From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net To: John Bouyea Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 147 Date: 4/13/2005 7:43:31 PM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. RE: Mechanical (Golden, Kevin) 2. Cost Comparison (Orma) 3. R?f. : KR> Cost Comparison (Serge VIDAL) 4. heavy engines (Mark Langford) 5. Re: Fuel injection in planes./ EFI VW (Mark L) (William Jeffries) 6. RE: heavy engines (Doug Rupert) 7. Re: Fuel injection in planes./ EFI VW (Mark L) (Ron Eason) 8. (no subject) (patrusso) 9. Re: Fuel injection in planes./ EFI VW (Mark L) (Mark Langford) 10. RE: Cost Comparison (Doug Rupert) 11. RE: R?f. : KR> Cost Comparison (Doug Rupert) 12. Re: heavy engines (Al Friesen) 13. RE: Fuel injection in planes./ EFI VW (Mark L) (Doug Rupert) 14. Les Palmer (ronevogt@cox.net) 15. Re: (no subject) (Orma) 16. RE: VW 20 degree (Doug Rupert) 17. Re: heavy engines (larry flesner) 18. Re: heavy engines (Mark Langford) 19. Re: Fuel injection in planes./ EFI VW (Mark L) (Frank Tomko) 20. Re: heavy engines (jscott.pilot@juno.com) 21. Re: VW 20 degree (jscott.pilot@juno.com) 22. RE: heavy engines (Doug Rupert) 23. Re: heavy engines (Mark Jones) 24. Re: Flight test summary and checklists (raybeth123@sbcglobal.net) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 06:42:46 -0400 From: "Golden, Kevin" Subject: RE: KR> Mechanical To: 'KRnet' Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain VW fuel injection is a bad thing. I would look harder at the GM/Ford components. Maybe something jap would be a good thing too. I love German cars, but that fuel injection is nuts. Kevin. -----Original Message----- From: Doug Rupert [mailto:drupert@sympatico.ca] Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 8:08 PM To: 'KRnet' Subject: RE: KR> Mechanical I know what you mean there. Off the shelf items are off the planet price wise. One could theoretically use the injection system off a V-6 Chevy on the Corvair and reprogram it with one of those aftermarket black boxes.. but that is theory, practice might be something else altogether. I think William would be the one to ask regarding the feasibility with the Corvair. However VW has manufactured and used fuel injection on their air-cooled engines for years so getting one from a junk yard is not impossible. The wiring and program diagrams are posted on the net and if anyone wants them just ask and I'll ship them off channel. Doug -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net] On Behalf Of Colin & Bev Rainey Have you priced a mechanical up to date fuel injection system from say a IO-360 lately? I can build a whole carbureted Corvair for the cost of the injection system alone. Point is not that it isn't available or good. It is whether for the money does it meet the builders needs or is it affordable vs. old reliable carb and gravity feed for these builders. Colin & Beverly Rainey -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.7 - Release Date: 4/12/2005 *The information contained in this message may be confidential and/or subject to legal privilege, and is for the use of the intended addressee only. Any unauthorized use, dissemination or copying of the information in this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this message.* ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 06:59:49 -0400 From: "Orma" Subject: KR> Cost Comparison To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <008401c54017$ea447e70$0202a8c0@ROBBINS1> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250"; reply-type=original "unless I fall over a Type 4 cheap." Doug Rupert) As most of you know last year I replaced my type 4 after 20 years. I talked to Mark L and visited WW's site and added the numbers up to see if I could afford or even if I should switch to the corsair. The VW won the argument for me just because a new VW would be a bolt on and fly proposition. A lot of parts were reused from the original engine. With the corvair I would have had to change things like mount, charging system, baffeling, cowling changes, prop etc, etc. If I had no other engine, just starting out, the cost would probably be close enough to go either way. I considered the reengineering for the turbo to be minor compared to all the mods required to my flyable plane to convert it to accept the corvair. As for the choice for an ignition system, I've had discussions with others, Ron Eason in particular about full blown EFI systems. I feel that they can be adapted to the VW or corvair. But, like Mark L and others have stated in many different ways, If your reason for building the KR is to have a plane to fly, you have to stop building and changing the thing and get it into the air. I can guarantee you that once it fly's you won't want to change many more things that keep you from getting that Yeeeee Haaaaa feeling. Orma Southfield, MI N110LR Tweety, old enough to drink this year Flying and more flying, to the gathering or bust http://www.kr-2.aviation-mechanics.com/ ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 13:54:32 +0200 From: Serge VIDAL Subject: R?f. : KR> Cost Comparison To: KRnet Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" In the VW family, the Type 4 is in a different class atogether. I have a nice "how to rebuild your VW