From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net on behalf of krnet-request@mylist.net Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2004 12:00 PM To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 277, Issue 3 Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Window under the passenger seat (Brian Kraut) 2. Re: Window under the passenger seat (Rick Wilson) 3. RE: Window under the passenger seat (Serge F. Vidal) 4. Tank System (Mark Jones) 5. Re: KR static system el cheapo (Dana Overall) 6. Re: Engines - Certified versus automotive conversions (David Mikesell) 7. Fw: KR>Throttle quadrant (Norm Seel) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 13:09:59 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: Brian Kraut To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>Window under the passenger seat Message-ID: <14087854.1073844600379.JavaMail.root@bert.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 1 As far as weakening the structure, my initial thought would be that it would be no problem as long as you put a doubler ring epoxied on the inside of the skin. The width and thickness of the ring I will leave to the other structural experts to argue. As to the idea of the window I can give a few insights from my experience. I have both looked out and taken plenty of pictures out of windows in a Cherokee and my KR. I have also looked out and taken pictures out of the little opening vent window on the pilots side of Cherokees. From my experience the pictures you get through the open window are several orders of magnitude better than what you get through the plexiglass. I would definitely make it an opening window. You also need to remember that, with no exceptions that I know of, all KRs generally have their bellies soaked with oil most of the time. I think a window would be hard to see through most of the time, let alone to take pictures through it unless it is opened. Another thing to consider is that if you have a window open on the bottom you need to watch out for exhaust gasses getting into the cockpit. At the very least put in a carbon monoxide detector and make sure that it is not a problem before you go and do an hour photo shoot. It may be fine, may need some kind of deflector in front of the window to direct the exhaust down, may have airflow from your other cockpit ventilation come in and blow out the hole in the bottom so you won't get any exhaust in. Hard to say what you will get. One more consideration is that you won't be able to keep a KR straight and level while you are bent over the passenger seat looking at the camera for very long. If you just snap occasional pictures you may be fine. If this is something you do professionaly and you need to take pictures of specific things from low altitudes You should consider some kind of camera mount and some way to look at what you are shooting and out the windshield at the same time or set it up so you can fly while the passenger takes pictures through the hole with the camera between his legs. Good luck. Serge F. Vidal wrote: This one is for structure experts. I have been dreaming for a while of cutting a window (a clear hatch, if you prefer) under the passenger seat. This would be a round window, about 12 cm (say 6 inches) in diameter. I would use it when I fly solo, with the passenger seat bottom cushion removed, as a camera window, to take pictures (verticall, or at a deep angle). Ideally, it could open, so that I can get a camera lens directly through it. Questions: - Is it feasible without weakening the structure? - If yes, is 12cm / 6 inches diameter OK? - How much must I reinforce (how thick must the reinforcement flange be?) - How thick is the floor at that place? - Any idea for the opening mechanism? Serge Vidal KR2 ZS-WEC Tunis, Tunisia _______________________________________________ see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 10:25:30 -0800 (PST) From: Rick Wilson To: serge.vidal@ate-international.com, KRnet Subject: Re: KR>Window under the passenger seat Message-ID: <20040111182530.63592.qmail@web21202.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <000d01c3d868$63024f40$2c0101c0@ate.