From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net To: John Bouyea Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 346, Issue 27 Date: 4/14/2004 1:57:54 PM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Declaration of ignorance. (Steve and Lori McGee) 2. Re: mini project update (Steve and Lori McGee) 3. RE: Declaration of ignorance. (Murray Gill) 4. Re: mini project update (joe) 5. RE: Declaration of ignorance. (Stephen Jacobs) 6. Static location (Colin & Bev Rainey) 7. Re: kr2S flying (Phil Matheson) 8. Re: kr2S flying (Phil Matheson) 9. Re: mini project update (Mark Jones) 10. Re-painting the aircraft (Serge F. Vidal) 11. Re: Declaration of ignorance. (Steve and Lori McGee) 12. Re: mini project update (Mark Langford) 13. Re: 2 pitot questions (Ross Youngblood) 14. Re: Re-painting the aircraft (Ross Youngblood) 15. Re: Re-painting the aircraft (Ross Youngblood) 16. 2 pitot questions (larry flesner) 17. CONTROLS (larry flesner) 18. stick forces. (larry flesner) 19. RE: Elevator Mass Balance mounting / Bingelis (Edward Seaman) 20. Re: Declaration of ignorance. (Edward Seaman) 21. Rudder (Eric Evezard) 22. Re: Stick angles (Mac McConnell-Wood) 23. Sport Plane Classification (Raybeth321@wmconnect.com) 24. Re: Sport Plane Classification (GoFlySlow2@aol.com) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 23:10:47 -0500 From: "Steve and Lori McGee" Subject: KR> Declaration of ignorance. To: Message-ID: <001701c421d6$76e566c0$0202a8c0@lori8v5h2xi9m3> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I must admit that I have had to look at why I do things the way I do and what is causing my designs and ideas to be the way they are. For those of you that have not heard or followed my story I will exasperate you a little with my dream. I have wanted to fly for decades. Small children and finances have put it off far too long. Yes I have flown with others in small planes, but have not yet got my pilots license. My plan is to start when I am about 3/4 finished with the KR impostor. I figure if I get it now, the money spent to keep my skills "up" will be money I could have spent on the project. I know it would be extra experience and I will probably end up doing that anyway as I am getting the itch to start with the nice weather coming on. Any way what I am getting at is this. I have had some rather different ideas (compared to what I have seen from the tons of web sites studied) on how to build this thing in designing the controls and a few other items. I don't know if it is just the lack of having been in the "group" of aviation, and having my own ideas rather than mimicking what has already been done or what. But I look at the control stick and designed it opposite of what for instance Langford did. I have an idea for the rudder control that at first I said to myself, that's crazy, but the more I think about it the more I like it. For instance one problem with it I have noticed is that some people have actually broken horns or caused other problems with the system from basically pushing on both rudder pedals too hard. I have come up with a design where, this just can't be done, push on both pedals all you like, you will not transfer any extra force to the cable system. If you saw it outside of a plane laying on a bench you would say what is that? I suppose time will tell and maybe I will be shunned at a future "Gathering " being considered dangerous. But like Frank said, I did it myyyyy waaaayyyy. Too many beers - night all. Spell checked, grammar not checked, good nite viet nam. Steve McGee Endeavor Wi. USA Building a KR2S widened. lmcgee@maqs.net ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 23:11:43 -0500 From: "Steve and Lori McGee" Subject: Re: KR> mini project update To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <001d01c421d6$98aa92d0$0202a8c0@lori8v5h2xi9m3> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Lookin good Mark. Any figures on what the realistic cruise and top end will be? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Langford" To: "KRnet" Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 10:10 PM Subject: KR> mini project update > Oscar's been pestering me for an update, so here ya go, OZ. See > http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/index.html#update for a mini update. It's > kinda like finishing a house. It doesn't look like much is happening, > but it's getting closer! > > Now, nobody can ask me how it's coming at SNF... > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama > N56ML "at" hiwaay.net > see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 14:53:49 +1000 From: "Murray Gill" Subject: RE: KR> Declaration of ignorance. To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <000201c421dc$79e10bd0$2202a8c0@ABT2400> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Yes please Steve, you've shared your thoughts - would be happy now to hear your ideas :-) Murray Gill > -----Original Message----- > From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On > Behalf Of Steve and Lori McGee > Sent: Wednesday, 14 April 2004 14:11 > To: krnet@mylist.net > Subject: KR> Declaration of ignorance. > > > I must admit that I have had to look at why I do things the way I do > and what is causing my designs and ideas to be the way they are. For > those of you that have not heard or followed my story I will > exasperate you a little with my dream. > > I have wanted to fly for decades. Small children and finances have > put it off far too long. Yes I have flown with others in small > planes, but have not yet got my pilots license. My plan is to start > when I am about 3/4 finished with the KR impostor. I figure if I get > it now, the money spent to keep my skills "up" will be money I could > have spent on the project. I know it would be extra experience and I > will probably end up doing that anyway as I am getting the itch to > start with the nice weather coming on. > > Any way what I am getting at is this. I have had some rather > different ideas (compared to what I have seen from the tons of web > sites studied) on how to build this thing in designing the > controls and a few other items. I don't know if it is just the > lack of having been in the "group" of aviation, and having my own > ideas rather than mimicking what has already been done or what. But I > look at the control stick and designed it opposite of what for > instance Langford did. I have an idea for the rudder control that at > first I said to myself, that's crazy, but the more I > think about it the more I like it. For instance one problem > with it I have noticed is that some people have actually broken horns > or caused other problems with the system from basically pushing on > both rudder pedals too hard. I have come up with a design where, this > just can't be done, push on both pedals all you like, you will not > transfer any extra force to the cable system. If you saw it outside > of a plane laying on a bench you would say what is that? > > I suppose time will tell and maybe I will be shunned at a future > "Gathering " being considered dangerous. But like Frank said, > I did it myyyyy waaaayyyy. > > Too many beers - night all. > > Spell checked, grammar not checked, good nite viet nam. > > Steve McGee > Endeavor Wi. USA > Building a KR2S widened. > lmcgee@maqs.net > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 22:14:38 -0700 From: "joe" Subject: Re: KR> mini project update To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <001b01c421df$6270cdc0$0a0110ac@o7p4e3> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" great site thanks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Langford" To: "KRnet" Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 8:10 PM Subject: KR> mini project update > Oscar's been pestering me for an update, so here ya go, OZ. See > http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/index.html#update for a mini update. It's > kinda like finishing a house. It doesn't look like much is happening, > but it's getting closer! > > Now, nobody can ask me how it's coming at SNF... > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama > N56ML "at" hiwaay.net > see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 07:37:36 +0200 From: "Stephen Jacobs" Subject: RE: KR> Declaration of ignorance. To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <000a01c421e2$9b2d4fa0$2264a8c0@homedesktop> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Steve McG I would really like to know more about your innovations. Steve J Askies"AT"microlink.zm ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 05:00:37 -0400 From: "Colin & Bev Rainey" Subject: KR> Static location To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <008401c421fe$f437e490$99ef0843@RaineyDay> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Harold & netters, I have literally flown over 100 different airplanes spanning about 15 different models throughout my flight training and then training others, and can recall only 3 different aircraft that came from the factory, or had been STC'd to have more than one static port. And well over half of those aircraft were certified for IFR flying. The IFR aircraft did have alternate static but that is another story. And none of these airplanes exhibited any kind of problem with only having one static port, except in a slip, and then the pitot tube is also going to be effected, so knowing this you make adjustments. Even with 2 static ports, your airspeed will be off due to only one pitot tube, so since this is a small amount of your flying time, I personally would not go to the trouble to install a second static port unless it was going to be alternate static inside the plane, and then only because I was planning on doing alot of winter time flying. Of course without a heated pitot tube you might be spitting in the wind for