From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net on behalf of krnet-request@mylist.net Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2004 9:42 PM To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 318, Issue 2 Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. RE: KR-2S plans (Jack Cooper) 2. Re: Sanding and lovin it (Dan Heath) 3. Re: I also learned to fly a tailwheel in my KR (cartera) 4. Dual Facet Pumps (Mark Jones) 5. Re: Dual Facet Pumps 6. Re: Dual Facet Pumps (Mark Jones) 7. Re: Dual Facet Pumps (Dan Heath) 8. Still lovin it (Dan Heath) 9. Re: Dual Facet Pumps (Mark Jones) 10. Re: Sanding and lovin it (Bob Stone) 11. bondo (it comes like a tube of tooth paste (Dan Heath) 12. Re: Dual Facet Pumps (cartera) 13. Re: Dual Facet Pumps (David Mikesell) 14. Re: Dual Facet Pumps (Mark Jones) 15. Larry's Lady reply (long) (larry flesner) 16. Re: Dual Facet Pumps (Dean Cooper) 17. Dual Facet Pumps (larry flesner) 18. Re: Dual Facet Pumps (Orma Robbins) 19. Re: Dual Facet Pumps (Orma Robbins) 20. Hardware list (Steve and Lori McGee) 21. Re: I also learned to fly a tailwheel in my KR (Martindale Family) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 15:29:01 -0500 From: "Jack Cooper" To: "kr2cooper@earthlink.net, KRnet" Subject: RE: KR>KR-2S plans Message-ID: <410-22004262120291421@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 1 I should have said make an offer off net, not off line. Email me off net if you are interested in the KR-2S plans. PS These plans were registered in April 1996 Jack cooper mailto:kr2cooper@earthlink.net > [Original Message] > From: Jack Cooper > To: KR builders and pilots > Date: 2/21/2004 2:56:57 PM > Subject: KR>KR-2S plans > > A friend just stopped by to return my GPS he had borrowed and brought with him a like new set of KR-2 plans with S supplements. The plans are clean and unlike my plans the drawings are not faded. Anyone interested, make an offer off line. > > > Jack Cooper > kr2cooper@earthlink.net > Why Wait? Move to EarthLink._______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 15:42:45 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" To: "krnet@mylist.net" Subject: Re: KR>Sanding and lovin it Message-ID: <4037C2C5.000003.03916@Computer> References: <002d01c3f8af$3a0d6ef0$6c2c4b0c@HPHome> Content-Type: Text/Plain MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 2 I am convinced that most of us will never see a perfect finish, let alone create one. I just try to get out all the pin holes and make what finish there is , smooth, so the paint will look as good as possible.=0D =0D If it were perfect, I would be afraid to fly it.=0D =0D I made my data plate on the Little Beast, on the inspection plate cover t= hat went over the inspection hole under the horiz stab. Don't know if that is= OK but I just think you have to provide the information in a place visible = on the exterior of the plane.=0D =0D See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering=0D =0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =20 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 14:36:15 -0700 From: cartera To: KRnet Subject: Re: KR>I also learned to fly a tailwheel in my KR Message-ID: <4037CF4F.1050107@cuug.ab.ca> In-Reply-To: <40374122.000012.03344@Computer> References: <000401c3f6e4$017fe080$2b64a8c0@homedesktop> <40374122.000012.03344@Computer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 3 Hello Gang, As an old peelot from a way back I was just wondering why the high speed taxi, sorry to be so dumb but what does this prove. I did about 1/2 hour of ground taxi and knew that I could handle it and felt why should I wear out my wheel bearings, my feeling I built this thing to fly and not run around on the ground like a kiddie car. Remember fly the airplane and don't let the airplane fly you. When something happens it is usually something you induced a while back, there is no magic to flying, it is good common sense. Happy Flying, Guys! Flame away, heee, heee! Adrian Dan Heath wrote: > RE: If you have a moment, please say more about this. > > > > Stephen, > > > > When I started my test flights in my KR2, I had 155 hours of mostly > C150 time spread out over 9 years. I had taken a 5 hour aerobatic > course in a Citabria, which was a blast, and I have a friend who took > me up in his Champ and tried to teach me a few things. I never > considered myself to be a "good" pilot, and still don't. I just never > thought that I would not be able to fly my KR. > > > > The Little Beast started out as a retract. That gear collapsed 3 > times, so while doing repairs for the 3rd time, I decided to convert > it to fixed gear. After that, I had little trouble with it, except > that I kept ground looping as soon as the tail touched down. A friend > determined that it was because the tail wheel spring was bent and he > gave me his tail wheel and I installed it with a new spring. > > > > Now, as long as I stayed convinced to keep the