition of a KR. In fact, I would like to take the inner skin from the firewall to the rear spar - then taper off by ending along the diagonal. I am never sure when making something stronger may be causing a structural problem somewhere else. Steve J ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 05:28:07 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" Subject: RE: KR> Question about 5/8 spruce - conduit passing through To: "krnet@mylist.net" Message-ID: <40E91F27.000005.02960@COMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" RE: making something stronger may be causing a structural problem somewhere else That is very true. I think that skinning behind the rear spar will add much weight where you don't want it. I would like to see someone use a triangle of skin glued over the stringer joints, instead of gussets and see what the effect is. I have always thought that it would be just as strong, if not stronger and sure would be a lot easier to make. "There is a time for building and a time for flying, and the time for building has long since expired." See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 05:35:41 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" Subject: Re: KR> Stall Warning (Long) To: "krnet@mylist.net" Message-ID: <40E920ED.000007.02960@COMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" RE: Maybe first prize would be a stall sensor (slat or flute) on both sides. What does "slat or flute" mean? I had a stall warning on my first KR. It was one of those like on the C-150 where a little tab sticks out into the airstream and will be forced to move back and trigger the buzzer. I made it work on the ground by moving it up, but it didn't seem to do much in the air as I could only guess where to put it. I later took it out because I believe that bad information is worse than no information. "There is a time for building and a time for flying, and the time for building has long since expired." See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 05:47:11 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" Subject: RE: KR> Question about 5/8 spruce To: "krnet@mylist.net" Message-ID: <40E9239F.000009.02960@COMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" RE: I might use a pulley on the back side of the forward spar and one mounted off the aft spar or I might just use the nylaflow tube again If you use the pulleys, you will never have to be concerned about the wear. I may have a couple extra around here somewhere that you can have. "There is a time for building and a time for flying, and the time for building has long since expired." See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 05:51:13 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" Subject: RE: KR> Netters, thank you, now I see the light To: "krnet@mylist.net" Message-ID: <40E92491.00000B.02960@COMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Brian, I have 7 lights in there now and I really don't know where I could put anymore of them. I think they cost around $9 now at Lowes, for the cheap ones. http://kr-builder.org/WeeksPost2/index.html "There is a time for building and a time for flying, and the time for building has long since expired." See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering -------Original Message------- From: KRnet Date: 07/04/04 23:23:11 To: KRnet Subject: RE: KR> Netters, thank you, now I see the light I use the two bulb four foot florescent shop lights that you can get at Home Depot for about ten bucks. They have chains to hang them easily and you can get all the light you need for a hundred bucks. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Dan Heath Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 8:29 PM To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR> Netters, thank you, now I see the light When you said that I needed a lot of light to get the paint job done right, I didn't realize how important it was and I did not want to spend any money on infrastructure as this paint booth had already cost me plenty. Then I realized that my shop was not very well lit and that I had some other lights in the shed where I keep my yard tools, that I could borrow. So I borrowed them and bought 3 more and now there is light. I thought you might want to see it and I wanted to say "thank you". Dan http://kr-builder.org/WeeksPost2/index.html and click on the pic. "There is a time for building and a time for flying, and the time for building has long since expired." See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering _______________________________________ to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html _______________________________________ to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 06:00:17 -0400 From: "Colin & Bev Rainey" Subject: Re: KR> Updates To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <005f01c46276$e0675d70$34442141@RaineyDay> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Dan The mounting holes were elongated for adjusting the brackets to agree with one another. He wanted only the one hole not slots. I think he said since I was going to have to remake them anyway, so make them out of 4130 steel. Colin & Bev Rainey KR2(td) N96TA Sanford, FL crainey1@cfl.rr.com http://kr-builder.org/Colin/index.html ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 