what the alternate static would accomplish. Locating in the area where it "sees" static air regardless of angle of attack will probably be more valuable then having 2. Is my coffee ready yet? Colin & Bev Rainey KR2(td) N96TA Sanford, FL crainey1@cfl.rr.com or crbrn96ta@hotmail.com http://kr-builder.org/Colin/index.html ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:40:19 +1000 From: "Phil Matheson" Subject: Re: KR> kr2S flying To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <011a01c42205$eb3c6080$8e96dccb@Office> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Joe I have flown the same aircraft and commented how good the seats were. To my amazement, it had sing seats. Phil Matheson matheson@dodo.com.au VH-PKR ( reserved) 61 3 58833588 See our VW Engines and Home built web page at http://www.vw-engines.com/ www.homebuilt-aviation.com/ ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 20:10:45 +1000 From: "Phil Matheson" Subject: Re: KR> kr2S flying To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <01eb01c42208$e047a150$8e96dccb@Office> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sorry Try Sling seats. I was in the KR2SS for 45 min, and it was very comfortable Phil Matheson matheson@dodo.com.au VH-PKR ( reserved) 61 3 58833588 See our VW Engines and Home built web page at http://www.vw-engines.com/ www.homebuilt-aviation.com/ ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 05:55:42 -0500 From: "Mark Jones" Subject: Re: KR> mini project update To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <002901c4220f$0841cb80$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Langford" > > Now, nobody can ask me how it's coming at SNF... > >> Langford...nice paint job....sooooooo how's things at SnF ??? Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 12:16:45 +0100 From: "Serge F. Vidal" Subject: KR> Re-painting the aircraft To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <000201c42211$fa9147b0$2c0101c0@ate.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" After having removed the previous registration marks, which were painted on, I decided I might as well repaint my KR2 completely. Too many patches. You see, first, I added NACA airscoops for the cockpit. Then, I cut some holes in the tailplane to give access to the rudder hinges. Then, I enlarged the engine cowling. And now, the registration marks and the inspection holes... OK, no choice: let's repaint. Now, knowing that the aircraft is already painted white with automotive type paint, here are a few questions for the paint experts. 1) Surface preparation - To which grit should I sand the surfaces? Is 600 grit, dry sanding OK? - There are a few areas of the skin that are slightly cracked. For example, I have thin cracks around the elevator hinges. Should I resurface these? If yes, is Polyester body filler OK? 2) Choosing the paint I am given a choice between polyurethane/polyester and polyurethane / acrylic. Which one is best? Serge Vidal KR2 ZS-WEC - Taildragger, VW powered (2.4 liter, dual electronic ignition) - Total aircraft time: 390h - Aircraft hangared at: Orleans, France E-mail: serge.vidal@ate-international.com ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 06:21:55 -0500 From: "Steve and Lori McGee" Subject: Re: KR> Declaration of ignorance. To: , "KRnet" Message-ID: <002601c42212$b226f5f0$0202a8c0@lori8v5h2xi9m3> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" The stick is nearly done, will post pictures somehow. The rudder control will be a bit. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Murray Gill" To: "KRnet" Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 11:53 PM Subject: RE: KR> Declaration of ignorance. > Yes please Steve, you've shared your thoughts - would be happy now to > hear your ideas :-) Murray Gill > ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 06:45:23 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> mini project update To: Message-ID: <027801c42215$f8a188d0$5e0ca58c@tbe.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > Langford...nice paint job....sooooooo how's things at SnF ??? I don't know. I'm sitting in my office at the moment. I'll leave Friday morning with Doug Steen, in order to make the CorvAircraft get-together Friday afternoon. One more thing I should mention about the Scirocco. Sometimes I just have to take a break from one thing and get something entirely different accomplished. The Scirocco was one of those things that I'd let get too far gone for my own comfort level. It had developed a leak, so I couldn't drive it in the rain, which limited its usefulness as the family spare car. I try to keep cars in "like new" mechanical condition, because as soon as you start letting things go, the more likely you are to wake up some day deciding that it needs to go to the junk yard. While in the repaint process, and wanting to do it right, I completely removed the sunroof and rebuilt it (which