tail up, until it could > not be kept up, all my landings were safe and un-eventful. In fact, I > flew to another airport for one of my biannual check rides and the > instructor was so impressed with my landing that he offered to sign me > off right then. Too bad that I was never able to repeat it. > > > > At first, I would veer to the right, quite badly, on take off, but > after a few tries, I got over that. After a while, flying the KR > becomes almost too easy. It is almost like you only have to think > about what you want to do and the KR does it. You have to be careful > not to get complacent. > > > > I don't like high speed taxi testing, because of putting your plane in > that really critical spot, so many times, when you really don't know > what you are doing. My first mishap, with the retract gear, was > because the plane got airborne very quickly and I over reacted when I > realized what had happened. That gear would have broken eventually > anyway, but I had no idea that the KR would come off the ground at > less than 40mph. With the retract, you are really close to the ground > and I think ground effect had a lot to do with it > > > > > Now, even though I don't like high speed taxi testing, I think there > is a lot to be learned by doing it the way that Larry did. I am sure > that a lot of his success can be credited to his being so familiar > with that critical transition area. I plan to do the same when I fly > the WannaBee, but I know a lot more going in this time, than I did > then. > > > > I wish I could tell you more, but it has been almost 15 years since > that first flight. You should have been at the gathering last year, > all the pilots gave a short talk about their first flights. Maybe we > will do that again this year. > > > > Now back to sanding. > > > > See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics > > > > Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC > > > > DanRH@KR-Builder.org > > > > See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering > > > > See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org > > > > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > -- Adrian VE6AFY Mailto:cartera@cuug.ab.ca http://www.cuug.ab.ca/~cartera ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 17:16:19 -0600 From: "Mark Jones" To: "KR Net" Subject: KR>Dual Facet Pumps Message-ID: <005001c3f8d0$b6e8c520$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 4 Here is a link to the installation I did today. Under pressure, there = were no leaks. :-) http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/fuelpump.html Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA=20 E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at =20 http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 18:33:32 EST From: WA7YXF@aol.com To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>Dual Facet Pumps Message-ID: <143.223afc0c.2d6944cc@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 5 Mark your dual fuel pump set up looks really neat. I'm wondering if the Facet pump has built in check valves and if you have considered a water drain located in the low spot. I have seen water collect in such a spot and then freeze causing a stoppage and in a Cessna, split the fuel line. Lynn Hyder N37LH ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 17:48:20 -0600 From: "Mark Jones" To: "KRnet" Subject: Re: KR>Dual Facet Pumps Message-ID: <005601c3f8d5$2fcb9720$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> References: <143.223afc0c.2d6944cc@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 6 The Facets do have internal check valves and allow fuel flow through them when shut off. According to the instructions that came with the new one I got yesterday. The Facet will self prime up to 15" above the fuel line. I have test ran mine with a gas tank sitting on the floor and they work flawlessly. Right now the only drains I have are one in each tank and the gascolator. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2004 5:33 PM Subject: Re: KR>Dual Facet Pumps > Mark your dual fuel pump set up looks really neat. I'm wondering if > the Facet pump has built in check valves and if you have considered a > water drain > located in the low spot. I have seen water collect in such a spot and > then freeze > causing a stoppage and in a Cessna, split the fuel line. Lynn Hyder N37LH > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 18:59:13 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" To: "krnet@mylist.net" Subject: Re: KR>Dual Facet Pumps Message-ID: <4037F0D1.000007.03916@Computer> References: <005001c3f8d0$b6e8c520$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> Content-Type: Text/Plain MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 7 Mark,=0D =0D Very neat installation. I take it, that you found the same as Larry, that they do not need a reverse flow check valve.