From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net To: John Bouyea Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 346, Issue 54 Date: 7/30/2004 8:59:51 PM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. RE: Oshkosh Attendance (Brian Kraut) 2. RE: Oshkosh Attendance (Dana Overall) 3. Re: Number of KR sold (Phillip Matheson) 4. Re: Oshkosh Attendance/ Gathering (Phillip Matheson) 5. EAA, flybys, Gathering (Oscar Zuniga) 6. Re: Oshkosh Attendance (robert glidden) 7. Re: EAA, flybys, Gathering (robert glidden) 8. Re: @WL Re: KR> Wing Question (gleone) 9. RE: EAA, flybys, Gathering (Doug Rupert) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 17:55:09 -0400 From: "Brian Kraut" Subject: RE: KR> Oshkosh Attendance To: "KRnet" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" I don't know if it was an issue or not, but certainly having card carrying formation trained pilots would make it a lot easier to get them to accept a KR formation. I know that a lot of the other RV and other formations are by experienced teams. Now don't slam me. I have no idea if that was a consideration at all and I certainly believe that the KR deserves its fair time in the spotlight. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Jim Faughn Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 8:51 AM To: 'KRnet' Subject: RE: KR> Oshkosh Attendance Is there truth that we were shunned? I don't know, there is truth that they promised me certain things then didn't schedule it and had to rush around to deliver something that wasn't what we were promised. Do we carry a grudge? I've put it behind me and I think other issues are more prominent today for KR people as outlined above. Will I go back? If I'm still flying in 2007, you bet I'll be there and try to organize the 35th anniversary. See you at the Gathering. Jim Faughn ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 18:05:53 -0400 From: "Dana Overall" Subject: RE: KR> Oshkosh Attendance To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I can see how one might feel slighted by the occasion at Oshkosh. However, I have attached a cut and paste from an email I received from a waivered formation group which performs at Oshkosh and Sun & Fun. I seems the KR crowd is not the only ones who have fallen prey to the huge atmosphere of Oshkosh. I have deleted some parts of this email. Remember, at Oshkosh now any formation particapants must either be certified by the Warbird group or a have a card issued by FFI to fly in the waivered airspace. That is the only way Oshkosh or Sun & Fun will allow any formation flights. Large group flybys appear to be too much for Oshkosh to handle. Individual flybys are still open to factory sponsored demos. They must have the manufacturers backing which certainly would involve more than an OK. As you can see at the bottom of this email, showcase requirement for individual pilots exist. I would feel certain Rand Robinson would have to shoulder a financial responsibility in case of accident. I simply post this as a devil's advocate. Things may appear different to two people. >>>>>>In dealing with my contacts at OSH for the Flybys and Showcase, I requested (as we attempted to do last year before the mishap on RWY 09/27) to do the large flybys during the last 15 minutes of Flybys, with XXXXXXXXXX maneuvering remaining airborne to fly in Showcase. I received a response that XXXXXXX is scheduled for Showcase Tues and Thurs, but "Unfortunately, we simply cannot do the large ship formations (during Flybys), since that period of time is very unstable. Many times we have to ask Flybys to let ATC use his time frame for their traffic needs. We were happy to accommodate a large group for XXXX 30th Anniversary, but we feel that it just takes too much time to continue on a regular basis." I hope to change their minds on scene, so can you please verify who will be there and fly (FFI card required) from your groups so I can finalize my formation diagrams. We expect all those flying to be at XXX to practice Monday morning before leaving for OSH. Remember, you have to show pilots license, medical, FFI card, and insurance to fly at OSH.<<<<<<<<<<<<< Dana Overall 1999 & 2000 National KR Gathering host Richmond, KY i39 RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" Finish kit 13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon. http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero1.jpg http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero3.jpg http://rvflying.tripod.com/blackrudder.jpg do not archive ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 08:16:07 +1000 From: "Phillip Matheson" Subject: Re: KR> Number of KR sold To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <002e01c47682$d0202490$7596dccb@StationW2k04> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Mark Wrote Can you imagine just how many KR would be flying if every one that was started was finished. There have been over 12,000 sets of plans sold. That would be