From: krnet-bounces+johnbou=speakeasy.net@mylist.net To: John Bouyea Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 346, Issue 137 Date: 9/26/2004 11:32:29 PM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: short Gathering update (Dean Cooper) 2. Re: Adjustable Rudder Pedals (Dean Cooper) 3. G-Limits - Enough already (Dean Cooper) 4. Re: Adjustable Rudder Pedals (GavinandLouise) 5. Sunday Morning (F Ross) 6. strobes (John Esch) 7. Gathering (Yosemite Sam) 8. Strobes (JIM VANCE) 9. G forces etc (Eric Evezard) 10. Re: "Fudge Factor" G forces etc (Wesley Scott) 11. Gathering (Brian Kraut) 12. RE: G-Limits - Enough already (Doug Rupert) 13. Finally, I've started! (John Bavington) 14. gathering (Mike Turner) 15. After hours form (robert glidden) 16. RE: Gathering awards (Brant Hollensbe) 17. Gathering stats (unoffical) (larry flesner) 18. RE: Gathering awards (larry flesner) 19. Gathering awards (Mark Jones) 20. Parade Flight at the Gathering (Brant Hollensbe) 21. corvair engine question (Bdazzcamro@aol.com) 22. Gathering (Jack Cooper) 23. Back Home from the Gathering (Dan Heath) 24. Re: Back Home from the Gathering (LaRRY5407@aol.com) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 00:23:35 -0400 From: "Dean Cooper" Subject: Re: KR> short Gathering update To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <008301c4a380$96fa8b80$0502a8c0@office> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Brian wrote: > Now Dean Cooper and I are trying to get earlier flights back to Jacksonville > tomorrow before the hurricane hits there and we can't get back. Well, Brian and I made it back home just in time (the airports are closed tomorrow). We were really disappointed to have to leave and not be able to attend tonight's banquet, but we had to get home to protect our KR's from mother nature!! I'm sure the banquet was a blast and hopefully we will see some "incriminating" pictures later... :-) If you did not attend, you missed a great gathering. I'm already counting the days until next year... Dean Cooper Jacksonville, FL Email me at dean_cooper@bellsouth.net See my KR project at www.geocities.com/djramccoop1/KR2_Home.html ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 00:37:45 -0400 From: "Dean Cooper" Subject: Re: KR> Adjustable Rudder Pedals To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <00bf01c4a382$91fed710$0502a8c0@office> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Mark wrote: >Has anyone built independantly adjustable rudder pedals, and if so how? Mark, The quickest and easiest way I can think of is to make some "platform" blocks to either permanently or temporarily attach to the forward side of the passenger pedals. These could move the pedals aft 2-3 inches, while maintaining the rudder pedal attach point. Obviously, this does not address braking, which would have to be addressed differently (two completely independant pedals and brake system), but if you're looking for her to take the controls in flight, this might work. This was just what came to mind. I have not tested nor seen these in action (my disclaimer... :-) Good Luck. Dean Cooper Jacksonville, FL Email me at dean_cooper@bellsouth.net See my KR project at www.geocities.com/djramccoop1/KR2_Home.html ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 01:04:46 -0400 From: "Dean Cooper" Subject: KR> G-Limits - Enough already To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <00f301c4a386$57cca0f0$0502a8c0@office> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Joe wrote: >At do you know, preferably first hand, about flying the KR2 at gross weights approaching 1300 pounds? Joe, As you can see, the value of the KRnet is that you can throw a question out there and get a lot of opinions. In some cases, your original question can mutate into another (gross weights into G limitations). To try and address your original question, the KR was designed for an 800lb gross weight. However, the average that I have seen are flying generally in the 1100-1200lb gross weight range (this is just my limited observation); however, there may be a few beyond that. Clearly, if you increase your gross weight beyond the plans (800lb), then you need to understand the consequences (ie, G limits, climb performance, etc) and MAYBE make some changes to compensate (ie, different engine, larger horizontal stabilizer, etc), but you need to do your own research as it is your life on the line. Also, as Colin stated, another important thing as you add weight is to watch your CG, it's critical you keep it forward, perferably in the forward half of the CG range. As always, your results may vary... Welcome to the KRnet. Happy building. ps. Having gathering withdrawals while trying to dodge Hurricane Jeanne... I'm going to work on the KR all day tomorrow since the weather will be terrible and my wife thought I was going to still be in Mt Vernon anyway... :-) Dean Cooper Jacksonville, FL Email me at dean_cooper@bellsouth.net See my KR project at www.geocities.com/djramccoop1/KR2_Home.html ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 18:44:56 +1000 From: "GavinandLouise" Subject: Re: KR> Adjustable Rudder Pedals To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <001901c4a3a5$19f78640$0100000a@vic.bigpond.