From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net To: John Bouyea Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 346, Issue 43 Date: 7/23/2004 7:57:09 AM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. RE: West Coast Gathering (Douglas Dorfmeier) 2. RE: Tax Bills (David Hartz) 3. RE: West Coast Gathering (David Hartz) 4. Re: West Coast Gathering (David Hartz) 5. RE: Just funning! (Joachim Saupe) 6. Re: West Coast Gathering (Lee Van Dyke) 7. Re: West Coast Gathering (Bryan Valentine) 8. RE: Tax Bills (Frank van der Hulst (Staff WG)) 9. Gathering (Lee Van Dyke) 10. mounting 1835 (Lee Van Dyke) 11. RE: Advice sought on buying a KR-2 (Duncan) 12. RE: Tax Bills (Steve Glover) 13. Hapi Engine Mount (Steve Glover) 14. RE: Corvair Dimensions (Stephen Jacobs) 15. West Coast Gathering (larry flesner) 16. RE: Tax Bills (Dan Heath) 17. how many hours? (larry flesner) 18. Re: Hapi Engine Mount (larry flesner) 19. Tax appeal (Colin & Bev Rainey) 20. Tax Bills (larry flesner) 21. Re: Tax appeal (Mark Langford) 22. Re: West Coast Gathering (JSMONDAY@aol.com) 23. RE: Foam vs. Foam (Stephen Jacobs) 24. Foam vs. Foam (Larry A Capps) 25. Re: Foam vs. Foam (Mark Langford) 26. RE: Tax appeal (Steve Glover) 27. FW: West Coast Gathering (Steve Glover) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 21:51:16 -0700 From: "Douglas Dorfmeier" Subject: RE: KR> West Coast Gathering To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I live in Northern California about an hour north of Sacramento. I would be interested in a west coast gathering. Doug Dorfmeier >From: "John Esch" >Reply-To: KRnet >To: >Subject: KR> West Coast Gathering >Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 20:03:49 -0700 > >All >How many west coasters on the KR list? >Curious what the interest would be for a West Coast gathering in the >future? > >John Esch >KR-2SSW >Independence State Airport, OR (7S5) >_______________________________________ >to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net >please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html _________________________________________________________________ Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 22:17:22 -0700 (PDT) From: David Hartz Subject: RE: KR> Tax Bills To: KRnet Message-ID: <20040723051722.23525.qmail@web41303.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I HAVE DELT WITH THESE TAX GUYS IN THE PAST AND THEY SEEM TO SHOOT FOR THE MOON WHEN PLACING A VALUE ON PROPERTY.YOU HAVE TO CONFRONT THEM AND STATE ITS REAL VALUE.IF NOT COMPLETED ,50%OF WHAT YOU HAVE INVESTED IS GOOD ENOUGH AS A TAXABLE VALUE! DAVE --- Steve Glover wrote: > They didn't have any good explanation for setting > value...I guess it just > sounded good to them. Another KR on our field got > his tax bill, it was only > $43.00. I guess his is assessed at $4300.00 > > Steve Glover > > >That's nuts! Did they give any justification or > explanation > as to how they arrived at that value? > > > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at > http://www.krnet.org/info.html > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Vote for the stars of Yahoo!'s next ad campaign! http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/yahoo/votelifeengine/ ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 22:23:01 -0700 (PDT) From: David Hartz Subject: RE: KR> West Coast Gathering To: KRnet Message-ID: <20040723052301.41048.qmail@web41310.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I AM IN NOVATO CA AND I THINK WE SHOULD PUT A WEST COAST GATHERING TOGETHER! DAVE --- Douglas Dorfmeier wrote: > I live in Northern California about an hour north of Sacramento. I > would be interested in a west coast gathering. > > Doug Dorfmeier > > > >From: "John Esch" > >Reply-To: KRnet > >To: > >Subject: KR> West Coast Gathering > >Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 20:03:49 -0700 > > > >All > >How many west coasters on the KR list? > >Curious what the interest would be for a West Coast > gathering in the > >future? > > > >John Esch > >KR-2SSW > >Independence State Airport, OR (7S5) > >_______________________________________ > >to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to > KRnet-leave@mylist.net > >please see other KRnet info at > http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > _________________________________________________________________ > Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN > Search! > http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ > > > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Vote for the stars of Yahoo!'s next ad campaign! http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/yahoo/votelifeengine/ ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 22:25:16 -0700 (PDT) From: David Hartz Subject: Re: KR> West Coast Gathering To: KRnet Message-ID: <20040723052516.41244.qmail@web41310.