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 2 Serge, You may want to consider a camera mount and make a sliding window that would be opened by sliding to one side or the other. Rick Wilson. --- "Serge F. Vidal" wrote: > This one is for structure experts. > > I have been dreaming for a while of cutting a window > (a clear hatch, if you > prefer) under the passenger seat. This would be a > round window, about 12 cm > (say 6 inches) in diameter. I would use it when I > fly solo, with the > passenger seat bottom cushion removed, as a camera > window, to take pictures > (verticall, or at a deep angle). Ideally, it could > open, so that I can get a > camera lens directly through it. > > Questions: > > - Is it feasible without weakening the structure? > - If yes, is 12cm / 6 inches diameter OK? > - How much must I reinforce (how thick must the > reinforcement flange be?) > - How thick is the floor at that place? > - Any idea for the opening mechanism? > > Serge Vidal > KR2 ZS-WEC > Tunis, Tunisia > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ===== Rick Wilson, Haleyville, Alabama KR2-0200A -99% rwdw2002@yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 19:27:29 +0100 From: "Serge F. Vidal" To: "'Brian Kraut'" , "'KRnet'" Subject: RE: KR>Window under the passenger seat Message-ID: <000e01c3d870$92fc7060$2c0101c0@ate.com> In-Reply-To: <14087854.1073844600379.JavaMail.root@bert.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 3 Thanks, Brian, for these thoughts. I agree. I want the window to open, because I know it will be dirty, and you don't shoot nice pictures through Perspex anyway. About the exhaust fumes, I think it will be OK if I open the hatch only to shoot the pics. My idea is to make a spring loaded mechanism, and a decent seal, so as the window gets sealed until you open it. And I don't want to do any camera settings. There will be a camera bracket, adjustable in tilt angle only. When I want a pic, I open the hatch, push the autofocus button, then shoot, and close the hatch. Period. So, can anybody tell me how thick must the ring be? Serge Oh, and a present for you, Brian. I send you a separate E-mail with a pic of myself flying my KR2 over Soweto, South Africa (taken at arm's length, I was alone on board) _______________________________________________ see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html _______________________________________________ see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 12:31:31 -0600 From: "Mark Jones" To: "KR Net" Subject: KR>Tank System Message-ID: <007c01c3d871$22be3260$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 4 I have a fuel tank in each out board wing and will be pumping fuel into = a header tank so I can have gravity flow to my carb. The fuel lines from = the wing tanks to the header and to the carb are all 3/8". I have some = questions.=20 1) Should the header tank have a fill cap? 2) Should I have one return line to each wing tank or would one line = with a Tee in it suffice? 3) Should the return line be 3/8" or larger (like 1/2")? 4) Should I vent the header tank? Each wing tank is independently = vented. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA=20 E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at =20 http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 14:04:26 -0500 From: "Dana Overall" To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>KR static system el cheapo Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 5 >From: "Kenneth B. Jones" >Reply-To: KRnet >To: "KRnet" >The rivet called out, .....42BS...., only has a grip length of 1/8". >Seems you would want something longer, like a 46 (3/16" grip) or 48 >(1/4" grip). > >Ken Jones >Sharonville, OH > While I will agree with numerical identifications for various lengths, this rivet shaft is much longer than a grip length of 1/8". I just went and look at the pulled length. It is much longer than 1/8". The shank is probably at least 1/4" plus, unpulled. For the KR, one may very well want to just flox the thing into the fuselage. Either way, it isn't going anywhere. As for positioning a static port, for reference only, mine is located at a point 60% of the total fuselage length aft of the firewall. You don't want it to received ram air. The dome rivet head forces the air to flow more quickly over the head generating a desirable, consistant low pressure area. Dana Overall 1999 & 2000 National KR Gathering host Richmond, KY RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" Finish kit Buying Instruments. Hangar flying my Dynon. http://rvflying.tripod.com do not archive _________________________________________________________________ Find high-speed ‘net deals — comparison-shop your local providers here. https://broadband.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 11:30:12 -0800 From: "David Mikesell" To: "KRnet" Subject: Re: KR>Engines - Certified versus automotive conversions Message-ID: <005401c3d879$5610f460$03fea8c0@davids> References: <3.0.6.32.20040111114736.007e0100@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 6 I usually just read but I have to say something now. I have been in aviation my entire life, mostly in helicopters for the army.......automotive engines are a lot better choice and they don't need redunant systems. When lyco and cont made engines magnetos were very unreliable so they put 2 on incase one failed. With 2 magnetos you have to have two wiring harnesses and two spark plugs. Modern automotive engines use a electronic