From: krnet-bounces+johnbou=speakeasy.net@mylist.net To: John Bouyea Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 346, Issue 29 Date: 4/15/2004 9:00:26 PM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: 2 pitot questions (JEHayward@aol.com) 2. Re tail wheel endurance (larry flesner) 3. Re: 2 pitot questions (Ray Fuenzalida) 4. Re: 2 pitot questions (Ross Youngblood) 5. Re: Sport Pilot (GoFlySlow2@aol.com) 6. RE: Re-painting the aircraft (Serge F. Vidal) 7. Re: 2 pitot questions (Orma Robbins) 8. Re: 2 pitot questions (Mark Jones) 9. Stick angles/incidence angle (larry flesner) 10. Re: incidence angle and KR2 Simulation (Ameet Savant) 11. RE: Stick angles/incidence angle (Stephen Jacobs) 12. RE: Stick angles/incidence angle (larry flesner) 13. AS504x airfoil (Ronald Metcalf) 14. Re: 2 pitot questions (Ronald Metcalf) 15. RE: AS504x airfoil (Stephen Jacobs) 16. In search of the lost " relatives " (Eduardo Jos? Jankosz) 17. Re: AS504x airfoil (lloyd schultz) 18. Re: AS504x airfoil (lloyd schultz) 19. Web page - pages (Steve and Lori McGee) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 00:05:17 EDT From: JEHayward@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> 2 pitot questions To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" In a message dated 4/14/04 9:39:27 PM Mountain Daylight Time, ray_pilot@yahoo.com writes: << To continue with this theme, my pitot tube is located at the top of the vertical stablizer. >> Propwash doesn't affect it? Jim Hayward Rapid City, SD ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 23:08:37 -0500 From: larry flesner Subject: KR> Re tail wheel endurance To: KRnet Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040414230837.008cd930@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Thanks Larry >I guess I should have figured the speed rating. For the weight limits >you think six times the weight of the tail, for hard landings? ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Odds are the tail is NEVER going to hit that hard. I'd think two times the tail weight with "all souls on board" and fuel, if you have wing tanks, (behind CG) would be more than enough. As a matter of fact, I can't think of a situation where tail weight X 1 wouldn't be enough. Rough field operations, maybe? Maybe if you "drop it in" sometime but Geeze, I'd hate to be riding with you if you drop it in hard enough to break the tailwheel assy !!! :-) Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 21:34:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Ray Fuenzalida Subject: Re: KR> 2 pitot questions To: KRnet Message-ID: <20040415043414.72901.qmail@web42001.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Don't know. It's not finished yet. I will keep that in mind though. --- JEHayward@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 4/14/04 9:39:27 PM Mountain > Daylight Time, > ray_pilot@yahoo.com writes: > > << To continue with this theme, my pitot tube is > located at the top of the > vertical stablizer. >> > > Propwash doesn't affect it? > > Jim Hayward > Rapid City, SD > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to > KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 22:10:28 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR> 2 pitot questions To: KRnet Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-15 On Wed, 14 Apr 2004 20:38:40 -0700 (PDT), Ray Fuenzalida wrote: > To continue with this theme, my pitot tube is loctaed > at the top of the vertical stablizer. I'll try to > start getting some photos set up. > Ray That's actually a pretty good spot! Lots of sailplanes use that spot for Pitot tube mounting. It has the advantage of being immune to hangar rash. (My pitot tube has hit several low laying items in my hangar... a small bench table saw for one). ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 02:56:07 EDT From: GoFlySlow2@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> Sport Pilot To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <1c4.17ad7830.2daf8c07@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/222-full.html#187090 Meetings yesterday (at Lakeland SNF) with industry leaders at Sun 'n Fun in Lakeland, Florida, LSA staffers confirmed that the OMB rejected the proposed rule but that FAA Administrator Marion Blakey pulled the rule for further explanation and possible changes. The action perhaps reflects momentum earned through time effort and money already spent. Among her other options -- throwing her hands up in frustrated disgust and letting it die. FAA LSA team leaders Sue Gardner and Scott Sedgwick were upbeat despite repeated delays of a rule that is deemed critical to the survival of some companies committed to production of ready-to- fly aircraft and kits. Expected by industry-watchers in May, the revelation of a final rule is now (again) expected later. Despite the years of effort, and waves of fanfare, death of the proposed rule is still a possible outcome. erhaps reflecting the amount of