From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net To: John Bouyea Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 171 Date: 5/1/2005 5:54:18 PM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Learn from my mistake. (long) (F Ross) 2. The Internet: friend or foe? (Dan Heath) 3. internet friend or foe (Don Chisholm) 4. Re: Learn from my mistake. (long) (larry flesner) 5. Re: Learn from my mistake. (long) (Orma) 6. Re: Learn from my mistake. (long) (Tinyauto@aol.com) 7. Re: Learn from my mistake. (long) (JAMES C FERRIS) 8. Re: Learn from my mistake. (long) (iennaco@att.net) 9. Re: the internet: friend or foe? (JAMES C FERRIS) 10. Learning from mistakes (Colin & Bev Rainey) 11. Help please! High Speed Miss (Brian G. Douglas) 12. Re: Help please! High Speed Miss (Mark Langford) 13. Re: K R 1 for sale (Frank Tomko) 14. RE: Help please! High Speed Miss (Brian Kraut) 15. Re: EFI contrast to Ron Slender remarks (Phillip Matheson) 16. Re: EFI contrast to Ron Slender remarks (Phillip Matheson) 17. mistakes / new story-long (larry flesner) 18. Re: EFI contrast to Ron Slender remarks (Phillip Matheson) 19. Re: mistakes / new story-long (Mark Jones) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 1 May 2005 01:25:38 -0700 (PDT) From: F Ross Subject: Re: KR> Learn from my mistake. (long) To: KRnet Message-ID: <20050501082538.58583.qmail@web32004.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mark, Like Joe, I made this same mistake with flaps and knew what was coming in your story. Glad it all worked out okay. My flaps situation occured when our airport decided no "touch-and-goes" after 0700 and I was trying to get one more in before the time to quit came up. A point we can all take from this is how easy it is to get distracted when everything is going TOO good. You were having a great day flying and wanted to get right back up there. Also, it is more important to know what to do when things go wrong than it is to keep hoping nothing will ever go wrong. Thanks for this story. It just goes to show how important the internet is to us all. Frank Frank Ross, EAA Chapter 35, San Geronimo, TX RAF Lakenheath, Suffolk, England, UK Visit my photo album at: http://photos.yahoo.com/alamokr2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sun, 1 May 2005 05:41:36 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) From: "Dan Heath" Subject: KR> The Internet: friend or foe? To: Message-ID: <4274A450.000003.02152@DANHOMECOMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I guess those who don't like the Internet, are sort of like those who don't like the KR, but have never flown one. I also guess that they must have a very narrow focus and cannot see beyond the technical. They cannot see how the KR and Corvair Internet communities have changed over the years and how it has enabled the formation of a world wide family of friends who happen to build engines and airplanes. Too bad for them, too good for those of us, who CAN see. See you in Mt. Vernon - 2005 - KR Gathering See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for building has expired. Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC -------Original Message------- ---------------------------------------------- I guess these both speak for themselves, but I don't remember Bob ever having posted to either KRnet or to CorvAircraft, ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Sun, 1 May 2005 07:34:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Don Chisholm Subject: KR> internet friend or foe To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20050501113432.9928.qmail@web88002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I'm pretty new to this whole internet thing but I've been around the homebuilt scene for a while now and misinformation is not excusive to the net. There has been times when I was seeking info on a subject with a fair idea about it only to be confused by someone that was trying to dazzle me with their brilliance. I was baffled by B.S. as the saying goes. I don't see it as being any different here except this is worldwide and exclusive to KR people. Everybody loves to be center stage, me included but you have to be pretty nervy to present any half baked ideas here because it's soon contested There is a knowledge base here that equals and exceeds the local scene. So where can the bad come from that? ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Sun, 01 May 2005 07:09:47 -0500 From: larry flesner Subject: Re: KR> Learn from my mistake. (long) To: KRnet Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20050501070947.00860100@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" All of a sudden it hit me like a brick wall. I did not raise my speed brake after I made the last landing. As I raised the speed brake, the airspeed quickly reached 100...110...120 and I pulled back on the stick and she climbed like a homesick angel. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ I guess that also answers the question for those in doubt as to the speed brake being effective or not. I aborted a landing at a grass strip once and the seven seconds it takes for my electrically operated speed brake to come up seemed like an eternity with the trees at the end getting taller every second. That incident has moved my decision point for abort several seconds earlier in my approach even though I didn't catch any folige with my tailwheel !! :-) Have a nice day and fly safe............ Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Sun, 1 May 2005 09:09:57 -0400 From: "Orma" Subject: Re: KR> Learn from my mistake. (long) To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <003601c54e4f$139482d0$0302a8c0@ROBBINS1> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original I'm sure that every KRnet reader is glad that you are here telling the story as a lesson learned. The only point that I will make is that, a lot of builders are installing belly boards or speed brakes and the motivation is that they want to slow down. Flaps provide drag, will rotate the nose over for better visibility, but also provide lift. When my flaps are accidentally forgotten while doing hasty pattern work, the result is that I climb steeper at a slower speed. Whereas a forgotten speed brake only provides drag. Orma Southfield, MI N110LR Tweety, old enough to drink this year Flying and more flying, to the gathering or bust http://www.kr-2.aviation-mechanics.com/ ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Sun, 1 May 2005 09:14:39 EDT From: Tinyauto@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> Learn from my mistake. (long) To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <6.4433a447.2fa6303f@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Maybe a micro switch with a big red indicator light wouldn't be a bad thing? Glad your safe! Kevin ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Sun, 1 May 2005 09:55:19 -0400 From: JAMES C FERRIS Subject: Re: KR> Learn from my mistake. (long) To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20050501.095519.1660.0.mijnil@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Right on, climbrate is a function of excess thrust amd the belly borad does a goog job on reducing this and thus the climb rate. Jim On Sun, 1 May 2005 09:09:57 -0400 "Orma" writes: > I'm sure that every KRnet reader is glad that you are here telling > the story > as a lesson learned. The only point that I will make is that, a lot > of > builders are installing belly boards or speed brakes and the > motivation is > that they want to slow down. Flaps provide drag, will rotate the > nose over > for better visibility, but also provide lift. When my flaps are > accidentally forgotten while doing hasty pattern work, the result is > that I > climb steeper at a slower speed. Whereas a forgotten speed brake > only > provides drag. > > Orma > Southfield, MI > N110LR Tweety, old enough to drink this year > Flying and more flying, to the gathering or bust > http://www.kr-2.aviation-mechanics.com/ > > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Sun, 01 May 2005 14:21:32 +0000 From: iennaco@att.net Subject: Re: KR> Learn from my mistake. (long) To: KRnet Message-ID: <050120051421.17302.4274E5EC0000A13F000043962161243646010C0E02020A07@att.net> Content-Type: text/plain KR Net, Great story! Many years ago in Cadet Training we (fledgling plots) were encouraged to tell our "pucker" tales in hopes of saving another cadet from similar demise. Unlike in the business world where deficienies are usually buried for political reasons, these stories are important to hear when the stakes are real. Kudos to the KR Net people. Dick Iennaco PS. I too took off with flaps full down on in a Rockwell 112 TC at Ft. Lauderddale with none but buildings and traffic below; real pucker time. Got permission to land OK but embarrasing when the tower later, asked, "What?". -------------- Original message from "Orma" : -------------- > I'm sure that every KRnet reader is glad that you are here telling the > story > as a lesson learned. The only point that I will make is that, a lot of > builders are installing belly boards or speed brakes and the motivation is > that they want to slow down. Flaps provide drag, will rotate the nose over > for better visibility, but also provide lift. When my flaps are > accidentally forgotten while doing hasty pattern work, the result is that I > climb steeper at a slower speed. Whereas a forgotten speed brake only > provides drag. > > Orma > Southfield, MI > N110LR Tweety, old enough to drink this year > Flying and more flying, to the gathering or bust > http://www.kr-2.aviation-mechanics.com/ > > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Sun, 1 May 2005 10:28:13 -0400 From: JAMES C FERRIS Subject: Re: KR> the internet: friend or foe? To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20050501.102813.1660.1.mijnil@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii No question that William is the expert on corvair engines and that Mark is the KR expert but there are other experts on the list thst have forgot more than someone has learned from building and been flying a KR-2 for twenty years. Marks work on bringing the new airfoil subject is a good point and there are other experts that trained Dr. Michael Selig, I can remember when he came to our branch to learn the Eppler program (Dr. Richard Eppler, laminar