From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net To: John Bouyea Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 346, Issue 200 Date: 11/9/2004 8:59:25 PM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. RE: Regestered repairable kr2s for sale (Brian Kraut) 2. Re: Don Reid (Donald Reid) 3. Re: New Airfoil on KR-1 (JAMES FERRIS) 4. Re: New Airfoil on KR-1 (Dana Overall) 5. RE: New Airfoil on KR-1 (Doug Rupert) 6. Re: New Airfoil on KR-1 (JAMES FERRIS) 7. Re: New Airfoil on KR-1 (Dana Overall) 8. Re: New Airfoil on KR-1 (JAMES FERRIS) 9. KR kit for sale (Kevin Jarvis) 10. Engines (patrick36@usfamily.net) 11. Re: KR kit for sale (JAMES FERRIS) 12. KR-2 kit for sale on EBAY (Kevin Jarvis) 13. Re: KR-2 kit for sale on EBAY (Mark Jones) 14. Re: New Airfoil on KR-1 (James R Freeman) 15. Re: New Airfoil on KR-1 (James R Freeman) 16. Re: KR-2 kit for sale on EBAY (Orma) 17. Re: KR-2 kit for sale on EBAY (robert glidden) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 08:18:17 -0500 From: "Brian Kraut" Subject: RE: KR> Regestered repairable kr2s for sale To: "KRnet" , Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" How much for the KLX135 and is it new? Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On Behalf Of j stevens Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 8:57 PM To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR> Regestered repairable kr2s for sale Hi I have a repairable kr2s for sale . I live in Minnesota and need to sell it soon as possable as I lost my hanger space. I will consider any offer, A list of some of the parts is attached. Please contact me through my email or phone number. Thanks Joel jes@usfamily.net (651)774-1563 ------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $8.99/mo! ------ ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 08:49:06 -0500 From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR> Don Reid To: KRnet Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20041109082703.01abfb88@mail.peoplepc.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 08:50 AM 11/5/2004, you wrote: >-----Original Message----- > >Don > >Can teel us why you went for a longer chord? > >What are the advanages you gained and at what cost, proformance wise? My KR based plane was designed for a gross of 1450 pounds. I wanted to keep approximately the same wing loading. The plans built KR 2 has a wing loading of about 11 lb/ft^2 and the 2S is a little higher. Mine will be 14.5 lb/ft^2. I also increased the span so that the span loading would also be comparable. I finalized the design before I really started studying airfoil design and I simply picked one of the best NACA airfoils. If I were to do it all over, I would design my own airfoil to meet my needs. The NACA 747a315 that I picked has a reasonably low drag, gentle stall, is resistant to bug debris, and has an extremely low pitch moment. Most airfoils have a higher (more negative) pitch moment. This must be counteracted with additional download at the tail. This download is a negative lift that acts just like the plane has a higher gross weight. The low drag and negligible pitch moment will result in a low overall drag. That is, a plane with wing that has a low drag coefficient but a high pitch moment can have a higher overall drag than one with a higher drag and lower pitch. I think that the performance will be comparable. I am also spending a lot of time with drag reduction by surface finish, tolerance of gaps and part fit, and engine cooling, among others. If I do it right, I hope that I will be able to keep up with any KR. Don Reid - donreid "at" peoplepc.com Bumpass, Va Visit my web sites at: AeroFoil, a 2-D Airfoil Design And Analysis Computer Program: http://www.eaa231.org/AeroFoil/index.htm KR2XL construction: http://users.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm Aviation Surplus: http://users.erols.com/donreid/Airparts.htm EAA Chapter 231: http://eaa231.org Ultralights: http://usua250.org VA EAA State Fly-in: http://vaeaa.org ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 12:54:49 -0500 From: JAMES FERRIS Subject: Re: KR> New Airfoil on KR-1 To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20041109.125450.780.1.mijnil@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii John: these airfoils would work on the KR1 as well as the Kr2 but there iann even better that has laminar flow as far back as 70% chord and was flight tested in the late eighties by NASA an was considersd to be the major advancement of the year it was testsd. I am not sure but I think it was the NLF(1) 0414F designed by Jeff Viken, iwill check it out and get the coordinates. Jim On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 22:15:16 -0400 "John Lindner" writes: > Netters- > > I'm planning on building a KR-1 sometime in the future, and the new > airfoil occurred to me as an alternative to the dated RAF48. I know > the new wing has been successfully used on a KR2S, but I've never > heard of it being used on the -1. I believe the RAF48 came off the > -1 and went to the -2 to begin with, so it seems logical that the > new wing would work on the KR-1 with the original size dimensions. > Thoughts? > > I'm no aeronautical engineer, and I know many of you are happy to > share your knowledge (and scathing remarks ;-), so I have donned my > HazMat suit. Flame away. > > John Lindner > > > > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 13:34:35 -0500 From: "Dana Overall" Subject: Re: KR> New Airfoil on KR-1 To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: JAMES FERRIS > >John: these airfoils would work on the KR1 as well as the Kr2 but there >iann even better that has laminar flo Jim, The big questions are, was that NASA airfoil designed with the KR in mind and was that airfoil wind tunnel tested per KR flight envelope? We who donated to the research and wind tunnel funding along with designers would like to know the answers to those two questions:-).............could be we wasted our time and money Dana Overall 1999 & 2000 National KR Gathering host Richmond, KY i39 RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" Finish kit 13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon. http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero1.jpg http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero3.jpg http://rvflying.tripod.com/blackrudder.jpg do not archive ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 13:50:02 -0500 From: "Doug Rupert" Subject: RE: KR> New Airfoil on KR-1 To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <002101c4c68c$ec1a8aa0$1f6cd1d8@office> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dana it shouldn't be hard to find out with a quick search of the NACA database and review of test conditions. They are usually quite thorough and who knows the airfoil in question may just have some merit for those that have specific missions in mind for their particular project. (i.e. top speed or short field capabilities) May be well worth the effort checking this one out. Had it not been for you guys putting up the money and time in testing the AS series airfoil most would still be operating with the antiquated RAF48 version. Doug Rupert ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 14:50:01 -0500 From: JAMES FERRIS Subject: Re: KR> New Airfoil on KR-1 To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20041109.145001.780.3.mijnil@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii The airfoil was designed for the VK-30 but was tested on a cessna 210, its true the Reynolds number is higher, but in the Reynolds number range from R=1.000,000 to R=12.000,000 the results between a turbulent flow airfoil (RAF48) and the laminar flow airfoils (NLF 10414F) and AS5048 would be similar. You have 40counts of drag for the AS5048 at the design lift-coefficient and 50 counts of for the RAF48 this is a 20% reduction and many aerodynautical engineers would die for a reduction like that so you guys diden't waste any money. Jim On Tue, 09 Nov 2004 13:34:35 -0500 "Dana Overall" writes: > >From: JAMES FERRIS > > > >John: these airfoils would work on the KR1 as well as the Kr2 but > there > >iann even better that has laminar flo > > > Jim, > > The big questions are, was that NASA airfoil designed with the KR in > mind > and was that airfoil wind tunnel tested per KR flight envelope? > > We who donated to the research and wind tunnel funding along with > designers > would like to > know the answers to those two questions:-).............could be we > wasted > our time and money > > > > Dana Overall > 1999 & 2000 National KR Gathering host > Richmond, KY i39 > RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" > Finish kit > 13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon. > http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero1.jpg > http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero3.jpg > http://rvflying.tripod.com/blackrudder.jpg > do not archive > > > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 15:55:55 -0500 From: "Dana Overall" Subject: Re: KR> New Airfoil on KR-1 To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed know the answers to those two questions:-).............could be we >wasted our time and money > > I knew the answer...........I was only kidding. I just hate to see people reinvent the wheel, although that is what a lot of RAF48 drivers thought we were doing with the new airfoil.............so invent away!! Dana Overall 1999 & 2000 National KR Gathering host Richmond, KY i39 RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" Finish kit 13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon. http://rvflying.tripod.com http://rvflying.tripod.com/blackrudder.jpg do not archive ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 16:18:44 -0500 From: JAMES FERRIS Subject: Re: KR> New Airfoil on KR-1 To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20041109.161845.1228.0.mijnil@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Actually I