is not a trivial excercise), but eventually discovered the leak had been at the taillight seal. I also filled in a pair of useless channels in the roof that had been filled with a plastic cover (covering seam welds, I'm sure). And I removed some ugly side molding. And best of all, it's not pink any more! My point is that I took an 18 year old $1500 car and added $220 in paint, to give the car a new lease on life. The thing still corners better than my GTI (the CG is several inches lower, and it weighs less), and is a hoot to drive, so I drive it almost as much as the GTI now. And with that little mission accomplished, my "actually-did-something-constructive" battery has been recharged again. Looking at the plane, it's hard to see what I actually did on it after a day's work. Looking at the Scirocco, I feel like I got something done... Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL N56ML at hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 05:40:34 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR> 2 pitot questions To: KRnet Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-15 I think that venting static inside the aircraft will create error depending on flight conditions. My recollection is that the pressure will read lower, but I could be wrong on that... it's been some time since I was looking at that. Some aircraft have alternate static ports for IFR flight, that I believe are vented to the cabin in case the primary static port ices over. I'm not sure how severe the indication error would be due to this error... somthing that would be reasonably easy to check would be to put a valve on your static system to select internal/external and see what the indications read. Most performance stuff I read about uses a probe that trails behind the aircraft to get accurate static readings for engineering work. I don't know how often these probes are used, nor what the error is, and the usage of these probes might be restricted to sailplane design where drag & L/D figures are important enough to measure accurately. -- Ross On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 22:22:50 -0500, Mark Jones wrote: > Why could we not just terminate the static lines within the fuselage. > This > would have the static port completely out of the slipstream and in no > high > or low pressure area. These planes are not airtight enough to create > either > a high or low pressure inside the fuselage. ?????????? Just > thoughts...all > comments welcome. > > Mark Jones (N886MJ) > Wales, WI USA > E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com > Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at > http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "larry flesner" > To: "KRnet" > Sent: Monday, April 12, 2004 10:15 PM > Subject: KR> 2 pitot questions > > >> >> >My second observation was that the static port is located on the >> fuselage >> >side behind the pilot. Has anyone used this location for the static >> port? > My >> >thoughts are that this would be a low pressure area??? >> >Dene Collett >> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >> >> In this case, there should be one on each side to equalize the pressure. >> Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC >> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >> >> If you have a static port on one side of the fuselage and it is >> located in a low pressure area I doubt if locating a second >> port on the opposit side in a low pressure is going to give >> you a good static source. The objective is to find a location >> that is neither high or low pressure, hence the term "static" >> pressure. >> >> Larry Flesner >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________ >> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net >> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html >> > > > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html -- Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 06:05:50 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR> Re-painting the aircraft To: serge.vidal@ate-international.com, KRnet , 'KRnet' Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-15 > 1) Surface preparation > - To which grit should I sand the surfaces? Is 600 grit, dry sanding OK? > - There are a few areas of the skin that are slightly cracked. For > example, > I have thin cracks around the elevator hinges. Should I resurface these? > If > yes, is Polyester body filler OK? Body filler is HEAVIER than dry micro. But it works. > 2) Choosing the paint > I am given a choice between polyurethane/polyester and polyurethane / > acrylic. Which one is best? There was somthing about the bonding compatability between polyester resins and epoxy resins...for glass work. My recollections were that Epoxy sticks to anything, but polyester may not stick to epoxy... with respect to glass. Having said that, I used Featherfill on my tailplane, and it is a polyester