From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net To: John Bouyea Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 346, Issue 16 Date: 4/7/2004 4:22:03 PM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: elevator mass balancing!! (joe) 2. !! (Glynnis Young) 3. Re: !! (joe) 4. RE: !! (Stephen Jacobs) 5. RE: !! (Glynnis Young) 6. Re: !! (Glynnis Young) 7. Re: !! (joe) 8. Re: !! (Glynnis Young) 9. Re: !! (Dana Overall) 10. Re: elevator mass balancing!! (larry severson) 11. time to sit me on the back burner for a while on this list. (Dan Heath) 12. Re: !! (Mark Langford) 13. Painting (JIM VANCE) 14. Re: elevator mass balancing!! (Steve and Lori McGee) 15. Elevator balancing, et al (JIM VANCE) 16. Re: Using a $37 HVLP gun that I bought from Harbor Freight (Dan Heath) 17. Re: Painting (Wayne Israelsen) 18. Re: !! (Mark Jones) 19. Re: elevator mass balancing!! (larry severson) 20. Re: elevator mass balancing!! (Mark Jones) 21. Re: !! - why the guys who have the answers do not give them. (Dan Heath) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 11:16:23 -0700 From: "joe" Subject: Re: KR>elevator mass balancing!! To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <003101c41ccc$6f33fa40$0a0110ac@o7p4e3> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Dana, you are probably right, because most modern T34s have the Parks conversion or similar with a gain of from 50hp to 70hp. I was only referring to the power capability (which was around 235hp) when I trained in the T34 and not the aircraft. Also, there is an A, B and C(turboprop) model. Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dana Overall" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2004 3:12 AM Subject: Re: KR>elevator mass balancing!! > >From: "joe" > >Dana, > > I flew the T-34 through departure stalls, which when held were violent. > >I > >found it difficult to fly through 60 > >degrees at 150. Anyone else familiar care to comment? > >Joe > > > I just spent Friday, Sat and Sunday at a formation clinic using > > > the T-34 > > > formation flight manual for a wingman card to allow formation > > > flight performace inside waivered airspace. The carrier brake > > > from echelon requires a 2.5-4 G pull from a 60 degree bank at 150. > > > While this may > >seem > > > docile to some, remember the load factor on the flying surfaces increase > >at > > > bank increases. > > > > > > Just food for thougt. > > The formation clinic instructors were pilots from TeamRV and Falcon > Flight who perform formation flights at Sun & Fun and Oshkosh. Stu > Macgurdy is one > of the few pilots in the nation who can issue a wingman card to a non > warbird pilot to fly formation in waivered airspace. The training and check > ride is extensive. We used the T-34 manual for standard 4 ship > formation rules flying...............hit me here...........RV's. With > that said, I've > flown a T-34 and can't imagine it won't hold a 4G, 60 degree bank at > 150 for > 4-5 seconds in a carrier break. Remember, a 60 degree bank, without > pull, automatically generates 2Gs wing loading. The point of the > statement was pilot induced G-loading. > > > With that said, my Biannual yesterday in a 172 was like riding a tricycle:-) > > > > Dana Overall > 1999 & 2000 National KR Gathering host > Richmond, KY i39 > RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" > Finish kit > 13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon. > http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero1.jpg > http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero3.jpg > http://rvflying.tripod.com/blackrudder.jpg > do not archive > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN Toolbar provides one-click access to Hotmail from any Web page - > FREE download! http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/ > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 19:21:49 +0100 (BST) From: Glynnis Young Subject: KR> !! To: KRnet Message-ID: <20040407182149.25080.qmail@web25203.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 I was really looking fwd to learning from this amazing gathering of informed, educated and versed men. I was wrong, I would do well to hurry back and seek access to the LMA - hope they will have me. I tend to be honest (outspoken) and males don't like that. I also tend to give freely any knowledge I may have (about flight). Strangely, males also seem to dislike that. An interesting questions about spar design had me on the edge of my seat - could not wait to hear the replies. Nothing, the question was ignored. However, some half-wit with limited linguistic abilities raise some macho topic about G forces in 60 degree turns and we are all ablaze and we all have something to say. With one exception, most of the comments were absolute garbage anyway. I know, I teach. Who gives hoot how a prehistoric trainer handles - the small penis brigade cannot wait to tell their bit (of BS). I somehow