=0D =0D What size tubing is that? =0D =0D See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering=0D =0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =20 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 19:02:35 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" To: "krnet@mylist.net" Subject: KR>Still lovin it Message-ID: <4037F19B.00000B.03916@Computer> Content-Type: Text/Plain MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 8 Well, another 4 hours on the sanding block and still loving it. I am shoc= ked at the low pin hole count. I have really been looking for them and have found very few. If it keeps going like this, I will have it in the paint booth in two weeks. =0D =0D See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering=0D =0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =20 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 18:05:08 -0600 From: "Mark Jones" To: "KRnet" Subject: Re: KR>Dual Facet Pumps Message-ID: <006c01c3f8d7$88a3d040$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> References: <005001c3f8d0$b6e8c520$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> <4037F0D1.000007.03916@Computer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 9 Correct, they have an internal check valve which eliminates reverse flow. The tubing is sized for AN-6 fittings which is 3/8" OD x .035" wall. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Heath" To: Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2004 5:59 PM Subject: Re: KR>Dual Facet Pumps Mark, Very neat installation. I take it, that you found the same as Larry, that they do not need a reverse flow check valve. What size tubing is that? See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC DanRH@KR-Builder.org See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org _______________________________________ to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 18:05:10 -0600 From: "Bob Stone" To: "KRnet" Subject: Re: KR>Sanding and lovin it Message-ID: <001401c3f8d7$8a044aa0$ba21f218@hot.rr.com> References: <20040221.081437.-395451.0.joe.kr2s.builder@juno.com> <40375DB9.000014.03344@Computer> <002d01c3f8af$3a0d6ef0$6c2c4b0c@HPHome> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 10 Tim, You can get a perfect finish with very little trouble and NO pin holes. You are now at the stage where you need to do the following. Just get a tube of bondo (it comes like a tube of tooth paste). Use your index finger and go over the entire aircraft and wipe a finger of Bondo on each and every hole you find. Keep the tube when you are finished to use for minor repairs later. When you are finshed with this first step your aircraft will look like it has the measles. Then sand with a fine grit paper and paint. Years ago when I built a KR-2, this is what I did and the aircraft won first prize in the composit division, Chino airport, at the 1977 Fly-in and air show, Chino, California. Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx rstone4@hot.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Timothy Bellville" To: "KRnet" Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2004 1:16 PM Subject: Re: KR>Sanding and lovin it > Gee Guys, > You are making ME worry about the quality of my finish. > After two coats of smooth prime,and three of u2k, I have decided that > I will > never reach even close to a perfect finish, So I made the command > decision to declare it done, and ready for paint. Small imperfections > be damed. I want to fly this thing this spring and I don't want to add > any more wt. with > fillers. > I have a rare KR2 in the respect that it only weighs 535lbs. > empty(before finish paint). Now for a new one to chew on, is it > permisable to make your own Data plate from raw stock? > Or do you have to use an approved plate? > Thanks > TIM > KR2 N7038V > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dan Heath" > To: > Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2004 8:31 AM > Subject: Re: KR>Sanding and lovin it > > > Joe, > > My experience has been, that after the Smooth Prime, comes the real priming > and sanding. At least then, you can wet sand it. There is no way that > you will have all the pin holes out of it after smooth prime, so now > the real work begins. > > The nice thing about having that layer of Smooth Prime on there is > that, if > you put on a grey primer, you quickly know when it is time to stop sanding, > look for pin holes, fill them, prime, and start sanding all over > again. > > Ain't it fun? > > See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics > > Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC > > DanRH@KR-Builder.org > > See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering > > See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org > > > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 19:27:44 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" To: "krnet@mylist.net" Subject: KR>bondo (it comes like a tube of tooth paste Message-ID: <4037F780.00000D.03916@Computer> References: <001401c3f8d7$8a044aa0$ba21f218@hot.rr.com> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 11 Bob Stone,=0D =0D Do you mean Bondo Spot Putty? Bondo, the one for making repairs comes in= a two part, doesn't it? Or is this something else? =0D =0D Do you prime over the Bondo, or just paint?