flow airfoil designer and sailplane designer) from Dan Sommers also expert on laminar flow airfoils. Most everyone on the list can contribute but no one is perfect, not even the two who have built and are flying there KR-2 for years. Jim On Sat, 30 Apr 2005 17:53:06 -0500 "Oscar Zuniga" writes: > Call me slow, but I'm just now reading the letters to the editor in > the > current "Sport Pilot" and see a letter from Mark Langford rebutting > William > Wynne's article about the internet and email lists. Mark's point is > that > the lists have value, while William's article posited that they only > lead to > conjecture, endless discussions, and non-expert "experts". > > Of course, the letter right after Mark's was from Bob Lester, and it > was a > counterpoint to Mark's. > > Less filling... more taste. Which is it? ;o) Myself, I've learned > an > immeasurable amount about experimental aviation and related topics > from my > 12+ years on the internet and email lists, but so far have not > completed nor > flown a single homebuilt! > > Oscar Zuniga do not archive > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Sun, 1 May 2005 14:48:01 -0400 From: "Colin & Bev Rainey" Subject: KR> Learning from mistakes To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <003801c54e7e$4eb50860$c7432141@RaineyDay> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Netters Mark's experience shared here is exactly what we should all try to do when things "happen". We just might save a life. That is the reason I became an Aviation Safety Counselor with the FAA. It is a volunteer position that assists the FAA Safety Program in putting on Safety Seminars, and promoting a lower risk atmosphere for us all to operate in. Any who desire should look into this at their local FSDO. Cessna stopped making the 172 model with 40 degrees flaps for the same reason as Mark found with belly board down; the plane would not climb, and if the pilot panicked, he was in the trees. Larry's mentioning of planning a proper timing for a go-around is exactly what all of us should rehearse when NOT required to perform for safety reasons, in order to be ready for the real thing, when someone or something makes us react unexpectedly. One more thought: when I teach a student, I have then sit in a chair at home, and when they come to fly, get there early, and perform what we call "chair flying". I have them sit and rehearse with no engine running, no radio, just concentration, and rehearse every procedure that they possibly could be asked or required to perform in flight. This establishes the practice, for the you play the way you practice, and then we do it the same way during a lesson. Then while test flying the plane, and you have already done your speed measurements for the day etc..., go through your emergency procedures. Simulate an emergency engine out and setup a glide to a field you choose, then go through whatever troubleshooting you can do. Start at 3000 so that you have plenty of time, and can also find out what altitude is too low for complete troubleshooting, and the focus should only be on getting down safely. When the pucker factor reaches 10, you will bless this rehearsal because it will come without thinking and you can FLY THE PLANE! That is why I have shared my checklists with anyone who has asked; because all should rehearse their procedures on a regular basis. Mark's training included a calm approach to troubleshooting while still flying the plane; how do I know? because he reported he knew what his climb rate was. His main focus was flying the plane. GOOD JOB MARK! Just some thoughts.... Brian I have the EGT, can't find the mixture gauge.... Colin crainey1@cfl.rr.com http://kr-builder.org/Colin/index.html KR2(td) N96TA Sanford, FL Apex Lending, Inc. 407-323-6960 (p) 407-557-3260 (f) crainey@apexlending.com ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Sun, 1 May 2005 16:52:44 -0500 From: "Brian G. Douglas" Subject: KR> Help please! High Speed Miss To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <000b01c54e9b$86c45b80$e7f6fc04@youryk5cbmeeo8> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Hi Gang! I was out flying for the first time in 2 months (due to job and WX). When during a fast low aproach at full throttle the engine skipped a beat. Just one beat but it was heard on the ground and I d mn sure felt it. It has done this before and I was thinking that the filter after the Gascolator was just to much for the gravity feed carb. IE running lean, I removed the element and it seemed better. I have the RevMaster 2100, 350 TSN, 15 TSTOH (pistons, head, cylinders, rings, auto spark conversion ) I have the Revflow "carb". I don't know what jet is on it. That is one of my weak areas of knowledge. OK gang any ideas! PS I was thinking aboput just replacing the Revflow with a new one but need to know what size that I need. I have the money but I do like to spend only when I have to. Some times throwing money at a problem works and some times it does not Thanks All! Brian G. Douglas N8575C KR2 Tri Gear Killeen Texas ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Sun, 1 May 2005 17:28:02 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> Help