From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net To: John Bouyea Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 346, Issue 170 Date: 10/18/2004 8:59:29 PM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Fw: Crosswind limitations KR2 (Mac McConnell-Wood) 2. Cutting inset for aileron spar in "wing skin" aileron (Dan Heath) 3. Re: 2004 Gathering points of origin (IFLYKRS@aol.com) 4. Re: Fw: Crosswind limitations KR2 (Orma) 5. : Crosswind limitations KR2 (larry flesner) 6. RE: Fw: Crosswind limitations KR2 (Steve Glover) 7. Crosswind components (Colin & Bev Rainey) 8. RE: Fw: Crosswind limitations KR2 (Brian Kraut) 9. Re: for Colin (IFLYKRS@aol.com) 10. Re: for Colin (FIXERJONES@aol.com) 11. Re: Fixerjones (IFLYKRS@aol.com) 12. Gathering photos, finally... (Mark Langford) 13. RE: Gathering photos, finally... (Brian Kraut) 14. RE: Fixerjones (Ron Freiberger) 15. Re: Fixerjones - Southern Fly In (IFLYKRS@aol.com) 16. southern fly -in ? (IFLYKRS@aol.com) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 09:51:21 +0100 From: "Mac McConnell-Wood" Subject: KR> Fw: Crosswind limitations KR2 To: "KR builders and pilots" Message-ID: <029101c4b4ef$a47c27c0$af3e9c51@tinypc> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" ----- Original Message ----- From: Mac McConnell-Wood To: KRnet@mailinglists.org Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2004 11:40 AM Subject: Crosswind limitations KR2 My test pilot was caught out yesterday by a crosswind gust of about 10 mph which he couldn't hold.He's an ex airforce test pilot (128 types including airships!) I'm just wondering if he's a bit rusty on tail draggers ,as I never had any problems. What is the consensus on crosswind limitations for a standard tail dragger KR2? Thanks as always, Mac G-BVZJ UK ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 06:31:02 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) From: "Dan Heath" Subject: KR> Cutting inset for aileron spar in "wing skin" aileron To: "krnet@mylist.net" Message-ID: <41739B66.000003.01992@DANHOMECOMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" http://kr-builder.org/Aileron/index.html Neat little cutting Dremmel cutting wheel for cutting the inside laminate away quickly and accurately. See first pic. There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for building has expired. See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC See you in Mt. Vernon - 2005 - KR Gathering ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 09:06:03 EDT From: IFLYKRS@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> 2004 Gathering points of origin To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" I live in Valdosta GA. If you are driving through here you are welcomed to stop in. Bill ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 09:21:13 -0400 From: "Orma" Subject: Re: KR> Fw: Crosswind limitations KR2 To: "Mac McConnell-Wood" , "KRnet" Message-ID: <001801c4b515$59dfdb00$6c34d445@ROBBINS1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" a crosswind gust of about 10 mph Hello Mac I have always been told that 10 Kts at 90 Degrees was the max crosswind for a KR. I have flown mine and landed at 23 gusting to 35. I do feel that a gust of 10 when you are low to the ground and unsuspecting it could do a lot to put you off to the side of the runway. In fact although I landed mine in a high crosswind, the 35 knot gust ripped off my canopy after I had parked. I don't feel that the standard KR reacts fast enough to a roll input at touchdown speed. Especially if it is at or below stall speed in ground effect. Being rusty or unfamiliar with the KR would not help. There are lots of other KR drivers with other experiences, hopefully they will express theirs. Orma Southfield, MI N110LR celebrating 20 years Flying, flying and more flying http://www.kr-2.aviation-mechanics.com/ ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 08:27:53 -0500 From: larry flesner Subject: KR> : Crosswind limitations KR2 To: Mac McConnell-Wood ,KRnet Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041018082753.007cdd70@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >My test pilot was caught out yesterday by a crosswind gust of about 10 >mph which he couldn't hold.He's an ex airforce test pilot (128 types including airships!) I'm just wondering if he's a bit rusty on tail draggers ,as I never had any problems. What is the consensus on crosswind limitations for a standard tail dragger KR2? Thanks as always, Mac G-BVZJ UK >_______________________________________ The correct answer ought to be "when you run out of rudder to keep the nose straight with the wing down". It's the gusts that seem to nail me with the KR. I flew Saturday with wind 15G23 and landed with the wind at 30 to 50 degrees to the runway. It wasn't pretty but I didn't break anything either. A Bonanza landing behind me had to make a "go-around" the first approach before dropping it in the second time. My next "attempted landing" had the wind at closer to 90 degrees to the