From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net To: John Bouyea Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 346, Issue 203 Date: 11/12/2004 6:25:01 PM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Flaps? (Derek H. Hudeck) 2. batteries (Lee Van Dyke) 3. Re: batteries (Barry Kruyssen) 4. Batteries (JIM VANCE) 5. Batteries (Colin & Bev Rainey) 6. Flaps (Colin & Bev Rainey) 7. Re: Flaps? (Orma) 8. RE: batteries (Mark Jones) 9. Re: Flaps? (Robert L. Stone) 10. RE: Flaps? / Belly Board (Mark Jones) 11. Facet Fuel Pump #40108 (Mark Jones) 12. Using your spare lead for a good purpose (Oscar Zuniga) 13. Re: Facet Fuel Pump #40108 (Ed Janssen) 14. Thanks Everyone! (Derek H. Hudeck) 15. RE: Facet Fuel Pump #40108 (Mark Jones) 16. Re: ailerons (RENOSADLER@aol.com) 17. RE: ailerons (Mark Jones) 18. RE: Facet Fuel Pump #40108 (Matthew Elder) 19. how many bolts attaching piano hing to back of spruce spar (Dan Heath) 20. Re: Thanks Everyone! (JAMES FERRIS) 21. facet fuel pumps (Don Chisholm) 22. IFR KR (larry flesner) 23. Facet Fuel Pump #40108 (larry flesner) 24. kr stuff for sale (Don Chisholm) 25. Facet #40108 (Mark Jones) 26. Re: Batterys (paulwasp@webtv.net) 27. Re: KR2 Parts For Sale (Ballsofbugs@aol.com) 28. RE: Facet #40108 (Brian Kraut) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 23:09:08 -0600 (CST) From: "Derek H. Hudeck" Subject: KR> Flaps? To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <61519.69.150.23.183.1100236148.squirrel@69.150.23.183> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Hello, I have read mixed messages regarding flaps on the KR-2. Does the standard kit include flaps in the plans? If so are they any good? Are there any popular ways to improve them? Thank you. Derek Hudeck ----------------------------------------- This email was sent using SamMail. Sam Houston State University ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 23:00:23 -0700 From: "Lee Van Dyke" Subject: KR> batteries To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <00dd01c4c87c$e60f7890$6501a8c0@SNAKEBITE> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hey net, I have checked the archives, and didn't get the information i was lookikng for. what seems to be the best battery a KR2 with a VW 1835?? Lee Van Dyke Mesa AZ Lee@vandyke5.com ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 16:53:55 +1000 From: "Barry Kruyssen" Subject: Re: KR> batteries To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <020c01c4c884$62412010$5b00a8c0@technologyonecorp.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" You want an ODYSSEY battery for any/every engine, they are small, lightish :-) and heaps of cranking power. They are great, I already have one for my plane, wouldn't use anything else. See http://www.odysseyfactory.com/ for more info. Barry Kruyssen Cairns, Australia RAA 19-3873 kr2@BigPond.com http://users.tpg.com.au/barryk/KR2.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: Lee Van Dyke Hey net, I have checked the archives, and didn't get the information i was lookikng for. what seems to be the best battery a KR2 with a VW 1835?? ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 04:41:43 -0600 From: "JIM VANCE" Subject: KR> Batteries To: "krnet" Message-ID: <003201c4c8a6$03bc1280$0800a8c0@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Lee Van Dyke asked what type of battery to use in a KR with a 1835 VW engine. Lee, I have a 1835 Great Plains VW in my KR-2. I have a 14 ampere-hour battery that I bought from B and C Specialty. It is a sealed starved electolyte lead battery. It is 5.88 inches wide, 5.63 inches high, and 3.43 inches deep. It has plenty of crank power for my VW and didn't have to be recharged while I was checking all of the electrical and running the engine on the starter to lube everything before I started it for the first time. Their part number was BC114-1 and the cost was $112 including shipping. You can see their selection of batteries at b and c specialty.com. If you have any questions, contact Todd at Todd@bandcspecialty.com. Jim Vance Vance@ClaflinWildcats.com ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 06:33:52 -0500 From: "Colin & Bev Rainey" Subject: KR> Batteries To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <008c01c4c8ab$7cf91d00$2d432141@RaineyDay> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I bought a battery from Walmart that is one of their Everstart brand and is made for motorcycles or lawn tractors, 12 volt nearly 400 cranking amps. You just have to put the electrolyte in your self and charge it fully before using it. Be careful...they switch the poles from make to make! Don't ask how I know this... Colin & Bev Rainey KR2(td) N96TA Sanford, FL crainey1@cfl.rr.com http://kr-builder.org/Colin/index.html ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 06:50:57 -0500 From: "Colin & Bev Rainey" Subject: KR> Flaps To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <00c501c4c8ad$dfb00a10$2d432141@RaineyDay> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Derek I have