From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net on behalf of krnet-request@mylist.net Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2004 12:00 PM To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 322, Issue 2 Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Windmilling 2. Re: Electrical Circuits (Orma Robbins) 3. Hi-speed taiing (robert tallini) 4. RE: Any KR'er coming?? (Dana Overall) 5. fuses (larry flesner) 6. Re: taildragger - Hey mister, your tails-a-draggin' (larry severson) 7. Re: ground loops (larry severson) 8. New adhesives (Stephen Jacobs) 9. Dynel Fabric (Bob Stone) 10. Taildraggers/Trigears & flares (Colin & Bev Rainey) 11. RE: How long (Wood, Sidney M.) 12. Re: Taildraggers/Trigears & flares 13. Re: pencil rubber (Dene Collett (SA)) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 07:19:45 EST From: Veeduber@aol.com To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR> Windmilling Message-ID: <126.3b49db5e.2d6dece1@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 1 In a message dated 2/23/04 3:21:32 PM Pacific Standard Time, wayne@hispeedwireless.com writes: > Robert, how would you make this work? I assume a control rod which > actuates some type of cam on each of the exhaust valves. Could it be > adapted to other engines (CorvairCraft)? > See any Diesel with compression release. I used a pair of fingers against the edge of the valve spring retainer, actuated by a shaft. Push-rod was supported by a hair-spring of music wire. Diesels typically use a modified rocker. The Limbach converted VW used in the Fournier RF-4D used such a system, as have other conversions. I think depressing all six exhaust valves on a Corvair might take a bit more engineering. -R.S.Hoover ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 08:02:51 -0500 From: "Orma Robbins" To: "KRnet" Subject: Re: KR>Electrical Circuits Message-ID: <007e01c3fb9f$ae03ead0$acc14944@ROBBINS1> References: <000501c3fb54$51959cd0$2b89d141@ownerwam9o2stk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 2 A 100 watt landing light in a 13.5 volt system pulls a current of 7.4 amps and could use a 7.5 amp fuse or CB if you don't consider wire length. Yes Rich you are right I should have ended that example by saying "if you don't consider any other factors". There are other factors besides the size of the wire. I wanted the Net to know that there is a way of conputing some of the information, other then to guess. Orma L. Robbins Orma@aviation-mechanics.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 07:44:58 -0600 (GMT-06:00) From: robert tallini To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR>Hi-speed taiing Message-ID: <9785638.1077716698720.JavaMail.root@statler.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 3 I have read with interest the ltrs. to the Net re. the concern many pilots have in the ground handling of a tail dragger KR type. As Danny DiVito says in a current T.V. commercial, "Lies, all lies." Tail draggers are not the prop chewing wing tip destroyers they are credited with being. The practise of hi-speed taxi runs are helpful only in learning to handle the conversion of wheel landings to having all three wheels on the ground while still maintaining positive control. The KR type, or any short coupled a/c, should NOT make turns at any speed in excess of 3MPH, [normal walking speed.] Turning into an exit ramp, regardless of how much hi-speed practise you have had can be disastrous if, at a higher speed, where you are lighter on your wheels, a gust of wind on your upwind wing can ruin your day. Unless there is a cable stretched accross the runway and you have a tail hook, all landings in a KR should be wheel landings. Keeping the tail up until all flying speed is lost provides good rudder control ans visibility. In a full stall or three point landing the plane is very vulnerable. It is still light on its wheels, the rudder is partially blanked and less than effective, and in a cross-wind situation directional control is difficult. Conversely, a wheel landing, with a VERY SLIGHT flair gives maximum rudder control and forward visibility. Hold the tail up until fwd. stick is no longer effective, then bring the stick back firmly. Now you have tail wheel cotrol. At this point brakes can be used, sparingly, to maintain directional control. Anyway, that's how I do it, Bob Tallini Mark knows me as the inept pastry chef. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 08:59:12 -0500 From: "Dana Overall" To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: RE: KR>Any KR'er coming?? Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 4 BTW, this is not an RSVP event. Just was wondering if any of you guys were coming. Mark, that would be a haul by car to come from cheeseland. There are several flying in from Chicago but that's only something like 2 hours. or less. Dana Overall 1999 & 2000 National KR Gathering host Richmond, KY i39 RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" Finish kit 13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon. http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero1.jpg http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero3.jpg http://rvflying.tripod.com/blackrudder.jpg do not archive _________________________________________________________________ Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee when you click here. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 08:44:11 -0600 From: larry flesner To: KRnet Subject: KR>fuses Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040225084411.008108b0@pop.midwest.net> In-Reply-To: <006d01c3fb04$4bb63860$6501a8c0@Administration> References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 5 > An important principle of wiring is to choose the fuse size based on > the wire size. > Ron Freiberger +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Just as important is to size the wire to the load. The ankle bone's connected to the shin bone, the shin bone's connected to the knee bone........... When I accidently shorted the wing tip light base contact to the side and blew a breaker, did I protect the wire or the component. In this case, both. I repositioned the base contact when I installed a bulb, reset the breaker and everything was fine. Several factors determine the wire size needed. Expected load, length of wire run, wire inside or outside of a bundle, etc. The Tony Bingalis books gives the answers to all these questions and are a very painless way of educating yourself. How many times do I have to say it? Larry Flesner P.S. Your local EAA chapter may have a 1/2 price sale on books and tapes this spring. Perfect time to order the full set of 4. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 06:59:24 -0800 From: larry severson To: KRnet Subject: Re: KR>taildragger - Hey mister, your tails-a-draggin' Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20040225065738.0282bc08@pop-server.socal.rr.com> In-Reply-To: <403C831B.000011.03472@Computer> References: <001801c3fae9$64094940$0700a8c0@schpankme> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 6 While what you say has merit, I can tell from the above statement, that you >have never flown a KR. Good luck on 3 point landings in a KR. Les Palmer's comment about that is "the KR is prone to pitch over and broken prop if the tail wheel hits even fractionally before the mains." Seems risky to me. Larry Severson Fountain Valley, CA 92708 (714) 968-9852 larry2@socal.rr.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 07:06:08 -0800 From: larry severson To: KRnet Subject: Re: KR>ground loops Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20040225070216.027d3dd0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> In-Reply-To: References: <004c01c3fa40$6343e230$1a997018@HAROLD> <004c01c3fa40$6343e230$1a997018@HAROLD> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 7 >If you have ever driven in snow, you have probably experienced a spin out. >The car will spin around until it runs out of motion or hits something. >That is a ground loop. Larry Severson Fountain Valley, CA 92708 (714) 968-9852 larry2@socal.rr.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 17:16:33 +0200 From: "Stephen Jacobs" To: "'Ron Eason'" , "'KRnet'" Subject: KR>New adhesives Message-ID: <001801c3fbb2$668b6df0$e564a8c0@homedesktop> In-Reply-To: <007801c3fa2e$72002e80$6501a8c0@Administration> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 8 >>>>>>Henkel Loctite Corp. has introduced two highly flexible cyanoacrylate adhesives for applications that must withstand vibration. I realize that we are a ways off from using cyano as a structural adhesive in our chosen passion - my prediction is that someday we will. In the meanwhile, we can all benefit greatly from this unique adhesive in non-structural ways. As an aero modeler I have been using every brand name and species since 1978 - that is why I know that, correctly applied, they out perform most other adhesives on many materials including cured wood. Learn what they can do and save hours. I pal of mine was building a 1/3 size Sikorsky S39 flying boat - it was enormous. The fuselage is a typical boat hull. The guy was really struggling with the sheeting on the front section of this hull. Using one piece of ply it required all of his fingers on both hands to hold everything in the right place - no place for clamps - and it had to be done on both sides (in one go) for obvious reasons. He had tried several times with 10 minute epoxy - he would somehow hang on until the epoxy set (on a test piece) and then release. No bananas - the epoxy would let go peeling of a microscopic layer (almost a finger print) off the ply. By the time I arrived he was ready to burn the project. We made one more attempt using cyano (we used the