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Put a cushion behind her back and let her sit foreword a little!!!!! Gav ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dean Cooper" To: "KRnet" Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2004 2:37 PM Subject: Re: KR> Adjustable Rudder Pedals > Mark wrote: > >Has anyone built independantly adjustable rudder pedals, and if so > >how? > > > Mark, > > The quickest and easiest way I can think of is to make some "platform" > blocks to either permanently or temporarily attach to the forward side > of the passenger pedals. These could move the pedals aft 2-3 inches, > while maintaining the rudder pedal attach point. Obviously, this does > not address > braking, which would have to be addressed differently (two completely > independant pedals and brake system), but if you're looking for her to take > the controls in flight, this might work. This was just what came to > mind. I have not tested nor seen these in action (my disclaimer... > :-) > > Good Luck. > > > Dean Cooper > Jacksonville, FL > Email me at dean_cooper@bellsouth.net > See my KR project at www.geocities.com/djramccoop1/KR2_Home.html > > > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 06:19:56 -0700 (PDT) From: F Ross Subject: KR> Sunday Morning To: KRnet Message-ID: <20040926131956.12521.qmail@web40908.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Marty Roberts announced he's sold his plane at five o'clock this morning to guy in Russia. How things change. Twenty years ago you'd have never guessed that this historic plane would someday be flying in Russia. This was the most fantastic KR Gathering I've ever seen and next year will be even greater. Bill Clapp's plane was an inspiration to us all to get started building. A lot of great innovations. Steve Glover brought in a beautiful show-quality plane all the way from California. There were close to 20 KRs here and several new completions, including Joe Weber's nice KR2. The guys from Canada managed to get in just in time for the banquet. It was great to see so many old friends again. See you next year. Frank ===== Frank Ross, EAA Chapter 35, San Geronimo, TX RAF Lakenheath, Suffolk, England, UK Visit my photo album at: http://photos.yahoo.com/alamokr2 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 10:03:40 -0700 From: "John Esch" Subject: KR> strobes To: Message-ID: <000a01c4a3ea$e6b801b0$6401a8c0@VAIO> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" All Of the majority of KR builders, which strobe system are people using? I have found on Ebay a ground vehicle strobe system and was wondering if it could be used for aircraft. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3931804307&fromMakeTrack=true Would this be a system worth looking into or at least for the strobes? John Esch KR-2SSW Independence, OR (7S5) ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 12:04:12 -0500 From: "Yosemite Sam" Subject: KR> Gathering To: "KRnet" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Just got back EARLY this morning and I have to say, AWESOME. Alot of fun, if I could stay this pumped up I'll be flying in next year, and I haven't even started yet. Thanks to everyone Todd Roat ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 13:24:05 -0500 From: "JIM VANCE" Subject: KR> Strobes To: "krnet" Message-ID: <001901c4a3f6$a0ff8880$0400a8c0@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I bought strobes made by Aeroflash Signal in Chicago. The wing tip units contain the white rear light, the front green/red light, and a side mounted strobe. This eliminates the problems with wiring and mounting a tail light on the rudder. They have about one square inch of frontal area, so should be low drag. There are two power supplies for the strobes, and I mounted them on the floor of the fuselage behind the cockpit. They are expensive: Wicks presently lists them on page 196 of their catalog for $432 (part number 156-0049DF). Weight including the power supplies is one pound 2.3 ounces. Current draw is 3.8 to 6.0 amps. One suggestion about wiring. I placed a length of 3/4" diameter plastic wire conduit (from any lumber yard) from the wing tip to the WAF's, then an extension through the stub wing into the fuselage. It makes pulling wires a breeze, and it also carries the tubing from the pitot tube and static port at the outside end of the left wing. Murphy's law says that you will need to change the wiring at some time in the future, and this makes it simple. I used knife connectors covered with heat shrink tubing