runway. Just into the flare I caught a gust and must have ballooned up five feet or more. I was going to let it settle back down and re-flare but right about then a really nasty gust caught me and was moving me sideways at a good clip. I called the whole thing off with full power and headed to the local airport with a runway more into the wind. The KR spent the rest of the day in the hangar. With gusty headwinds right down the runway I'd advise keeping the tail up and the mains planted until you can't hold the tail up any longer. If you dont', a gust can have you airborn again in a split second and you can't "pucker" tight enough to keep you airborn when the gust quits. :-) My opinion is that the KR, with it's lighter weight, will react more quickly to the wind. This makes it more difficult to control than a heaver airplane. In the wind on Saturday, the KR responded to every control input I gave it but the wind was tossing me around like a leaf. Even a quartering crosswind can put you back in the air with a gust. You think the airplane is down (it is) but a gust will have you flying again. The real answer, within limitations, is whatever the pilot can handle. Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 07:37:34 -0700 From: "Steve Glover" Subject: RE: KR> Fw: Crosswind limitations KR2 To: "Mac McConnell-Wood" , "KRnet" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Mac wrote: >My test pilot was caught out yesterday by a crosswind gust of about 10 >mph which he couldn't hold. During my trip to the Gathering and back with Richard Shirley, we encountered some pretty heavy crosswinds. In Morriarty, NM we had a crosswind that was 15 - 18 with gusts to 21. While the landing wasn't pretty it certainly was doable. We seem to get 6 - 10 mph crosswinds as the norm in the areas I fly. My KR handles them very well, probably better than me. Steve Glover KR-2 N902G AJO, Ca ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 17:53:22 -0400 From: "Colin & Bev Rainey" Subject: KR> Crosswind components To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <016701c4b55c$e34560d0$2d432141@RaineyDay> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Netters I agree with Larry but would like to clear up a misconception. The listed crosswind landing for a particular aircraft is NOT the maximum crosswind that the aircraft can be safely landed in, it is the maximum demonstrated crosswind landing by an experienced pilot during certification of the aircraft. This is a requirement by the FAA so that pilots not familiar with the aircraft or low in experience have some basis to judge whether a landing should be attempted or not. Most General Aviation aircraft I have flown have a demonstrated crosswind landing of between 15 and 17 knots at 90 degrees to the runway. I have safely landed C152s and C172s in 20 to 30 knot winds by raising approach speeds appropriately and landing without flaps etc... Heavier twins can be landed in normal configuration with only slight approach speed modification. Larry is right in that most of a crosswind landing relies on the pilot's ability to manage the crosswind, gusts, and so forth, and his knowledge of the aircraft. Not to put your Air Force guy down, but it sounds like his small plane currency was not what it should be, which is typical of jet type pilots. They will get 100 types under their belt, but still only have 3 to 4 small single engine light planes worth of experience. If I were to select a different test pilot than myself, it would not be a pilot from the Professional Pilot ranks unless his job was being a test pilot of small aircraft. My selection would be one who has many hours flying small aircraft on a regular basis at the airport to flown out of, in aircraft similar to the one to be flown. Finding a Flying Club pilot who owns a Pitts or something like that would be a better choice. Though he doesn't have the full logbook, he is more familiar with the type and its unique behavior. His reactions are going to be more appropriate, and on time, and he will know the airport and area. As much as anything is the reducing of the work overload potential on the initial test flights when all the focus needs to be on paying attention to the airplane and flying it, not learning the area, having to adjust to the approach, the wind characteristics, etc... Sounds like your guy just bit off alittle more than he could chew. If he blames it on the aircraft I would be suspicious that he is overflying his abilities and find someone else. If he admits it, respect him and develop a plan to adapt the test program so that he can become proficient. FLY SAFE! Colin & Bev Rainey KR2(td) N96TA Sanford, FL crainey1@cfl.rr.com http://kr-builder.org/Colin/index.html ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 19:18:27 -0400 From: "Brian Kraut" Subject: RE: KR> Fw: Crosswind limitations KR2 To: "Mac McConnell-Wood" , "KRnet" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I did a few touch and gos in my KR with about a 10 MPH gusting crosswind. It was not fun, but it was doable. I probably only had about 25 hours in the plane at the time. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces+brian.kraut=engalt.com@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces+brian.kraut=engalt.com@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Mac McConnell-Wood Sent: Monday, October 18, 2004 4:51 AM To: KR builders and pilots Subject: KR> Fw: Crosswind limitations KR2 ----- Original Message ----- From: Mac McConnell-Wood To: KRnet@mailinglists.org Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2004 11:40 AM Subject: Crosswind limitations KR2 My test pilot was caught out yesterday by a crosswind gust of about 10 mph which he couldn't hold.He's an ex airforce test pilot (128 types including airships!) I'm just wondering if he's a bit rusty on tail draggers ,as I never had any problems. What is the consensus on crosswind limitations for a standard tail dragger KR2? Thanks as always, Mac G-BVZJ UK _______________________________________ to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 19:57:09 EDT From: IFLYKRS@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> for Colin To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <159.42171acd.2ea5b255@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Colin - where in FL are you located in reference to me ( Valdosta, GA) - are you flying? Some of us down here are thinking of a winter fly-in for Krs in the sunny weather here down south. Thoughts? Bill ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 20:14:42 EDT From: FIXERJONES@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> for Colin To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <193.31434c07.2ea5b672@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" if there's a fly.in in fl, count me in,,n212kr ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 20:22:10 EDT From: IFLYKRS@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> Fixerjones To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <78.638ff9ac.2ea5b832@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" WHere are you located and how do we contact you? Bill ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 21:22:15 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: KR> Gathering photos, finally... To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <1cde01c4b582$9c7a1940$1202a8c0@basement> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" KRNetHeads, OK, I'm a little late with these, but my Gathering photos are at http://www.krnet.org/mvn2004/ . You'll be happy to know that I only published about a fifth of the 700 that I took! And if you think the quality of the photos isn't so great, it's because they are reduced and compressed by an average factor of 120x, so the slow modem guys won't choke on them. It was a great Gathering, and I'm really looking forward to next year's event, when several more of us "next generation" KR flyers will be flying in... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama N56ML "at" hiwaay.net see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 23:16:36 -0400 From: "Brian Kraut" Subject: RE: KR> Gathering photos, finally... To: "KRnet" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I noticed that the KR I sold to Brett from Hog Air made it to the gathering after I left and was sold. Did anyone catch the name of the buyer? Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 23:43:00 -0400 From: "Ron Freiberger" Subject: RE: KR> Fixerjones To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <000a01c4b58d$c018e650$7819c944@disoganized> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" WHere are you located and how do we contact you? Bill Cape Coral, FL ... Where are you? Ron Freiberger mail to rfreiberger at swfla.rr.com <- substitute an @ sign ;o) ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 23:47:17 EDT From: IFLYKRS@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> Fixerjones - Southern Fly In To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <7d.5ac7ca5e.2ea5e845@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Hi Ron - this is Bill Clapp - Im in Valdosta Georgia. We are hoping to do some sort of souther fly in sometime soon. Ill keep you posted. 229-242-2978 Bill ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 23:50:35 EDT From: IFLYKRS@aol.com Subject: KR> southern fly -in ? To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <1e1.2ce09355.2ea5e90b@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" By the by - there will be a get together November 14th ( that weekend) at William Wynnes Corvair College in Massey Ranch Florida. I believe there will be a couple Corvair KRs and Peitenpols there but Im sure that any KR would be welcome to stop in. So if you can make it let me know. Bill Clapp ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 346, Issue 170 *************************************** ================================== ABC Amber Outlook Converter v4.20 Trial version ==================================