please! High Speed Miss To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <032101c54e9d$09de9020$1202a8c0@1700xp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Brian Douglas wrote: > I was out flying for the first time in 2 months (due to job and WX). When > during a fast low aproach at full throttle the engine skipped a beat. Just > one beat but it was heard on the ground and I d mn sure felt it. It > has done this before and I was thinking that the filter after the > Gascolator was > just to much for the gravity feed carb. IE running lean, I removed > the element and it seemed better. I don't know diddley about Revflows, but everything you describe so far sounds like insufficient fuel flow. Wide open throttle only, right? Is it gravity feed? If so, I'd do a fuel flow test and make sure you have more than enough (I think the rule is at least 50% more flow than WOT would require). That's a start though. Is it better with a full tank than near empty? That would be another clue. ?That's where I'd start... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net -------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Sun, 1 May 2005 16:18:35 -0700 From: "Frank Tomko" Subject: Re: KR> K R 1 for sale To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <004001c54ea4$1ae38a90$8376d642@Temp> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Hi Bill can you send some pics and maybe more info on your K R 1 that will soon be ready for sale? Thanks Frank Tomko ezflyer@charter.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Starrs" To: "KRnet" Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 7:50 PM Subject: Re: KR> K R 1 for sale >I will have my KR 1 for sale soon ,best offer over $ 6,000.Bill starrs > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Frank Tomko" > To: "KRnet" > Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 4:17 PM > Subject: KR> K R 1 for sale > > > Hi Bill, do you know if there is a KR 1 out there for sale? if so email > ezflyer@charter.net Thamk you Frank > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bill Sadler" > To: "KRnet" > Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 7:33 AM > Subject: KR> Retrackable landing geasLang > > >> Anyone looking for a set retractable landing gears for KR1 or 2 or >> whatever never used got 5"tires and wheels to go with them mail me >> offline at- renosadler@charter.net >> >> Bill >> _______________________________________ >> Search the KRnet Archives at >> http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net >> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Sun, 1 May 2005 19:26:56 -0400 From: "Brian Kraut" Subject: RE: KR> Help please! High Speed Miss To: "KRnet" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Put in an Oxygen sensor and mixture gauge. That will take out a lot of the guess work. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Brian G. Douglas Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2005 5:53 PM To: KRnet Subject: KR> Help please! High Speed Miss Hi Gang! I was out flying for the first time in 2 months (due to job and WX). When during a fast low aproach at full throttle the engine skipped a beat. Just one beat but it was heard on the ground and I d mn sure felt it. It has done this before and I was thinking that the filter after the Gascolator was just to much for the gravity feed carb. IE running lean, I removed the element and it seemed better. I have the RevMaster 2100, 350 TSN, 15 TSTOH (pistons, head, cylinders, rings, auto spark conversion ) I have the Revflow "carb". I don't know what jet is on it. That is one of my weak areas of knowledge. OK gang any ideas! PS I was thinking aboput just replacing the Revflow with a new one but need to know what size that I need. I have the money but I do like to spend only when I have to. Some times throwing money at a problem works and some times it does not Thanks All! Brian G. Douglas N8575C KR2 Tri Gear Killeen Texas _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 10:10:04 +1000 From: "Phillip Matheson" Subject: Re: KR> EFI contrast to Ron Slender remarks To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <001501c54eab$4ab04f90$0630ddcb@StationW2k04> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ----- Original Message ----- From: "VW Engines" To: "Phillip Matheson" Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2005 10:32 AM Subject: Re: KR> EFI contrast to Ron Slender remarks > > --Philip/ Colin > > Just wondering where Colin will buy a computer off a car that will > work off > the shelf with a 2200 vw air cooled engine. > > Sure car engines have computers and work well with the engine they > came out > of. > They cannot work out multi coil set up ( unless they were one > originally) and > I would say difficult to work a dual ignition type arrangement. > > The problem it that there isn't a car you could take an EFI system out > of to > retro fit to a VW engine. > That is why anyone who tries cannot afford the development and the > time involved. > > That is why we have created a system that does produce excellent fuel burn, > compensates in altitude and you can actually buy one of these engines > from us both as 2000 and 