at the WAF's, then pulled the loose wire under the seat and into the wing tip. That way, there is nothing hanging out to interfere with the aileron cables. As always, your results may vary. Jim Vance Vance@ClaflinWildcats.com ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 20:32:45 +0200 From: "Eric Evezard" Subject: KR> G forces etc To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <001a01c4a3f7$5744e900$7dce07c4@r5c9m8> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi netters, glad to see no netters mentioned the "fudge factor" of about 1 1/2 used by most designers to over design safety into the aircraft.In my young gliding days I used to "push redline" believing the design safety factor would see me through--until I came to my senses.I think this "fudge factor"must be forgotten about and the designers published figures used .The published figures can be adjusted to suit by a person who knows what he is doing---but dont bring the factor into it,-- not in my opinion. Best Regards to all, Eric Evezard. ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 14:19:04 -0500 From: "Wesley Scott" Subject: Re: KR> "Fudge Factor" G forces etc To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <003401c4a3fd$b1733f70$30ae0a04@pbrain> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" By "fudge factor" do you mean the FAA required factor of 1.5 between limit load (the load that can be applied indefinitely with no damage to the structure) and the ultimate load (the load that causes the structure to fail). And before anyone jumps up and down about how that only applies to FAR 23 certifications, the new sport airplane consensus standard uses the same 1.5 safety factor. AND 1.5 does not apply to everything, there are additional safety factors for specific items. The list from section 5.1.2.2 of the LSA standard is: 2.0 x 1.5 = 3.0 on Castings 1.2 x 1.5 = 1.8 on Fittings 2.0 x 1.5 = 3.0 on Bearings at bolted or pinned joints subject to rotation 4.45 x 1.5 = 6.67 on control surface hinge-bearing loads except ball and roller bearing hinges 2.2 x 1.5 = 3.3 on push-pull control system joints 1.33 x 1.5 = 2 on cable control system joints, seat belt/harness fittings (including the seat if belt/harness is attached to it) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Evezard" To: "KRnet" Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2004 1:32 PM Subject: KR> G forces etc > Hi netters, glad to see no netters mentioned the "fudge factor" of about 1 1/2 used by most designers to over design safety into the aircraft.In my young gliding days I used to "push redline" believing the design safety factor would see me through--until I came to my senses.I think this "fudge factor"must be forgotten about and the designers published figures used .The published figures can be adjusted to suit by a person who knows what he is doing---but dont bring the factor into it,-- not in my opinion. > Best Regards to all, > Eric Evezard. > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 16:37:12 -0400 From: "Brian Kraut" Subject: KR> Gathering To: "KRnet" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Wanted to give another very big thank you to Larry for a wonderfull gathering. What is it now? 352 days? Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 18:37:15 -0400 From: "Doug Rupert" Subject: RE: KR> G-Limits - Enough already To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <001401c4a419$6611d980$6086acce@office> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dean; I like your response to this and think your approach is much better than mine. (bull in a china shop). Glad Jeanne missed you, about time you guys caught a break for a change. Looks as though Sanford area may be swimming about now according to rainfall amounts I observed earlier today. Happy building. Doug Rupert -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net] On Behalf Of Dean Cooper Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2004 1:05 AM To: KRnet Subject: KR> G-Limits - Enough already As always, your results may vary... Welcome to the KRnet. Happy building. ps. Having gathering withdrawals while trying to dodge Hurricane Jeanne... I'm going to work on the KR all day tomorrow since the weather will be terrible and my wife thought I was going to still be in Mt Vernon anyway... :-) Dean Cooper Jacksonville, FL ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 10:14:34 +1000 From: John Bavington Subject: KR> Finally, I've started! To: KRnet Message-ID: <830558f90409261714201fdd6d@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII After reading about all of your building adventures for the last 6 months, I've finally begun my own project. I've picked up a trailer load of assorted bits and pieces, including plans and 2S supplements from a builder who's not continuing. At the moment there's no two bits of timber stuck together, but all the control surface hinges have been made, as well as WAFs and gear attach thingys, control cable pulleys, and all sorts of other little parts that will - no doubt - be crucial when I finally work out what they are. I've also got all the ply (Australian Hoop Pine 'cos Spruce is way too expensive here) and enough foam for just about everything. Have a look at what's happening at: http://au.geocities.com/johnbavington Cheers, John. ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 20:01:33 -0500 From: "Mike Turner" Subject: KR> gathering To: "krnet" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Larry F. great job on the gathering best one yet. Who won the peoples choice award ect.. Mike Turner Spin the prop, light the fire, dance among the stars............N428CM ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 20:37:24 -0500 From: "robert glidden" Subject: KR> After hours form To: "Krnet" Message-ID: <026801c4a432$8a64d300$0c00000a@computer2> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Netters Just wanted to thank everyone that came to the after hour forms at the campgrounds.This was one of the best fly-ins I've attended on large part because of the information that was shared by all at the late night forums.Look forward to future gatherings and more new planes.Congrats to Mark Jones on his first KR ride(hard to believe) and to Larry F. for a very successful gathering.I only hope Marks wife believes that smile is from the plane ride,because I know he still can't wipe it off.Again thanks to all that made this a fantastic weekend... Bob Glidden KR2S N181FW Corvair 110 ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 20:53:40 -0500 From: "Brant Hollensbe" Subject: RE: KR> Gathering awards To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Larry F. did an OUTSTANDING job putting on this years Gathering together!!!! We all owe him a debt of gratitude for all the effort he put in. Tonight, I bet Larry is in his Lazyboy, getting some well deserved rest. Award results were: Best Interior- Steve Glover Best firewall forward- Bill Clapp Judges Choice- Steve Grover Peoples Choice- Bill Clapp Congratulations Guys!!, your planes were absolutely beautiful. I was also thrilled to see N4DD, (Dan Diehl's old plane) restored to new life by Rick. Brant Hollensbe Bhollensbe@mchsi.com ------------------------------ Message: 17 Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 20:52:42 -0500 From: larry flesner Subject: KR> Gathering stats (unoffical) To: KRnet Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040926205242.007ae560@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" YEEEEEEEEEEEE HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.......... What a great Gathering! Thanks again to all that helped make it a success. Some early numbers to report. These are by no means offical other than the "registered KR's" flown in. KR's flown in: Offical count - 19 (believed to be a record) Registered guest: 140+ registered and several spouses not included. I know many locals and several guest did not register (my wife and the mayor and his wife, etc., as well as other flyins) Banquet tickets sold: 132 tickets sold (includes 4 complimentary tickets to Jeanette Rand and her daughter and the Mayor and his wife) We averaged about 85 people at the three buffets. Donations at the banquet totaled $713. (a record?) It would appear that we sold approx 70 Gathering stickers supplied by Brian Kraut. Hats (65) and shirts (130) were sold at cost and they are all gone. Several were given complimentary or as trade for services. It looks like we will do o.k. on the money. I'll have a complete accounting for you in the next week or so and post it to the www.krgathering.org site. My Gathering highligh (there were actually many) was giving Willie Wilson a ride in the KR. His only comment in my "memories book" was "FANTASTIC! GREAT FLYING AIRPLANE" He commented to me that it is the best flying KR with two people aboard that he has flown. My Gathering low point was not getting to spend much time on the flightline or doing much flying. I only got in one flight. Great to get the KR family together, even if only once a year. Thanks again to all that helped. Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Message: 18 Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 21:03:53 -0500 From: larry flesner Subject: RE: KR> Gathering awards To: KRnet Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040926210353.007c68b0@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >Larry F. did an OUTSTANDING job putting on this years Gathering >together!!!! We all owe him a debt of gratitude for all the effort he put in. >Tonight, I bet Larry is in his Lazyboy, getting some well deserved rest.