system, with no problems. (It is a primer/filler). For cars... I use ACME acrylic polyurethane paint... but for My KR I used the water reducable paints... I liked the fact that the fumes wouldn't kill me as fast as the car paints. Painting in the garage, and the dog and cat didn't have resperators. However, some people don't like the results you get with water reducable paint. I think it is easier to get a good finish with the acrylics than the system three stuff. You can see my 50' paint job of N541RY using System III paint at http://N541RY.US If you manage to navigate into the flash stuff I even have a slide show on the painting process. I used a 2-1/2gal compressor, barely adequate for the job, and some inexpensive spray guns. (Harbor freight has some nice ones). Preperation is everything. Another nice thing about water reduceable paint. With the acrylic enamels you need to buy reducer based on your paint shop temperature. When I painted cars in AZ, this was a hassle, as the heat would cause the reducer to evaporate too quickly. With the water reducable stuff, you use water/alcohol mix (primer) and water (topcoat), and it evaporates at the speed of water. There is a epoxy catylist (few drops per mix), that cures the paint as well to be fuel proof. I did my KR painting in Oregon, and the evaporation was OK... but perhaps slower than the more volotile reducers that other paints use. > > Serge Vidal > KR2 ZS-WEC > - Taildragger, VW powered (2.4 liter, dual electronic ignition) > - Total aircraft time: 390h > - Aircraft hangared at: Orleans, France > E-mail: serge.vidal@ate-international.com > > > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html -- Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 06:05:50 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR> Re-painting the aircraft To: serge.vidal@ate-international.com, KRnet , 'KRnet' Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-15 > 1) Surface preparation > - To which grit should I sand the surfaces? Is 600 grit, dry sanding OK? > - There are a few areas of the skin that are slightly cracked. For > example, > I have thin cracks around the elevator hinges. Should I resurface these? > If > yes, is Polyester body filler OK? Body filler is HEAVIER than dry micro. But it works. > 2) Choosing the paint > I am given a choice between polyurethane/polyester and polyurethane / > acrylic. Which one is best? There was somthing about the bonding compatability between polyester resins and epoxy resins...for glass work. My recollections were that Epoxy sticks to anything, but polyester may not stick to epoxy... with respect to glass. Having said that, I used Featherfill on my tailplane, and it is a polyester system, with no problems. (It is a primer/filler). For cars... I use ACME acrylic polyurethane paint... but for My KR I used the water reducable paints... I liked the fact that the fumes wouldn't kill me as fast as the car paints. Painting in the garage, and the dog and cat didn't have resperators. However, some people don't like the results you get with water reducable paint. I think it is easier to get a good finish with the acrylics than the system three stuff. You can see my 50' paint job of N541RY using System III paint at http://N541RY.US If you manage to navigate into the flash stuff I even have a slide show on the painting process. I used a 2-1/2gal compressor, barely adequate for the job, and some inexpensive spray guns. (Harbor freight has some nice ones). Preperation is everything. Another nice thing about water reduceable paint. With the acrylic enamels you need to buy reducer based on your paint shop temperature. When I painted cars in AZ, this was a hassle, as the heat would cause the reducer to evaporate too quickly. With the water reducable stuff, you use water/alcohol mix (primer) and water (topcoat), and it evaporates at the speed of water. There is a epoxy catylist (few drops per mix), that cures the paint as well to be fuel proof. I did my KR painting in Oregon, and the evaporation was OK... but perhaps slower than the more volotile reducers that other paints use. > > Serge Vidal > KR2 ZS-WEC > - Taildragger, VW powered (2.4 liter, dual electronic ignition) > - Total aircraft time: 390h > - Aircraft hangared at: Orleans, France > E-mail: serge.vidal@ate-international.com > > > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html -- Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 08:17:38 -0500 From: larry flesner Subject: KR> 2 pitot questions To: KRnet Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040414081738.008c3ca0@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Was it in Tony Benglis' book about placing it > in the same location as the pitot tube? > Jim Hayward ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Page 74 of the KR2 plans give you all the info you need and a drawing of the pitot/static tube. This setup seems to work just fine for me. The only thing I'd add is keep the tubes at least 2 1/2 to 3 inches below the wing surface and out of the propeller slipstream or other "disturbed" air. Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Message: 17 Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 08:18:18 -0500 From: larry flesner Subject: KR> CONTROLS To: KRnet Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040414081818.008c74b0@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > What is the correct deflection of the KR 2 s Rudder ? > What is a good deflection for the tailwheel if differential to the rudder ? >Eric Evezard, ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Rudder deflection is 30 degrees each way. ( page 58 and 59 of the plans) My tailwheel arms are approx the same length as the rudder horns and I don't notice any "transition" from tailwheel to rudder control and back on T.O. or landing. I'm using a 4" steerable/full swivel tailwheel unit and my KR drives just like a "real airplane" around the ramp and hangar area. :-) Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Message: 18 Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 09:27:14 -0500 From: larry flesner Subject: KR> stick forces. To: KRnet Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040414092714.008c49b0@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >For you lucky ones that are flying already. So how much resistance in our chosen little birds stick is there? What kind of pressure from the elevator? I have read there is next to nothing in the ailerons. How about the tail? What kind of back pressure do you feel thru the pedals? >>Steve McGee ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ I can't give you an exact measurement in pounds of force but I can give you my general impression. On a scale where +10 is the average Cessna/Piper and 0 is no force at all: Mooney +20 (it drives like a truck) Cessna / Piper +10 Cub's, Champ, etc. +6 /+8 T-Craft +4 /+5 Acro Sport +2 /+3 KR +1 In flight at cruise I don't really feel any rudder pressure and often find that the weight of my feet on the peddles can throw the ball off center if I don't watch what I'm doing. I will notice the ball off center, take both feet of the rudder peddles, and the ball returns to center. In cruise flight the top of the stick will not go outside a 1 inch circle. In spite of that the KR is a fun airplane to fly. Just don't count on doing a lot of cockpit activities that require more than one hand. Don't even think about using both hands to refold a sectional unless it is in PERFECTLY calm air. Flight planning and organization will serve you well when going cross country in a KR. If possible set up you cockpit / panel so you can operate most switches and controls with one hand and not be changing hands on the stick for each activity. I fly with my right hand on the stick (dual sticks) and have my throttle on the left sidewall. All my switches and controls, except the Xponder and circuit breakers, are located so I can operate them with me left hand. I would guess that having a single center stick would make this even more critical. Given all that I just said, each time I shut down after a flight I'm looking forward to going back up the next time. I hope everyone has a much fun flying their KR as I'm having with mine. Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Message: 19 Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 16:51:39 +0100 (BST) From: Edward Seaman Subject: RE: KR> Elevator Mass Balance mounting / Bingelis To: KRnet Message-ID: <20040414155139.71720.qmail@web25101.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 +++ I agree the vne would seem balancing the elevator is overkill +++ when it's on the side of safety, I tend to shoot for overkill Wise man. Surely we already know enough to appreciate that dynamically and statically balanced CTL surfaces are the way fwd - particularly when we are aspiring to 150 mph plus. Put another way - we know enough to know that there is a great deal more to know. In 19 seventy something I stood and watched in utter amazement as a ragwing rudder started to flutter just before take off. It was bizzare, the whole vert stab was eventually in a slow motion oscillation - this all occered in seconds. I doubt that the old girl had reached 40 mph. Wisely, the driver gave it a miss and taxied back. Ed ____________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html ------------------------------ Message: 20 Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 16:54:02 +0100 (BST) From: Edward Seaman Subject: Re: KR> Declaration of ignorance. To: KRnet Message-ID: <20040414155402.34281.qmail@web25109.