06:08:37 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" Subject: Re: KR> Updates To: "krnet@mylist.net" Message-ID: <40E928A5.00000D.02960@COMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Now, that makes more sense. However, it seems that it would be much easier to make it out of AL, but that is behind you now. Don't go to bed, get to work. I gotta go paint now, before it get's too hot. It is supposed to be 97 today. However, I am ready, just having my morning coffee and out to paint. "There is a time for building and a time for flying, and the time for building has long since expired." See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering -------Original Message------- From: KRnet Date: 07/05/04 06:00:51 To: KRnet Subject: Re: KR> Updates Dan The mounting holes were elongated for adjusting the brackets to agree with one another. He wanted only the one hole not slots. I think he said since I was going to have to remake them anyway, so make them out of 4130 steel. Colin & Bev Rainey KR2(td) N96TA Sanford, FL crainey1@cfl.rr.com http://kr-builder.org/Colin/index.html _______________________________________ to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html . ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 11:39:41 +0100 (BST) From: Edward Seaman Subject: Re: KR> Wes Scot - Drilling Holes in Spars To: Wesley Scott , KRnet Message-ID: <20040705103941.19521.qmail@web25307.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 >>the vertical shear force on the spar inside the >>fuselage is zero Aw shucks man, why did I not know that before - I need to rip out the ply shear webs in the fuselage to fit my rubber tank - now I can. Silly KR, why did he put them there in the first place - just extra weight. ___________________________________________________________ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - sooooo many all-new ways to express yourself http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 06:46:09 -0400 From: "Colin & Bev Rainey" Subject: KR> Goldwing engines To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <011a01c4627d$48bdf860$34442141@RaineyDay> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Netters, According to Richard Finch who authored the book about auto engines for aircraft, the Honda Goldwing engines ended up too heavy for their output in most applications attempting to use them. A PSRU will help, but most motorcycle engines operate like a turbo prop, relying on alittle torque applied alot of times to get the job done. Colin & Bev Rainey KR2(td) N96TA Sanford, FL crainey1@cfl.rr.com http://kr-builder.org/Colin/index.html ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 07:39:01 -0400 From: jaslkw@webtv.net (Linda Warner) Subject: Re: KR> Bendix mags To: krnet@mylist.net (KRnet) Message-ID: <23280-40E93DD5-6236@storefull-3135.bay.webtv.net> Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Someone asked how a new harness would attach to a 2000 series Bendix mag. As far as I've ever seen, they always come with a new back plate and it simply attaches to the mag with 4 screws. These screws only get torqued to 35 inch lbs, so you need a very low scale torque wrench. Over torqueing can lead to case warping and was the subject of an AD on them years ago. You'll need to tell them what plugs you have (5/8 or 3/4 barrel) when you order your harness. Also,you want to make sure when you are installing the harness, that all of the wire ends or insulators go inside the holes in the distributors on the back of the mag. It's easy to miss one or two of the holes and it won't run very well that way. (Don't ask me how I know). Hope this helps some. John Sickafoose EAA Tech Counselor Naples, Fl ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 13:51:38 +0200 From: "Stephen Jacobs" Subject: KR> Stall Warning To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <000001c46286$71e29170$7d64a8c0@home> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" What does "slat or flute" mean? I believe that bad information is worse than no information. ++++++++++++++++++++++++ Hey Dan - your word is better, replace slat with tab. That is the one you tried before and it is the one I will use - mounted on a wee plate maybe 1" x 3" over a slot in the LE 3/4" x 2" that will allow some adjustment (up or down) to find the right location. I saw some brilliant graphic material (in colour) on the AS wing sections somewhere - would make it easy to get the tab very close to the correct position first time. If you want to try again, I can run a simulation on the RAF48 just before stall and at stall - send you the results (in acrobat format). >From this you could also get the tab pretty close - then fine tune it by flight testing. The flute was an innovative trick whereby Cessna figured out exactly where to locate an aperture in the leading edge, with a "tunnel" to the cockpit that had a reed in it. Under the correct conditions, the air pressure would force air through the tunnel and the reed would start chirping 12" from your left ear. Brilliant, amazingly accurate and no power required. I totally agree - rather have no info than bad info. A watch that gains 5 minutes a day is only correct once every 4 years - if you take out the battery, it is correct twice a day !!! I really enjoy your web site - often visit for inspiration and ideas. Steve J ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2004 07:34:06 -0500 From: larry flesner Subject: Re: KR> Engine Choices - KR2-S/ KR100 To: larry.capps@comcast.net,KRnet Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040705073406.008de720@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:36 PM 7/4/04 -0500, you wrote: >I' know there's an article discussing the newly designed KR2-S and KR100, >and how they were developed to accept the larger 0-85/ 0-200 engine. >>Can anyone refresh my memory as to where this article can be found? >Larry A Capps ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Try Mark Langford's site. He scanned in a package I mailed to him that was the RR info on the KR100. Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 08:42:17 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" Subject: KR> Fuse is painted To: "krnet@mylist.net" Message-ID: <40E94CA9.000019.02960@COMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Well, the fuselage is painted and now we can get down to some really serious wiring and plumbing. We will be doing a W&B soon after that. I can't wait. Really pumped now. Going to play golf so I won't be tempted to keep peeking into the booth. "There is a time for building and a time for flying, and the time for building has long since expired." See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 14:41:35 +0200 From: "Stephen Jacobs" Subject: RE: KR> Drilling Holes in Spars - stress riser? To: "'Wesley Scott'" , "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <000001c4628d$6c0871a0$9c64a8c0@home> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Looking at a simple vertical shear moment diagram for a wing fuselage arrangement like the KR(treating the spar as a beam) with a questionable but perhaps not unrealistic assumption that the vertical load on the two longerons is equal (this assumes the weight of the plane is centered within the fuselage including the pilot or the fuselage structure equalizes the loads) and the wing loading is symetrical, the vertical shear force on the spar inside the fuselage is zero and the bending moment is constant and at its maximum across the entire width of the fuselage. The vertical shear force is zero because of the assumption that each wing provides half the lift which is half the weight of the plane X G factor and that load is transferred to the fuselage structure at the longeron. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Wesley I confess to being grossly uninformed on structural analysis and maybe at the dangerous stage of knowing only a little. I am very interested in the subject and thus read all I can and seek every opportunity to induce a discussion. As such I found your post stimulating - I made sketches as I read your post and what you say makes sense. I visualize the inverted aircraft with sandbags all over the wing - the pile getting biggest 3/4 the way out on each wing - and I am still struggling to see that the largest load is not in the centre (where left wing loads meet right wing loads) Maybe I should not see the loads opposing the weight of the fuselage as acting in the centre, but rather where the twain meet. Take care Steve J ------------------------------ Message: 17 Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 07:45:10 -0500 From: Subject: Re: KR> Fuse is painted To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <000701c4628d$e9258ec0$ca429445@DELL> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Congratulations, Dan. It must be a great feeling. Ray ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Heath" To: Sent: Monday, July 05, 2004 7:42 AM Subject: KR> Fuse is painted > Well, the fuselage is painted and now we can get down to some really serious > wiring and plumbing. We will be doing a W&B soon after that. I can't wait. > Really pumped now. > > Going to play golf so I won't be tempted to keep peeking into the booth. > > "There is a time for building and a time for flying, and the time for > building has long since expired." > > See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics > > Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC > > See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering > > > > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 18 Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 07:54:51 -0500 From: "Mark Jones" Subject: KR> Oil Cooler Air System To: "KR Net" Message-ID: <004401c4628f$434bc120$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David Poirier" > > > > I see. You can't fit a two inch round connection to the rear of the > plenum, > > right? > > > > A two inch scat has 3.1416 square inch surface area. A 1.5 by 4 inch > > rectangular opening would be 6 square inches and fit in a narrow space. > > Looking at the cooler housing, you have the technique to me a custom > shape > > to fit. Funneled down to a 2" scat, it may fit better. No holes in the > cowl > > and a direct feed to the cooler. A 3" scat has almost 7.25" of surface > area. > > 1.5 by 4 could feed it well as well. I'm just trying to open up the box a > > little and prod your thoughts. I feel there must be a way to get it clean > > from the plenum with no cowl scoop. Have you considered the dust kicked up > > and into a scoop? I did consider doing an rectangular to round outlet