heard the RR flaps by the later addon plans are small and not as effective as pilots are used to with other aircraft. I personally do not know because I have a belly board speed brake. It would be completely and totally possible to get the best of both worlds by having the small flaps for alittle supplemental lift, which would allow slowing down more on final, and the increased drag of the belly board and down pitching moment for better visibility from both with out increasing speed. The idea of a well designed flap system on a GA ( General Aviation ) plane is to allow the pilot to create the same lift at a slower speed in order to allow him to lose more altitude in less distance, while providing better visibility for safety. This allows for the pattern to be flown close to the runway, and altitude to be maintained until the descent is begun from the pattern abeam the point of intended touchdown. An engine loss at this point virtually garuntees gliding to the runway. Engines typically do not let go when running at a level RPM away from redline, until something upsets that equilibrium, like loss of oil pressure, or major change in power setting off setting the balance with an engine that already has a hidden issue. Shock cooling is another problem which is why you should be taught to always perform a cruise descent from altitude, and power on approaches, with only some being done completely power off for practice in an emergency. But even then you should clear the engine several times during the approach in order to keep the oil circulating and the carb clear. BY keeping even alittle power on you protect the engine from making a drastic change from cruise RPM to idle abruptly. Pilots in the past found out how bad this was when they suddenly realised that they needed to go around, applied full power and the engine would let go. Flaps help this situation not occur because it allows you to be closer to the runway than you would have to be without them. I love my belly board and it doesn't have holes in it and deploys in 2 stages: 25 degrees, and 50 degrees. Colin & Bev Rainey KR2(td) N96TA Sanford, FL crainey1@cfl.rr.com http://kr-builder.org/Colin/index.html ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 08:13:09 -0500 From: "Orma" Subject: Re: KR> Flaps? To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <004201c4c8b9$5bbd8af0$b7a6ff44@ROBBINS1> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Hello Derek As to the first part about the plans, I can't answer. In days gone by, the Flap plans were sold by RR because they were added later. Perhaps someone with new plans can update that info. As for the part about the value of flaps, there has been an ongoing debate within the group as to which is better between flaps and belly boards. Mark Langford once said, perhaps a good choice is a split flap. I don't know if anyone has installed both, so as to make a real comparison on the same plane. Perhaps some of our members have flown enough KR's that he could give you an experienced answer. As for my experience, I flew my KR without flaps and installed them later. The value of flaps and the belly board from all reports is in its ability to slow the aircraft and rotate the nose down. Without flaps my original KR-2 had a landing attitude with the nose so high that the cowl blocked the forward visibility. On wide runways that was not a problem. But, on narrow runways, say 25 ft., is was difficult to maintain alignment. Without much drag, the KR would always speed up when you pointed the nose down to see. Some would say that there are tricks to landing, such as slipping . I wanted the ability to see over the nose. The standard RR retro fit flaps gave me that. In a picture perfect sort of way I enjoy watching the shadow of my KR, formed by the sun at by back, touch down on the on the runway just ahead of me. Orma Southfield, MI N110LR celebrating 20 years Flying, flying and more flying http://www.kr-2.aviation-mechanics.com/ ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 07:28:25 -0600 From: Mark Jones Subject: RE: KR> batteries To: 'KRnet' Message-ID: <370D915E4564D611B0530050DABB9FC2025ED08A@SIC-EXCHANGE> Content-Type: text/plain Barry, which model Odyssey battery do you have and what engine are you using it on? Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI -----Original Message----- From: Barry Kruyssen [mailto:kr2@bigpond.com] You want an ODYSSEY battery for any/every engine, they are small, lightish :-) and heaps of cranking power. They are great, I already have one for my plane, wouldn't use anything else. See http://www.odysseyfactory.com/ for more info. From: Lee Van Dyke Hey net, I have checked the archives, and didn't get the information i was lookikng for. what seems to be the best battery a KR2 with a VW 1835?? _______________________________________ to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 07:46:28 -0600 (Central Standard Time) From: "Robert L. Stone" Subject: Re: KR> Flaps? To: Message-ID: <4194BEB4.000004.01204@YOUR-AT5QGAAC3Z> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Derek, From all the information I have been able to gather on this, to reduce the floating effect when landing a KR-2, it not only requires flaps but a belly board as well. The flaps on the KIR-2 are only from the rear spar to the trailing edge and from the end of the wing stub to the fuselage. Really too small to be effective however I have heard many say that the belly boards compensate for the small flaps. I am sure there are many builders on the net who would be glad to furnish you with the plans for the making and installation of a belly board. Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx rstone4@hot.rr.com ------Original Message------- From: KRnet Date: 11/11/04 23:09:30 To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR> Flaps? Hello, I have read mixed messages regarding flaps on the KR-2. Does the standard kit include flaps in the plans? If so are they any good? Are there any popular ways to improve them? Thank you. Derek Hudeck ----------------------------------------- This email was sent using SamMail. Sam Houston State University _______________________________________ to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 08:39:25 -0600 From: Mark Jones Subject: RE: KR> Flaps? / Belly Board To: 'KRnet' Message-ID: <370D915E4564D611B0530050DABB9FC2025ED08D@SIC-EXCHANGE> Content-Type: text/plain Here is how I made my belly board. http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/bellyboard.html Mark Jones (N886MJ) Waiting on inspection from FSDO Wales, WI -----Original Message----- From: Robert L. Stone [mailto:rstone4@hot.rr.com] Derek, From all the information I have been able to gather on this, to reduce the floating effect when landing a KR-2, it not only requires flaps but a belly board as well. The flaps on the KIR-2 are only from the rear spar to the trailing edge and from the end of the wing stub to the fuselage. Really too small to be effective however I have heard many say that the belly boards compensate for the small flaps. I am sure there are many builders on the net who would be glad to furnish you with the plans for the making and installation of a belly board. ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 10:47:54 -0600 From: Mark Jones Subject: KR> Facet Fuel Pump #40108 To: CorvAircraft , KR Net Message-ID: <370D915E4564D611B0530050DABB9FC2025ED090@SIC-EXCHANGE> Content-Type: text/plain My question is: Do these have built in internal check valves to prevent back flow? I know for a fact that they will allow fuel to flow through and it seems that I remember mine having the internal check valve to prevent back flow but I need to know for certain. I did a search on the web and one source I found says they do and another says they do not. If anyone has one not installed can you check it by blowing through it and seeing if it prevents back flow. It is model 40108 that I need this info on. Thanks Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI Waiting on FSDO inspection. ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 11:23:09 -0600 From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR> Using your spare lead for a good purpose To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Serge wrote (about a month ago)- >Talking about lead, for those of you that have a lot of time and effort >to spare, here is a good "useful workshop thingy" to make with lead. We >always need weights of some sort for one thing or another, ranging from >keeping a roll of drawings flat on the table Here's another one for you. We very often have need to roll out drawings in the field, and it's usually windy. We've taken the magnets from ruined audio speakers and use them to hold down plan drawings on the hood of the truck when the wind is blowing or when the sheets want to roll back up. May not be too useful in the shop unless you have a metal work surface, but there it is. Some of those magnets are pretty darn big, too! Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 12:16:39 -0600 From: ejanssen@chipsnet.com (Ed Janssen) Subject: Re: KR> Facet Fuel Pump #40108 To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <002b01c4c8e3$c1b4cec0$7a00a8c0@dad> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Mark, Wicks states in their catalog that there are no internal check valves in the Facet pumps they sell - including your #40108 (page 76, 2004 catalog). Ed Ed Janssen mailto:ejanssen@chipsnet.