work involved in the project so far from Jane Garvey through Marion Blakey And while there will be no roll-out of the Sport Pilot rule at the air show, and the economy (plus nasty world-changing events we've grown tired of mentioning) has flushed the fields of those brand new design hopefuls so prevalent in years past, still, the scene this year is uniquely refreshing. If it's true that the strong survive, recent history mandates that pretty much all that made it to this year's show is the cream that's risen to the top ... or maybe just not sink to the bottom. Chuck ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 09:53:37 +0100 From: "Serge F. Vidal" Subject: RE: KR> Re-painting the aircraft To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <000101c422c7$2521e0b0$2c0101c0@ate.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Thanks, Mark. You do pretty well indeed for a non-expert. Serge -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Mark Langford Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2004 01:04 To: KRnet Subject: Re: KR> Re-painting the aircraft "Serge F. Vidal" wrote > 1) Surface preparation > - To which grit should I sand the surfaces? Is 600 grit, dry sanding OK? I'm no expert, but I guess one amateur opinion is better than absolutely nothing. If you're going to apply the paint directly to the old paint, 400 is probably best. Dry or wet is OK, but wet sanding will make the paper last longer, although it's more messy. If the paint is really ancient and you have no idea what it is, you should probably seal it first with sealer (or test it first) to make sure the paint is compatible with what you're going to put on it (although it may take years to screw up). > - There are a few areas of the skin that are slightly cracked. For example, > I have thin cracks around the elevator hinges. Should I resurface these? If > yes, is Polyester body filler OK? I think if you paint over them or use body filler over them they'll just come back. Patching with fiberglass is the right way to do it, but that may be more trouble than you're up for. Your choice there. > 2) Choosing the paint > I am given a choice between polyurethane/polyester and polyurethane / > acrylic. Which one is best? I didn't even realize that there were two kinds of polyurethane until now, but I can tell you that I painted mine with the cheap stuff, and it's polyester based. The expensive DuPont that I bought to match my wife's Audi is acrylic. I figure since my plane is going to spend the vast majority of it's time in a hangar, and since the UV protection is really in the clearcoat anyway, that'll work just fine for me. Ask at your paint store, but for me the answer was that the good stuff was $130 a quart, and the cheap stuff (which looks just great) was $30 a quart. It took a gallon of paint (which is 1.5 gallons of sprayable stuff after adding the activator/reducer) to paint my Scirocco with three coats (which is what it took to cover the old paint and primer patches here and there). Obviously, the best place to get paint advice is where you buy the stuff, but here's what I learned from them. The cheap stuff doesn't cover quite as well, so if you need 2 coats of DuPont, you might need three coats of Nason. And the matching to OEM colors is better with DuPont than with Nason, but one gallon of Nason will match another one perfectly. They told me that most pros use the expensive stuff for repairs (where matching is critical) and Nason for a total repaint. In my automotive paint class the rules were sand with 180 before priming, and then sand the primer with 400 before painting, and then touch up the color with 600 between coats, and 1200 if you have a problem before clearcoat. Like I said though, I ain't no expert... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama N56ML "at" hiwaay.net see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford _______________________________________ to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 06:30:48 -0400 From: "Orma Robbins" Subject: Re: KR> 2 pitot questions To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <028d01c422d4$b8d22f10$c724d445@ROBBINS1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" << To continue with this theme, my pitot tube is located at the top of the vertical stablizer. >> Ray besides propwash, another factor to consider is the airflow during the time close to stall when the nose is high and the tail is low such as landing. This could affect the airspeed that you read on approach. My KR, before flaps, had a high nose attitude on approach. Your pitot could end up in both propwash and blocked from normal undisturbed air, both at the same time. Some of the sail planes that you mention may have a longer fuselage then the KR, assuring that the top of the verticle is in clean air. My pitot is under the right wing outside of propwash. The static is attached to the pitot, though about 1/2" aft of the pitot opening. My airspeed is always accurate. Orma L. Robbins Southfield MI 19 Years flying KR-2 N110LR http://www.aviation-mechanics.com ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 06:13:12 -0500 From: "Mark Jones" Subject: Re: KR> 2 pitot questions To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <001301c422da$a464c960$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Unless you have a very high vertical stabilizer it will not work. My propwash is full force at the top of the vertical. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ross Youngblood" To: "KRnet" Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2004 12:10 AM Subject: Re: KR> 2 pitot questions > On Wed, 14 Apr 2004 20:38:40 -0700 (PDT), Ray Fuenzalida > wrote: > > > To continue with this theme, my pitot tube is loctaed > > at the top of the vertical stablizer. I'll try to > > start getting some photos set up. > > Ray > > That's actually a pretty good spot! Lots of sailplanes use that spot > for Pitot tube mounting. It has the advantage of being immune to > hangar rash. (My pitot tube has hit several low laying items in my > hangar... > a small bench table saw for one). > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 08:01:44 -0500 From: larry flesner Subject: KR> Stick angles/incidence angle To: KRnet Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040415080144.008cbe90@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Netters, I got by the airport for a short flight in the KR yesterday before going in to work and laying tile for 10 hours. This part-time job is killing me. Anyway, I measured my stick angles with the digital level. Be advised, my aileron bellcranks are redrilled to give me more aileron travel and these angles are approximate. I took the measurements with a considerable amount of haste. Stick travel for aileron is 25 degrees each side of neutral. Elevator is 34 degrees back from neutral and 28 degrees forward from neutral. These may be several degrees in error so don't go changing or altering any building plans if yours aren't the same. The next measurement is my Christmas present for Mark Langford. He's been waiting years for this number. Again, this number was taken with considerable haste and I'm sure Mark and I will confirm it with greater accuracy at some point. At 155 indicated my KR, standard wing built to plans, appears to fly with the nose down at a -2 degrees. I don't know how close this number is so don't pull your money off the table just yet. It would seem to confirm the theory that the wing has too much incidence and that the 1.5 to 2 degrees that some are using would be closer to what is needed. At 95 mph IAS on climbout it was reading in the +8 degree range if that means anything to anybody. Two more days of laying tile and then it's KR time again! YEE HAA.......... Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 06:16:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Ameet Savant Subject: Re: KR> incidence angle and KR2 Simulation To: KRnet Message-ID: <20040415131609.69462.qmail@web60802.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hello, Sometime ago, Dan Heath and I did a X-plane simulation of the KR2 as per plans built with a VW engine. That plane does fly in a nose down attitude as Larry describes. Keeping everything else same, I changed the wing incidence and horizontal stab incidence as per Mark's figures, and the KR2 seemed to fly in a much more normal attitude. Also, it seemed a little less sensitive. But I didn't stretch it and I didn't use the corvair.. so it is not an accurate model of Mark's plane. The X-plane simulation is a work in progress, but Dan and I haven't worked on it for sometime now. If anyone is interested in receiving the simulation (X-plane 7.0+) email me off the net and I can email you the current version of the plane. I don't have the S supplement so I can't model the S. Regards, Ameet Savant ameetsavant at yahoo dot com --- larry flesner wrote: > It would seem to confirm the theory that the > wing has too > much incidence and that the 1.5 to 2 degrees that > some are > Larry Flesner __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 15:24:22 +0200 From: "Stephen Jacobs" Subject: RE: KR> Stick angles/incidence angle To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <000b01c422ec$faa06b60$1664a8c0@homedesktop> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 155 indicated my KR, standard wing built to plans, appears to fly with the nose down at a -2 degrees. Good info Larry - do you recall the elevator trim under those conditions? Steve J ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 08:48:12 -0500 From: larry flesner Subject: RE: KR> Stick angles/incidence angle To: KRnet Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040415084812.007dbc30@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 03:24 PM 4/15/04 +0200, you wrote: >At 155 indicated my KR, standard wing built to plans, appears to fly >with the nose down at a -2 degrees. >(Larry Flesner) >++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >Good info Larry - do you recall the elevator trim under those >conditions? >Steve J >+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++= Sorry, that never crossed my mind. I'll try to get that for you at some point. The stick forces are so light that I can trim for cruise and land with it at that setting. I can tell you that there is a noticable trim change from cruise to approach with the speed brake deployed and the stick forces change enough to be noticable. Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 15:36:25 -0500 From: "Ronald Metcalf" Subject: KR> AS504x airfoil To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hi Gang I down loaded the profilli software as suggested by steve J - brilliant - I will send the owner the $10 or whatever to get the full version. I figured steve was talking through his neck - P51 wing sectrion - oh yeah - well I the P51 section is there and I did the comparrison he reccomended - P51 against the AS 5046 - amazing similarity. Then came the discussion from the airfoil boffs about the cusp (tuck???). Take the cusp out of a 4046 and you have a P51 root section - I will do it like that. Ron > > > I am interested in the strange "tuck" underneath the trailing > > > edge - the last few mm seem to droop down leaving a > > > concave area right at the back (underneath). > >That trailing edge cusp does several different things. When comparing to a >related airfoil without the cusp, the coefficient of lift will be higher at >a given angle of attack, the pitch moment will be more negative, and the >boundary layer separation will tend to stay closer to the trailing >edge. The maximum coefficient of lift of the two different airfoils will >be approximately the same, but the cusped airfoil will reach it at a lower >angle of attack. All of these parameters are compromises that affect the >overall design of the airplane. > >It can be an acceptable airfoil for a wing root but will be a poor choice >for a control surface. Aileron control forces will be high. It is a less >than optimum choice for an airfoil that is intended to be laminar over a >wide range angle of attack. > > >Don Reid - donreid "at" erols.com >Bumpass, Va > >Visit my web sites at: > >AeroFoil, a 2-D Airfoil Design And Analysis Computer Program: >http://www.eaa231.org/AeroFoil/index.htm > >KR2XL construction: http://users.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm >Aviation Surplus: http://users.erols.com/donreid/Airparts.htm >EAA Chapter 231: http://eaa231.org >Ultralights: http://usua250.org >VA EAA State Fly-in: http://vaeaa.org >_______________________________________ >to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net >please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html _________________________________________________________________ Tax headache? MSN Money provides relief with tax tips, tools, IRS forms and more! http://moneycentral.msn.com/tax/workshop/welcome.asp ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 15:50:28 -0500 From: "Ronald Metcalf" Subject: Re: KR> 2 pitot questions To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Then, where to put it (pitot) Where not to put it - on top of the fin. Even a glider may be a push - with no flaps and spoilers - you may just get away with it. If you have a tractor config - forget it - somewhere on the wing well outboard of the propeller arc - no other place will see remotely clean air. Some Pipers have a heated combined Pitot /static - rugged unit - get one and put it under the wing at half span.- you can choose the side Ron >From: "Dan Heath" >Reply-To: KRnet >To: "krnet@mylist.net" >Subject: Re: KR> 2 pitot questions >Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 06:06:37 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) > >? The RV kit says to put it behind the cabin. I am sure >that Dana can translate the RV position to KR for us. > > > >We were going to do as Mark J. suggests, until the long thread on this >subject convinced me to locate it outside. I had it just behind the cabin, >in the boat, on the Little Beast. > > > >See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics > > > >Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC > > > >DanRH@KR-Builder.org > > > >See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering > > > >See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org > > > > >_______________________________________ >to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net >please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee® Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 23:00:54 +0200 From: "Stephen Jacobs" Subject: RE: KR> AS504x airfoil To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <000601c4232c$c19272b0$8864a8c0@homedesktop> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> I figured steve was talking through his neck - P51 wing section >> oh yeah - well I the P51 section is there and I did the >> comparrison he recommended - P51 against the AS 5046 - amazing similarity Hey Monkey - no upper case on your KB???? Was gonna comment on your great spelling ability but what the hell - I am really glad you looked at Profilli - great eh. Note that the software will let you draw the spar positions /depth /width etc and plot them out in any size scale.