made a gross error in my last transmission. I wrote that the drag coefficient for the RAF48 was 50 counts when it is really 60 counts compared to the 40 counts of the AS5048, a 40% reduction which is fantastic, I got to thinking of what I had written and I could not think of any turbulent airfoil with less than 60 counts of drag. Jim On Tue, 09 Nov 2004 15:55:55 -0500 "Dana Overall" writes: > > know the answers to those two questions:-).............could be we > >wasted our time and money > > > > > > I knew the answer...........I was only kidding. I just hate to see > people > reinvent the wheel, although that is what a lot of RAF48 drivers > thought we > were doing with the new airfoil.............so invent away!! > > > Dana Overall > 1999 & 2000 National KR Gathering host > Richmond, KY i39 > RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" > Finish kit > 13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon. http://rvflying.tripod.com > http://rvflying.tripod.com/blackrudder.jpg > do not archive > > > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 15:34:31 -0600 From: Kevin Jarvis Subject: KR> KR kit for sale To: "krnet@mylist.net" Message-ID: <419137E7.5030803@MCHSI.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed There is a kit and misc. parts for sale on EBAY ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 15:50:22 -0600 From: Subject: KR> Engines To: "KR Mailing list" Message-ID: <000c01c4c6a6$1da5ea60$560a5292@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Check these out T1228R T1127RB T0326RB T0112RH T0112RD T0608RD 64 Engine Bloc & Bell T0828ZH Don't know the guy. This appeared in the monthly corvair club newsletter. You can call him direct for info. Jerry Berge (320) 684-2657 I believe he is in Minneapolis, MN Pat Driscoll Saint Paul, MN 55102 patrick36@usfamily.net ------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $8.99/mo! ------ ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 17:16:23 -0500 From: JAMES FERRIS Subject: Re: KR> KR kit for sale To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20041109.171623.1228.1.mijnil@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Can' find it, what is the number? On Tue, 09 Nov 2004 15:34:31 -0600 Kevin Jarvis writes: > There is a kit and misc. parts for sale on EBAY > > > > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 16:32:48 -0600 From: Kevin Jarvis Subject: KR> KR-2 kit for sale on EBAY To: "krnet@mylist.net" Message-ID: <41914590.3030800@MCHSI.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed There is a kit and misc. parts for sale on EBAY, it is item 4502924577. A search on "KR-2" without the quotes finds it. $3,000 starting bid, no reserve, buy now for $6,000 seller says, "THIS IS THE DEAL OF A LIFE TIME. !! " I have no reason to doubt him. And that the owner went to a nursing home and won't be back. That should motivate some people here to finish their own, ..huh ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 16:55:40 -0600 From: "Mark Jones" Subject: Re: KR> KR-2 kit for sale on EBAY To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <000701c4c6af$40ebfb00$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" This guy is advertising that "with two months work and you could be flying this airplane". I almost fell off my chair laughing. Maybe he meant to say two years work. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Jarvis" Subject: KR> KR-2 kit for sale on EBAY > There is a kit and misc. parts for sale on EBAY, > it is item 4502924577. ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 18:21:29 -0500 From: James R Freeman Subject: Re: KR> New Airfoil on KR-1 To: KRnet Message-ID: <019601c4c6b3$001c8050$54d790cf@HPNOTEBOOK> Content-Type: text/plain; reply-type=original; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Dana: No money was wasted on the AS airfoils! The NLF(1) 0414F was wind tunnel run in 1985, I think.,by Dr. Sinha. I will check with Jerry Stlies, the test pilot for this airfoil next time he calls.. I do not like the stall of this airfoil. You have a v tail bonny ( AKA doctor killer ) so You know about quick stalls. This airfoil and it's mod. the Rocs R1145MS are great for canards. Don Reid may chime in as he did a lot of modeling on the ELF(1) 0414F. But he went with the NACA747A314 on his KR-SXL. Several weeks back I did stop at the K.S.P. post in Richmond and got direction to Your house but no one was home. I was going to chew the fat and BS. Jim Freeman 1919 Pig Skin RD Stearns, KY 42647 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dana Overall" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 1:34 PM Subject: Re: KR> New Airfoil on KR-1 > >From: JAMES FERRIS >> >>John: these airfoils would work on the KR1 as well as the Kr2 but >>there iann even better that has laminar flo > > > Jim, > > The big questions are, was that NASA airfoil designed with the KR in > mind and was that airfoil wind tunnel tested per KR flight envelope? > > We who donated to the research