From: krnet-bounces+johnbou=speakeasy.net@mylist.net To: John Bouyea Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 162 Date: 4/25/2005 9:00:21 PM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: wing ridgidity (Dene Collett (SA)) 2. RE: Specs etc... (Mark Jones) 3. Re: Corvair oil level (Mark Langford) 4. Re: Specs (kwiese) 5. RE: wing ridgidity (Brian Kraut) 6. Re: pumps and sumps (Mark Langford) 7. Re: pumps and sumps (robert glidden) 8. RE: was Posa, now Revflow (Brian Kraut) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 21:34:14 +0200 From: "Dene Collett (SA)" Subject: Re: KR> wing ridgidity To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <005801c549cd$e88ff900$ea9eef9b@DeneCollett> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Kevin My system is a tri gear arrangement and therefore it retracts between the spars and the pivot is 71mm up from the bottom of the main spar and 22mm in from the end of the main centre spar. Regards Dene Collett South Africa KR2SRT builder mailto: dene.collett@telkomsa.net www.whisperaircraft.co.za ----- Original Message ----- From: Golden, Kevin To: 'KRnet' Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 15:24 Subject: RE: KR> wing ridgidity > Is anyone building a KR landing gear to be more like the Wittman gear? > I would like to build the gear to come off of the motor mount like the > RV's, Tailwind, T18, etc, but with a bit of a mixture of gear like the > Titan Tornado has. In other words, with Wittman gear, but instead of > tapered steel gear legs, they would be fiberglass rods. This is for > the KR1. Now the load is on the firewall. > > Kevin. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Martindale Family [mailto:johnjanet@optusnet.com.au] > Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 7:13 PM > To: KRnet > Subject: Re: KR> wing ridgidity > > Hi Dean > > That sounds like a neat way to do it. > > My question is how do you get the wheels to finish up forward of the > main spar (assuming a tail dragger) after extension from wells located > between the spars? Do you somehow have the main tube running at an > angle between the > spars? > > Also, how far out is your pivot from the fuselage? I guess that having > it at > the ends of the stubs would allow the longest gear legs but then more > stub distance and leg length would promote more twist between the > spars which seems to be your concern. I think some uni-directional or > carbon fibre strap, especially across the bottom of the wing between > the pivot brackets wouldn't be a bad thing but I've no engineering > analysis to support that. > > >From vague memory, my TC has his gear legs hanging off an extension > >of the > tube you mention that goes through the centre of the main and stops in > the wing nose. His gear then folds up into the leading edge wing root > fillet which is enlarged to allow it, that is, his legs and wheels all > tuck away forward of the spar. > > I prefer your arrangement Dean but it would mean no stub fuel > tanks...hmmm > > John > > The Martindale Family > 29 Jane Circuit > TOORMINA NSW 2452 > AUSTRALIA > > phone: 61 2 66584767 > email: johnjanet@optusnet.com.au > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dene Collett (SA)" > To: "KRnet" > Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 6:27 AM > Subject: KR> wing ridgidity > > > > Since my retract gear is attached to a tube running between the > > front and > rear spars that locates in a self aligning bearing/bush at each end > much like the head of a rod end bearing which is attached by the WAF > bolts to the > spars, my question is: How ridgid is the wing with regard to the > distance between the two spars once the skin is laid up (Mark L style > skins)? > > For those that have seen the lancair 360 gear, mine is very similar where > it attaches to the wing spars which means that if the spars move > approx 1/2" > further apart, the gear will become "unplugged". My stubs are not yet > skinned and the rear spar is able to move forward and back with very little > effort. How much force would it take to cause the wing to "stretch" > once skinned and attached to the outer wing? > > I suppose I could put a wrap of uni-directional tape around the wing > > in > the area of the WAF's?? > > Regards > > Dene Collett > > South Africa > > KR2SRT builder > > mailto: dene.collett@telkomsa.net > > www.whisperaircraft.co.za _______________________________________ > > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html *The > information contained in this message may be confidential and/or subject to legal privilege, and is for the use of the intended addressee only. Any unauthorized use, dissemination or copying of the information in this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this message.* > > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 14:35:24 -0500 From: "Mark Jones" Subject: RE: KR> Specs etc... To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <26D1C67793459F43BF8DA235F92B1F3549DA1E@tulsaexchange.tulsaokmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >Behalf Of Colin & Bev Rainey >Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 2:14 PM >To: KRnet >Subject: KR> Specs etc... >"Mark Jones' post shows the breakdown of the design of the oil he is >using, and a review of the chart shows that his 15W40 has the ability >to handle -33F temps, the 10W30 will go down to -40F. This looks like a >very good "designer" oil for use since it covers a very broad range of >oil temps and use, and does include that it is designed for both >gasoline and diesel engines. The detergents in it for use with diesel >engines should also help with the lead of 100LL that it will be exposed >to also. Thanks again Mark. This will be my oil of choice as well >after break-in". Colin, I have always read your post very thoroughly and have always respected your opinion. Thanks for looking at my oil spec sheet. I find it comforting you stated you will also use this oil. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 16:58:49 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> Corvair oil level To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <016901c549e1$f6989070$1202a8c0@1700xp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" When level, my Corvair dipstick tube extends 9.875" above the boss, and the oil level is 11.5" from the top of the tube, so the oil level is 1.625" below the top of the boss when the oil level is lower than the bottom of the lifter bores. This translates to almost exactly the center of the band between "full" and "add" on the factory diptick. I think there may be more than one length dipstick out there though, so use the 1.625" number to be sure. Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net -------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 18:12:59 -0600 From: kwiese Subject: Re: KR> Specs To: KRnet Message-ID: <426D878B.5090804@alltel.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed With all this good discussion on oil pumps and pressure, please consider that insuffecient oil pan volume increases oil temps, increased pressures increase oil temps because they are forced through and don't spend enough time in the pan to cool. Also consider increased pressure will "wash out" your weekest bearing faster and faster as it wears the clearances like a dripping faucet will cut out brass seats at your kitchen sink. It actually woks in reverse of viscosity where to thick an oil does not provide sufficient lub to beatings and hence the metal to metal contact wears the bearings. Its all relative! Finding a oil, viscosity, capacity, relative to engine condition, environment, pump pressures, pump volume, while controlling temps, your operating enviromenent and no over or under lubricating and washing out bearings. ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 21:01:10 -0400 From: "Brian Kraut" Subject: RE: KR> wing ridgidity To: "KRnet" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Be carefull if you wind up with the wheels further forward of where they are with the retracts or the Diehl gear. You will wind up with a strong tendency for the tail to continue down and cause a bounce on a wheel landing. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Golden, Kevin Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 9:24 AM To: 'KRnet' Subject: RE: KR> wing ridgidity Is anyone building a KR landing gear to be more like the Wittman gear? I would like to build the gear to come off of the motor mount like the RV's, Tailwind, T18, etc, but with a bit of a mixture of gear like the Titan Tornado has. In other words, with Wittman gear, but instead of tapered steel gear legs, they would be fiberglass rods. This is for the KR1. Now the load is on the firewall. Kevin. -----Original Message----- From: Martindale Family [mailto:johnjanet@optusnet.com.au] Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 7:13 PM To: KRnet Subject: Re: KR> wing ridgidity Hi Dean That sounds like a neat way to do it. My question is how do you get the wheels to finish up forward of the main spar (assuming a tail dragger) after extension from wells located between the spars? Do you somehow have the main tube running at an angle between the spars? Also, how far out is your pivot from the fuselage? I guess that having it at the ends of the stubs would allow the longest gear legs but then more stub distance and leg length would promote more twist between the spars which seems to be your concern. I think some uni-directional or carbon fibre strap, especially across the bottom of the wing between the pivot brackets wouldn't be a bad thing but I've no engineering analysis to support that. >From vague memory, my TC has his gear legs hanging off an extension of >the tube you mention that goes through the centre of the main and stops in the wing nose. His gear then folds up into the leading edge wing root fillet which is enlarged to allow it, that is, his legs and wheels all tuck away forward of the spar. I prefer your arrangement Dean but it would mean no stub fuel tanks...hmmm John The Martindale Family 29 Jane Circuit TOORMINA NSW 2452 AUSTRALIA phone: 61 2 66584767 email: johnjanet@optusnet.com.au ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dene Collett (SA)" To: "KRnet" Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 6:27 AM Subject: KR> wing ridgidity > Since my retract gear is attached to a tube running between the front > and rear spars that locates in a self aligning bearing/bush at each end much like the head of a rod end bearing which is attached by the WAF bolts to the spars, my question is: How ridgid is the wing with regard to the distance between the two spars once the skin is laid up (Mark L style skins)? > For those that have seen the lancair 360 gear, mine is very similar > where it attaches to the wing spars which means that if the spars move approx 1/2" further apart, the gear will become "unplugged". My stubs are not yet skinned and the rear spar is able to move forward and back with very little effort. How much force would it take to cause the wing to "stretch" once skinned and attached to the outer wing? > I suppose I could put a wrap of uni-directional tape around the wing > in the area of the WAF's?? > Regards > Dene Collett > South Africa > KR2SRT builder > mailto: dene.collett@telkomsa.net > www.whisperaircraft.co.za _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html *The information contained in this message may be confidential and/or subject to legal privilege, and is for the use of the intended addressee only. Any unauthorized use, dissemination or copying of the information in this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this message.