From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net To: John Bouyea Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 346, Issue 240 Date: 12/14/2004 8:59:08 PM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Weight and Balance (ECLarsen81@aol.com) 2. Re: elevator counterbalance (patrusso) 3. RE: Weight and Balance (francis fenlason) 4. Lift and flight wind tunnel tested (larry severson) 5. RE: elevator counterbalance (Ron Freiberger) 6. RE: Weight and Balance (Dan Heath) 7. Weight and Balance (ronevogt@cox.net) 8. Re: Lift and flight wind tunnel tested (raybeth123@sbcglobal.net) 9. Re: Weight and Balance (Orma) 10. Re: Weight and Balance (Mike Turner) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 00:42:41 EST From: ECLarsen81@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> Weight and Balance To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" In a message dated 12/13/2004 8:45:23 AM Eastern Standard Time, VANCE@CLAFLINWILDCATS.COM writes: before I rent the scales. Jim, Before you rent scales, check at the local auto parts/speed shops and find a guy that drives circle track, most likely he has a nice digital set and would be more than happy to see your project and give you a hand. Might require looking at his toy too. Cheers, Ed Larsen Ypsi, MI ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 05:35:44 -0500 From: "patrusso" Subject: Re: KR> elevator counterbalance To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <002501c4e1c8$ab6d6ac0$23a772d8@3z4xt01> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Yes John, I have done just that. I then embedded my lead in the portion ahead of the hinge line, using lead sheet aquired at the lumber yard (used as roof flashing). You can epoxy this sheet into various thicknesses depending on how much weight you need and use tin snips to cut to desired shape and then drill hole thru it to shed excess weight as you are balancing it. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Lindner" To: "KRnet" Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 5:25 PM Subject: KR> elevator counterbalance > to get rid of > the spruce tips, and stick a piece of foam (to be covered in CF)on the > end that would extend all the way to the leading edge of the elevator > . Has anyone done this? If anyone has added counterbalances of some > kind, please > let me know. Thanks alot guys. > > John Lindner > jrlindner@comcast.net > > ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 10:33:12 -0600 From: "francis fenlason" Subject: RE: KR> Weight and Balance To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <000001c4e1fa$9aecf2b0$6401a8c0@primelibrary> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net] On Behalf Of Barry Kruyssen Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 4:56 PM To: KRnet Subject: Re: KR> Weight and Balance Hi Jim, Before getting certified scales I've done a weights and balances using 3 bath room scales.>>> If you are using bathroom scale, use something to reinforce the top of the scale. I didn't and I had to but another scale. Other wise I did as you suggested and felt I came out well at the stage I'm at. Also be careful when you bring the plane to flight attitude, if you drop it, it may fall on its nose. Russ Breckenridge ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 08:47:12 -0800 From: larry severson Subject: KR> Lift and flight wind tunnel tested To: kRnet Cc: q-LIST@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20041214084246.02dc4c78@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed For those who really want to know, this should be the definitive end to all arguments about lift, drag due to lift, and the impact of winglets. This was sent to me by a non-member, but frequent viewer of the KRnet. >Hi > >For those struggling to understand principles of lift etc I would >thoroughly recommend that they have a look at >http://www.av8n.com/how/htm/airfoils.html >which is a very interesting read. >Best regards > >Paul Larry Severson Fountain Valley, CA 92708 (714) 968-9852 larry2@socal.rr.com ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 13:04:08 -0500 From: "Ron Freiberger" Subject: RE: KR> elevator counterbalance To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <000c01c4e207$4ff2d7e0$d23aca0c@Disorganized> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" A nice way to embed lead is to use shotgun pellets in an epoxy slurry. Ron Freiberger mail to rfreiberger at swfla.rr.com <- substitute an @ sign ;o) -----Original Message----- Pat Russo said.... Yes John, I have done just that. I then embedded my lead in the portion ahead of the hinge line ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 18:49:19 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" Subject: RE: KR> Weight and Balance To: "krnet@mylist.net" Message-ID: <41BF7BFF.000009.02124@DANHOMECOMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Our chapter has made up two sets of two bathroom scales each attached under a support platform and you use your personal bathroom scale for the tail. That way, you are not trying to measure at the top end of the scale as each one will only be carrying around 150 pounds. See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for building has expired. Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC See you in Mt. Vernon - 2005 - KR Gathering ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 19:45:48 -0500 From: Subject: KR> Weight and Balance To: Message-ID: <20041215004549.FRFJ7026.fed1rmmtao10.cox.net@smtp.west.cox.