thought that the focus would be on how to make the KR better, safer, stronger and in the air. I know this is my last appearance - no doubt the good Mr. Langford will jettison me in short order, but on the way out: Larry Flesner - thank you for you most informative and objective reports - you have told me what to expect from my 2S (tail dragger) and I will enjoy keeping an eye on you and "bigfoot". I wish you everything of the best - you are a lovely man. (And an Ok burger fryer). Let the assholes know when the jury is out on side slips - I will be watching. Mark Jones - your enthusiasm is so refreshing - I wish I had the questions to ask - I just kow that you would provide excellent answers. Good luck mon ami. Steve J - I so wish I could answer your questions - I can sense that you want to do it right and are looking for the help that this forum should be all about. Dana Overall - thank you, an endless source of unselfish information - enjoy the tin can. (Thank you for the truisms) Other Mark - you have the makings of a really nice guy - why are you coming across as such a hard nosed prick? Really no need. We are experimenters and pioneers. I would really NOT like to see any classic "ambulance chaser" claims as to why the guys who have the answers do not give them. Happy landings and good tail winds - maybe one day ....... G --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 11:45:36 -0700 From: "joe" Subject: Re: KR> !! To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <005701c41cd0$84774200$0a0110ac@o7p4e3> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Glynnis, I was disappointed to hear your comments about males. However, you otherwise sound very bright and we will miss your input and questions. This group is comprised of mostly pilots and builders and most information is helpful to someone even if you are not interested. For example, not everyone is interested in the SnF but there have been a large number of SnF references. We indulge one another like we did your last message. Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glynnis Young" To: "KRnet" Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2004 11:21 AM Subject: KR> !! > > I was really looking fwd to learning from this amazing gathering of informed, educated and versed men. I was wrong, I would do well to hurry back and seek access to the LMA - hope they will have me. > > I tend to be honest (outspoken) and males don't like that. I also > tend to give freely any knowledge I may have (about flight). Strangely, males also seem to dislike that. > > An interesting questions about spar design had me on the edge of my > seat - could not wait to hear the replies. Nothing, the question was ignored. > > However, some half-wit with limited linguistic abilities raise some > macho topic about G forces in 60 degree turns and we are all ablaze and we all have something to say. > > With one exception, most of the comments were absolute garbage anyway. > I know, I teach. > > Who gives hoot how a prehistoric trainer handles - the small penis > brigade cannot wait to tell their bit (of BS). I somehow thought that the focus would be on how to make the KR better, safer, stronger and in the air. > > I know this is my last appearance - no doubt the good Mr. Langford > will jettison me in short order, but on the way out: > > Larry Flesner - thank you for you most informative and objective > reports - you have told me what to expect from my 2S (tail dragger) and I will enjoy keeping an eye on you and "bigfoot". I wish you everything of the best - you are a lovely man. (And an Ok burger fryer). Let the assholes know when the jury is out on side slips - I will be watching. > > Mark Jones - your enthusiasm is so refreshing - I wish I had the > questions to ask - I just kow that you would provide excellent answers. Good luck mon ami. > > Steve J - I so wish I could answer your questions - I can sense that > you want to do it right and are looking for the help that this forum should be all about. > > Dana Overall - thank you, an endless source of unselfish information - enjoy the tin can. (Thank you for the truisms) > > Other Mark - you have the makings of a really nice guy - why are you coming across as such a hard nosed prick? Really no need. > > We are experimenters and pioneers. I would really NOT like to see any classic "ambulance chaser" claims as to why the guys who have the answers do not give them. > > Happy landings and good tail winds - maybe one day ....... > > G > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends > today! Download Messenger Now > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 20:51:14 +0200 From: "Stephen Jacobs" Subject: RE: KR> !! To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <000f01c41cd1$509aee90$8164a8c0@homedesktop> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>> I also tend to give freely any knowledge I may have (about flight) >>> Strangely, males also seem to dislike that. Please don't go - marry me - now ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 20:01:44 +0100 (BST) From: Glynnis Young Subject: RE: KR> !! To: KRnet Message-ID: <20040407190144.80157.qmail@web25208.