aircooled engine" book. About anytime the author states a known imperfection of the VW aircooled, he adds: "Of course, this does not apply to the Type 4". As I understand it, the Type 4 involved a major redesign of the Type 3. The aluminum alloy is much less brittle, hence less cracks. The channels, intakes, outakes, etc. have been optimized. And last but not least, it was designed right from the start as a 2 liter engine, making capacity increases easier and safer. Some refer to it as "the bullet-proof VW engine". If you have a Type 4, Orma, no wonder you are happy with it. I, too, changed a Type 4 for another Type 4, by the way. Alas, the Type 4 has been produced in much smaller quantities than the Types, 1, 2 and 3, and may prove hard to find! Which engine you should choose depends on your own circumstances: what you can find locally, what you are comfortable with working at, your budget, your performance expectations... I would not say that a Type 4 is better or worse than a Corvair, or a Subaru, or whatever, because well, it really depends on what matters for you. Here in France, it would be easier for me to get my hands on, say, a Porsche 6 cylinder (basically the 6 cylinder version of the Type 4) than on a Corvair (car was never imported), let alone a Subaru. And considering the fuel cost ($ 5.75 per gallon!), I would be better inspired to experiment on turbo-diesels anyway! My point is: - Choosing an engine is something as personal as choosing your wife - If you go VW, try to get a Type 4 - If not, stick to what you can afford/build/maintain comfortably. Serge Vidal KR2 "Kilimanjaro Cloud" (2.4 liter Type 4, dual electronic ignition) Paris, France "unless I fall over a Type 4 cheap." Doug Rupert) As most of you know last year I replaced my type 4 after 20 years. I talked to Mark L and visited WW's site and added the numbers up to see if I could afford or even if I should switch to the corsair. The VW won the argument for me just because a new VW would be a bolt on and fly proposition. A lot of parts were reused from the original engine. With the corvair I would have had to change things like mount, charging system, baffeling, cowling changes, prop etc, etc. If I had no other engine, just starting out, the cost would probably be close enough to go either way. I considered the reengineering for the turbo to be minor compared to all the mods required to my flyable plane to convert it to accept the corvair. As for the choice for an ignition system, I've had discussions with others, Ron Eason in particular about full blown EFI systems. I feel that they can be adapted to the VW or corvair. But, like Mark L and others have stated in many different ways, If your reason for building the KR is to have a plane to fly, you have to stop building and changing the thing and get it into the air. I can guarantee you that once it fly's you won't want to change many more things that keep you from getting that Yeeeee Haaaaa feeling. Orma Southfield, MI N110LR Tweety, old enough to drink this year Flying and more flying, to the gathering or bust http://www.kr-2.aviation-mechanics.com/ _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 06:54:57 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: KR> heavy engines To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <039901c5401f$9f630e00$5e0ca58c@net.tbe.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Somebody mentioned that changing to a Corvair on a KR2 would involve firewall reinforcements. I'm wondering how many folks have an 0-200 or other heavy engine on their stock KR2 firewall that has NOT been reinforced. I'll bet there are several, if not many heavy engines (0-200 and Vair weigh about the same) flying on standard KR2 firewalls that are doing just fine. Can anybody corroborate my assumption? Jeff, Larry, anybody? I've come to the conclusion that the Corvair weighs about 40 pounds more than a Type 1 VW, and about 25 pounds more than a Type 4. That's not a huge difference, particularly if the engine mount ties closer to the longerons for a better load path. Getting fired up about SNF. See y'all at the dinner, hopefully... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 06:56:20 -0700 (PDT) From: William Jeffries Subject: Re: KR> Fuel injection in planes./ EFI VW (Mark L) To: KRnet Message-ID: <20050413135620.45397.qmail@web90109.mail.scd.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mark, I went to this website and seen the aluminum cylinders for the corvair. Have you done any research on these and what would be your thoughts on this. Bill Jeffries > He even has a PSRU for your Corvair Engine. > > > http://www.vw-engines.