=0D =0D See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering=0D =0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =20From N56ML@hiwaay.net Sat Feb 21 17:14:00 2004 Received: from smtp.knology.net ([24.214.63.101] helo=smtp2.knology.net) by lizard.esosoft.net with smtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1AuiC0-0004Xn-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Sat, 21 Feb 2004 17:14:00 -0800 Received: (qmail 30567 invoked by uid 542); 22 Feb 2004 01:05:33 -0000 Received: from N56ML@hiwaay.net by smtp2.knology.net by uid 502 with qmail-scanner-1.20 ( Clear:RC:1(24.214.88.148):. Processed in 0.033526 secs); 22 Feb 2004 01:05:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO 800Athlon) (24.214.88.148) by smtp2.knology.net with SMTP; 22 Feb 2004 01:05:33 -0000 Message-ID: <000c01c3f8df$eb234ae0$2402a8c0@800Athlon> From: "Mark Langford" To: "KRnet" References: <001401c3f8d7$8a044aa0$ba21f218@hot.rr.com> <4037F780.00000D.03916@Computer> Subject: Re: KR>bondo (it comes like a tube of tooth paste Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 19:05:09 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KRnet List-Id: KRnet List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: That's funny, I took a picture this morning just to show you guys, at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/04022110m.jpg , which shows the tube of stuff and the "measles" Bob described. It fills 'em up, and sands very easily. Our body shop teacher said something like "don't bring none of that Bondo junk in here", and told us to get "real spot putty from the auto paint dealer", but I've been using this stuff up until now and I think it'll work just fine. It IS polyester based, which is famous for shrinking, but I can't see that something this tiny is going to shrink enough to make a difference. You have to prime over it, other wise there will be a "dry" looking spot, as it is more porous than the surrounding primer, and it will definitely show. Just throw one last coat of primer over the top of it when you're done, and then sand the last coat of primer with 400 grit, and paint it. I don't really think this is the way to fill ALL pinholes, but for the few that might get past peelply, or some other method, it seems to work great as a second line of defense. I still can't complain about Smooth Prime, as it seemed to work for me, but I suspect that some of the other primers would work just about as good, if worked in with a roller like Smooth Prime is. Even Urethane 2K is $85 a gallon, but I think it would work too, and I'd bet that it'll be more compatible with urethane based paint than the water-based SP, and it certainly won't have the water absorbtion problem that was mentioned a few weeks ago... Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL N56ML "at" hiwaay.net see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 18:21:16 -0700 From: cartera To: KRnet Subject: Re: KR>Dual Facet Pumps Message-ID: <4038040C.1050500@cuug.ab.ca> In-Reply-To: <005001c3f8d0$b6e8c520$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> References: <005001c3f8d0$b6e8c520$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 12 Way to go man, looks very professional! Mark Jones wrote: > Here is a link to the installation I did today. Under pressure, there > were no leaks. :-) http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/fuelpump.html > > > > Mark Jones (N886MJ) > Wales, WI USA > E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com > Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at > http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > -- Adrian VE6AFY Mailto:cartera@cuug.ab.ca http://www.cuug.ab.ca/~cartera ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 17:25:11 -0800 From: "David Mikesell" To: "KRnet" Subject: Re: KR>Dual Facet Pumps Message-ID: <001001c3f8e2$b77b14e0$03fea8c0@davids> References: <005001c3f8d0$b6e8c520$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> <4038040C.1050500@cuug.ab.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 13 Hey Mark, just a thought but you might want to put a check valve after each pump so in a climb there is no possibility of pumping back towards the wing tanks........just a thought. Nice job. David Mikesell 23597 N. Hwy 99 Acampo, CA 95220 209-609-8774 skyguynca@skyguynca.com www.skyguynca.