thicker one). We forgot to do a test piece so he hung on for a full minute - bingo. That was 22 years ago - he has since lugged this behemoth from Johannesburg to the annual event in Las Vegas at least twice and flown it many times with a 60cc single cylinder chainsaw motor shaking every joint to the core. After seeing this he and I (and many others) used Cyano freely in all aspects of mode building including the spars and spar boxes (unless it simply did not make sense (like sheeting a big foam wing where a contact adhesive was obviously easier). Pins are no longer required, the bond is (almost) instantaneous - things happen real fast. Of particular note to netters is a Styrofoam friendly cyano. One brand call it UFO, others call it odourless. It is probably too expensive to use for big areas, but great for tacking a ply template to styrofaom or SF to SF - whatever within seconds. Keeping cabling tidy, placards in place, upholstery under control - the more you use it, the more you see possibilities. The plastic overlay on my Cherokee panel had cracks and some of the mounting holes were enlarged (broken out). The cracks were sorted out with a strip of glass tape placed over the crack (on the back) with a drop or two of the thin cyano species - 1 drop will cover a sq inch on the thinner tape - and that is it. The enlarged hole - this technique is good for a few instances where you screwed up and have an oversize hole (or a hole in the wrong place). For a thin material like plastic, temporarily put some electricians tape on the front side (over the offending hole). Sprinkle some bicarbonate of soda over the bad area (maybe 1/32 layer) and drop one or two drops of thin cyano - poof, instant skin. Keep the puff of smoke away from your eyes - does no harm, but it stings and makes them water - about like soap. Maybe build up a layer or two, or if the area is flat, add a small piece of scrap cloth - remove the tape from the front, drill a new hole and touch up the paint. The point is - you can do this as fast as explaining it. I once drilled some holes to the bolt clearance size in 3/8 hardwood before realizing that I needed to cut the thread in the wood - no room for a blind nut / anchor nut - isssssshh. I closed the bottom of the oversize hole with some tape and built up the hole - add a 1/16" layers of bicarb, drop of thin cyno, poof - repeated until the hole was full. Then drilled the hole to the correct size and tapped it 1/4-20. It was harder to tap then alli - these bolts kept the wings on my 1/4 size Stintson 108 and I still have it (12 years later). Finally (lest Mark throws his toys against the wall) I often Cyano two pieces of alli together for matched pair drilling /filing /shaping and even milling. Trick is not to do too good a job preparing the bond faces. If the surfaces are true to the extent that the two pieces have a gapless seam and you clean them with alcohol and clamp them - chances are that you will damage or distort something trying to separate them. I have heard about age, vibration etc - so far Cyano already beats the pants of anything. If the manufacturers are actually further improving Cyano - Issssshh Steve J jayquip@microlink.zm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 10:09:29 -0600 From: "Bob Stone" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: KR>Dynel Fabric Message-ID: <003201c3fbb9$bf95e860$ba21f218@hot.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 9 Netters, I think I remember reading a post where there was some interest in Dynel Fabric. I have found a source where this product is available in case anyone is interested. This was what the designer, the late Ken Rand used to cover the first two prototypes (KR-1 & KR-2) As far as I know the stuff was used by the military to make covers for radar domes both on the ground and also for aircraft. Anyone interested in knowing where to get it, e-mail me off net and I will send as an attachment the catalog page, Company name, etc. Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx rstone4@hot.rr.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 12:15:09 -0500 From: "Colin & Bev Rainey" To: "KRnet" Subject: KR>Taildraggers/Trigears & flares Message-ID: <005601c3fbc2$ec101510$99ef0843@RaineyDay> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 10 Netters, One netter posted something from a book where a statement was made when = landing, "precise speed control, and timing the flare". I agree whole = heartedly about the precise speed control. Changes in approach speed = will always mess with your landing, regardless of the aircraft. Getting = low and slow is dangerous, and coming in hot guarantees floating. The = second part I disagree with, timing of the flare. I personally do not = believe, nor do I teach that there is some magical point of the flare. = I firmly believe in the K.I.S.S. principle, and apply it in everything = that I can. To