ignition that takes years of abuse and hundred of thousands of miles with no maintenance at all.............you never work on your ignition system all you do is change the wires and plugs and for the most part they work flawlessly. If you look at it realistically milllions of people operate their car daily, and really abuse it compared to the operation of a aircraft engine, and it never needs maintenance..........automotive engines are alot more reliable than people give them credit for........and since I take care of several cessna's, beeches, stearman and a p51 and have been doing this most of my life i got a pretty good look at the whole picture. David Mikesell 23597 N. Hwy 99 Acampo, CA 95220 209-609-8774 skyguynca@skyguynca.com www.skyguynca.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "larry flesner" To: ; "KRnet" Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2004 9:47 AM Subject: Re: KR>Engines - Certified versus automotive conversions > > >Yes, aircraft engines have specific requirements. Yes, standard automotive > >engines do not meet all of these requirements, especially the > >redundancy principle (no single failure must lead to catastrophic > >failure). Serge Vidal > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++= > > REALITY CHECK....... > > Beyond the dual mags, harness, and plugs, the aircraft engine has no > advantage over any other engine when it comes to redundancy. > > Loose a connecting rod, bearing, piston, crank, cylinder, oil line, > cam, carb, engine control cables, etc., etc., etc., and ANY engine is > reduced to a weighted object bolted to the airframe that will help > keep the W.& B. correct and the aircraft controlable until you reach > the landing/crash site. > > The only true redundancy is to fly a twin engine aircraft and that > opens a whole new can of worms. > > Pick an engine that you are comfortable flying behind so you can enjoy > the flight hours you get until it someday fails and do your best to > postpone that event as long as possible. I've been lucky in that with > nearly 1000 flight hours I've not had to deal with that situation but, > if I continue to fly, I'm sure some day I will. I can only hope it > will be a very unexciting story for me to tell my friends. :-) > > Larry Flesner > Carterville, Illinois > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 14:34:44 -0800 From: "Norm Seel" To: "Krnet" Subject: Fw: KR>Throttle quadrant Message-ID: <004a01c3d893$1cc3ec20$e6c12304@dslverizon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 7 Me too, please. Thanks. Noman.seel@verizon.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "robert cooper" To: "KRnet" Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2004 9:16 AM Subject: Re: KR>Throttle quadrant > Serge > I would also like to have some pictures of the quadrant. If you have some > digital pictures please email me with pictures attached > mailto:kr2cooper@earthlink.net Thanks > Jack Cooper > > > > [Original Message] > > From: Bob Stone > > To: ; KRnet > > Date: 1/11/04 9:40:01 AM > > Subject: Re: KR>Throttle quadrant > > > > Serge, > > How about some pictures of your throttle quadrant at least > > what > one would need to make one like it. Of course this will have to be > off net > since no attachments are allowed. > > > > Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx > > rstone4@hot.rr.com > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Serge F. Vidal" > > To: "'KRnet'" > > Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2004 5:34 PM > > Subject: KR>Throttle quadrant > > > > > > > Since I am now many miles away from my KR2, I keep myself busy > > by > making > > > some parts that do not require many measurements. I started with > redoing the > > > throttle quadrant. Of course, you don't need a throttle quadrant > > if > you are > > > happy with a push-pull, vernier type throttle, but if, like me, > > you > like to > > > fly "HOTAS" (Hands on Throttle and Stick, another militaruy acronym), > > > fighter style, a quadrant is not only nice to have but also > > fairly > easy to > > > make. > > > Today, ZS-WEC (that's my KR2) just has a boat type aluminum > > handle > that is > > > simply bolted through a hole to a plate along the side wall, and > tightened > > > with a locknut. It has worked fine for eight years, but it lacks > > two > things: > > > adequate protection, and adjustable friction. > > > > > > My new throttle is now finished. I am very happy with the > > result. In > fact, > > > it is the best looking part I have ever made. Pictures > > available, as > well as > > > Power Point templates to cut the parts, if you want to replicate > > it. > It is a > > > bit overdesigned, but as Tony Bingelis puts it, it's the single > > most > used > > > control, so, maybe it's worth a few extra grams and added effort. > > > Here are a few