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 10:36:47 -0400 From: "Doug Rupert" Subject: RE: KR> heavy engines To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <001301c54036$3a10d340$af3cd0d8@office> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Mark I fail to see where that 40 pounds will make much difference in the firewall area since the mount you have is six point (2 extra thru underside of boat) unless very high G maneuvers are a common occurrence. What if anything have the "Sube" guys been doing to their firewalls to accommodate all that extra weight they are carrying around? Since most builders have placed foam insulation on the inside between stringers for sound deadening it would be a simple matter to place a layer of glass over that to make the whole front end one composite sandwich. A layer of Kevlar would be even better for it's increased tensile strength as well as exceptional vibration deadening qualities. My opinion only. Doug -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.7 - Release Date: 4/12/2005 ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 07:52:31 -0700 From: "Ron Eason" Subject: Re: KR> Fuel injection in planes./ EFI VW (Mark L) To: KRnet Message-ID: <200504130752.AA102957462@jrl-engineering.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Go to www.lnengineering.com for another local American resource. It's where I brought mine. Ronald R. Eason Sr. Pres. & CEO, KCMO Office J.R.L. Engineering Consortium Ltd. ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: William Jeffries Reply-To: KRnet Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 06:56:20 -0700 (PDT) Mark, I went to this website and seen the aluminum cylinders for the corvair. Have you done any research on these and what would be your thoughts on this. Bill Jeffries > He even has a PSRU for your Corvair Engine. > > > http://www.vw-engines.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 12:37:38 -0400 From: "patrusso" Subject: KR> (no subject) To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <002501c54047$1b2e6c10$4aa772d8@patrusso> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" To those in the know, bought a 1835 type three, on the net to put into my plane while I rebuild and modify my type 4. Problem is: the engine came with a super case that has no markings on. It is similar to the Diehl case but lighter. The alternator is missing the rectifier,...where do I identify what type it is and buy a replacement. Another problem is that my Diehl starter wont fit on it as the mounting holes are different. On the Diehl case the holes are 4.5" on center while on this case the mounting hole are 3.5" on center. Anyone know where these starters are sold? Pat Russo ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 12:44:02 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> Fuel injection in planes./ EFI VW (Mark L) To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <03b601c54050$61a43540$5e0ca58c@net.tbe.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Bill Jeffries wrote: > I went to this website and seen the aluminum cylinders > for the corvair. Have you done any research on these > and what would be your thoughts on this. If I remember correctly, the price was astronomical, and I'm not so sure about reliability. I'd want a bunch of other folks to fly them first and prove they work before I sank that kind of money into them to save a few pounds of weight....but that's just my opinion at this point... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 13:47:43 -0400 From: "Doug Rupert" Subject: RE: KR> Cost Comparison To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <000001c54050$e6b8cfc0$ab3cd0d8@office> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Point well taken Orma. The problem I had with this project however was that it was built with the Subaru engine as powerplant of choice and this doesn't turn my crank (no pun intended) at all. Too much weight and complicated piping for horsepower output. Want to stay with direct drive and although the O-200 is a viable option, parts could tend to get pricey. The decision was eventually narrowed to the Type 4 or the Corvair as my weapons of choice. The dune buggy and sand rail crowd in California has insured that we will have an almost unlimited supply of new parts for many years to come and they continue to explore more and better ways of extracting more torque & horsepower as well as increasing the longevity of these engines. Some of their changes are totally irrelevant to our intended use but some are right up our alley as an example of what I'm talking about check out Dick Landy's web site as he's developed a supercharger setup for VDub usage that increases torque by 40% down in the lower RPM range right where we need it. There's also an outfit out of Georgia that builds Type 4's for racing applications and they have one model that produces over 160 ft lbs of torque at 2800 rpm and backed up by dyno reports. Now that type of engine sounds perfect for the KR bunch. With guys like these working on VW's and William Wynne working on Corvairs I think the only question now is which of the two would you rather have? Diesel may come into its own further into the future and turbines are too damn costly to run and maintain. For me? Well which ever engine I run across first will get the nod now that I have gotten the boat back to where it needed to be in the firewall area. Now I can get back to work on the wings. Doug -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.7 - Release Date: 4/12/2005 ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 13:47:43 -0400 From: "Doug Rupert" Subject: RE: R?f. : KR> Cost Comparison To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <000601c54050$e8d742f0$ab3cd0d8@office> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I would be really interested in some weight and torque figures