> >Brant Hollensbe ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Thanks Brant but life has a way of keeping you humble. I came home and was asked by the neighbor to fix his toilet! I made the repair but informed him I wouldn't help him with the paperwork! :-) Richard Shirley and Steve Glover won the "greatest distance flown" award. California to Illinois and will return via Illinois-Tennessee- California and Richard is doing it in a KR1. I wonder how many questions he gets about the pink purse in the luggage rack! Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Message: 19 Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 21:26:54 -0500 From: "Mark Jones" Subject: KR> Gathering awards To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <002f01c4a439$7ae47460$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Best Interior: Steve Glover Best Overall: Steve Glover Best Firewall Forward: Bill Clapp Peoples Choice Award: Bill Clapp Farthest Distance Flown: Steve Glover and Richard Shirley. I asked them after the banquet who parks their plane in California the closest to Mount Vernon since both these guys are based at the same airport and I found that Steve is actually farther away but Richard stepped up real quick and said his aircraft has a much shorter take off run than Steve's does so technically he flew the farthest distance. Who's to argue....they both got an award!!!! Thanks Larry for the absolute best KR Gathering that I have ever attended. My hat is off to you sir. I can not wait till next year. As a matter of fact I was thinking of changing my KR Net name to Hal Minidaze. Could someone please tell me how many days I have to wait for the next gathering? Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 20 Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 21:34:30 -0500 From: "Brant Hollensbe" Subject: KR> Parade Flight at the Gathering To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Here is a fun tidbit for those that missed the KR Gathering. Last Saturday there was a parade down Main Street of Wayne City Ill., 25 miles east of the KR Gathering. It seems that 9 airplanes decided to join that parade with a single file high speed pass. The local onlookers loved it!!! Brant Hollensbe Bhollensbe@mchsi.com ------------------------------ Message: 21 Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 23:31:16 EDT From: Bdazzcamro@aol.com Subject: KR> corvair engine question To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" hey group, I have found a '64 Corvair engine and was curious if I would be able to use this engine in a KR-2S. Is there any special parts I would need to use this engine? Is there a particular year I should use instead? I have noticed in a couple web pages most went with a late '60's engine. Any information would be helpful. Thanks David Bdazzcamro@aol.com ------------------------------ Message: 22 Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 23:34:23 -0400 From: "Jack Cooper" Subject: KR> Gathering To: "KR builders and pilots" Message-ID: <410-22004912733423782@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Just got home from the best gathering ever. Can't wait until the next one. Special thanks to Larry for hosting such an outstanding event and thanks to all who flew in to share their KR with us. I also would like to thank all who attended because you are all special people with a dream and a passion, the kind of people I like to be around. If you were not there we will forgive you but don't let it happen again. Jack Cooper kr2cooper@earthlink.net Why Wait? Move to EarthLink. ------------------------------ Message: 23 Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 23:49:18 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" Subject: KR> Back Home from the Gathering To: "krnet@mylist.net" Cc: Jerry Mahurin Message-ID: <41578DBE.000003.02868@COMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" The Gathering was great, better than ever. Delores and I dropped Bob off in Atlanta and have arrived home safely after a 12 hour 45 min trip. It was worth every mile of it. Thanks to Larry F. and all the others who helped, for a fantastic, record breaking gathering. "There is a time for building and a time for GOING TO THE GATHERING, and the time for building has long since expired." See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering http://KRGathering.org See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC ------------------------------ Message: 24 Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 23:57:10 EDT From: LaRRY5407@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> Back Home from the Gathering To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <1c3.1efc2e8c.2e88e996@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Maybe next year I can make it. Say Hi to Delor. ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 346, Issue 137 *************************************** ================================== ABC Amber Outlook Converter v4.20 Trial version ==================================