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 I would really like to know /see more. We are in a world of dreamers, experimenters, talkers and thinkers. (and Joe) ____________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html ------------------------------ Message: 21 Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:27:02 +0200 From: "Eric Evezard" Subject: KR> Rudder To: "KR NEWS" Message-ID: <002001c42247$0e0a6080$44ce07c4@user> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Thanks Larry,I will have to alter mine.I had the correct rudder travel but when I connected to the tailwheel cranks,(same size as the rudder) it was greatly reduced.I mounted a tailwheel from a Quickie 2 kit,but the stops on the tailwheel reduced,rudder movement.I will have to grind them down.I was hoping I would get away with it hence my question.Thanks Larry. Regards , Eric Evezard ------------------------------ Message: 22 Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:52:06 +0100 From: "Mac McConnell-Wood" Subject: Re: KR> Stick angles To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <000901c42251$cd0a0da0$f807e150@tinypc> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Steve,-With my single seat/center stick configuration I'm having prblems getting the design 20 up/ 10 down aileron -my chubby little thighs get in the way-(no suggestions please) the angle for aileron stick full range is 60deg. Regards, Mac UK ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve and Lori McGee" To: Sent: Monday, April 12, 2004 5:01 AM Subject: KR> Stick angles s, but does anyone know the angle or degrees the stock design from neutral to full aileron the STICK has to move? Same for the elevator. > ee > Endeavor Wi. USA > Building a KR2S widened. > lmcgee@maqs.net > > > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 23 Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 16:27:04 EDT From: Raybeth321@wmconnect.com Subject: KR> Sport Plane Classification To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <89.857d02b.2daef898@wmconnect.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Hello KRNetters, What is the latest on the Sport Plane License? I heard that it had been pulled back from the ONB for more study.(Maybe something to do with Homeland Security) Does anyone have anything "official" Ray Goree Arlington, Texas ------------------------------ Message: 24 Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 16:57:04 EDT From: GoFlySlow2@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> Sport Plane Classification To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" No "official" statement as to why OMB was going to reject it. FAA "pulled it" from OMB at the last second when they found out OMB was going to reject it. If FAA had not pulled it, then the whole process would have to pretty much start from scratch again. The most likely reason was due to FAA's inaccurate statements of costs/benifits. The proposal was stated to cost 40 million dollars over the next 10 years with a benefit of probable lives saved of 83. The cost to "ultralight" manufacturers to become compliant with ASTM standards would put the average preconstructed aircraft at over 60 thousand dollars.......thereby actually reducing the numbers of independent (former Ultralight) flight instructors. Just as with Recreational Pilot, the current G.A. Flight schools have stated no interest in this type of instruction and for obvious economic and insurance reasons would not purchase an LSA sport Aircraft or, even purchase an older Standard airworthy aircraft like Taylorcraft or Piper cub to provide this instruction. As for "transitioning" pilots (those currently certificated, but without current medical), the FAA could easily have written into Recreational Pilot an increased limitation for airspaces /speed/ passengers into that pilot classification that would allow these pilots to continue to fly with just a State drivers license and no medical. Other than that, current Privet pilots may ALREADY transition to motorgliders with only 3 hours of transitional training. These motorgliders (called self launch by FAA) have all of the abilities and more of any currently proposed Sport Aircraft. Many, like the Europa, Xenos, Pipistrel and Grob109 are every bit airplane (2 seat side by side tractor 4 stroke engines, tricycle gear With the transitional training, here is the best part. There are NO limitations to Airspace Speed, Altitude Night flight And no endorsements required for tailwheel and complex. Not even a Sea plane rating is required if on floats. (yep, there ARE seaplane gliders) no ELT requirements as is for airplanes no Mode C transponder required in the veil or above 10,000 ft. Heck, you can even fly into some class A areas without an IFR rating or instrumentation. And, the 3 hours transition training serves as a BFR (that they will need any way) And, there is no endorsement requirement for EACH Make and Model aircraft as is for Sport Pilot Chuck ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 346, Issue 27 ************************************** ================================== ABC Amber Outlook Converter v4.20 Trial version ==================================