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 I was really being serious here Mac - the best collection of brains and entrepreneurial ability within the KR net - that is the best you can come up with? --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 20:17:08 +0100 (BST) From: Glynnis Young Subject: Re: KR> !! To: KRnet Message-ID: <20040407191708.12080.qmail@web25202.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Glynnis, I was disappointed to hear your comments about males You sweet man (I rest my case) Joe - you must really learn to make you email as compact as you can - coz all the charlie romeo ends up on the history thingy --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 12:27:43 -0700 From: "joe" Subject: Re: KR> !! To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <00da01c41cd6$663142e0$0a0110ac@o7p4e3> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I thought you were going? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glynnis Young" To: "KRnet" Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2004 12:17 PM Subject: Re: KR> !! > Glynnis, I was disappointed to hear your comments about males > > > You sweet man (I rest my case) > > Joe - you must really learn to make you email as compact as you can - > coz all the charlie romeo ends up on the history thingy > > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends > today! Download Messenger Now > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 20:37:42 +0100 (BST) From: Glynnis Young Subject: Re: KR> !! To: KRnet Message-ID: <20040407193742.17303.qmail@web25207.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 I thought you were going? Finally the penny dropped. Sorry sailor - ML must be watching Discovery (Mating habits of the West Amazon beetle). Won't be long now. I have pulled the nerve that bugged me G says over and out --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 15:57:25 -0400 From: "Dana Overall" Subject: Re: KR> !! To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I'm going to jump on Glynnis's band wagon. Someone, I forget now, mentioned a 15G number as a reference to an elevator counterweight arm. While the number is meaningless, the conversation was about strength and twisting issues. One poster grabbed onto the mention of G pulls in a T-34 when this was used as only a reference to pilot induced G-loading and it's corresponding relationship with the counterweight arm. Another split hairs on a 60 degree bank initiating a 2G load, which it does. Neither provided the first bit on information on the topic at hand. My point, and I believe Glynnis's also, is if you don't have something to say about the initial post, stick your thumb up your !@#$%!@# so you can't type anything. If you want to change the topic, do so with a new subject line. Probably shouldn't send this but what the heck. Kinda like a tea pot...........heats up until it whistles..........time to sit me on the back burner for a while on this list. Dana Overall 1999 & 2000 National KR Gathering host Richmond, KY i39 RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" Finish kit 13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon. http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero1.jpg http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero3.jpg http://rvflying.tripod.com/blackrudder.jpg do not archive _________________________________________________________________ Get rid of annoying pop-up ads with the new MSN Toolbar – FREE! http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200414ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 13:40:43 -0700 From: larry severson Subject: Re: KR>elevator mass balancing!! To: KRnet Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20040407133800.00b49d70@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 01:41 PM 4/7/2004 -0400, you wrote: >OK, geez Larry let's split hairs.........................a "level" 60 >degree bank places 2Gs of wing loading which increases stall speed. Does >that satisfy you? What the heck did this have with the discussion. >GEEZ........and that's being nice!! Given the past mis-information about slips and spins, I thought that it might be nice for beginners to be accurate. So little is these days. Larry Severson Fountain Valley, CA 92708 (714) 968-9852 larry2@socal.rr.com ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 18:15:44 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" Subject: KR> time to sit me on the back burner for a while on this list. To: "krnet@mylist.net" Message-ID: <40747D90.000009.04004@COMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Dana, You just can't behave yourself, can you. See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC DanRH@KR-Builder.org See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 17:45:13 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> !! To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <033001c41cf1$fde38920$5e0ca58c@tbe.