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii YES JOHN, IN YOUR SPAIR TIME , RIGHT ? DAVE --- JSMONDAY@aol.com wrote: > I am ready for the west coast gathering..... really contemplating > right now whether I can make it to the Red Oak gatheering!!! > > John Monday > KR2S > Laguna Beach, CA > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at > http://www.krnet.org/info.html > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Vote for the stars of Yahoo!'s next ad campaign! http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/yahoo/votelifeengine/ ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 00:30:32 -0500 From: "Joachim Saupe" Subject: KR> RE: Just funning! To: "Orma" , "KRnet" Message-ID: <410-22004752353032796@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Oh boy, lighten up! You can stone me at the gathering. I am planning to attend! Love Joachim ----- Original Message ----- From: Orma To: Joachim Saupe Sent: 7/22/2004 9:56:20 PM Subject: Just funning! Perhaps my little lake water test to determine if my boat really had vapor lock was funny to you. I have not seen your name posting to the net and assume that perhaps you are new to the KR. As far as helping the frustrated builder to find a solution to his problem, perhaps you did not have anything as constructive to say as you did with the oil pressure problem. Most of us look forward to getting suggestions even one's that might seem odd. Orma L. Robbins Southfield, MI KR-2 1984 to 2004 N110LR Soon to celebrate 20 years ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 22:44:01 -0500 From: "Lee Van Dyke" Subject: Re: KR> West Coast Gathering To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <000701c47067$71584850$8801a8c0@SNAKEBITE> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" John, I'm in AZ count me in. Lee Van Dyke Mesa AZ Lee@vandyke5.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Esch" To: Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 10:03 PM Subject: KR> West Coast Gathering > All > How many west coasters on the KR list? > Curious what the interest would be for a West Coast gathering in the future? > > John Esch > KR-2SSW > Independence State Airport, OR (7S5) > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 22:33:16 -0700 From: Bryan Valentine Subject: Re: KR> West Coast Gathering To: KRnet Message-ID: <005b01c47076$8e6b6030$4fb84418@VALENTE6S4YLVB> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 West Coast Gathering!!! Bring it on!! In other words count me in B.M. Valentine Vancouver Island KR2S ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 17:51:44 +1200 From: "Frank van der Hulst (Staff WG)" Subject: RE: KR> Tax Bills To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <3FDA426A179FB442B271B033E79F76F809281D@wg-exchange.ucol.ac.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Over on the RV-list, there were similar discussions, with one person getting his RV-6 'valued' at $250,000. Some-one suggested offering the plane to the County for what the County thought it was worth. :-) IIRC, the explanation was that the tax dept looked up Trade-A-Plane, and calculated the average price of planes for sale. What's a Citation? What's an RV-8? Who cares... just average them all. Then, any plane that wasn't specifically valued got that number. IIRC, showing that your plane was insured for a particular sum was sufficient to get its taxable value altered to that sum. Frank -----Original Message----- From: Kris Feldmann [mailto:k@wb.com] Sent: Friday, 23 July 2004 12:52 p.m. To: KRnet Subject: Re: KR> Tax Bills That's nuts! Did they give any justification or explanation as to how they arrived at that value? Is it legal to sell your airplane to yourself (or say, to your own corporation)? That way I assume it would be taxed at the actual selling price. Kris Steve Glover wrote: > I received my tax bill today...it seems our local Assesor's office > thinks my KR is worth $27,500.00. Anyone want to buy a KR??? ____________________________________________________ Learn real skills for the real world - Apply online at http://www.ucol.ac.nz or call 0800 GO UCOL (0800 46 8265) or txt free 3388 for more information and make a good move to UCOL – Universal College of Learning. Enrol with a public institute and be certain of your future ____________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 23:17:23 -0500 From: "Lee Van Dyke" Subject: KR> Gathering To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <002b01c4706b$f4898000$6401a8c0@SNAKEBITE> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" 7/21/04 Attention KR Netters: This message is being sent out in regards to the KR gathering in Mt. Vernon Illinois in September. My name is Lee Van Dyke and I live in the Phoenix metro area. I am looking for anyone in my area that is going to attend the gathering. I am looking at all the possible travel options, such as: 1. Flying Commercially 2. Ride Sharing with someone from Phx or along the way 3. Flying back with someone in their plane and sharing expenses 4. Camping out in a tent 5. Sharing Hotel Room at Holiday Inn in Mt. Vernon If anyone is interested in any of these possibilities, or has other options or plans and would like company, please contact me. Lee Van Dyke 480-380-3456/home 480-694-8846/cell Lee@vandyke5.com ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 23:39:41 -0500 