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Netters; After one has "done the math", and you think you have the weight and balance close, apply a practical test to the situation. Taxi on to a long runway. Power up and go roaring down the runway. Gently apply forward pressure on the stick in order to get the tail up. Once the tail is up, apply gentle back pressure until you get the mains off. Fly about 5 feet above the runway for a short distance and make a subjective judgement concerning the correctness of your balance. If you can fly comfortably in ground effect, you will probably be OK to fly your KR out of ground effect. You may want to do this several times before you commit yourself to a trip "around the patch". Caution is the key. Don't rush into flight after having spent several years building another great KR! RV ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 19:40:28 -0600 From: Subject: Re: KR> Lift and flight wind tunnel tested To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <003c01c4e247$0efbb9b0$2a5e9445@DELL> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Larry, I took a look at the website you mentioned. I sure can't argue with what I read. I'm not sure what it said,. but for sure, I can't argue with it. You are right, this should put an end to arguments. This man is very knowledgeable. Bernouli may not have all the answers--He is easier to understand. Thanks, Ray Goree ----- Original Message ----- From: "larry severson" To: "kRnet" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 10:47 AM Subject: KR> Lift and flight wind tunnel tested > For those who really want to know, this should be the definitive end > to > all > arguments about lift, drag due to lift, and the impact of winglets. > This was sent to me by a non-member, but frequent viewer of the KRnet. > >>Hi >> >>For those struggling to understand principles of lift etc I would >>thoroughly recommend that they have a look at >>http://www.av8n.com/how/htm >>/airfoils.html >>which is a very interesting read. >>Best regards >> >>Paul > > Larry Severson > Fountain Valley, CA 92708 > (714) 968-9852 > larry2@socal.rr.com > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 21:09:35 -0500 From: "Orma" Subject: Re: KR> Weight and Balance To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <001201c4e24b$20899a90$4b32d445@ROBBINS1> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Hello Dan and Net. A similar scale trick can be done with one bath scale and a two foot board of sufficient strength, Such as a 2X6. On one end of the 2X6 needs an end board attached equal in height to the top of the scale, and the other end sits on the scale. The wheel sits at the half way point of the board. The scale will read 1/2 of the actual weight. In my opinion for no reason should you attempt lift off prior to determining the weight and balance of the aircraft with a bathroom scale or a certified aircraft scale. If you take off without a weight test you may find your nose too high, too fast and damage your craft. The KR is much too quick an aircraft to experiment with unless you are very familiar with it. Always be completely ready to fly when you go onto the runway even if only for HS taxi testing. Orma Southfield, MI N110LR celebrating 20 years Flying, flying and more flying http://www.kr-2.aviation-mechanics.com/ ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 22:00:45 -0600 From: "Mike Turner" Subject: Re: KR> Weight and Balance To: "KRnet" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" If you know the location of the mains relative to the leading edge of the of the wing you can make this determination. Let's say the mains are 8" behind the leading edge, then they are at the forward limit for the cg envelope. When empty and with the tail raised to flight position and the tail weighing nothing then your empty weight cg is at the forward limit. When you add weight such as pilot/passenger the cg moves back. Fuel, if it's a header tank will move the cg back forward so you may be pretty close. Mike Turner Jackson, Mo ----- Original Message ----- From: The Weber's To: KRnet Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 4:38 PM Subject: Re: KR> Weight and Balance On Ken Rand's original KR-2 He had minus 1/2 pound when the tail was up in the flying position. So your plane should be good. ----- Original Message ----- From: "JIM VANCE" > To: "krnet" > Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 5:04 AM Subject: KR> Weight and Balance > I have a standard conventional geared KR-2 powered by a 1915 cc GP VW with a rear drive. I have the battery mounted on the firewall at this time. > > I'm ready to weigh it, and would like to have it close to the right c of g before I rent the scales. Right now, when I bring the tail up to flight attitude, I have almost no weight on the tail. Is this an indication that it is nose heavy? Should I move the battery to behind the seats before I bother with weighing? > > I would appreciate input from those who have gone before. > > Thanks. > > Jim Vance > Vance@ClaflinWildcats.com > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 346, Issue 240 *************************************** ================================== ABC Amber Outlook Converter v4.20 Trial version ==================================