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Glynnis Young wrote: > Other Mark - you have the makings of a really nice guy - why are you coming across as such a hard nosed prick? Really no need. Because if I don't do it, nobody else will, and if it doesn't get done, a lot of folks will blurt out one-liners, not delete volumes of text from their replies, and all the other stuff that some people do to annoy the rest of the subscribers and waste their time. And then there are the others (like you) who feel shortchanged by KRnet, and feel compelled to complain to 450 people about it. I'm sure there's a reason why I haven't been able to find all of those helpful posts you made to the list in the past. > We are experimenters and pioneers. I would really NOT like to see any classic "ambulance chaser" claims as to why the guys who have the answers do not give them. I'm sorry, but I was rather busy yesterday. Left the house at 6AM and got home at 10:30 last night. Working on a design solution to prevent young folks from being shot and/or blown apart by roadside bombs while touring the desert, as I recall. Sorry I didn't drop what I was doing to answer the spar question, but I will do my best to do it now, since I'd hate to keep you waiting any longer. Steve J wrote: <> I don't have this version of the plans, so I don't know. >>It has intrigued me for many years that the pillars are not all the >>same thickness (shear web to shear web). Is there an engineering reason for this or is weight reduction the reason? Maybe spar breathing?>> The same structural engineer had no clue about this either. >>Question 2 is: The KR plans call for no taper on the centre section >>and a double taper for the outer spar caps. That makes sense with a short carry through spar but in my case the centre section spar is much longer. I am making the spar caps nearly 30% deeper (66mm vs. 50mm) and would like to shed some weight by uniformly (proportionately) reducing the thickness all the way out. With a laminated spar it will be extremely convenient if it is OK to keep the same cap width and reduce the cap depth all the way out (through the joiners at half span). i.e. - a single taper in front view (no taper in plan view). Is there and engineering reason /principle that makes this a bad idea?<< Common sense would (and did) tell you that to build it like the plans would result in a stress riser at the WAF location, so you've got to do something different if building it continuous. I'm not sure what they were thinking when they came up with that wing attach fitting design. I believe Stu told me that Ken had a stress guy he worked with design that spar, and I'm not sure what that guy was thinking either. The bottom line is that unlike some people, if I don't know the answers to questions, I won't answer them! As you can see from my replies above, I don't know ANY of the answers to ANY of these questions, so besides the fact that I didn't have time, I decided to leave them for somebody that does. Somebody asked something about the AS5046 and the GA(W)-1 a while back, but specified that they didn't want opinions, they just wanted facts. I didn't answer that one either. It seems I just can't do enough for some of you people, and I offer you my deepest heartfelt apologies for letting you down... Mark Langford, official KRnet prick (for the moment) N56ML at hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 17:45:20 -0500 From: "JIM VANCE" Subject: KR> Painting To: "krnet" Message-ID: <000c01c41cf2$0bcc0580$0600a8c0@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Thanks for the many replies to my questions about painting. I have learned that a composite airplane can be any color you want, as long as it is white. I have seen a lot of Chevy pickups up to 20 years old that still look great. Their Arctic White seems to survive well. Consequently, I'm using the Sherwin Williams white and primer. I know it is a little heavier than real aircraft paint, but it is about one third the weight on my wallet. The initial painting I have done looks like it was intentional. Using a $37 HVLP gun that I bought from Harbor Freight, the majority of the paint went on the plane and not on the floor. I'm still learning, but by the end of the month, I may have my nerve up to shoot the fuselage. Jim Vance Vance@ClaflinWildcats.com ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 17:42:04 -0500 From: "Steve and Lori McGee" Subject: Re: KR>elevator mass balancing!! To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <003c01c41cf1$8c97ef40$0202a8c0@lori8v5h2xi9m3> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Not trying to shoot the messenger and did not