advices that will save you some trial and error. > > > > > > - The most difficult part to find is the knob. Ideally, what you need > is a > > > screw, anything between 6mm and 12mm, at least 30mm in length, > > with a > knob > > > attached. I found one at a hardware shop, but I have no clue for what > it is > > > normally used. If you can't find anything, a butterfly (wing) > > screw > will do. > > > - The easiest way to make the throttle lever, and more > > important, the > > > throttle friction knob work, is to avoid any friction between > > the > knob and > > > the lever. Otherwise, the action of the lever will loosen the > > knob. > So, make > > > the knob so as its axle goes freely through the handle, and > > design > your work > > > so as if you tighten the knob, it squashes the lever and its friction > > > washers between two plates. > > > - The best washers for friction seem to be Nylon washers. > > > - You will save a lot in working time and design complexity by > > using > Rivnuts > > > (these are sorts of large rivets, threaded on the inside, that > > you > can rivet > > > to a plate pretty much like a Pop rivet). > > > > > > Here is what I did: > > > > > > - The throttle is basically made of one plate (the handle) > > squashed > between > > > two other plates (the base plate and the cover plate), with everything > > > adequately spaced. > > > - I cut the support plate out of a 2mm aluminium sheet, hard > > grade > (2024T3), > > > and the cover plate out of a 1mm sheet. I think 1mm everywhere > > would > work > > > just as fine. > > > - I then rivetted one 8mm thread Rivnut to the plate, at the > position of > > > theknob axle. This is the thread where the friction knob will > > screw > in. > > > - I riveted four 5mm Rivnuts at the corners, facing up (these > > hold > the two > > > plates together) > > > - I cut 4 spacers out of an aluminum tube. These go at the 4 corners, > and > > > are held by 5mm screws that thread in the Rivnuts. I now had two > plates, > > > spaced together. > > > - I made a small bush to go through the handle, to avoid > > friction > with the > > > knob thread (frankly, an overkill). > > > - I put Nylon washers on either side of the handle. > > > - I then made a spacer to fill the space between the top washer > > and > the > > > cover plate. The spacer consists of three large washers piled up > > and > glued > > > together with Epoxy. > > > - And that's it! The knob goes through the cover plate, then the > spacer, > > > then top washer, then handle plate, then bottom washer, then > > Rivnut; > when > > > you tighten it, the cover plate bends slightly, and squashes the > handle > > > between the two Nylon washers. The friction remains even, even > > after > 100 > > > push-pull actions (Yes, I tried). > > > - The rest is details: giving the hande a double bend to make it > S-shaped, > > > making wood stocks, fitting holes, and of course, the throttle cable > > > mounting hole and screw. Oh, by the way, when you make your > > spacers, > check > > > how much thickness you will need for your cable attachment, and allow > for > > > some extra clearance. > > > > > > That throttle is very simple, yet, it's still 45 parts altogether! > > > Unbelievable how fast the parts count goes up! > > > > > > Here is the datasheet. > > > > > > Throttle data > > > > > > Mass: 188 g > > > Travel: 7.9mm > > > Overall dimensions with handle at centre position: Height 151mm > Length 98mm > > > Width 50mm > > > Overall dimensions with travel: Height 151mm Length 200mm Width 50mm > > > > > > > > > Parts list > > > > > > 1. Base plate, aluminium, 2024T3, 2mm thick 1 > > > 2. Rivnut, 8mm 1 > > > 3. Rivnut, 5mm 4 > > > 4. Spacers, aluminium, 12.7mm OD, 10mm ID, L18mm 4 > > > 5. Capscrew, 5mm x 20mm 4 > > > 6. Washer, 5mm 4 > > > 7. Self tapering screw, SS, 3.5mm x 16mm 6 > > > 8. Face plate, aluminium, 2024T3, 1mm thick 1 > > > 9. Throttle handle, aluminium, 2024T3, 3mm thick 1 > > > 10. Wood stocks, seligna wood 2 > > > 11. Screw, 3mm x 21 2 > > > 12. Washer, 3mm 2 > > > 13. Locknut, 3mm 2 > > > 14. Friction adjustment screw, 8mm x 30mm 1 > > > 15. Washer, 8mm 1 > > > 16. Spacer, 8mm ID x 25mm OD x 9mm thickness 1 > > > 17. Washer, Nylon, 9mm 1 > > > 18. Bush, 8mm ID x 9mm OD x 4.2mm 1 > > > 19. Washer, Nylon, 8mm 1 > > > 20. Button head screw, 4mm x 16mm 1 > > > 21. Washer, 4mm 2 > > > 22. Locknut, 4mm 1 > > > 23. Throttle cable mounting bracket, alumiinum, 2mm thick 1 1 > > > > > > Tools list for mounting > > > > > > 1. Screwdriver, flat > > > 2. Allen key, 2.5mm > > > 3. Spanner, 7mm > > > 4. Allen key, 4mm > > > > > > Serge Vidal > > > KR2 ZS-WEC > > > Tunis, Tunisia > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > _______________________________________________ > > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 277, Issue 3 *************************************