and wind tunnel funding along with > designers > would like to > know the answers to those two questions:-).............could be we wasted > our time and money > > > > Dana Overall > 1999 & 2000 National KR Gathering host > Richmond, KY i39 > RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" > Finish kit > 13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon. > http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero1.jpg > http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero3.jpg > http://rvflying.tripod.com/blackrudder.jpg > do not archive > > > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 18:29:47 -0500 From: James R Freeman Subject: Re: KR> New Airfoil on KR-1 To: KRnet Message-ID: <01a301c4c6b4$01bdded0$54d790cf@HPNOTEBOOK> Content-Type: text/plain; reply-type=original; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed correction Roncz R1145MS ----- Original Message ----- From: "James R Freeman" To: "KRnet" Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 6:21 PM Subject: Re: KR> New Airfoil on KR-1 > Dana: > > No money was wasted on the AS airfoils! > > The NLF(1) 0414F was wind tunnel run in 1985, I think.,by Dr. > Sinha. I will check with Jerry Stlies, the test pilot for this > airfoil next time he calls.. I do not like the stall of this airfoil. > You have a v tail bonny ( AKA doctor killer ) so You know about quick > stalls. This airfoil and it's mod. the Rocs R1145MS are great for > canards. > > Don Reid may chime in as he did a lot of modeling on the ELF(1) > 0414F. But he went with the NACA747A314 on his KR-SXL. > > Several weeks back I did stop at the K.S.P. post in Richmond and > got direction to Your house but no one was home. I was going to chew > the fat and BS. > > > > Jim Freeman > > > 1919 Pig Skin RD > > > Stearns, KY > > > 42647 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dana Overall" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 1:34 PM > Subject: Re: KR> New Airfoil on KR-1 > > >> >From: JAMES FERRIS >>> >>>John: these airfoils would work on the KR1 as well as the Kr2 but >>>there iann even better that has laminar flo >> >> >> Jim, >> >> The big questions are, was that NASA airfoil designed with the KR in >> mind and was that airfoil wind tunnel tested per KR flight envelope? >> >> We who donated to the research and wind tunnel funding along with >> designers would like to >> know the answers to those two questions:-).............could be we wasted >> our time and money >> >> >> >> Dana Overall >> 1999 & 2000 National KR Gathering host >> Richmond, KY i39 >> RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" >> Finish kit >> 13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon. >> http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero1.jpg >> http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero3.jpg >> http://rvflying.tripod.com/blackrudder.jpg >> do not archive >> >> >> >> _______________________________________ >> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net >> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html >> > > > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 19:25:51 -0500 From: "Orma" Subject: Re: KR> KR-2 kit for sale on EBAY To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <004a01c4c6bb$d6f745d0$b7a6ff44@ROBBINS1> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original "I almost fell off my chair laughing." I has a look at the pictures on the EBay site. There was a boat sitting on tires, rudder, elevator and H/S. The spars were in another picture. Looks like a type 3 in a box, and a crank in another box and yet a third box with some flight instruments. The seller says he has other pictures if you e-mail him. If WYSIWYG, then $3000 might be too much. He listed all the RR spec's in a long list, perhaps he should list all the available parts in a long list. Orma Southfield, MI N110LR celebrating 20 years Flying, flying and more flying http://www.kr-2.aviation-mechanics.com/ ------------------------------ Message: 17 Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 21:08:56 -0500 From: "robert glidden" Subject: Re: KR> KR-2 kit for sale on EBAY To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <000d01c4c6ca$3cb980a0$0c00000a@computer2> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Mark Your not making me feel good about my building time with this negative thinking..... . Maybe he meant to say > two years work. > > Mark Jones (N886MJ) > Wales, WI USA > E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com > Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at > http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kevin Jarvis" > Subject: KR> KR-2 kit for sale on EBAY > > > > There is a kit and misc. parts for sale on EBAY, > > it is item 4502924577. > > > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 346, Issue 200 *************************************** ================================== ABC Amber Outlook Converter v4.20 Trial version ==================================