mean to cause problems. Just set me off I guess. Sorry. Was just that the thought of if we have to build to 15 Gs on an 8 inch span, then what about larger? What are the chances of the wings holding fuel tanks like myself and others are building as much as 40" away from the wafs. Holding up to 100 pounds each? What about a complete tail assembly with counter weights and rear wheel etc, 80 inches and more from the rear spar? How many Gs will that take? Obviously no one wants to build an unsafe plane. But if you plan on thigs at 6 G max, then what is a person to do? Is there a schematic or drawing out there that due to forces of 6 G in a cockpit / waf area, these other areas are under going this # Gs due to their location on a plane? I guess I will say here and now in my simple mind I understood the tail to be like the rudder on a ship. While being able to force and turn a huge amount of weight and size against a much heavier resistance of water, goes on its merry little way cutting its own path. Perhaps that ballistic chute I plan on installing will be used very quickly in the life of the plane, perhaps not. Steve McGee Endeavor Wi. USA Building a KR2S widened. lmcgee@maqs.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Phillip Matheson" To: "KRnet" Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2004 12:49 AM Subject: Re: KR>elevator mass balancing!! > From: "Steve and Lori McGee" > >15 Gs - hahhah - hehheh - in a tail, thats a good one. > > > --------------- > > I may have made a mistake, with the 15 times factor, he may have said > 13. But it was quite considerable, I'm not qualified to give this > information, I > can only pass it on. > > So please do not shoot the messenger. > > But I only hope it makes us ask questions when we modify something. > > I at least went to the trouble to find out from someone qualified. > > Mark , Don, Dana, Dan and others Please keep the information flowing > on this > great KRnet. > > > Phil Matheson > matheson@dodo.com.au > Australia > 61 3 58833588 > See our VW Engines and home built Parts > and Kits at: > http://www.vw-engines.com/ > www.homebuilt-aviation.com > > > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 18:07:28 -0500 From: "JIM VANCE" Subject: KR> Elevator balancing, et al To: "krnet" Message-ID: <006001c41cf5$54acea00$0600a8c0@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I might be missing the point about the comment of 15 G's on the elevator counterbalance. If I understand the issue, the G forces being imposed by the pilot through bank and pull ups is not the issue. The issue is that when the control surface flutters, there are tremendous forces on the attachment of the counterbalance. Apparently the flutter generates enough acceleration forces to rip the control surface off the plane. Was the strengh of the counterbalance mount the original issue, or am I having a senior moment? Jim Vance Vance@ClaflinWildcats.com ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 19:05:19 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" Subject: KR> Re: Using a $37 HVLP gun that I bought from Harbor Freight To: "krnet@mylist.net" Message-ID: <4074892F.000001.03992@COMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Jim, That price is great. I paid $99 for mine and thought that I had a good deal. I wouldn't paint with anything other that the HVLP. It is the best painting system that I have ever used and it is consistent. I am spraying all my primer with it and have painted the cockpit with it and it looks great. We hope to have the Wannabee in the paint booth by the end of the month, but I have said that before. See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC DanRH@KR-Builder.org See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org ------------------------------ Message: 17 Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 16:01:45 -0700 From: "Wayne Israelsen" Subject: Re: KR> Painting To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <000c01c41cf4$4c9a6000$6701a8c0@HISPEEDWIRELESS.COM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Jim I don't know the line you are using but SW makes some good stuff. Paint all your trash cans, barbecue, bicycles, even some neighbors or their kids.