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "cartera" To: "KRnet" Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2004 5:21 PM Subject: Re: KR>Dual Facet Pumps > Way to go man, looks very professional! > > Mark Jones wrote: > > Here is a link to the installation I did today. Under pressure, > > there were no leaks. :-) > > http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/fuelpump.html > > > > > > > > Mark Jones (N886MJ) > > Wales, WI USA > > E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com > > Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at > > http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html > > > > _______________________________________ > > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > > -- > Adrian VE6AFY > Mailto:cartera@cuug.ab.ca > http://www.cuug.ab.ca/~cartera > > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 19:52:19 -0600 From: "Mark Jones" To: "KR Net" , "Dean Cooper" Subject: Re: KR>Dual Facet Pumps Message-ID: <00a001c3f8e6$81d9b180$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> References: <005001c3f8d0$b6e8c520$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> <019901c3f8e2$ee8c3810$0502a8c0@office> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 14 Dean, Those are some very valid points. I do not have a header and right now I do not have fuel shut off for each individual wing tank. I have been thinking all along that I needed the option to shut off each tank to regulate flow and I do have a plan in place to install a shut off valve for each tank. The way I have it now, there is a possibility of air intruding the system from a low level tank. But....the two tanks are identical and on the exact same surface plane and have the exact low points for fuel pick up and are connected by a common fuel line which the pumps feed off of...so, theoretically both tanks should always have the same amount of fuel in them since liquid between two tanks with a common line level themselves. Thoughts???? Dean sent this to me direct but I would like the Net's input on this also. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dean Cooper" > Nice set-up. Do you have any shut off valves for each wing? What > happens if you have a fuel leak in one tank? I didn't think you had a > header tank. I'm not sure how likely that is, but thought I would ask. > Also, what happens if you have one wing's fuel level lower than the > other? Does it cause any air to get in the system? Sorry if any of > these questions have obvious answers, I just wanted to userstand the > set-up. Thanks. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 20:51:49 -0600 From: larry flesner To: KRnet Subject: KR>Larry's Lady reply (long) Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040221205149.00802490@pop.midwest.net> In-Reply-To: <000401c3f549$f6036060$c164a8c0@homedesktop> References: <3.0.6.32.20040216185221.007c4320@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 15 Steve and Netters, I'll take a few minutes and try to answer some of the questions I never got to in this earlier post. >I am trying to find the correct balance (of mods) for my venture - your >airplane seems to be in the direction that I am headed - please put me >straight on a few things. Is the 24" stretch over the 2 or 2S? +++++++ My stretch is over a standard KR2. All other dimentions are standard. >I note that you have Aerodynamic balance area on the elevator and >rudder >- did you add weight as well for static balance? Did you change the HS >in any other way? +++++ The aerodynamic tabs have weight in them. The elevator also has a weight attached inside the fuselage. I did move the elevator and horizontal stabilizer forward 2 inches in relation to the plans to give me more clearance for the elevator control horn and better streamlining. All size dimentions are the same. Moving the HS and elevator forward did give me some additional area on the vertical stabilizer which I wanted with the 0-200. >What did you do regarding the fuse width? ++++++ Standard KR2. A couple more inches of width would be nice. > >You talk of a 4" tip instead of an 8" tip - not sure what this means >but it does appear to be relevant to the performance? > ++++++++ As I recall the plans call for adding 8 inches to the end of the standard wing when building the tip. I limited my tip to 4 inches. My thinking was less wing span would hurt my climb but the 0-200 would compensate. In cruise, less span would increase my wing loading and give me a better ride and less span would mean 2 or 3 mph more speed. I have no way of knowing if any of this is true in my case as I have nothing to compare it to. >Can you say anything encouraging about your empty weight - I tried to >peek through the canopy on one of the pictures - hoping to see if the >panel reveals lots of heavy goodies. If you built another - could you >(would you) make it lighter? > +++++++++++++ The only encouraging thing I can say about my empty weight is that it still manages to fly. You don't pick up 200 extra pounds in any one spot. It's 5 pounds here, 10 pounds there, and before you know it you have a pig on your hands. My target empty weight was 700 pounds and I even blew right by that. My extra weight came from things like 30" gear legs, 600X6 