2200 EFI. We have batch fire injectors and we > run off MAP sensor Colin. We use block temp to monitor start > enrichment. That is all we need. We have > incoming air temperature too. > And a good design planum. > > If for say you picked on any late model engine and left it as it was > and fitted it to an aircraft subject prop rpm the engine as an efi > engine would > most likely work fine. The problem is as I said there aren't any air cooled > ones and small liquid ones are heavy so what are the options?Although, > the computer may still keep asking for sensors that are no longer > needed. This is ok as a 1 off but with our experience with electronics > new looms are > essential and fitted and tested so that minimal expertise is required > by the aircraft builder in respect off installing an EFI engine. Our > computers are the latest in aftermarket EFI management fully programmable > with multi coils. > You can even buy a card and data log your flight. > > I don't know where I can buy an aircooled, EFI engine, that produces > a 100 > hp + at efficient prop rpm that can data log flight engine operation. > Choices start to get pretty narrow when you include all that. > > VW Engine Centre makes a 2000 and 2200 EFI gear drive experimental > engine. > > Very soon there will be an RG TT 2200 EFI in an XL in the USA and he > is surrounded by some carb engine Jabiru 6`s so all the armchair talk > will be out the window with strong comparisons available on a level > playing field. Whatever the outcome, I think you would have to get in > the que to see this engine in the aircraft. > > > > Ron Slender > > > > Phillip Matheson matheson@dodo.com.au Australia VH PKR See our engines and kits at. http://www.vw-engines.com/ http://www.homebuilt-aviation.com/ See my KR Construction web page at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/FlyingKRPhil/VHPKR.html Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 10:12:06 +1000 From: "Phillip Matheson" Subject: Re: KR> EFI contrast to Ron Slender remarks To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <001801c54eab$9384b850$0630ddcb@StationW2k04> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ----- Original Message ----- From: "VW Engines" To: "Phillip Matheson" Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2005 10:32 AM Subject: Re: KR> EFI contrast to Ron Slender remarks > > --Philip/ Colin > > Just wondering where Colin will buy a computer off a car that will > work off > the shelf with a 2200 vw air cooled engine. > > Sure car engines have computers and work well with the engine they > came out > of. > They cannot work out multi coil set up ( unless they were one > originally) and > I would say difficult to work a dual ignition type arrangement. > > The problem it that there isn't a car you could take an EFI system out > of to > retro fit to a VW engine. > That is why anyone who tries cannot afford the development and the > time involved. > > That is why we have created a system that does produce excellent fuel burn, > compensates in altitude and you can actually buy one of these engines > from us both as 2000 and 2200 EFI. We have batch fire injectors and we > run off MAP sensor Colin. We use block temp to monitor start > enrichment. That is all we need. We have > incoming air temperature too. > And a good design planum. > > If for say you picked on any late model engine and left it as it was > and fitted it to an aircraft subject prop rpm the engine as an efi > engine would > most likely work fine. The problem is as I said there aren't any air cooled > ones and small liquid ones are heavy so what are the options?Although, > the computer may still keep asking for sensors that are no longer > needed. This is ok as a 1 off but with our experience with electronics > new looms are > essential and fitted and tested so that minimal expertise is required > by the aircraft builder in respect off installing an EFI engine. Our > computers are the latest in aftermarket EFI management fully programmable > with multi coils. > You can even buy a card and data log your flight. > > I don't know where I can buy an aircooled, EFI engine, that produces > a 100 > hp + at efficient prop rpm that can data log flight engine operation. > Choices start to get pretty narrow when you include all that. > > VW Engine Centre makes a 2000 and 2200 EFI gear drive experimental > engine. > > Very soon there will be an RG TT 2200 EFI in an XL in the USA and he > is surrounded by some carb engine Jabiru 6`s so all the armchair talk > will be out the window with strong comparisons available on a level > playing field. Whatever the outcome, I think you would have to get in > the que to see this engine in the aircraft. > > > > Ron Slender > > > > Phillip Matheson matheson@dodo.com.au Australia VH PKR See our engines and kits at. http://www.vw-engines.com/ http://www.homebuilt-aviation.com/ See my KR Construction web page at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/FlyingKRPhil/VHPKR.html Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 17 Date: Sun, 01 May 2005 19:37:48 -0500 From: larry flesner Subject: KR> mistakes / new story-long To: KRnet Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20050501193748.0085f580@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" This seems to be "sharing and learning from others mistakes" weekend so I'll share with you a few exciting moments I had this morning as 13 years of building and lots of fun flying flashed before my eyes !!!! After diver dumping (hauling skydivers) all day yesterday in a tired C182 I was looking forward to some KR time today. I was off to the airport at 7:30AM with blue skies and light winds. I rolled the trailer out of the way, rolled out the Rans S-6 a friend of mine has in the hangar, and rolled out the KR. With everything put back in place and a quick preflight, I was ready for another YEE HAA kind of day. A quick shot of prime and a pull on the starter handle had the blades rotating. Wouldn't fire a lick. D#m*, must have flooded it so I kept the starter engaged and went to full throttle to try to clear the induction system. Still didn't hit a single time. O.K., let it set for a minute or two and let the gas evaporate. Tried it again and it coughed to life, ran maybe 10 seconds, stumbled and died. HEY, IS THAT SMOKE ROLLING OUT OF THE COWL !! SH*#, NOW WHAT DO I DO, KEEP CRANKING OR RUN FOR MY LIFE. I shut off the fuel and jumped out. As I reached the front of the KR I spotted a two inch rolling flame on the bottom of the cowl with melting, burning, dripping paint and what I learned later was melting, burning epoxy!!!!! DUMB MISTAKE #1 : I had flooded the engine. Jeff Scott told me, and maybe the net, on at least one occasion that the 0-200 is an easy starter without prime. I never listened and have on several occasions flooded the engine without any problems. DUMB MISTAKE #2 : No fire extinguisher handy. I quickly remembered the two gallon weed sprayer setting in the hangar that I use to wash down the engine. Hoping it had some water in it I made two or three 20 foot leaps to the hangar and back. It was nearly full !!!! I know you're not supposed to spray water on a fuel fire but hey, MY BABY WAS BURNING !!!! The first shot of water quickly extinguished the burning cowl on the outside so I stuck the nozzle in the access hole for the oil quickdrain, pumped like hell on the sprayer and directed the nozzle in every direction I could inside the cowl. It probably only took 10 seconds to extinguish the flame but I think I pumped the sprayer half empty. Thinking I had the fire out I ran to the truck to get my battery powered drill and bit to remove the cowl. Not knowing what shape the battery was in I grabbed the extra battery also. Turns out they were both nearly run down but between the two of them I removed the cowl. Soot everywhere but no damage at all that I could detect to the engine. The paint was not even scorched on the carb heat box. The cowl was another issue. An area about twice the size of your hand and fingers was TRASHED ! The epoxy had burned completely out of the glass cloth and you could see daylight right through the weave in several areas. I have no clue as to what ignited the fire. I'm sure I flooded the engine and supplied the fuel but there was no hint of a backfire or anything that would hint of trouble. Lesson 1: Raw fuel outside the induction system is BAD NEWS! I may remove my primer and will use a different starting procedure from now on. The engine will be cranking before I induce any fuel into the system by either cracking or pumping the throttle. Lesson 2: I intend to purchase a small fire extinguisher and carry it in the KR. Lesson 3: Resin and paint can continue to burn even after the fuel (gas) has burned off. When I repair the cowl next week I intend to build in a small stainless or aluminum catch basin under the carb that will route any fuel leakage to the access hole for the oil quickdrain rather then let it possibly pool in the cowl. Being a taildragger it will have a nice natural incline. If a fire does develop, it will keep the flames out of contact with the resin and what little fuel stays on the metal will hopefully burn off quickly. 1000+ hours and this was my first experiance with an engine fire. Hopefully it will be my last ! I'm sure others may see other lessons to be learned here and if so, good. As for me, I'M ONE LUCKY DUDE !!! My "Little Phoenix" will rise from the ashes to fly again !!! YEEEEEEEEE HAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaa !!! Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Message: 18 Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 10:42:13 +1000 From: "Phillip Matheson" Subject: Re: KR> EFI contrast to Ron Slender remarks To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <00d001c54eaf$c8b44d70$0630ddcb@StationW2k04> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sorry for sending this twice ??????????? Phillip Matheson matheson@dodo.com.au Australia VH PKR See our engines and kits at. http://www.vw-engines.com/ http://www.homebuilt-aviation.com/ See my KR Construction web page at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/FlyingKRPhil/VHPKR.html Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 19 Date: Sun, 1 May 2005 19:53:54 -0500 From: "Mark Jones" Subject: Re: KR> mistakes / new story-long To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <002f01c54eb1$7432ee80$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Wow....glad to hear you have no major losses. What a weekend....I am glad it is over......I could not fly today due to weather....strong winds and SNOW showers. My wife must be one hell of a woman to have convinced me to move to Wisconsin. Of course, it is her home. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "larry flesner" To: "KRnet" Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2005 7:37 PM Subject: KR> mistakes / new story-long > > > This seems to be "sharing and learning from others mistakes" weekend > so I'll share with you a few exciting moments I had this morning as 13 > years of building and lots of fun flying flashed before my eyes !!!! > > After diver dumping (hauling skydivers) all day yesterday in a tired > C182 I was looking forward to some KR time today. I was off to the > airport at 7:30AM with blue skies and light winds. I rolled the > trailer out of the way, rolled out the Rans S-6 a friend of mine has > in the hangar, and rolled out the KR. With everything put back in > place and a quick preflight, I was ready for another YEE HAA kind of > day. > > A quick shot of prime and a pull on the starter handle had the blades > rotating. Wouldn't fire a lick. D#m*, must have flooded it so I kept > the starter engaged and went to full throttle to try to clear the > induction system. Still didn't hit a single time. O.K., let it set > for a minute or two and let the gas evaporate. Tried it again and it > coughed to life, ran maybe 10 seconds, stumbled and died. > > HEY, IS THAT SMOKE ROLLING OUT OF THE COWL !! SH*#, > NOW WHAT DO I DO, KEEP CRANKING OR RUN FOR MY > LIFE. I shut off the fuel and jumped out. As I reached the front of > the KR I spotted a two inch rolling flame on the bottom of the cowl > with melting, burning, dripping paint and what I learned later was > melting, burning epoxy!!!!! > > DUMB MISTAKE #1 : I had flooded the engine. Jeff Scott told me, and > maybe the net, on at least one occasion that the 0-200 is an easy > starter without prime. I never listened and have on several occasions > flooded the engine without any problems. > > DUMB MISTAKE #2 : No fire extinguisher handy. I quickly remembered > the two gallon weed sprayer setting in the hangar that I use to wash > down the engine. Hoping it had some water in it I made two or three > 20 foot leaps to the hangar and back. It was nearly full !!!! I know > you're not supposed to spray water on a fuel fire but hey, MY BABY WAS > BURNING !!!! The first shot of water quickly extinguished the burning > cowl on the outside so I stuck the nozzle in the access hole for the > oil quickdrain, pumped like hell on the sprayer and directed the > nozzle in every direction I could inside the cowl. It probably > only took 10 seconds to extinguish the flame but I think I > pumped the sprayer half empty. > > Thinking I had the fire out I ran to the truck to get my battery > powered drill and bit to remove the cowl. Not knowing what shape the > battery was in I grabbed the extra battery also. Turns out they were > both nearly run down but between the two of them I removed the cowl. > Soot everywhere but no damage at all that I could detect to the > engine. The paint was not even scorched on the carb heat box. The > cowl was another issue. An area about twice the size of your hand > and fingers was TRASHED ! The epoxy had burned completely > out of the glass cloth and you could see daylight right through > the weave in several areas. > > I have no clue as to what ignited the fire. I'm sure I flooded the > engine and supplied the fuel but there was no hint of a backfire or > anything that would hint of trouble. > > Lesson 1: Raw fuel outside the induction system is BAD NEWS! I may > remove my primer and will use a different starting procedure from now > on. The engine will be cranking before I induce any fuel into the > system by either cracking or pumping the throttle. > > Lesson 2: I intend to purchase a small fire extinguisher and carry it > in the KR. > > Lesson 3: Resin and paint can continue to burn even after the fuel > (gas) has burned off. When I repair the cowl next week I intend to > build in a small stainless or aluminum catch basin under the carb that > will route any fuel leakage to the access hole for the oil quickdrain > rather then let it possibly pool in the cowl. Being a taildragger it > will have a nice natural incline. If a fire does develop, it will keep > the flames out of contact with the resin and what little fuel stays on > the metal will hopefully burn off quickly. > > 1000+ hours and this was my first experiance with an engine > fire. Hopefully it will be my last ! I'm sure others may see other > lessons to be learned here and if so, good. As for me, I'M ONE LUCKY > DUDE !!! My "Little Phoenix" will rise from the ashes to fly again > !!! > > YEEEEEEEEE HAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaa !!! > > Larry Flesner > > > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 171 *************************************** ================================== ABC Amber Outlook Converter v4.20 Trial version ==================================