(cans and Bikes I mean) once you get the feel you and your HF Airplane Paint Special, will be able to produce a fine paint job you can be proud of. Just think, if something does go wrong the worst that can happen is that you get to sand some more. once you've built a KR you are really good at sanding. Good luck You'll be fine. Thanks Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: JIM VANCE To: krnet Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2004 3:45 PM Subject: KR> Painting > Thanks for the many replies to my questions about painting. > > I have learned that a composite airplane can be any color you want, as long as it is white. I have seen a lot of Chevy pickups up to 20 years old that still look great. Their Arctic White seems to survive well. Consequently, I'm using the Sherwin Williams white and primer. I know it is a little heavier than real aircraft paint, but it is about one third the weight on my wallet. > > The initial painting I have done looks like it was intentional. Using > a $37 HVLP gun that I bought from Harbor Freight, the majority of the paint went on the plane and not on the floor. I'm still learning, but by the end of the month, I may have my nerve up to shoot the fuselage. > > Jim Vance > Vance@ClaflinWildcats.com _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > ------------------------------ Message: 18 Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 18:12:40 -0500 From: "Mark Jones" Subject: Re: KR> !! To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <00c801c41cf5$d34fbcc0$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hey Langford....YOU ROCK.....keep up the good work my friend. If you don't stop spending all your time on the KR Net and Corvaircraft Net, you will never fly to the KR Gathering in your plane this year. I sure hope you do cause I need a good wing man. :-) Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Langford" To: "KRnet" Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2004 5:45 PM Subject: Re: KR> !! > Glynnis Young wrote: > > > Other Mark - you have the makings of a really nice guy - why are you > coming across as such a hard nosed prick? Really no need. > > Because if I don't do it, nobody else will, and if it doesn't get > done, a lot of folks will blurt out one-liners, not delete volumes of > text from their replies, and all the other stuff that some people do > to annoy the rest > of the subscribers and waste their time. And then there are the > others (like you) who feel shortchanged by KRnet, and feel compelled > to complain to > 450 people about it. I'm sure there's a reason why I haven't been able to > find all of those helpful posts you made to the list in the past. > > > We are experimenters and pioneers. I would really NOT like to see > > any > classic "ambulance chaser" claims as to why the guys who have the > answers do > not give them. > > I'm sorry, but I was rather busy yesterday. Left the house at 6AM and > got home at 10:30 last night. Working on a design solution to prevent > young folks from being shot and/or blown apart by roadside bombs while > touring the > desert, as I recall. Sorry I didn't drop what I was doing to answer > the spar question, but I will do my best to do it now, since I'd hate > to keep you waiting any longer. > > Steve J wrote: > > < typically: FWD Spar Dwg 5 (from the centre out) - 7.5"; 7"; 5"; 10"' > 10" = > total > 39.5" half-span. I assume this spacing was relevant to the mountings > of the > original > retract gear. The same dwg also shows another view of the fwd main > spar with a pillar spacing of 13.5" centres?? Question 1: What have > the builders done that opted for the later fixed u/c?<< > > I've never been able to figure out the odd spacing, and neither was a > structural engineer here at work. But I figure if several hundred of these > have been built, and never experienced a spar failure, I'm not going > to worry about it either. > > < parenthesis? Could this be the KR1 wing dimensions? Similarly, the > Outer fwd spar length 77.5" (*59.5"). The outer fwd spar the pillar > spacing is given as 6" TYP.>> > > I don't have this version of the plans, so I don't know. > > >>It has intrigued me for many years that the pillars are not all the > >>same > thickness (shear web to shear web). Is there an engineering reason > for this or is weight reduction the reason? Maybe spar breathing?>> > > The same structural engineer had no clue about this either. > > >>Question 2 is: The KR plans call for no taper on the centre section > >>and > a double taper for the outer spar caps. That makes sense with a short > carry through spar but in my case the centre section spar is much > longer. I am making the spar caps nearly 30% deeper (66mm vs. 50mm) > and would like to shed some weight by uniformly (proportionately) > reducing the thickness all the way out. With a laminated spar it will > be extremely convenient if it is OK to keep the same cap width and > reduce the cap depth all the way out (through the joiners at half > span). i.e. > - a single taper in front view (no taper in plan view). Is there and > engineering reason /principle that makes this a bad idea?