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Jones" To: "CorvAircraft" ; "KR Net" Sent: Friday, November 12, 2004 10:47 AM Subject: KR> Facet Fuel Pump #40108 > My question is: Do these have built in internal check valves to > prevent back > flow? I know for a fact that they will allow fuel to flow through and > it seems that I remember mine having the internal check valve to > prevent back flow but I need to know for certain. I did a search on > the web and one source I found says they do and another says they do > not. If anyone has one > not installed can you check it by blowing through it and seeing if it > prevents back flow. It is model 40108 that I need this info on. Thanks > > Mark Jones (N886MJ) > Wales, WI > Waiting on FSDO inspection. > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 12:41:50 -0600 (CST) From: "Derek H. Hudeck" Subject: KR> Thanks Everyone! To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <63598.69.150.23.183.1100284910.squirrel@69.150.23.183> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Hello, I wanted to write the group and say thank you for all of your responses to my flap questions. That was my first email to the group and I was surprised by the helpful responses. I was also wondering if anyone that has a KR-2 lives in the Houston/Huntsville, TX area. I am very interested in building/buying one but I want to see one and find out as much as possible before I commit. Also, would it be possible to have an IFR capable KR-2? Thanks again. Derek Hudeck ----------------------------------------- This email was sent using SamMail. Sam Houston State University ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 12:46:02 -0600 From: Mark Jones Subject: RE: KR> Facet Fuel Pump #40108 To: 'KRnet' Message-ID: <370D915E4564D611B0530050DABB9FC2025ED091@SIC-EXCHANGE> Content-Type: text/plain Yes, I see that, but when I bought mine, I could not blow air back through it and I did a search on the KR Net and found a post where Larry Flesner did not use check valves because his had internal checks and I also found a post where I stated the same thing...now I am wondering. The reason I am questioning this is that I now have both wing tanks connected to my dual facet pump arrangement which are in parallel. I am running only one Facet at a time and the other is a back up in case of pump failure. I just want to make sure I am not pumping fuel in circles. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: ejanssen@chipsnet.com [mailto:ejanssen@chipsnet.com] Mark, Wicks states in their catalog that there are no internal check valves in the Facet pumps they sell - including your #40108 (page 76, 2004 catalog). ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Jones" : KR> Facet Fuel Pump #40108 > My question is: Do these have built in internal check valves to > prevent back > flow________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________ to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 13:44:28 EST From: RENOSADLER@aol.com Subject: Re: KR>ailerons To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <1cc.2c94c3f7.2ec65e8c@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" anybody answer a quick question re ailrons how many bolts attaching piano hing to back of pruce spar and size of bolt type of nut , is the hole in the piano hinge counter sunk Thanks for all help Bill ------------------------------ Message: 17 Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 12:56:05 -0600 From: Mark Jones Subject: RE: KR>ailerons To: 'KRnet' Message-ID: <370D915E4564D611B0530050DABB9FC2025ED092@SIC-EXCHANGE> Content-Type: text/plain One 8-32 x 3/4" flat head stainless steel every 6 or 7 inches with nut plates on the back of the spars. And yes the hole on the hinge is countersank. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI -----Original Message----- From: RENOSADLER@aol.com [mailto:RENOSADLER@aol.com] Sent: Friday, November 12, 2004 12:44 PM To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>ailerons anybody answer a quick question re ailrons how many bolts attaching piano hing to back of pruce spar and size of bolt type of nut , is the hole in the piano hinge counter sunk Thanks for all help Bill _______________________________________ to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 18 Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 12:54:11 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Elder Subject: RE: KR> Facet Fuel Pump #40108 To: KRnet Message-ID: <20041112205411.86857.qmail@web13922.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I could not blow air back through it and I did a search on the KR Net and found a post here Larry Flesner did not use check valves because his had internal checks and I also found a post where I stated the same thing...now I am wondering. My fuel pump (the same #40108) does the same thing, so despite what the docs may say, it appears to have a check valve. I don't plan on using any other check valve in the system... I have found various references online to this "valve" inside being a check valve, but nothing concrete enough to say "definitely"... Matt http://kr1.infinigral.com Mark Jones wrote: Yes, I see that, but when I bought mine, I could not blow air back through it and I did a search on the KR Net and found a post where Larry Flesner did not use check valves because his had internal checks and I also found a post where I stated the same thing...now I am wondering. The reason I am questioning this is that I now have both wing tanks connected to my dual facet pump arrangement which are in parallel. I am running only one Facet at a time and the other is a back up in case of pump failure. I just want to make sure I am not pumping fuel in circles. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: ejanssen@chipsnet.com [mailto:ejanssen@chipsnet.com] Mark, Wicks states in their catalog that there are no internal check valves in the Facet pumps they sell - including your #40108 (page 76, 2004 catalog). ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Jones" : KR> Facet Fuel Pump #40108 > My question is: Do these have built in internal check valves to > prevent back > flow________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________ to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html _______________________________________ to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------------------------- Matthew Elder Orangeburg, SC http://www.infinigral.com/melder ------------------------------ Message: 19 Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 17:11:51 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" Subject: KR> how many bolts attaching piano hing to back of spruce spar To: "krnet@mylist.net" Message-ID: <41953527.000001.02688@DANHOMECOMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I have 14, 28 per aileron, 3/4 phillips flat head Wicks part number MS24693-S52 countersunk into the hinge. There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for building has expired. See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC See you in Mt. Vernon - 2005 - KR Gathering ------------------------------ Message: 20 Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 17:11:48 -0500 From: JAMES FERRIS Subject: Re: KR> Thanks Everyone! To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20041112.171148.876.0.mijnil@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Your in luck: there is one in Katy Tx right under your nose its been lister in Barnstormers .com. page 49 by Jim Foster phone 281)391-7994. also one in ok, Alan Kibert Phone (918)452-3327, 3.5K ,also i Barnstormer.com. Jim On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 12:41:50 -0600 (CST) "Derek H. Hudeck" writes: > Hello, > I wanted to write the group and say thank you for all of your > responses > to my flap questions. That was my first email to the group and I > was > surprised by the helpful responses. I was also wondering if anyone > that > has a KR-2 lives in the Houston/Huntsville, TX area. I am very > interested in building/buying one but I want to see one and find out > as > much as possible before I commit. Also, would it be possible to have > an > IFR capable KR-2? Thanks again. > > Derek Hudeck > > > ----------------------------------------- > This email was sent using SamMail. > Sam Houston State University > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > ------------------------------ Message: 21 Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 18:23:50 -0500 (EST) From: Don Chisholm Subject: KR> facet fuel pumps To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20041112232350.14835.qmail@web88004.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii on my KR1 I have two fuel pumps to transfer fuel to my header tank from my wing tanks. I use one way check valves to keep fuel going in the direction I want . Aircraft Spruce has them in fuel supply section P/N 10630 or 05-29555 Don Chisholm chizmsupholstery@rogers.com ------------------------------ Message: 22 Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 17:32:28 -0600 From: larry flesner Subject: KR> IFR KR To: KRnet Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041112173228.007ee4f0@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" . Also, would it be possible to have an >IFR capable KR-2? Thanks again. > >Derek Hudeck ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Anythings possible but the general census is the KR is not a good IFR platform. If you need IFR capabilities you probably ought to look at something other than the KR. Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Message: 23 Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 17:32:53 -0600 From: larry flesner Subject: KR> Facet Fuel Pump #40108 To: KRnet Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041112173253.007c0740@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:47 AM 11/12/04 -0600, you wrote: >My question is: Do these have built in internal check valves to prevent >back flow? Mark Jones +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Mark, I had the same concern when designing my parallel pump system. I don't know what my pump numbers are but they are the $29 units from Wick's. I think they are more now but you get the point. Anyway, I hooked the two pumps together "output" to "output" and tried to use one pump to reverse flow pump through the other. Neither pump allowed reverse flow. After that test I eliminated the check valves I had planned to install. My system uses two parallel pumps and wing tanks only. My fuel pressure guage reads about 6 pounds pressure with one pump and about 7 with the other pump. These were supposes to be the 3 to 5 pound pressure pumps. Because of that I installed a fuel pressure regulator set at 4 1/2 pounds to feed the carb on the 0-200. I've never had a problem in 108 hours now. Anyone thinking of going wing tanks only really should consider a backup power system for the fuel pumps. My backup battery saved my bacon at 12 hours when a bad connection in the master switch circuit dropped out my main electrical buss. A simple flip of a switch brought the pumps back on line. More detail if anyone is interested. It's not simply hooking up an extra wire. Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Message: 24 Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 20:02:19 -0500 (EST) From: Don Chisholm Subject: KR> kr stuff for sale To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20041113010219.26946.qmail@web88001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii in case anyone is interested there are a kr2 project and converted corvair engine for sale the kr2 is in it's early stages with the fuselage, wing spars, and tail set done, the wood work looks good.the corvair engine has some running time on it and is all there already converted for aircraft use for a reasonable price contact Darryl Gilbert 519-751-1398 gca@execulink.com Don Chisholm ------------------------------ Message: 25 Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 19:12:53 -0600 From: "Mark Jones" Subject: KR> Facet #40108 To: "Corvaircraft" , "KR Net" Message-ID: <005c01c4c91d$eb8ae740$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I received a call from Steve Jones (Fixerjones) who explained the operation of the Facet in detail. To put is in plain English, the facet must have an anti back flow to be able to pump fuel. Since there is no impeller or diaphragm as in a mechanical pump, the Facet utilizes a pulse operation and the ball acts as a back flow preventer when the pump is operating. It is not a true check valve as it will bleed fuel as some of you have determined by blowing air through it, the amount of seepage is minimal and should not affect operation in a parallel set up as Larry Flesner has well proven. Steve did emphasize the fact that these Facets are very sensitive to trash getting in them and sticking the pump in an open configuration which is not detectable by listening to the pump as it will continue to sound as if it is pulsing. A solution to this is to install 40 micron filters prior to the fuel entering the pump. I have some very simple modifications to do to my dual pump system to make it safer before I fly. THANKS TO ALL who have responded to this thread. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ------------------------------ Message: 26 Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 20:30:09 -0500 From: paulwasp@webtv.net Subject: KR> Re: Batterys To: krnet@mylist.net (KRnet) Message-ID: <24333-419563A1-1448@storefull-3238.bay.webtv.net> Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Hi, all; Okay....but how much do the individual batteries weigh? http://community.webtv.net/paulwasp/paulwaspspad ------------------------------ Message: 27 Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 21:19:56 EST From: Ballsofbugs@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> KR2 Parts For Sale To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <1e8.2dd511bb.2ec6c94c@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Hi Doug, I don't seem to have your address and zip. If you would e-mail your mailing address, I will send you a check for $192.50 Jim May ------------------------------ Message: 28 Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 21:23:18 -0500 From: "Brian Kraut" Subject: RE: KR> Facet #40108 To: "KRnet" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Another thing or two to keep in mind when designing fuel systems with the Facet pumps. You shoud have the pump mounted low in the system if possible. I had one mounted on the back of my header tank to transfer fuel from the wings to the header. I did some experimenting first to see if the pump would suck up fuel through a dry line from up that high and it worked fine. In operation a few times after it was installed it refused to suck a prime through the line. A good slip with the wing of the selected tank high would usually be enough to get a prime sucked in the line and start it pumping normally, but mounting the pump lower would be a lot better. The Facet pumps restrict the fuel flow some when not running. I put one on my firewall as a boost pump for the header tank and found that it restricted fuel flow enough when it was not running that I couldn't throtle past half before the engine would start coughing. I measured the fuel flow and then removed the pump and increase the flow by over double what it was going through the pump when it was not running. Keep the odd shortcomings in mind and the pumps work very good. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 346, Issue 203 *************************************** ================================== ABC Amber Outlook Converter v4.20 Trial version ==================================