a lot of KR's. ---------------------------- What would you say to trying to make a builders list using the plans number. most likely impossible to list locate them all. Could we ( or should we) set up a register somewhere to list our Plan Number ?? Phillip Matheson matheson@dodo.com.au Australia VH PKR See our engines and kits at. http://www.vw-engines.com/ http://www.homebuilt-aviation.com/ See my KR at Mark Jones web http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/pmkr2.html ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 08:21:59 +1000 From: "Phillip Matheson" Subject: Re: KR> Oshkosh Attendance/ Gathering To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <003101c47683$a1d264d0$7596dccb@StationW2k04> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi gang, I was not aware of the EAA stand on KR's, will you be inviting the media and popular aviation magazines to the gathering ?? Wish I could be there. Best of luck and have a great weekend. Phillip Matheson matheson@dodo.com.au Australia VH PKR See our engines and kits at. http://www.vw-engines.com/ http://www.homebuilt-aviation.com/ See my KR at Mark Jones web http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/pmkr2.html ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 17:33:49 -0500 From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR> EAA, flybys, Gathering To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Folks, don't expect EAA to be able to accommodate type clubs or group fly-bys at Oshkosh anymore. They've gotten way beyond that point unless (like the Bonanza guys or the warbirds) it's extra impressive. A milestone anniversary for a design/type would be hard to get them to approve (unless you're a mass fly-by of RV's). It's far better, and more rewarding, to have type gatherings such as the KR Gathering at a more friendly venue among friends and aficionados of the type. The Pietenpol is celebrating its 75th anniversary this year, and had an overwhelming turnout at the Brodhead gathering (the "KR Gathering" of the Pietenpol world). But can you imagine what would happen if the Piet guys staged a fly-by at Oshkosh? At 60-65 MPH, it would take forever to get them all together, and people would nod off to sleep as they droned by. Don't get me wrong; I'm a Piet owner myself, but the big shows are just not interested in little stick airplanes anymore. If it costs under $35K or so, has no international marketing or presence, isn't sold in a blister-pack kit with a complete instructional video and connect-the-dots construction manual, it won't get to first base. If you want attention for your KR, come fly over Crawford, TX and you'll get it. Try a low pass at treetop height, flat out at 200 MPH so you can see the earphones in the Secret Service guys' ears. You will have instant, national recognition for your KR!!!!!!!! do not archive Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 17:45:03 -0500 From: "robert glidden" Subject: Re: KR> Oshkosh Attendance To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <027601c47686$daf374e0$0c00000a@computer2> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Mark Just got home from osh today about 3:30.Was great finally meeting you and Mark L. and Rich.Was super finally getting to set in a KR especially while it was ruuuuuuuning.Sorry my key was "missing out." Just kidding the project looks great looking forward to seeing everyone at the gathering.................Bob Original Message ----- From: "Mark Jones" To: "'KRnet'" Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 9:58 AM Subject: RE: KR> Oshkosh Attendance > Ed, > By golly it is only 55 days. I bet Stephen didn't know that. :-) > > Mark Jones > Mueller Sales Corporation > Ph: 262-781-5310 > Fax:262-781-4130 > E-mail: mjones@muellersales.com > Web: www.muellersales.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: ejanssen@chipsnet.com [mailto:ejanssen@chipsnet.com] > Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 9:47 AM > To: KRnet > Subject: Re: KR> Oshkosh Attendance > > I echo what Jim says about KR attendance at OSH. I think it's due to > a number of factors rather than just a single one, such as Herb's > accident. As far as the accident, I think I remember that the weather > was pretty hot that day and there was quite a long line of airplanes > and a long wait for guys to get in the air. I remember seeing Herb > and a couple others standing > outside next to their planes on the taxi way. So, it's possible that > he was > not feeling very well at the time. > > Also, it's been said that many KR builders are pretty hard working > individuals and it may be difficult for some to take off work to > attend. Like the Pietenpol clan and other type fly-ins, the KR group > really enjoy their own gathering - many, even more than Oshkosh. It's > often a matter of > choice. > > Let's all hope for good weather. This Gathering at Mt. Vernon should > be a fun one, for sure. Again, how many days left, Mark? :o) > > Ed Janssen > mailto:ejanssen@chipsnet.