land an aircraft consistently one has to realize that = first: there are 2 parts to the actual landing, the roundout, and the = flare. An analogy of a proper roundout would be riding in a glider = go-cart down hill, which is approach on final, and then reaching the = bottom of the hill where the road then flattens out, the roundout. This = is the point where you the pilot have flown the plane into ground = effect. Because of what happens in ground effect, the reduction of = induced drag, we get a performance increase, and so all aircraft tend to = float some distance. How much depends on alot of factors, approach = speed, weight etc... It is at this point most landings are botched due = to the pilot wanting to rush into the flare, or silently try to count in = order to "time" the flare. This is where KISS comes in. There is no = big secret to when to flare. Once the roundout is complete and you are = straight and level in ground effect (angle of attack appropriate for the = speed), you then simply look at the far end of the runway, PAUSE all = inputs except what is necessary to maintain your present attitude and = position over the runway, and watch for the descent to return. In a = Tri-gear aircraft when the descent returns begin gently trying to hold = the airplane off the runway with only enough back pressure to make the = mains touchdown first, then continue back pressure until the nose = settles gently by itself. This last part is necessary to prevent the = nose wheel from slamming down. In a Taildragger when the descent = returns, you allow the aircraft to settle to the runway, and just as it = touches you apply slight forward stick pressure to make the mains stick, = or as my instructor called it, roll the plane onto the runway like = rolling on paint. Wheel landing happen at speeds close to flying speeds = so the aircraft will tend to try to bounce back up into ground effect = and fly so this slight pressure at the point of touchdown rolls the = mains on with sufficient pressure to hold the aircraft onto the runway. This should make recognizing the "flare point" much easier for = all, especially the low time pilot who is lead to believe that = proficiency here is some mystery revealed only with experience. It is a = cake walk to identify and only requires one to observe the far end of = the runway, and be PATIENT. Rushing the landing at any point only = causes problems. Taxiing is also an area where pilots are misinformed. = They are falsely lead to believe that tri-gear do not need any control = inputs during taxi, but taildraggers do. ALL aircraft need proper wind = correction inputs when taxiing. The Airplane Flying Handbook has a = great illustration showing the correct input for each wind condition. = Typically one can remember head/crosswinds, elevator neutral, ailerons = into wind. Any form of tailwind, dive and away, or opposite aileron, = and down elevator. Low wings are typically more stable on the ground = than high wings because it is harder for the wind to get under the wing, = but both are subject to the wind striking the fuselage and tail. Since = the KR conventional is standard, it will react like any taildragger. = The tri-gear being free castoring will tend to act similar to the = Grumman aircraft, which has a similar setup and will also tend to = "weathervane" into the wind. Correct inputs which are changed as you = taxi around the airport, and your orientation into the wind changes are = essential for safe taxi. Speed is governed by conditions, whatever is = appropriate for positive aircraft control. This is what the phrase = means flying the aircraft on the ground back to the ramp. Both = configurations have their own particulars and pilots need to be = proficient in ground operations in both setups, whichever setup your = aircraft has. Do not have a false sense of security that you have = dodged a bullet by having tri-gear. It also needs developed skill, just = different from the conventional. We all spend some time at one point or another just sitting in = our planes and making airplane noises and dreaming. We tend to refer to = this in jest. Once you get to the airport, perform this same sitting = and dreaming, only make it official (so you can talk about it at your = next party) and call it visualizing, and mental rehearsal. It you have = a taildragger sit in the airplane first tail down, but then raise the = tail, and sit in it in level flight attitude. This will acclimate you = to the sight picture when in level flight and more importantly give you = the correct picture in ground effect just before touchdown. Tri-gear = people can just leave it on the gear and get acquainted with the view. = Spend real quality time here "chair flying" the plane, becoming familiar = with where the controls are when you are buckled in ready to fly. = Rehearse your takeoff, climbout, and pattern all the way to touchdown = and taxi. "See" the entire first flight in your head and practice = before the engine is ever running. We do this with new pilots EVERYTIME = we move them into a new aircraft regardless of how many hours they have. = This time will be very valuable for you in to ways: 1st you will know = where everything is by feel, so only a quick glance is necessary to = confirm what you want to do, and 2nd you will find if something is not = practically located when you are buckled in and going through the = motions of actually flying, holding the stick, sitting in the correct = position etc... You want to know the 2nd before your flight not after = in the air. Hope this helps some........ Colin & Bev Rainey KR2(td) N96TA Sanford, FL crainey1@cfl.rr.com or crbrn96ta@hotmail.com http://kr-builder.org/Colin/index.htmlFrom kr2s@mtnguy.com Wed Feb 25 10:57:33 2004 Received: from sitemail3.everyone.net ([216.200.145.37] helo=omta08.mta.everyone.net) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1)id 1Aw4Dt-000NIG-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Wed, 25 Feb 2004 10:57:33 -0800 Received: from sitemail.everyone.net (bigip1-snat [216.200.145.29]) by omta08.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF3EC5C060 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 2004 10:48:32 -0800 (PST) Received: by sitemail.everyone.net (Postfix, from userid 99) id C76413978; Wed, 25 Feb 2004 10:48:31 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 10:48:31 -0800 (PST) From: Dennis Dyer To: KRnet X-Originating-Ip: [208.157.46.188] X-Eon-Sig: AQGn0wZAPO3/AAG9YwEAAAAB,ad6ba1d7c7720a2271d083dd9137001e Message-Id: <20040225184831.C76413978@sitemail.everyone.net> Subject: KR>How long X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: kr2s@mtnguy.com, KRnet List-Id: KRnet List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: Hi Netters, I was recently asked how long it would take to build a KR..I said I'd post on the KR Net to get an idea of the average builders hours. Can you help me answer this question? Thanks, Dennis Dyer 13035 US Hwy 285 Pine, CO 80470 _____________________________________________________________ Get your free e-mail address http://www.mtnguy.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 14:06:02 -0500 From: "Wood, Sidney M." To: , "KRnet" Subject: RE: KR>How long Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 11 I have 1864 hours direct labor spread over 18 years and am 60 to 70 = percent done. Sid Wood, KR-2 N6242 Mechanicsville, MD sidney.wood@titan.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces+smwood=3Dtitan.com@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces+smwood=3Dtitan.com@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Dennis Dyer Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2004 1:49 PM To: KRnet Subject: KR>How long Hi Netters, I was recently asked how long it would take to build a KR..I said I'd = post on the KR Net to get an idea of the average builders hours. Can you = help me answer this question? Thanks, Dennis Dyer 13035 US Hwy 285 Pine, CO 80470 _____________________________________________________________ Get your free e-mail address http://www.mtnguy.com _______________________________________ to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 14:17:29 EST From: Aeroeng39@aol.com To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>Taildraggers/Trigears & flares Message-ID: <1aa.207018a3.2d6e4ec9@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 12 Great information. This is the kind of stuff I like to read from KRnet. Thanks, Peter Sanchez Apache Jct. AZ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 21:38:43 +0200 From: "Dene Collett \(SA\)" To: "KRnet" Subject: Re: KR>pencil rubber Message-ID: <000b01c3fbd7$29fd1c60$37e5fea9@telkomsa127179> References: <3.0.6.32.20040222184739.007c6100@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 13 Hi Larry Thanks for the reply, I decided to just give the ply a good rubbing with some sand paper to clean any residue of rubber off. As you said, if it left anything behind, it would be on the surface only. I tend to let little things bother me when I run out of money to buy materials and am looking for something to do with the materials I have at hand. Things are looking up though, give me another two years or so and I should have a flying airplane! Thanks again. Dene Collett KR2S-RT builder Port Elizabeth South Africa mailto: dene.collett@telkomsa.net P.S: checkout www.whisperaircraft.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "larry flesner" To: "KRnet" Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 2:47 AM Subject: Re: KR>pencil rubber could > you turn the ply over and glue on the opposite side and put the > "erased" side on the exterior? > > Larry Flesner > > > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 322, Issue 2 *************************************