- even the skin. Cheers Steve J ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:48:18 -0300 From: Eduardo Jos? Jankosz Subject: KR> In search of the lost " relatives " To: Message-ID: <001f01c4233b$bfd27560$5cf1c2c8@jankosz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hello my friends of KRNet!!! I know that here it is not the appropriate place for this, however as I only have you of contact in USA, I would like to see if you are able to help me!!!!! Day of these, searching in the site http://www.genealogytoday.com , I found living there in USA my relatives that nor I knew that had! They are of the family GINALSKI, on the part of my maternal grandfather, residing from California to Florida! It is it also exists a John Jankosz and Sandra J. Jankosz, which should be some my relative on the part of father, that they reside in Indiana! If, by chance or coincidence, some of the friends there in USA know some of these names, I would adore that established a contact (by email) between them and me! Meanwhile, I am going trying to discover here for the mechanisms of search of the Yahoo, etc. etc. to see if I get some contact! Excuse out for the subject "off topic"! Thank you very much Eduardo José Jankosz São José of Pinhais-Paraná-Brazil jankosz@bsi.com.br ------------------------------ Message: 17 Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:29:58 -0600 From: lloyd schultz Subject: Re: KR> AS504x airfoil To: KRnet Message-ID: <407F3716.BBFB3EF0@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii The many discussions about various airfoils and the Ashok ones, plus the recent discussion about the cusp, cause me to recommend highly to all list members, a book by Harry Riblett entitled GA AIRFOILS, A Catalog of Airfoils For General Aviation Use. It is available as part number 13-18725 from Aircraft Spruce & Specialty at ph 877-4-SPRUCE. It includes a comprehensive, easy-to-understand discussion of things airfoil. It is good to read first before other texts, so you have an appropriate amount of jaundice before reading them. The cusp is discussed. Mistakes made by NACA on their 6-series laminar flow airfoils are discussed. I believe KR builders would find it very interesting. -Lloyd Schultz ------------------------------ Message: 18 Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:34:41 -0600 From: lloyd schultz Subject: Re: KR> AS504x airfoil To: KRnet Message-ID: <407F3831.D2DA34AD@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii You can also type in X/Y coordinates to modify a copy of an included airfoil. Just key over what's there to put in the coordinates for some airfoil not in Profili and it will render that airfoil. -Lloyd Schultz ================================================= Stephen Jacobs wrote: > >> I figured steve was talking through his neck - P51 wing section > >> oh yeah - well I the P51 section is there and I did the > >> comparrison he recommended - P51 against the AS 5046 - amazing > similarity > > Hey Monkey - no upper case on your KB???? > > Was gonna comment on your great spelling ability but what the hell - I > am really glad you looked at Profilli - great eh. > > Note that the software will let you draw the spar positions /depth > /width etc and plot them out in any size scale.- even the skin. > > Cheers > Steve J > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 19 Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 22:51:31 -0500 From: "Steve and Lori McGee" Subject: KR> Web page - pages To: Message-ID: <001b01c42366$1aa89a30$0202a8c0@lori8v5h2xi9m3> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Well here it is. I started pages at my regular family web site for the plane build. This URL will take you right to the plane pages. I should say here that I do not plan to do a full build web page. I do not want to take the time, nor do I feel we as a group need more pages of spar building, sanding etc. I will cover topics that I decided to do differently, or found little information on when I was researching a topic. Plans and information are in the works for a web page on thermo forming that mysterious material called clear acrylic (Plexiglas). I am trying to get someone to draw cartoon characters for me (for free) and have had no luck. Anyone out there want recognition for this? http://www.geocities.com/magoosus/plane.html Steve McGee Endeavor Wi. USA Building KR2SW The Impostor lmcgee@maqs.net ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 346, Issue 29 ************************************** ================================== ABC Amber Outlook Converter v4.20 Trial version ==================================