* _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 21:41:23 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> pumps and sumps To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <018901c54a09$71b0cb20$1202a8c0@1700xp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I don't really want to get into this discussion, because it will lead me to do 10 hours of backup research, rather than 10 hours of KR work, but I've always thought that a unless it was deeply finned (inside and out) a larger oil pan didn't do a lot for you other than give you a slightly larger oil quantity reserve (in case you develop a leak). But they also SLOW your warmup time, therefore increasing wear in the first few minutes after starting the engine. Once "steady state" is reached, you're just carrying extra weight (in the form of oil) around. Oil temps will not be improved over a smaller one once steady state is reached. Larger pans are also handy for race cars that need baffling to keep the oil from sloshing to somewhere other than the middle during hard cornering and braking. Theoretically, airplanes should be kept with the ball centered and are usually close to horizontal in the longitudinal axis, so that's not a biggie for us, especially KR pilots. WW said his Piet, which sits pretty nose high (unlike the KR), never starved for oil under any circumstances, using a stock sump. I've heard him say that the stock steel flat pan is perfectly adequate for aviation use. Having said all that, I have a deep pan, mainly because my steel one was hideously deformed, and for the extra few minutes I'll gain if I develop an oil leak, not for any expected improvment in cooling (other than the fact that aluminum conducts heat better than steel, and there's more surface area in a deeper pan). Here's a statement out of Fisher's "How to Hotrod Corvair Engines": "improving the flow of oil reduces bearing temperatures". That's taken totally out of context, but he also recommends a larger oil pump. This guy wrote the "Bible" on Corvair engines, as far as I'm concerned, and I feel sure his statement is based on experimentation with Corvair engines. As has been mentioned on CorvAircraft though, this will increase loads on the distributor's pump gear drive pin, and early style pins have been known to shear. Later versions are stronger, and should fare better. I don't see how a high pressure pump could "wash out the bearings" any faster than a regular pump, since any excess pressure is regulated to a preset level by the oil pressure bypass valve that Mark's already mentioned. The bearings simply never see any extra pressure in this case. It may very well be true that the oil may get slightly hotter due to extra "work" being peformed on the oil, and some small amount of power is wasted, IF the pressure is unecessary to achieve adequate flow. But on the other hand, if bearing clearances open up, with a higher output pump you'll have more " headroom" before the bearings starve for oil and something nasty happens. That might get you to the airport before the fan quits and the pilot starts sweating. I guess the bottom line is that I don't see any compelling reason to condemn anybody from having a higher volume pump, or for what kind of oil pan they are running. Either way is a compromise in one or more directions. I just got off on an hour of reading "How to Hotrod Corvair Engines". This thing is just chock full of handy information. Now I know where many of the experts get their expertise. It's no longer in print, but I got mine off of ebay 5 years ago for $8. There are two copies there right now, one for $16 "buy it now". And a Google search will turn up enough $20 copies for everybody that's thinking about building a CorvAircraft to have one this week. Worth 5x the price, easily... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net -------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 22:25:21 -0500 From: "robert glidden" Subject: Re: KR> pumps and sumps To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <005a01c54a0f$94568470$6401a8c0@ADMINISTRATOR> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original And then there was one,thanks for the heads up Mark L. $16.00 is a excellent price...Bob There are two copies there right now, one for $16 > "buy it now". And a Google search will turn up enough $20 copies for > everybody that's thinking about building a CorvAircraft to have one > this week. Worth 5x the price, easily... > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama > see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford email to > N56ML "at" hiwaay.net > -------------------------------------------------------------- > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 23:29:37 -0400 From: "Brian Kraut" Subject: RE: KR> was Posa, now Revflow To: "KRnet" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Thanks to all that answered. Seems the Revflow is a little better than the Posa, with some of the same idiosyncrasies. I suspect that either carb could be made to work fine by anyone that knows how to properly adjust mixture and takes the time to contour the needle just right. I also suspect that this is another area where having an oxygen sensor and mixture meter would make a world of difference. Most people just know that the engine is running bad at some power settings and can't tell if it is rich or lean. For those people, tuning one of these carbs without a mixture meter probably would be a nightmare. We will see if I have the same feelings after I start to twiddle with it. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces+brian.kraut=engalt.com@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces+brian.kraut=engalt.com@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Orma Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 12:13 PM To: KRnet Subject: Re: KR> was Posa, now Revflow The revflow was designed as an improvement to the posa. It refined some of the poor areas that the posa just could not do right, like the mixture control and positive fuel shutoff. As Steve said, for some of us, the needle still did not cover all the range of performance. I also custom carved a needle to meet my needs. Unlike the posa, at least this could be done, with a good chance of success. Joe at Revmaster will work with you and even custom cut a needle for you if necessary. I like the carb and will continue it's use. Orma Southfield, MI N110LR Tweety, old enough to drink this year Flying and more flying, to the gathering or bust http://www.kr-2.aviation-mechanics.com/ _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 162 *************************************** ================================== ABC Amber Outlook Converter v4.20 Trial version ==================================