<< > > Common sense would (and did) tell you that to build it like the plans would > result in a stress riser at the WAF location, so you've got to do something > different if building it continuous. I'm not sure what they were > thinking when they came up with that wing attach fitting design. I > believe Stu told > me that Ken had a stress guy he worked with design that spar, and I'm > not sure what that guy was thinking either. > > The bottom line is that unlike some people, if I don't know the > answers to questions, I won't answer them! As you can see from my > replies above, I don't know ANY of the answers to ANY of these > questions, so besides the fact that I didn't have time, I decided to > leave them for somebody that does. > > Somebody asked something about the AS5046 and the GA(W)-1 a while > back, but > specified that they didn't want opinions, they just wanted facts. I didn't > answer that one either. > > It seems I just can't do enough for some of you people, and I offer > you my deepest heartfelt apologies for letting you down... > > Mark Langford, official KRnet prick (for the moment) > N56ML at hiwaay.net > see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > ------------------------------ Message: 19 Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 16:16:09 -0700 From: larry severson Subject: Re: KR>elevator mass balancing!! To: KRnet Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20040407160127.02da6ac8@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Splitting hairs again. > Not trying to shoot the messenger and did not mean to cause >problems. Just set me off I guess. Sorry. Was just that the thought >of if we have to build to 15 Gs on an 8 inch span, then what about >larger? What are the chances of the wings holding fuel tanks like >myself and others are building as much as 40" away from the wafs. >Holding up to 100 pounds each? If the KR2 is built to plans, the spars and wafs will support 7G at 800 #. At 1200 # the max G is 4.667 Except at landing, having fuel in the wings will reduce the loading on the wafs since the fuel weight creates a downward force countering the force of lift that the wings transmit to the wafs. My previous hair split was important since a significant % of light aircraft fatalities are caused by pilots overshooting the turn to final, tightening the turn by increasing the bank and back pressure, but not increasing the speed. This causes the angle of attack increase leading to a stall and a low altitude spin. It appears that too many pilots out there are not sufficiently aware of G impact on stall speed. This one of the reasons that I plan to add an angle of attack meter to my plane. It will tell me immediately as I approach a stall angle of attack. Larry Severson Fountain Valley, CA 92708 (714) 968-9852 larry2@socal.rr.com ------------------------------ Message: 20 Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 18:17:01 -0500 From: "Mark Jones" Subject: Re: KR>elevator mass balancing!! To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <00ce01c41cf6$6f02bf00$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve and Lori McGee" What are the > chances of the wings holding fuel tanks like myself and others are building > as much as 40" away from the wafs. Holding up to 100 pounds each? > lmcgee@maqs.net Steve, I can not answer all your questions in your original but I would like to touch on the above. The weight of the fuel tanks you speak of are only stressing the WAF's when the plane is on the ground. In flight, the wings support all the weight of the tanks. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ------------------------------ Message: 21 Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 19:21:32 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" Subject: Re: KR> !! - why the guys who have the answers do not give them. To: "krnet@mylist.net" Message-ID: <40748CFC.000003.03992@COMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I really didn't want to say anything here, but, I can't help myself and I know that it even isn't Friday. I read that question and wondered about it, and thought to myself, why do you care? Why would I care? There are thousands of these that have been built and it works. In fact, I understand that the spar is way over built. I also wondered why a person would want to change it. But then, I thought, I have an airplane to finish and really don't know the answers to design questions like this, so I will leave that to someone else. I actually was not surprised to see that no one picked it up, but I can understand your frustration and I am sorry that you can't get the answer to everything you want to know, right here on the KR-net. I do agree with you about all the fluff that goes on sometimes, but I figure that it is all part of us getting to know each other, and now that I know something about you, I am sure glad that you are not teaching my grand children that stuff that spewed out of your mind. Condemn if you like, but please be civil about it. We are all friends here. See you at the Gathering if you are really serious about the KR. See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC DanRH@KR-Builder.org See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 346, Issue 16 ************************************** ================================== ABC Amber Outlook Converter v4.20 Trial version ==================================