From: krnet-bounces+johnbou=speakeasy.net@mylist.net To: John Bouyea Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 346, Issue 63 Date: 5/9/2004 9:00:40 PM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: KR2 VS KR2S (JW) 2. Re: Set back (JW) 3. Re: Corvair Gear Reduction. (Phil Matheson) 4. Re: Set back (Mark Jones) 5. Re: outboard spars for sale (Mark Langford) 6. Corvair Gear Reduction. (larry flesner) 7. Re: new airfoil instructions (Mark Langford) 8. Re: KR2 VS KR2S (Mark Langford) 9. RE: New 2S philosophy, was outboard spars for sale (Brian Kraut) 10. Wittman type gear (Len Steyn) 11. unsubscribe (Russell Barnett) 12. Re: Set back (Mark Langford) 13. Re: new airfoil instructions (Phil Matheson) 14. Re: new airfoil instructions (Mark Langford) 15. Re: Set back (Mark Jones) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 9 May 2004 12:07:12 -0500 From: "JW" Subject: Re: KR> KR2 VS KR2S To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <000701c435e8$1241e650$ed7ba8c0@computer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Like I said I would I got my plans. To prove my point I even took pictures avail here http://www.geocities.com/attngrabber14/plans.html The KR2 at station 'A' is 34.25" 'B' 38" 'C' 36.75" The KR2S at station 'A' is 36" 'B' 38" 'C' 36.75" Given that data the KR2S is wider but only at the firewall. The only reason I can think of why RR would make only the firewall wider would be less stress on the boat sides. I bet a stock KR2 would be very very tough to install crossmembers, it's shorter and must bend more. Justin KR2S ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Langford" To: "KRnet" Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 6:30 AM Subject: Re: KR> KR2 VS KR2S > JW wrote: > > > Not trying to argue with you Mark but if I remember right my KR2S > > plans > say > > for a larger cockpit than the KR2. I will be looking at those plans > > real soon to double check. I have the 1992 S plans. > > People keep saying the 2S is wider, and I keep thinking it's not, so I > always go back and lay the plans out on the floor and compare them directly. > That's what I did again last night, and they're STILL the same width! > The S > has two more inches of leg room, and a little more head room (which is also > variable with the seat height anyway), but the WIDTH is the same. > This is probably so the RR pre-molds (except for aft deck) would fit > both the KR2 and the KR2S. > > > Off the topic but....... are there any tricks to the boat with > > the plywood already installed to releive tension? I put it in the > > jig then wet > > it with water. The next day I started to bring in the sides to the > > dementions, it;s been sitting that way for 3 days, with me giving it > water. > > Would this be proper or is there better ways of doing this? > > I think the water method is probably is good as any. Steam would be > even better (as Dr. Dean proved), but the logitics of that method are > prohibitive. And doing it slowly helps too. Bending a little more > each day > over the period of a week is probably good enough. How do I know that three > days isn't enough? I cracked one of my longerons while bending mine. Just > make sure everything is dry before you actually glue anything. And > while you're making your "boat", glue in a temporary cross member or > two across the upper longerons in the seating area to make sure that > the cockpit doesn't "close up" while you're not looking. Don't ask me > how I know this will happen... > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL > N56ML at hiwaay.net > see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sun, 9 May 2004 13:11:00 -0500 From: "JW" Subject: Re: KR> Set back To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <001401c435f0$fbb60610$ed7ba8c0@computer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Thats too bad Mark =(. Since I dont have a WW manual yet, is 1/4" 6061-T6 what the manual suggest to make the starter mount? I would surely like to know if what was recommended is not strong enough, far in advance before flight. Justin KR2S ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Jones" To: "KR Net" ; "Corvaircraft" Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2004 7:06 PM Subject: KR> Set back > As most of you know, I have been working diligently to meet my > personal deadline of getting an airworthiness inspection by July 1st. That is still my goal but I have encountered an unexpected set back. I have boasted that I have had a totally leak free engine for the past 17.8 hours. Well. that changed today at the 18.0 hour mark. I have a major leak developing around my starter mounting plate. Upon close examination, I have determined that the starter has actually bent the 1/4" 6061-T6 > angle which the mounting bracket was made from. It is back to the > drawing board to make a yet stronger mount for my starter. I guess there is something to be said about test running an engine on the ground before flight. It took eighteen hours for this to develop and I am glad I was not in the air dripping oil and not knowing it. > > > > vAIRCRAFT web site at > http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Sun, 9 May 2004 21:12:12 +1000 From: "Phil Matheson" Subject: Re: KR> Corvair Gear Reduction. To: "KRnet" Cc: Ron Slender Message-ID: <007e01c435b6$930588f0$6796dccb@Office> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" This is for the Corvair airheads. I hope you enjoy it. Vw Engines Now have Corvair Engine Reduction units http://vw-engines.com/corvair/images/picture204b.jpg Or see the lot at http://www.vw-engines.com/main.htm & scroll down to Corvair Conversion on the left side of the page. OR Check out the VW engines while you are there. Phil Matheson matheson@dodo.com.au VH-PKR ( reserved) 61 3 58833588 See our VW Engines and Home built web page at http://www.vw-engines.com/ www.homebuilt-aviation.com/ ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Sun, 9 May 2004 07:55:45 -0500 From: "Mark Jones" Subject: Re: KR> Set back To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <001a01c435c4$f1e69860$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Justin, The type bracket I have is not in William's manual. The location and design is from someone else.That person recognized the weak link and changed his original design of mount for a better mounting bracket. I did not change mine as I thought it was strong enough. Had I supported the rear of the starter, I would have not developed a leak. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "JW" To: "KRnet" Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2004 1:11 PM Subject: Re: KR> Set back > Thats too bad Mark =(. Since I dont have a WW manual yet, is 1/4" > 6061-T6 what the manual suggest to make the starter mount? I would > surely like to know if what was recommended is not strong enough, far > in advance before flight. > > Justin > KR2S > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark Jones" > To: "KR Net" ; "Corvaircraft" > > Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2004 7:06 PM > Subject: KR> Set back > > > > As most of you know, I have been working diligently to meet my > > personal > deadline of getting an airworthiness inspection by July 1st. That is > still my goal but I have encountered an unexpected set back. I have > boasted that I > have had a totally leak free engine for the past 17.8 hours. Well. > that changed today at the 18.0 hour mark. I have a major leak > developing around my starter mounting plate. Upon close examination, I > have determined that the starter has actually bent the 1/4" 6061-T6 > > angle which the mounting bracket was made from. It is back to the drawing > board to make a yet stronger mount for my starter. I guess there is > something to be said about test running an engine on the ground before > flight. It took eighteen hours for this to develop and I am glad I was > not in the air dripping oil and not knowing it. > > > > > > > > vAIRCRAFT web site at > > http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html > > > > _______________________________________ > > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 15:12:07 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> outboard spars for sale To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <011601c4346f$975aa1d0$e802a58c@n56ml> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Brian Kraut wrote: > I tried to remove my center section forward spar today without > damaging it, > but no luck. It does come out very easily though when you saw it off > with a > sawzall and remove the remaining pieces with a wood chisel. Brian, I assume you're planning on using the thicker 18% AS 5048 airfoil tapering to the 15% AS5046. Otherwise, if you are simply swapping to the 16% AS5046, you don't need to change the main spar at all, or replace the outer spars. Just didn't want anybody to get the impression that changing to the new airfoil required hacking the main spar out. More info on the airfoil is at http://www.krnet.org/as504x/ , with installation instructions at http://www.krnet.org/as504x/ . The thicker airfoil gives you more room for fuel in the wing tanks, and the potential for a main spar that is either lighter or stronger than the plans version (due to it's extra height), whichever you decide to use. Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama N56ML "at" hiwaay.net see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Sun, 09 May 2004 08:01:30 -0500 From: larry flesner Subject: KR> Corvair Gear Reduction. To: KRnet Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040509080130.00814340@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Phil, So how much are the PSRU's for the Corvair and how much do they weigh? They look great but they also look heavy. On the chart, is the RPM given (i.e., 2500rpm for 130hp?) the propeller rpm or engine rpm? Perhaps some verbage giving engine rpm, propeller rpm, and hp might be a bit more understandable. I'd sure love to have one of those babies in my KR to replace the 0-200. I'd bet I could give a few RV's a run for their money !!! Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 14:18:53 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR>new airfoil instructions To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <013701c43468$246aaaf0$e802a58c@n56ml> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Airfioil installation instructions are at http://www.krnet.org/as504x/as5046inst.html . Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama N56ML "at" hiwaay.net see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 15:10:21 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> KR2 VS KR2S To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <016201c4346f$6fad7770$e802a58c@n56ml> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Justin wrote: > Like I said I would I got my plans. To prove my point I even took > pictures avail here http://www.geocities.com/attngrabber14/plans.html > The KR2 at station 'A' is 34.25" 'B' 38" 'C' 36.75" > The KR2S at station 'A' is 36" 'B' 38" 'C' 36.75" > Given that data the KR2S is wider but only at the firewall. The only reason > I can think of why RR would make only the firewall wider would be less > stress on the boat sides. I bet a stock KR2 would be very very tough > to install crossmembers, it's shorter and must bend more. What you SAID was: > "Not trying to argue with you Mark but if I remember right my KR2S > plans say for a larger cockpit than the KR2". < and then I said: >People keep saying the 2S is wider, and I keep thinking it's not, so I always go back and lay the plans out on the floor and compare them directly. That's what I did again last night, and they're STILL the same width! The S has two more inches of leg room, and a little more head room (which is also variable with the seat height anyway), but the WIDTH is the same. < Now it looks like you proved exactly what I said. The COCKPIT (stations B and C) is exactly the same width in the 2S as it is in the S, unless you want to count the extra 2 inches of width at the FIREWALL, which is not what most people consider to be the cockpit. I guess if you wanted to split hairs you could say that the 2S has 2 more inches of "foot width", but I don't know of anybody that's ever complained of not having enough foot width! I HAVE heard a lot of complaints about SHOULDER and BUTT room, which are identical for both aircraft. My guess as to why the firewall is wider on the 2S was to provide more room for larger engines, such as Roy Marsh's turbo installation, and 0-200's, for example. Also, the KR2 had a somewhat discontinuous side where the cowling attached, when viewed from the top, and the wider firewall helped to fair those lines between the cowling and the fuselage at the firewall area. Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama N56ML "at" hiwaay.net see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Sun, 9 May 2004 10:32:58 -0400 From: "Brian Kraut" Subject: RE: KR> New 2S philosophy, was outboard spars for sale To: "KRnet" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I am using the thicker airfoil with the taper. The reason I hacked out the spar is because I am going to increase my center spar length to about 10'. I am doing that for a couple of reasons. One is because I want big flaps in the center section. The second reason is because I am doing away with the header tank and putting all my fuel in the stub wing tanks. One time hanging upside down from the seatbelt over a burning header tank is more than enough for me. It will also allow me to have a removable front deck to get to the avionics and rudder pedals easily, and maybe even a small forward baggage compartment. I wouldn't do away with the header tank with the VW, but since I will use a Corvair with a mechanical fuel pump and an electric boost pump I have no problem not having gravity feed. I plan to have a pretty good amount of fuel in the stubs. I have done a 4.3 hour cross country in a KR before, and I can easily go 6 hours and I like to have reserves. I also like the idea of having my C.G. not moving way aft as I burn fuel like it did with the header tank. I realize that I could have had the fuel and the flaps in the outboard wings, but it seemed like it would be a lot easier in the stubs. If I keep the same tip chord and wing span I will be increasing the taper ratio of the wing a lot which does not help spin characteristics any. It also decreases the aspect ratio which hurts speed. I may decrease the chord in the stubs a little so I can keep a higher aspect ratio and not increase the wing area so much. Whatever I do, I will run the options by an aeronautical engineer first. I will probably increase the wing area a little. I will have more than enough speed with the Corvair and I don't mind trading off some of it for a higher gross weight. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Mark Langford Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 4:12 PM To: KRnet Subject: Re: KR> outboard spars for sale Brian Kraut wrote: > I tried to remove my center section forward spar today without > damaging it, > but no luck. It does come out very easily though when you saw it off > with a > sawzall and remove the remaining pieces with a wood chisel. Brian, I assume you're planning on using the thicker 18% AS 5048 airfoil tapering to the 15% AS5046. Otherwise, if you are simply swapping to the 16% AS5046, you don't need to change the main spar at all, or replace the outer spars. Just didn't want anybody to get the impression that changing to the new airfoil required hacking the main spar out. More info on the airfoil is at http://www.krnet.org/as504x/ , with installation instructions at http://www.krnet.org/as504x/ . The thicker airfoil gives you more room for fuel in the wing tanks, and the potential for a main spar that is either lighter or stronger than the plans version (due to it's extra height), whichever you decide to use. Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama N56ML "at" hiwaay.net see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford _______________________________________ to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Sun, 9 May 2004 17:29:20 +0200 From: "Len Steyn" Subject: KR> Wittman type gear To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <000e01c435da$8074d6e0$b8a8fea9@co.za> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Has anyone ever tried Wittman type gear on a KR, something like the RV4. What would the advantage be, if any. Please help Len ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Sun, 9 May 2004 12:23:46 -0500 From: "Russell Barnett" Subject: KR> unsubscribe To: Message-ID: <010601c435ea$662fe210$3e01bd3f@tsdxv7wu1cr4to8> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Sun, 9 May 2004 16:13:29 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> Set back To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <007601c4360a$7a35b710$2402a8c0@800Athlon> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Mark Jones wrote: > The type bracket I have is not in William's manual. The location and design > is from someone else.That person recognized the weak link and changed > his original design of mount for a better mounting bracket. Actually, I changed mine because I was worried that I probably couldn't get into some of the nooks and crannies to thoroughly weld (or braze, as the case was then) the casting to the angle, and also I was able to save the bypasses by just welding on the extra tab (Mark knows where this is, but others can find it at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/corvair/sentra.html#update . I probably need to fix the other end of my starter so it doesn't flex too, although it sure doesn't budge now when the starter's running. A sturdy P-clamp should do it. Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL N56ML "at" hiwaay.net see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 07:55:43 +1000 From: "Phil Matheson" Subject: Re: KR>new airfoil instructions To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <002f01c43610$7262f100$3096dccb@Office> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Mark or anyone who wishes comment. I'm no aircraft engineer or I will ask what may be a silly question. What would happen if the rear main spar was moved to the position noted for the new AS5048 ( 1 inch above the longerons) but still used the standard KR2 wing . Phil Matheson matheson@dodo.com.au VH-PKR ( reserved) 61 3 58833588 See our VW Engines and Home built web page at http://www.vw-engines.com/ www.homebuilt-aviation.com/ ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Sun, 9 May 2004 17:33:06 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR>new airfoil instructions To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <004601c43615$9c2e0010$2402a8c0@800Athlon> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Phil Matheson wrote: > What would happen if the rear main spar was moved to the position > noted for > the new > AS5048 ( 1 inch above the longerons) but still used the standard KR2 > wing . I think what you are asking is do I think the KR2 (or even 2S) has too much incidence, and I personally think it does, especially if you are going as fast as most do these days. I don't think it would hurt a bit to lower it a degree, and maybe even two on the faster ones. Mine is set up for 1 degree of incidence, and 2 degrees of washout, using the AS5046. We'll see how it goes. Of course my horizontal stabilizer is set to negative .75 degrees too, and I have the option of moving it to anywhere I want to trim things up like I want them later on. I would think if you lowered the incidence of the main wings, you'd need to lower the incidence of the h/s as well, but that has yet to be proven. Somebody needs to build an adjustable h/s and prove the best angle, kinda like I'm going to do with the AS5046. Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL N56ML "at" hiwaay.net see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Sun, 9 May 2004 21:03:33 -0500 From: "Mark Jones" Subject: Re: KR> Set back To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <008101c43632$ff8fdee0$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >Mark Langford wrote: >I probably need to fix the other end of my starter so it doesn't flex >too, although it > sure doesn't budge now when the starter's running. A sturdy P-clamp should > do it. Absolutely. Mine did not move either...at least to the naked eye. But with many many starts over the 18 hours, it did. I am going to concentrate on finishing my wings, get the inspection done, then make a new starter mount. Over the weekend, I applied two coats of primer to the entire fuselage. It is absolutely beautiful being all white. It is by no means perfect but I have seen a lot worse. Like Langford says "good enough for KR work". Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 346, Issue 63 ************************************** ================================== ABC Amber Outlook Converter v4.20 Trial version ==================================