wheels and brakes, 0-200 with all accessories, 5" prop extention, second small backup battery and large main battery, a Cessna flap motor to run my speed brake, fiberglass seat instead of a cloth seat, 12.5 gal fuel tank in each wing with all the plumbing and two fuel pumps, etc., etc., etc. I think you get the point. >Reason for asking Larry - I figured that 230lbs over the plans weight >of a 2S should be enough to accommodate my changes, so I targeted 750lb >empty with an 0-320 and some IF capability, possibly even a training >wheel out front. Maybe I need to learn from you that this is not a >realistic target I plan to use the 18% AS airfoil section for a deeper >(stronger) spar so we can get back to +6G at 1450lb MAUW). The right >time to consider changes to the wing area would be now. +++++++ If you plan on going with an 0-320 you probably need to look at a different airplane entirely. With that much weight and horsepower you are looking at an extensive redesign of the KR. I'd suggest you look at something like the "Vision". Check it out at: http://visionaircraft.com/ >>From your comment you are using the RAF48 - on the pics it looks like >you have flat plate tail feathers? +++++++++++ HS, elevator, VS and rudder are plans shape. >Do you feel the need for a header tank with the 0-200? > +++++++++++++ No, I have a 12.5 gal tank in each outer wing panel. >I am still worried about the under carriage configuration - I have very >little tail dragger time - 0:35 on a Tiger Moth 27 years ago - Ok I >have no tail wheel time. How much tail wheel time did you have to >start with >- what is your advice on this? >>Kind regards >Steve >Zambia - Africa ++++++++++++++++ I had 13 hours tailwheel time over a 30 year period when I started to taxi test the KR and teaching myself to fly the tailwheel. My KR has an eight foot wide main gear track and with the fuselage extention it is probably one of the best handling KR taildraggers going. If you don't want to learn to fly the tailwheel go with the nose gear. If you aren't comfortable flying the airplane you build it most certainly will turn out to be a "hangar queen". >From my 14 years exposure to the KR and having just finished building mine and with about 10 hours of air time now I would offer the following observation on what I think would make the "perfect" KR for the "average" builder. It would be a KR2S, plans built, with an engine of approx 100 hp, modest panel with one gyro instrument (artificial horizon), 20 to 25 gal of fuel, Diehl tricycle gear or equivelant, no sound proofing or upholstery, (use a noise cancelling headset) a speed brake or equivelant, with an empty weight of approx 675 pounds. Several builders have hinted at doing IFR work in a KR. With just 10 hours in the air I'd say FORGET IT. I had trouble just re-attaching my four point seat belt that popped open in flight. I can't even imagine trying to fly IFR in KR. The more I fly my KR the more I enjoy it but it is strictly a FUN machine. Expect no more than that from your KR when it's finished. I hope my rambling hasn't burst anyone's bubble but I prefer to call it like I see it and not give anyone any unrealistic expectations. I wouldn't trade my KR for a BMW. There is great satisfaction in seeing, touching, and flying something you've built from scratch. Looking around at all the detail in your KR, seeing each piece that you designed, built, and/or assembled, all flying in formation, with your body strapped to the finished product, and the landscape drifting by 5000 feet below you is something that few people get to experience. All I can say is YEE HAA........................ Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 22:14:36 -0500 From: "Dean Cooper" To: "KRnet" , "Mark Jones" Subject: Re: KR>Dual Facet Pumps Message-ID: <01ae01c3f8f2$003abf50$0502a8c0@office> References: <005001c3f8d0$b6e8c520$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> <019901c3f8e2$ee8c3810$0502a8c0@office> <00a001c3f8e6$81d9b180$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 16 Mark Wrote: >But....the two tanks are identical and on the exact same surface plane >and have the exact low points for fuel pick up and are connected by a >common fuel line which the pumps feed off of...so, theoretically both >tanks should always have the same amount of fuel in them > since liquid between two tanks with a common line level themselves. Mark, Since you are feeding directly from the wing tanks with no header, your fuel pumps will always be on (?) and therefore, I'm not sure the vacuum created by the pumps will allow the tanks to level each other. My original concern was that if you sustained a leak in one tank in flight and began to lose fuel, you should be able to see it on the fuel gauges, but then not be able to shut off the bad tank in order to safely make it back to an airport. It might be a good idea to install a valve right before the line goes through the fuselage on each side that you can stick your fingers down in between the seat and the fuselage side to switch it off in an emergency. I'm sure there is a better idea out there, this was just my initial thought... Dean Cooper Jacksonville, FL Email me at dean_cooper@bellsouth.net See my KR project at www.geocities.com/djramccoop1/KR2_Home.