on the VDub diesel but have been frustrated in the search thus far. As to Type 4 parts availability I have found at least one source here in North America that markets a brand new aluminum case that even has a nifty dry sump option of all things that would lend itself rather nicely for aerobatic usage. Doug Rupert -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.7 - Release Date: 4/12/2005 ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 10:55:41 -0800 From: "Al Friesen" Subject: Re: KR> heavy engines To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <003701c5405a$63c2c3f0$8bf451cf@alk1e9f7i3pcg3> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250"; reply-type=original Has there ever been a firewall separation issue with any KR out there? Al ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Rupert" To: "'KRnet'" Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 6:36 AM Subject: RE: KR> heavy engines > Mark I fail to see where that 40 pounds will make much difference in > the firewall area since the mount you have is six point (2 extra thru > underside of boat) unless very high G maneuvers are a common > occurrence. What if anything have the "Sube" guys been doing to their > firewalls to accommodate all that extra weight they are carrying > around? Since most builders have placed foam insulation on the inside > between stringers for sound deadening it would be a simple matter to > place a layer of glass over that to make the > whole front end one composite sandwich. A layer of Kevlar would be even > better for it's increased tensile strength as well as exceptional > vibration > deadening qualities. My opinion only. > Doug > > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.7 - Release Date: 4/12/2005 > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.8 - Release Date: 4/13/2005 ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 14:02:57 -0400 From: "Doug Rupert" Subject: RE: KR> Fuel injection in planes./ EFI VW (Mark L) To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <001201c54053$0810d030$ab3cd0d8@office> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Mark the aluminum is nice but look at the manufacturing bit. Machined from billet and 10 fins per inch verses standard 6 for increased cooling. Also no cast iron insert since the heat transfer between the different metals does in fact impede proper cooling. Their inside coating is a refinement of that used by Maule for years. To get a better picture of the full story you have to check out the pistons as well as pins. The combination has one hell of a price tag BUT it has been a proven system with the drag racing crowd in engines developing much more horsepower than we will even see. The only real reason I can think of for justifying such cost would be for those contemplating turbo or supercharging as well as a completely bulletproof top end. My opinion only and since I'm operating on a VERY strict budget they are completely off the radar here. Doug -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.7 - Release Date: 4/12/2005 ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 14:51:11 -0400 From: Subject: KR> Les Palmer To: Message-ID: <20050413185113.PEJO13104.fed1rmmtao07.cox.net@smtp.west.cox.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Netters; I talked to Les again today. He relayed to me that he really enjoyed the phone calls he got yesterday. Again, I encourage anyone interested in KRs to give him a call. (972) 241-4387. RV ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 17:18:22 -0400 From: "Orma" Subject: Re: KR> (no subject) To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <00f801c5406e$533ca230$0202a8c0@ROBBINS1> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Pat Call and talk to Dan Diehl, it might be an earlier version of his case. It seems that some time back, he improved the case to accept a better starter. Orma ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 17:31:05 -0400 From: "Doug Rupert" Subject: RE: KR> VW 20 degree To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <002e01c54070$19f83960$ab3cd0d8@office> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Already do. I believe it's called Fadec on Lycoming engines but could be wrong. Best check with one of the A&P's re this one. Doug Rupert How long will it be before we accept computer driven fuel injection in airplanes? Kevin. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.7 - Release Date: 4/12/2005 ------------------------------ Message: 17 Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 16:59:12 -0500 From: larry flesner Subject: Re: KR> heavy engines To: KRnet Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20050413165912.00888ac0@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 06:54 AM 4/13/05 -0500, you wrote: >Somebody mentioned that changing to a Corvair on a KR2 would involve >firewall reinforcements. I'm wondering how many folks have an 0-200 or >other heavy engine on their stock KR2 firewall that has NOT been reinforced. >I'll bet there are several, if not many heavy engines (0-200 and Vair weigh >about the same) flying on standard KR2 firewalls that are doing just fine. >Can anybody corroborate my assumption? Jeff, Larry, anybody? ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ I recall talking to Jeanette Rand at one of the Gatherings and she stated that she had an engineer do a study on the firewall. He stated it should be good for 21 G's. I don't know if Marty Roberts did anything over the stock firewall on his as his KR started life with a VW. I did reinforce my firewall a bit as I knew I was going with an 0-200. When I got my "boat" I didn't like the firewall construction (it didn't have the 1/4" ply on it yet) so I removed everything back to the 3/32" ply and started over. I had a piece of 3/4"X 3 1/2" spruce so that's what I used on the top and bottom cross pieces. I added a few extra spruce gussetts to give more glue area at the sidewalls. I also did a two bid wrap of the firewall and overlapped to the side after the 1/4" ply was glued on. Most of this was probably unnecessary and helped to contribute to my 765 pound empty weight. According to my calculator, at 21G's with a 200 pound VW, the firewall should still be good for nearly 17 G's with my 250 pound 0-200. I'm using a HAPI VW mount so the engine placement is the same. I think the Rand 0-200 mount moves the engine forward 2 to 4 inches. Jeff Scott would have better info on that as that's the route he went. Marty's KR used the HAPI VW mount also. The only instance of firewall sepratation I've ever read about was on a KR1 that caught wake turblance on takeoff and was slamed back to the runway. The firewall seprated and ruptered the fuel tank and the pilot ended up with "gallons" of fuel in his lap. There was no fire so he's lucky to be alive. That's one of the reasons that all my fuel is in my outboard wing panels. Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Message: 18 Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 17:11:40 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> heavy engines To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <042801c54075$c501ada0$5e0ca58c@net.tbe.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250"; reply-type=original Al Friesen wrote: > Has there ever been a firewall separation issue with any KR out there? Al That was my point. If it's worked for 20 or 30 other guys, then it'll work for others. I was just looking for verification from some of the 20 or 30 guys who've done this before. Larry, the engineer you mentioned was Bob Marcy (RR's structural guy), but he was talking about the KR2S firewall, not the KR2 firewall, at least when I heard him say that at Oshkosh one year. Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net ------------------------------ Message: 19 Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 15:26:00 -0700 From: "Frank Tomko" Subject: Re: KR> Fuel injection in planes./ EFI VW (Mark L) To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <008c01c54077$c56650f0$e628d742@Temp> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250"; reply-type=original Hello they are in great shape and later on if needed they are the rebuildable type. price is $450.00 for the both of them. Frank Tomko ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Rupert" To: "'KRnet'" Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 11:02 AM Subject: RE: KR> Fuel injection in planes./ EFI VW (Mark L) Mark the aluminum is nice but look at the manufacturing bit. Machined from billet and 10 fins per inch verses standard 6 for increased cooling. Also no cast iron insert since the heat transfer between the different metals does in fact impede proper cooling. Their inside coating is a refinement of that used by Maule for years. To get a better picture of the full story you have to check out the pistons as well as pins. The combination has one hell of a price tag BUT it has been a proven system with the drag racing crowd in engines developing much more horsepower than we will even see. The only real reason I can think of for justifying such cost would be for those contemplating turbo or supercharging as well as a completely bulletproof top end. My opinion only and since I'm operating on a VERY strict budget they are completely off the radar here. Doug -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.7 - Release Date: 4/12/2005 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 20 Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 18:53:28 -0600 From: jscott.pilot@juno.com Subject: Re: KR> heavy engines To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20050413.185329.1944.0.jscott.pilot@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1250 On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 17:11:40 -0500 "Mark Langford" writes: > Al Friesen wrote: > > > Has there ever been a firewall separation issue with any KR out > there? Al > > That was my point. If it's worked for 20 or 30 other guys, then > it'll work > for others. I was just looking for verification from some of the 20 > or 30 > guys who've done this before. > > Larry, the engineer you mentioned was Bob Marcy (RR's structural > guy), but > he was talking about the KR2S firewall, not the KR2 firewall, at > least when > I heard him say that at Oshkosh one year. I've never heard of an in flight failure, but have seen a tri-gear KR-2 tear the firewall out of the airframe on a hard landing. Definately not 21 gs, but then the nose gear can put a lot of torque on