From: "Lee Van Dyke" Subject: KR> mounting 1835 To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <003c01c4706f$11ef9050$6401a8c0@SNAKEBITE> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" 7/21/04 Attention KR Netters: Again I am in some need of help. I would have like to had my plane ready to go to the gathering, but I think that time is moving faster than I am. I have completed the painting, the wings are done and ready to be mounted. My VW 1835 has been rebuilt and I working on the baffeling. The new exhaust has arrived, and it will be ready for mounting on the plane next week. Here come the questions. Since I have never seen the motor on the plane, I need either photos of other engines, with photos of the different brackets that have to be made to connect hold support the carb, exhaust, etc. Does somebody have a list of items have to be completed when mounting the motor. A list of the order to install the items. I have the posa carb that will have tube air filter on it. Charlie Reeves has a great system that will allow him to run with Ram air into the carb, or cut off the ram air and pull air in through the air filter for carb heat. Any photos would be a great help since I am a visual person. Lee Van Dyke Mesa AZ Lee@vandyke5.com ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 18:41:33 +1200 From: Duncan Subject: RE: KR> Advice sought on buying a KR-2 To: KRnet Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20040723183023.024bd758@styx> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Hi, I have seen the plane in question - and so can report first-hand on it. I saw the advert in our local aero news, and went out to the airport where it is kept. I was looking to build a plane, rather than buy one, and I was looking for a tri gear, with a large engine and plenty of modern 'stuff'. This plane didn't fit my needs, but I was impressed with it. It is owned by (I must add) a qualified aero engineer - so any thoughts of dodgy engine builds, questionable maintainance and so on would be unfounded. I came away thinking that if I were wanting to buy a finished plane, I could do a lot worse than this one. The current owner has just built a v-8 powered amphibian, which was parked outside, and I think this explains (in part) why the KR was flown so little. He did the engine conversion himself, and it's a beauty. And of course, being in NZ dollars, this KR is a REAL bargain... My 2c worth. Duncan ============================================== At 11:56 a.m. 23/07/2004, you wrote: >With two aboard, my standard KR-2 with a 2180cc engine flew fine at >1100lbs. The main thing to watch is your CG location. Middle of the >range or forward is the safest bet. > >Regards, > >Steve Glover >kr02g@cox.net >KR-2 N902G >AJO, Ca. > > > > >_______________________________________ >to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net >please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html Duncan of Devonport Auckland, New Zealand ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 00:07:14 -0700 From: "Steve Glover" Subject: RE: KR> Tax Bills To: "KRnet" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" It is definitely not a showplane. The woman at the county advised it will take at least 90 days for them to re-evaluate the value and, that if I do not pay the bill before the end of August they will file a lien which will affect my credit. She said if they choose to change the value on the plane then they would send me a refund of the differerence. Who knows how long THAT will take. Steve Glover ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 00:56:39 -0700 From: "Steve Glover" Subject: KR> Hapi Engine Mount To: Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hello All, Does anyone out there have a Hapi engine mount they would like to sell? I am gathering components for an 0200 upgrade. Thanks! Steve Glover KR-2 N902G AJO, Ca. ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 11:14:28 +0200 From: "Stephen Jacobs" Subject: RE: KR> Corvair Dimensions To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <000401c47095$785a2c30$4164a8c0@home> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I need some dimentions off a Corvair. I found a really nice AutoCad dwg of a Corvair engine on the net. I am using ACad, so this is perfect for me. Problem is that the dwg appears to be in an odd scale. I do not know what variants there are on these engines and it is not clear which one this is. Is the case (for e.g.) the same on all of them? When I got the Cad (2D and 3D) dwg of the dragonfly canopy from Mark Lougheed I had the same hassle, so maybe I have my ACad set up wrong? The engine measures 27 units at the widest (rocker covers) and the piston diam measures 4. Starter ring gear is 10 (greater diam). Could these be the correct sizes in inches? If not, please give me a few specific measurements so I can re-scale this dwg. Have a good weekend. (Enjoy Larry F - how many hrs ?) Steve J ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 04:51:08 -0500 From: larry flesner Subject: KR> West Coast Gathering To: KRnet Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040723045108.007f3dc0@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >I am ready for the west coast gathering..... really contemplating right >now >whether I can make it to the Red Oak gatheering!!! >John Monday +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ John, Please don't go to Red Oak expecting to see many KR's. We left there 10 months ago! The Gathering this year is at Mt.Vernon, Illinois. Go to www.krgathering.org for all the info. Larry Flesner - 2004 Gathering host ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 06:01:38 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" Subject: RE: KR> Tax Bills To: "krnet@mylist.net" Message-ID: <4100E202.00000D.03532@COMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Many years ago, I argued with our tax person and finally got them to set the value to $7500. Jerry and I are probably going to set up some sort of legal entity like a LLC and put the plane in that and put the LLC in his county where taxes are more favorable. I plan to do whatever I can to be sure that the value of this one is not over $10,000. Not because that is what it is worth, but because you are doing good to get that for any KR, except maybe for that gem that Langford is building. The problem is, to the builder, it is priceless and to someone else, it was just built by an ameteur. "There is a time for building and a time for GOING TO THE GATHERING, and the time for building has long since expired." See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering http://KRGathering.org See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC ------------------------------ Message: 17 Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 05:07:28 -0500 From: larry flesner Subject: KR> how many hours? To: KRnet Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040723050728.007f16b0@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Have a good weekend. >(Enjoy Larry F - how many hrs ?) >Steve J ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Thanks Steve. The last time I shut it down I had 80 hours on the meter so I've put on 75 hours since the middle of Feb. I recently re-torqued the prop bolts, did a compression check, oil change and some other maintenance and all seems well. Today I'm helping a builder load and transport a motorglider for final inspection so he can get it to Oshkosh and tomorrow I haul skydivers all day. I will squeeze in some KR time before Monday morning. Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Message: 18 Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 05:15:09 -0500 From: larry flesner Subject: Re: KR> Hapi Engine Mount To: KRnet Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040723051509.007f8ce0@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Does anyone out there have a Hapi engine mount they would like to sell? >I am gathering components for an 0200 upgrade. Steve Glover +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Steve, I used a HAPI mount for my 0-200 and with the 24" stretch on my fuselage ,and for starter clearance, I had to add some 1" spacers on the firewall. Do a weight and balance with the engine on before you do any plumbing. Also, the standard alternator would not clear the motor mount so I'm using a small (12 amp) B&C alternator. I made an even trade for mine but they are not cheap! As always, your results may vary......... Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Message: 19 Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 06:23:42 -0400 From: "Colin & Bev Rainey" Subject: KR> Tax appeal To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <00a001c4709f$21201c40$34442141@RaineyDay> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Steve I would file an appeal against unfair taxing and there should be some way maybe it will have to be done through higher ups, that while the appeal is being heard, the present bill is suspended pending that appeal. Typically this is the case with you being responsible for any interest if the tax is ruled on in their favor. Usually if the right person gets involved while they are reviewing it, the tax owed is suspended. I just had a review with the IRS of all people about using IRA money for schooling. They tried to say that I owed tax on all the monies withdrawn, plus 10% penalty. BUt when I furnished them with all the records showing school attendance and tuition costs, they agreed it was okay. While they were reviewing it, I didn't have to pay the back tax, and then wait for a refund. THat is kinda like saying you are guilty until proven innocent. I would keep climbing the ladder until you get to the State Tax Commisioner if that is what it takes to get relief until it is reviewed. Colin & Bev Rainey KR2(td) N96TA Sanford, FL crainey1@cfl.rr.com http://kr-builder.org/Colin/index.html ------------------------------ Message: 20 Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 05:19:14 -0500 From: larry flesner Subject: KR> Tax Bills To: KRnet Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040723051914.007fdd90@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 06:01 AM 7/23/04 -0400, you wrote: >Many years ago, I argued with our tax person and finally got them to >set the value to $7500 Daniel R. Heath ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Would the fact that you can't even get insurance on most KR's make them totally WORTHLESS and subject to no tax at all???????? :-) Run that past you tax assessor......... Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Message: 21 Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 07:06:24 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> Tax appeal To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <014401c470ad$79e06a20$5e0ca58c@net.tbe.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I think I would be combing the internet for KR sale prices, things like Ross's plane which he tried to sell on ebay and couldn't even get $3200 for, even though it was "almost ready to fly". Not prices that people WANT for them, but prices people GET for them. Ebay is a good place for those. For example, print out the one at http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=2485294622&category=63679&sspagename=WDVW whee the guy is asking $7000 "buy it now", and only has $4500 offered so far. My perception of an average ASKING price for a KR2 is about $6000-$8000. The really nice ones that show up at the Gathering (like Don Betchan's) might go for $12-14k. I saw one guy try to sell his for $24,000 for about three years, and I'm pretty sure he NEVER got anywhere near that for it. It must have been a nice one, and it only had a few hours on it, and I'm sure he had even more money IN it, but that's the reality of the KR selling world. I'd tell them to PROVE it to me that KRs are selling for the kinds of prices they're saying it's worth. I'd remind them too that if you have to sell it to somebody, they'll never get another DIME of tax revenue out of it, because it will almost certainly leave the county. Speaking of Don Betchan's plane N250KB that crashed a few weeks ago, Troy told me that Mike Kellum from Lewisburg Tennessee had just bought it from the guy in North Dakota (I think that's right) and was taking off headed home. Some kind of engine power problem brought him down right off the end of the runway, where the plane was totalled, but Mike only got cuts and bruises. He's owned several KRs and knows how to fly them, it was just an engine problem. Troy said when it was all over he was basically sitting in the field with the plane in little pieces all around him... Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL N56ML at hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Message: 22 Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 08:08:36 EDT From: JSMONDAY@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> West Coast Gathering To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" I guess that is because I got the date of the event off the title box on the current web page for last years event that shows up on the current webpage!!! Thanks, John Monday ------------------------------ Message: 23 Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 14:33:23 +0200 From: "Stephen Jacobs" Subject: RE: KR> Foam vs. Foam To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <000001c470b1$42b77c60$0664a8c0@home> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I understand the physical (chemical) differences between Styrofoam (polystyrene?) and Polyurethane. I have used Styrofoam in various densities from 2 to 6 lb/cub ft - the higher density stuff appears to be mechanically as strong (or stronger) than PolyU when used as a composite core material - is this correct? This may be a naïve question as I have not seen (touched) the stuff you call Lastofoam (Divinicel?). Maybe this is a mechanically stronger polyU, but the stuff locally available is very fragile - I can poke my finger all the way into it without much effort and the surface readily crumbles almost to a dust when rubbed - not an ideal surface to glue anything to. My wife uses it for flower arrangements. Styrofoam has its own draw backs in that Vinyl Ester resins (and most solvents /avgas) will attack it. I need to appreciate the structural qualities /suitability for use in the KR type construction. In a perfect world (and the US) a large variety of core materials can be purchased without any trouble - in fact, someone will deliver whatever you desire to your front door. This is not the case for me in Africa. I can however source good quality (not re-cycled) white Styrofoam in many densities from South Africa. The stuff is easy to "slice" into sheets of any thickness with a hot wire. It does not sand as well as polyU, but the higher density stuff is not too bad - it can be done. I am looking to do Mark L style sandwich wing skins - glass on both sides of the skin core. The logistics of shaping the material aside - can Styrofoam be used to the same good effect? The theory says that the strength of a composite sandwich increases almost exponentially with thickness. I cannot see that polyU will outperform Styrofoam in compressive or tensile strength - maybe the shear capability is the issue? I will