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 21:35:55 -0600 From: larry flesner To: KRnet Subject: KR>Dual Facet Pumps Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040221213555.007ab420@pop.midwest.net> In-Reply-To: <00a001c3f8e6$81d9b180$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> References: <005001c3f8d0$b6e8c520$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> <019901c3f8e2$ee8c3810$0502a8c0@office> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 17 I do not have a header and right now I do >not have fuel shut off for each individual wing tank. I have been >thinking all along that I needed the option to shut off each tank to >regulate flow and I do have a plan in place to install a shut off valve >for each tank. The way I have it now, there is a possibility of air >intruding the system from a low level tank. Mark Jone (N886MJ) ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Mark, I don't think you have to worry about air "intruding" the system from the low level tank. Any flight mode that "unports" the fuel pickup in one tank will also have fuel filling the crossover line and running from the high tank to the low tank. The only flight mode I can think of that will "unport" both fuel pickups at the same time is inverted flight and negative G's. I doubt that you will have extended durations of either. I have basiclly the same set up. Wing tanks only, no header, and dual fuel pumps. The only difference is I have a shutoff for each tank. With 10 hours flight time and all my taxi time my setup has not caused the engine to miss a beat. My wing tanks are long and narrow and in the outer wing panel with a 5 inch rise at the tip so even with only a gallon or two of fuel and the KR in a nose up or nose down attitude, I should have fuel at the pickup point. The only problem I can see with your system is, depending how full your tanks are, if the airplane is setting on a ramp with one wing low it could overfill the low wing tank and run fuel overboard through the vent. Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 22:37:47 -0500 From: "Orma Robbins" To: , "KRnet" Subject: Re: KR>Dual Facet Pumps Message-ID: <004e01c3f8f5$3e85fbf0$acc14944@ROBBINS1> References: <005001c3f8d0$b6e8c520$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com><019901c3f8e2$ee8c3810$0502a8c0@office> <00a001c3f8e6$81d9b180$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 18 connected by a common fuel line Mark if both tanks are connected by a common line and one wing is high as in a bank, what is to prevent the pump from sucking air from that wing and introducing it into the common line to the carb? Orma aka AviationMech 19 Years flying the KR-2 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 22:56:57 -0500 From: "Orma Robbins" To: , "KRnet" Subject: Re: KR>Dual Facet Pumps Message-ID: <005501c3f8f7$ebb760a0$acc14944@ROBBINS1> References: <005001c3f8d0$b6e8c520$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com><019901c3f8e2$ee8c3810$0502a8c0@office> <00a001c3f8e6$81d9b180$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 19 connected by a common fuel line P.S. Mark what would prevent the fuel from all running to the low wing as in a bank, and if it did would you be able to control the aircraft with one full wing and one empty wing. If I remember correctly and you are using a carb that requires pressure, You might have to add a small header to trap air and another pump to push fuel without the possibility of air. As far as I know the facet will suck and move air down the line until it can get to a clean supply of fuel. What is going to happen to the engine if it is running when one pump hits air. Especially since air will rise in the line. It it seems like it is even possible for the tank to vibrate or cavitate during take off and introduce air into one or both of the lines during the takeoff run. Perhaps this is all covered by things that I can't see in your installation picture. Orma aka AviationMech 19 Years flying the KR-2 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 22:49:58 -0600 From: "Steve and Lori McGee" To: Subject: KR>Hardware list Message-ID: <001001c3f8ff$52f6a2b0$0202a8c0@lori8v5h2xi9m3> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 20 Is there a list or info page some where noting the hardware requirements = (castellated nuts, pins, etc) on things such as push tubes, bell cranks, = cables, etc???? Steve McGee Endeavor Wi. USA Building a KR2S widened. lmcgee@maqs.net=20 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 10:06:08 +1100 From: "Martindale Family" To: "KRnet" Subject: Re: KR>I also learned to fly a tailwheel in my KR Message-ID: <000001c3f905$119f2160$75a0fea9@johnjane> References: <000401c3f6e4$017fe080$2b64a8c0@homedesktop><40374122.000012.03344@Computer> <4037CF4F.1050107@cuug.ab.