the firewall and is literally trying to pull the bottom out of the firewall on landing, as opposed to the engine pulling forward and down on the firewall. Also, if you look at the photos of Gene Byrd's crash http://www.jackandsandycooper.com/byrdcrash.html, you'll note that the engine and firewall are laying on the ground out in front of the airframe. Of course after a similar incident with a Bonanza, the engine was laying about 25 feet out in front of it, although it didn't take the firewall with it. FWIW, I have an aluminum angle cross brace behind the firewall attached to the shelf and a small amount of extra shear webbing added into the firewall support truss, but it is fairly minimal. -Jeff ------------------------------ Message: 21 Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 19:03:26 -0600 From: jscott.pilot@juno.com Subject: Re: KR> VW 20 degree To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20050413.190326.1944.1.jscott.pilot@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1250 FADEC = Full Authority Digital Engine Control. It's out there. The Cirrus SR series as well as some other new planes have it. It can be retrofited to some planes depending on how quickly it appears on the Type Certificates or developers are willing to tackle the years of paperwork and testing to satisfy the FAA for a Suplemental Type Certificate. My observation is that it appears to work well in flight and is well liked by the owners, but may be a bit immature for adverse conditions. I've watched several Cirrus run themselves out of batteries trying to start in moderately cool weather. Of course spending $15 - 20K to upgrade my two $20K airplanes just doesn't make financial sense. I'd spend that $$ buying another hanger and another plane instead. -Jeff On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 17:31:05 -0400 "Doug Rupert" writes: > Already do. I believe it's called Fadec on Lycoming engines but could be > wrong. Best check with one of the A&P's re this one. > Doug Rupert > > How long will it be before we accept computer driven fuel injection > in > airplanes? > > Kevin. ------------------------------ Message: 22 Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 22:06:56 -0400 From: "Doug Rupert" Subject: RE: KR> heavy engines To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <005d01c54096$a7719cc0$ab3cd0d8@office> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" If you look at the Corvair mount designed my William Wynne and our very own Mark Langford, that issue has been addressed for the tri-gear mount. Doug but have seen a tri-gear KR-2 tear the firewall out of the airframe on a hard landing. -Jeff -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.7 - Release Date: 4/12/2005 ------------------------------ Message: 23 Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 21:17:51 -0500 From: "Mark Jones" Subject: Re: KR> heavy engines To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <007001c54098$2dcf63a0$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" What was incorporated into the Corvair mount design that the original VW mount design did not have? I originally owned a VW mount and nose gear and am now flying behind a Corvair mount with nose gear and see no major differences. Mark Jones (N886MJ...FIRST FLIGHT made 3-20-2005) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Rupert" To: "'KRnet'" Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 9:06 PM Subject: RE: KR> heavy engines > If you look at the Corvair mount designed my William Wynne and our very own > Mark Langford, that issue has been addressed for the tri-gear mount. > Doug > > but have seen a tri-gear KR-2 > tear the firewall out of the airframe on a hard landing. > > -Jeff > > > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.7 - Release Date: 4/12/2005 > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 24 Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 21:42:54 -0500 From: Subject: Re: KR> Flight test summary and checklists To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <009501c5409b$a9344210$11489445@DELL> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original ----- Original Message ----- From: "Colin & Bev Rainey" To: "KRnet" Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 5:22 AM Subject: KR> Flight test summary and checklists >I have not posted them to my site, not that Dan would not put them there, >but just didn't think to, but I have a normal checklist, and an emergency >checklist that I put together for my KR2 from a Cessna 152 set and just >omitted or added as necessary for my KR. > I also have a flight test summary report that I put together for > presentation to the DAR when he was inspecting the plane, so that he would > have an idea how I intended to flight test the plane. I would be glad to > share them with anyone who asks off line and I will forward copies so Dan > can add links to them on the site. > > Colin & Beverly Rainey > Apex Lending, Inc. > 407-323-6960 (p) > 407-557-3260 (f) > www.eloan2004cr.com > crainey@apexlending.com > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 147 *************************************** ================================== ABC Amber Outlook Converter v4.20 Trial version ==================================