out of the back panel of my air baffles. However, with the very low cowl and very low aluminum rear baffle, there simply was no room to install a rectangular one. Now, if I were to remove that baffle and re-do it, I could make it work, even with a round 2" or 2" tube. You see, I could make the aluminum wall taller and make the rubber baffle shorter. Believe me, I thought of 99% of the alternatives to get air to my oil cooler. And as for the dust issue, I thought of that one also, but, did you think that if you simply put it on the back of the air baffles, you will also be sending any picked up dust and dirt to the oil cooler. That is unless you filter the air somehow. I do not see how a two inch inlet will put more dust and dirt into the oil cooler than having the scat tube hooked to the back air baffle would, even if I do put a scoop on it. Besides, my KR is a hard surface runway bird only, so hopefully that won't be too much of an issue. I will keep a close watch on that one though. My left wing is almost done. Remaining to do is cut out aileron, put on landing light lens, finish wing tip and prime it for painting. Fuselage: the only big thing that is left to be done, is install a speed brake and make a new starter mount. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ------------------------------ Message: 19 Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 09:52:19 -0400 From: "Doug Rupert" Subject: RE: KR> Goldwing engines To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <004101c46297$4bdf36c0$2504e440@office> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Colin: I guess those motorcycle manufacturers put transmissions (PRSU's) on bikes for decoration. Before you start flaming I would suggest you open up an auto repair manual and see how both the horsepower and torque values of your favorite auto engine has steadily declined over the years all else being equal. By the way as a matter of interest for all those nay sayers out there that were so quick to put down the Harley engine, it is the only motorcycle engine that can not only survive but thrive on a steady diet of avgas without any modification whatsoever. Again before the flaming starts, I have put well over 60 thousand miles of my Evolution engine on a steady diet of avgas and when I tore it down just to see how the old girl was doing after all these years, there was no wear on the valve train, bearings or carbon buildup on pistons, cylinder walls, chambers or even valves for that matter and the performance was nothing short of spectacular. Doug ------------------------------ Message: 20 Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2004 08:54:40 -0500 From: larry flesner Subject: KR> Stall Warning To: KRnet Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040705085440.007b0b90@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >In the simplest of terms - A of A is the angular diff between where the >airplane is pointing and where it is going - think about it. >I am not sure what value A of A will have in alerting a pilot to >stalling CONDITIONS. >Steve J ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Also from the site I referenced before: [[ The 'stall' is the breakdown in the smooth airflow over the upper wing surface, that starts to occur when the wing nears a particular angle of attack – for light aircraft, without high-lift devices, usually around 16°. This critical angle of attack has no relationship either with the aircraft attitude or the aircraft velocity – it can readily be reached in a high speed dive – but it does have a direct relationship with elevator position and thus the control column position. ]] The fact that the wing will always stall at the same angle is why the "tab" and "flute" work. In the case of the "tab" it is adjusted so that when the wing is very near the stall A of A the pressure on the bottom side of the tab is greater than the pressure on the top side. The tab moves up and trips a switch, the buzzer sounds, the pilot releases back pressure, the nose drops, the A of A decreases, the tab lowers , the switch opens, the buzzer shuts off, yada, yada, yada......... As for the statement: "In the simplest of terms - A of A is the angular diff between where the airplane is pointing and where it is going - think about it." Once that angular difference exceeds the stall A of A for that wing the wing will stall. The stalling of the wing has only to do with the angle at which the on-coming air strikes the cord line of the wing. When it reaches the critical angle the air on the top side separates and the stall occures. The reason Ken Rand put 3 degrees washout (twist) in the wing is so the stall will start at the root of the wing while the outboard section with the ailerons are at a smaller A of A and continues to fly. There is other valuable info you can get from A of A meters that will help fly the aircraft more safely and efficently but I'm not well enough versed to expound on them. I'm sure you'll see the big commerical stuff follow the lead of the military in the use of the A of A instruments if they haven't already. Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Message: 21 Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2004 07:40:26 -0700 From: larry severson Subject: Re: KR> Stall Warning (Long) To: KRnet Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20040705073117.0248cec0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed >In the simplest of terms - A of A is the angular diff between where the >airplane is pointing and where it is going - think about it. Actually, NO. The article is correct. The AofA is the angular difference of the relative wind to the center line of lift of the aircraft. In most cases, the lift line is through the wing which has and angle of incidence, as does the KR2. Stall warnings systems can be built, but they need to be properly placed which is not simple. The Dynon system has the benefit of simplicity of installation along with all of the other benefits that it brings in a relatively low weight package, but it isn't cheap. It cost about the total price of the wood and glass that goes into the plane. I will not fly my KR (when it is finished) without it. Larry Severson Fountain Valley, CA 92708 (714) 968-9852 larry2@socal.rr.com ------------------------------ Message: 22 Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 11:07:09 -0400 From: "Brian Kraut" Subject: RE: KR> Wes Scot - Drilling Holes in Spars To: "KRnet" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I would suspect that you have nearly the same forces on the spar inside the fusalage as outside. The spar doesn't glue to anything inside the fusalage and there is really nothing substantial in there to glue to anyway. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces+brian.kraut=engalt.com@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces+brian.kraut=engalt.com@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Edward Seaman Sent: Monday, July 05, 2004 6:40 AM To: Wesley Scott; KRnet Subject: Re: KR> Wes Scot - Drilling Holes in Spars >>the vertical shear force on the spar inside the >>fuselage is zero Aw shucks man, why did I not know that before - I need to rip out the ply shear webs in the fuselage to fit my rubber tank - now I can. Silly KR, why did he put them there in the first place - just extra weight. ___________________________________________________________ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - sooooo many all-new ways to express yourself http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com _______________________________________ to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 23 Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 10:13:44 -0500 From: "Wesley Scott" Subject: DON'T remove the shear web Re: KR> Wes Scot - Drilling Holes in Spars To: "krnet" , "Edward Seaman" Message-ID: <003a01c462a2$ab6e40d0$a62e0704@pbrain> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" DON'T rip out the shear web. Simple analysis are useful for somethings. Don't redesign the plane based on it. Hopefully, the post below was a joke and my sudden vision of large numbers of snapping wings was an over reaction. -- wesley scott kr2@spottedowl.biz ----- Original Message ----- From: "Edward Seaman" To: "Wesley Scott" ; "KRnet" Sent: Monday, July 05, 2004 5:39 AM Subject: Re: KR> Wes Scot - Drilling Holes in Spars > >>the vertical shear force on the spar inside the > >>fuselage is zero > > > Aw shucks man, why did I not know that before - I need > to rip out the ply shear webs in the fuselage to fit > my rubber tank - now I can. Silly KR, why did he put > them there in the first place - just extra weight. > > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - sooooo many all-new ways to express yourself http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com > > > ------------------------------ Message: 24 Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 12:21:21 -0400 From: "Doug Rupert" Subject: RE: KR> Drilling Holes in Spars - stress riser? To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <005501c462ac$1cbea690$2504e440@office> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Stephen this is exactly how the stress and load factors are determined in the Marcel Jurca replica fighter designs. That being said however this designs have a one piece wing which is fastened to the fuselage the same as the Pazmany designs. This would be an easy enough change to make on the KR series aircraft but the purists out there are bound to flip there collective wigs at the mere mention of making structural changes even though they themselves are usually guilty of doing exactly the same changes as so well documented on the various web pages of Netters. I would also point out that many have stated over and over here that each KR is a one off machine, even if built exactly per plans. Study any and all information you can and after taking into consideration the snowball effect that any changes tend to create and what you want your aircraft to do performance wise (fast or sort field, stable enough to relax and enjoy the ride or constant attention to keeping it in the air), make your own choice. It would also be wise to get the opinion of the local FAA (or Air Ministry for those in other Countries) representative as they are the ones that shall make the final decision as to whether you will fly or have a very expensive lawn ornament. Doug Rupert ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 346, Issue 13 ************************************** ================================== ABC Amber Outlook Converter v4.20 Trial version ==================================