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 21 I agree Adrian The instant you are happy with pedalling to counteract yaw as the tail is lifted, you should fly. It's a dangerous part of the envelope that ground effect area as both Dan and I have recently attested. An uneccessary incident there can really dent your confidence when you least need it. John The Martindale Family 29 Jane Circuit TOORMINA NSW 2452 AUSTRALIA phone: 61 2 66584767 email: johnjane@chc.net.au ----- Original Message ----- From: "cartera" To: "KRnet" Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2004 8:36 AM Subject: Re: KR>I also learned to fly a tailwheel in my KR > Hello Gang, > As an old peelot from a way back I was just wondering why the high > speed taxi, sorry to be so dumb but what does this prove. I did about > 1/2 hour of ground taxi and knew that I could handle it and felt why > should I wear out my wheel bearings, my feeling I built this thing to > fly and not run around on the ground like a kiddie car. Remember fly > the airplane and don't let the airplane fly you. When something > happens it is usually something you induced a while back, there is no > magic to flying, it is good common sense. > Happy Flying, Guys! Flame away, heee, heee! > Adrian > > Dan Heath wrote: > > RE: If you have a moment, please say more about this. > > > > > > > > Stephen, > > > > > > > > When I started my test flights in my KR2, I had 155 hours of mostly > > C150 time spread out over 9 years. I had taken a 5 hour aerobatic > > course in a Citabria, which was a blast, and I have a friend who > > took me up in his Champ > > and tried to teach me a few things. I never considered myself to be > > a "good" > > pilot, and still don't. I just never thought that I would not be > > able to fly > > my KR. > > > > > > > > The Little Beast started out as a retract. That gear collapsed 3 > > times, so > > while doing repairs for the 3rd time, I decided to convert it to > > fixed gear. > > After that, I had little trouble with it, except that I kept ground looping > > as soon as the tail touched down. A friend determined that it was because > > the tail wheel spring was bent and he gave me his tail wheel and I installed > > it with a new spring. > > > > > > > > Now, as long as I stayed convinced to keep the tail up, until it > > could not > > be kept up, all my landings were safe and un-eventful. In fact, I > > flew to > > another airport for one of my biannual check rides and the > > instructor was so > > impressed with my landing that he offered to sign me off right then. > > Too bad > > that I was never able to repeat it. > > > > > > > > At first, I would veer to the right, quite badly, on take off, but > > after a > > few tries, I got over that. After a while, flying the KR becomes > > almost too > > easy. It is almost like you only have to think about what you want > > to do and > > the KR does it. You have to be careful not to get complacent. > > > > > > > > I don't like high speed taxi testing, because of putting your plane > > in that > > really critical spot, so many times, when you really don't know what > > you are > > doing. My first mishap, with the retract gear, was because the plane > > got airborne very quickly and I over reacted when I realized what > > had happened. > > That gear would have broken eventually anyway, but I had no idea > > that the KR > > would come off the ground at less than 40mph. With the retract, you > > are really close to the ground and I think ground effect had a lot > > to do with it > > > > > > > > > > Now, even though I don't like high speed taxi testing, I think there > > is a > > lot to be learned by doing it the way that Larry did. I am sure that > > a lot > > of his success can be credited to his being so familiar with that critical > > transition area. I plan to do the same when I fly the WannaBee, but > > I know a > > lot more going in this time, than I did then. > > > > > > > > I wish I could tell you more, but it has been almost 15 years since > > that first flight. You should have been at the gathering last year, > > all the pilots gave a short talk about their first flights. Maybe > > we will do that > > again this year. > > > > > > > > Now back to sanding. > > > > > > > > See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics > > > > > > > > Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC > > > > > > > > DanRH@KR-Builder.org > > > > > > > > See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering > > > > > > > > See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________ > > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > > -- > Adrian VE6AFY > Mailto:cartera@cuug.ab.ca > http://www.cuug.ab.ca/~cartera > > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 318, Issue 2 *************************************