appreciate any informed advice Regards Steve J ------------------------------ Message: 24 Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 07:46:50 -0500 From: "Larry A Capps" Subject: KR> Foam vs. Foam To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <000901c470b3$202ca470$0500a8c0@schpankme> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I actually prefer Divinycell over Last-A-Foam for most applications. PVC Foam = Divinycell (rigid PVC) Clark Foam = Last-A-Foam (unicellular polyurethane) Larry A Capps Naperville, IL "You're just jealous because the voices don't talk to you." -----Original Message----- This may be a naïve question as I have not seen (touched) the stuff you call Lastofoam (Divinicel?). Maybe this is a mechanically stronger polyU, but the stuff locally available is very fragile - I can poke my finger all the way into it without much effort and the surface readily crumbles almost to a dust when rubbed - not an ideal surface to glue anything to. My wife uses it for flower arrangements. Styrofoam has its own draw backs in that Vinyl Ester resins (and most solvents /avgas) will attack it. ------------------------------ Message: 25 Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 07:54:33 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> Foam vs. Foam To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <015201c470b4$33aebb90$5e0ca58c@net.tbe.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Steve Jacobs wrote: > I am looking to do Mark L style sandwich wing skins - glass on both > sides of the skin core. The logistics of shaping the material aside - > can Styrofoam be used to the same good effect? The theory says that > the strength of a composite sandwich increases almost exponentially > with thickness. Without digging up a bunch of charts for the various materials you mentioned, I'll just give you my uneducated opinion. You could use the (normally blue) kind of foam that doesn't look like little beads (and I think that is the Styrofoam you mention, made by Dow) just fine in your wing, if you aren't going to get fuel anywhere near it. I'm pretty sure that the skin would stick to it even better than urethane foam (well it'll stick to both, but the urethane fails earlier in tension), but it is maybe twice as time consuming to sand for that same reason. Sanding the wing foam to shape is not something that takes a lot of time anyway though, in the big scheme of things. And the neat thing about Styrofoam is that you can hotwire the inside (and the outside, if you're careful) pretty quickly. So Styrofoam will get you there, and your skin would be less likely to separate from the foam on the top surface after years of flying. I think Mike Mims used Styrofoam on his wings, since he was a former canard builder (see http://www.fortunecity.com/marina/anchor/270/wing.html , and make sure you see all three pages). To me, Lastofoam (Clark foam, whatever) is an improvement over urethane, especially for wing skins, because it's stronger and will bend further without breaking (not as brittle), and is pretty easy to sand too. Again, none of this is based on any kind of numbers that I got from anywhere, just experience having used them all to make composite shapes from... Those double skin wings probably cost me another 5 pounds per wing, but man are they stout! I sit on the wings to work on the back side of the panel (and rewire the radio), and I don't worry for a second about damaging anything. If I ever have to put it down in a cotton field, I'm going to be choppin' cotton! Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL N56ML at hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ----- ------------------------------ Message: 26 Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 07:44:45 -0700 From: "Steve Glover" Subject: RE: KR> Tax appeal To: "KRnet" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I've been looking for KR's for sale. Like you said, what people are asking is not what they most likely will get. Once the e-bay auction ends I am going to print that and send it along. Also, with having another KR on the field listed as cheap as they do, I don't know how they can justify their value. Steve Glover kr02g@cox.net KR-2 N902G AJO, Ca. ------------------------------ Message: 27 Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 07:56:20 -0700 From: "Steve Glover" Subject: KR> FW: West Coast Gathering To: Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" A great place for a West Coast Gathering would be Marysville, California. It is the same place they have the EAA Goldenwest Fly-in. Other than Goldenwest the airfield is none controlled and has a great location. It is about 40 miles north of Sacramento. I grew up in this area and still know a few people around the airport. The airport manager is very supportive of events like this. Does anyone live near Marysville? Regards, Steve Glover KR-2 N902G ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 346, Issue 43 ************************************** ================================== ABC Amber Outlook Converter v4.20 Trial version ==================================