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jim Faughn" > To: "'KRnet'" > Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 7:50 AM > Subject: RE: KR> Oshkosh Attendance > > > > This is pretty much what happened although it leaves out the > > conversations I had with the EAA months previous that set up a KR > > only flyby. We even had conversations about a possible missing man > > formation to honor Ken. When we arrived at Oshkosh were not on the > > schedule. I did a lot of talking and at the last minute in place of > > one of the mornings general flybys we were told we could fly which > > really did make it a last minute thing. Whether this did or didn't > > have anything to do with Herb, we will never know. However, I still > > carry this with me because I'm also the one who set everything up > > and witnessed the crash. I can say that it did put a bad taste in > > everyone's mouth and none of us went back until 97 when I called a > > number of the pilots and said let's put it behind us and go again. > > It was tough to fly in that year. Of course everyone knows we did > > the same thing in 2002 and several of us went last year too. Quite > > frankly, I have lots of fun at Oshkosh but it is just a matter of > > time off and choosing priorities. I make it an absolute priority for > > the KR Gathering. > > > > Today, I think it is more an issue that there isn't a promotion for > > the KR at Oshkosh, other than what Mark and I have done. I believe > > that people want to be part of something and if you go to Oshkosh, > > what are you part of with the KR? Who do you talk to and ask > > questions of? If you go to the Gathering, you are definitely part of > > a great event and you can talk to "like minded people." These are > > people who love aviation, want a responsive airplane and love the > > idea of being able to own an affordable aircraft. > > > > Is there truth that we were shunned? I don't know, there is truth > > that they promised me certain things then didn't schedule it and had > > to rush around to deliver something that wasn't what we were > > promised. Do we carry a grudge? I've put it behind me and I think > > other issues are more prominent today for KR people as outlined > > above. Will I go back? If I'm still flying in 2007, you bet I'll be > > there and try to organize the 35th anniversary. > > > > See you at the Gathering. > > > > Jim Faughn > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: krnet-bounces+jfaughn=socket.net@mylist.net > > [mailto:krnet-bounces+jfaughn=socket.net@mylist.net] On Behalf Of > > Dan Heath > > Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 6:55 AM > > To: krnet@mylist.net > > Subject: Re: KR> Oshkosh Attendance > > > > RE: I've been around KR's for a lot of years and hear this every > > Oshkosh year. What I have never heard are the particulars. Was the > > KR actually slighted or was it just perceived? Dan, do you know the > > issues? > > > > I was there that year. Bob Muse and I tried to get out of Atlanta, > > but the weather formed a solid wall from around Chatanooga, so I > > flew back home and got in the car and drove to be at the dinner for > > the 20th anniversary. There was a fly by planned and the KRs were > > not told untill the last minute that they were to go. They were > > being squeezed in, between all the big money planes. > > > > We got there in time to hear the announcement that Herb Bull, the > > person who did the painting for Jeanette, had crashed of a heart > > attack during the fly by. He had to haul his plane in a hurry to > > get it to where they had to take off. Maybe he knew he should not > > fly or not. Maybe all the extra induced stress because the EAA > > forgot where there roots are, brought it on, who knows. > > > > The bottom line, as I understood it at the time, is that the EAA was > > too busy showing off the big money planes, to allow the KR to > > participate in an organized fly by as was planned by the KR people. > > > > This in NOT an excuse, and, on my life's list of things to do, is > > still to fly my own plane to Oshkosh. I will fly this plane to > > Oshkosh and every other place that I can. > > > > Marty and Dan Diehl were there along with a lot of the other old > > timers. I don't know how many KRs were there, but I do know that > > they all were very dissappointed in the EAA and that has stuck with > > me for over 10 years and until EAA does something to show that they > > remember where they came from, it will never go away. > > > > If you want to see KRs come to the Gathering. As many as can get > > there, get there. That should tell you something. > > > > > > "There is a time for building and a time for GOING TO THE GATHERING, > > and the time for building has long since expired." See you in Mt. > > Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering http://KRGathering.org See N64KR at > > http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics Daniel R. Heath - > > Columbia, SC > > > > > > _______________________________________ > > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > > > > > > _______________________________________ > > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 17:48:21 -0500 From: "robert glidden" Subject: Re: KR> EAA, flybys, Gathering To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <027d01c47687$50e899a0$0c00000a@computer2> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Guess this is more reason to start supporting the SAA...should be about the quality of building,not the quantity on money spent... Bob Glidden KR2S ----- Original Message ----- From: "Oscar Zuniga" To: Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 5:33 PM Subject: KR> EAA, flybys, Gathering > Folks, don't expect EAA to be able to accommodate type clubs or group > fly-bys at Oshkosh anymore. They've gotten way beyond that point > unless (like the Bonanza guys or the warbirds) it's extra impressive. > A milestone > anniversary for a design/type would be hard to get them to approve > (unless you're a mass fly-by of RV's). It's far better, and more > rewarding, to have > type gatherings such as the KR Gathering at a more friendly venue > among friends and aficionados of the type. > > The Pietenpol is celebrating its 75th anniversary this year, and had > an overwhelming turnout at the Brodhead gathering (the "KR Gathering" > of the Pietenpol world). But can you imagine what would happen if the > Piet guys staged a fly-by at Oshkosh? At 60-65 MPH, it would take > forever to get them > all together, and people would nod off to sleep as they droned by. > Don't get me wrong; I'm a Piet owner myself, but the big shows are > just not interested in little stick airplanes anymore. If it costs > under $35K or so, > has no international marketing or presence, isn't sold in a > blister-pack kit > with a complete instructional video and connect-the-dots construction > manual, it won't get to first base. > > If you want attention for your KR, come fly over Crawford, TX and > you'll get > it. Try a low pass at treetop height, flat out at 200 MPH so you can > see the earphones in the Secret Service guys' ears. You will have > instant, national recognition for your KR!!!!!!!! > > do not archive > > Oscar Zuniga > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 17:18:43 -0600 (Mountain Standard Time) From: "gleone" Subject: Re: @WL Re: KR> Wing Question To: Message-ID: <410AD753.00000A.03332@YOUR-FD6NVJCER4> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Permanently fixed wings isn't a bad idea though it makes it a little hard to transport it to and from where ever. Also, since I'm building the KR-1/-1B, I sort of need the ability to switch between both sets of wings. Still, there's nothing that says you can't make the wings a "permanent" part of the plane and keep it at the airport. Just sort of like the idea of being able to switch out wings and not pay tie down fees. Just my 2 cents worth. Gene in Wyoming When you give a lesson in meanness to a critter or a person, don't be surprised if they learn their lesson. -------Original Message------- From: KRnet Date: 07/30/04 12:45:23 To: KRnet Subject: @WL Re: KR> Wing Question The folding wing does exist and looks fairly simple to install. I even won a free set of plans some time ago. However, I decided that I would feel safer with a permanent attachment rather than continually connecting and disconnecting the wings. Just me. Ray LJHusky1@wmconnect.com wrote: I am almost ready for my KR to become a reality. I was wondering if the folding wing ever came through. I know that there was some plans raffled off and I was wondering if there was a finished project or has it been scrapped. If not, then how long does it take to remove the wings from a KR? Thanks Larry Husky Bentonville, AR _______________________________________ to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! _______________________________________ to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 23:56:58 -0400 From: "Doug Rupert" Subject: RE: KR> EAA, flybys, Gathering To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <01e901c476b2$6f5e6510$a504e440@office> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Do I get to black out my numbers and drop a bag full of dog do-do? Doug Rupert -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net] On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 6:34 PM To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR> EAA, flybys, Gathering If you want attention for your KR, come fly over Crawford, TX and you'll get it. Try a low pass at treetop height, flat out at 200 MPH so you can see the earphones in the Secret Service guys' ears. You will have instant, national recognition for your KR!!!!!!!! Oscar Zuniga ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 346, Issue 54 ************************************** ================================== ABC Amber Outlook Converter v4.20 Trial version ==================================