From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net To: John Bouyea Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 196 Date: 5/14/2005 9:00:25 PM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. still here (robert clark) 2. Re: KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 195 (Jumpnkd@aol.com) 3. Re: Todd's Canopy update (Phillip Matheson) 4. kr hinges (Don Chisholm) 5. blah, blah, blah, blah, blah the old days (Kevin Jarvis) 6. Re: blah, blah, blah, blah, blah the old days (Michael Gaskins) 7. blah blah blah and so forth (Don Chisholm) 8. blah, [snip] blah the old days (Kevin Jarvis) 9. Re: blah, blah, blah, blah, blah the old days (Mark Langford) 10. Ok I'll shut up (Kevin Jarvis) 11. RE: blah, blah, blah, blah, blah the old days (Ron Freiberger) 12. krnet (Don Chisholm) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 15:37:28 -0700 (PDT) From: robert clark Subject: KR> still here To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20050514223729.29571.qmail@web51408.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Dont worry us true KR builders and flyers will be here to help. Were not going any where. 250 hours and counting Bob Clark Coral Springs,FL http://home.bellsouth.net/p/s/community.dll?ep=16&groupid=220261&ck= --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 18:58:23 EDT From: Jumpnkd@aol.com Subject: KR> Re: KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 195 To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <218.d86cb5.2fb7dc8f@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" In a message dated 5/14/05 5:59:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time, krnet-request@mylist.net writes: > You could use a T-tail and sweep the verticle to move the horizontal > tail back. Jim > Sanford fl. > I wonder if there are any flying like this? "People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it."— George Bernard Shaw, (1856-1950) Irish playright and winner of the Nobel Prize for Literature 1925 Yours Bill ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 10:20:57 +1000 From: "Phillip Matheson" Subject: Re: KR> Todd's Canopy update To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <004401c558e3$f7df8a90$3cb0dccb@StationW2k04> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" First, Well said I was getting very sick of all the NONE KR emails. ___ I have my Todd's Canopy on rails and the rear foam glass frame complete, What did some of you do with the front inside of the canopy? Did you just run glass tape around the front inside curve, or run foam and glass tape? I will be putting a wide tape glass frame to the outside front ,all the way to the rear, just not sure as to the inside front? The canopy will tilt forward Phillip Matheson matheson@dodo.com.au Australia VH PKR See our engines and kits at. http://www.vw-engines.com/ http://www.homebuilt-aviation.com/ See my KR Construction web page at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/FlyingKRPhil/VHPKR.html Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 21:06:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Don Chisholm Subject: KR> kr hinges To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20050515010609.42023.qmail@web88008.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I've got to keep the record straight but the rod ends I used came from a gentleman named Mel Locke from Calgary Alberta they are not rod ends like Dr. Dean suggested and personally I like his idea better. They were easier to do than what I did on my KR1. I'm still amazed that I got my hinge alignments proper but it did probably take 3 tries if I remember correctly. which explains why I spent so long building it because I probably built the plane 3 times. To the people just starting or planning on starting, stay the line because you're on a life altering venture and will develop skills and create associations that will serve you well. It's all about focus ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 21:12:42 -0400 From: Kevin Jarvis Subject: KR> blah, blah, blah, blah, blah the old days To: "krnet@mylist.net" Message-ID: <4286A20A.3010003@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed On and on we go, about every couple of months. Endless drivel about tools, cat poop, ownership resolution, do-not archive, the Gathering, questions directed to specific members. BS, bs, bs, soda pop, Corvairs and WW and VW. (sort the list by subject and you'll see what I mean) On and on and on. New information under old unrelated subject lines, so you have to read every post. Then someone says, "..hey lets get back to building KR's ! " and it's ok for a couple of months. Or a couple of hours....... Does anyone want a VHT-3 for their KR ? Probably not (some of you wouldn't know what they are). How about a Garmin 530 or 430 ? Oh yeah to that !! So why do we stick with an antiquated email/digest system when we can have a full blown multi-subject, multi-faceted forum. We could spew all of the BS that we want in the Cat Poop forum or go over to the tools section and spew some there or God forbid we go to the Ima Building a KR section and talk about any number of subjects like resin, landing gear, electrical, the xxxx airfoil, real building a KR subjects...... get the idea ? I received this from the admin of WingsForum.com at: http://www.wingsforum.com/index.php Sean said: I created this site because I was spending hours per day searching through emails trying to find information. Often even following an email thread could be difficult because the authors would change the email subject line. [end] I feel the same way as Sean. I thought that it was great when I found this group. I have an A&P and ATP and I can talk intelligently about airplane things, but I needed the "you build it information" that is here.... I don't need the BS, which a person wades through everyday, for several reasons, like the subject line. If we were all to migrate to Wingsforum, we could break down the subjects to read and post to and get just the information that we wanted AND it would be easy to find. Also permanent information could be posted as an uneditable "sticky" for everyone to easily find and read over and over. We could post pictures right to our posts. We could be notified by email when some one posted to our post. We could even have the same features that are here, email or digest list, the only difference would be the original message would have to be posted at WingsForum. The rest would be transparent. The features are.... well they are like using a GPS after the NDB. Those with the expertise would be invited to moderate those subjects that they are qualified for, such as the KR building and Mark L., for which he has already been invited to moderate. He might even get his KR finished if he weren't baby-sitting the BS here. Hey, there are guys here qualified for baby-sitting BS !! Sean went on to say: At first, Mark Langford sounded like he was very interested in slowly migrating both the KR and Corvair lists to the forums, but at some point it appears that he changed his mind. It was right about the time William Wynne left the Corvaircraft list. [end] Maybe WW would post his emails too. Only he can say. As for the naysayers, and Mark L. has said that a majority of users here do not want a change, go to Wingsforum, register and then snoop around. Make some posts over there and experiment with the settings. Post some of your pictures of Cat poop in the Hanger flying forum (sorry, No technical posts there). Post both your KRNet and Corvaircraft messages in parallel, here and there. You will see that it's like coming in out of the rain on a cold day. I read computer forums and I can tell you for a technical subject, there is nothing better than a well thought out forum. Building experimental aircraft and the subjects entailed is a shoo-in for a good forum. Yes Mark, I understand that you have built these lists from the git-go, that they are YOUR babies and I want nothing less than you and the others experts here to step up and moderate these details, but as for email/digest is passé and it's time to upgrade. Kevin Naples/Ottumwa N741T N410WA ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 21:53:46 -0400 From: Michael Gaskins Subject: Re: KR> blah, blah, blah, blah, blah the old days To: k.jarvis@mchsi.com, KRnet Message-ID: <4286ABAA.9010506@winterfairy.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Forgive another post on this thread which has itself gotten a little off topic. I'll preface this by saying that I make heavy use of some forums for a lot of my other hobbies, and I even went so far as to create my own domain with a forum that I never really went out and advertised (http://www.kitaircraft.info/phpBB2/index.php if anyone is interested). The problem with web based forums for aircraft kits is a question of archives. Most people prune the databases on forums periodically (if only to save space), and if the website eventually ceases to operate then even if they weren't expiring posts then all that data is gone. With an e-mail based mailing list though, one can easily keep track of the posts. My email client auto sorts all building lists into appropriate MBOX formatted files and a Linux cron job then backs up those files once per week in the case of hard drive crashes. This level of archiving means that even if I don't have time to read the list for a few days, or if something is brought up before I start building (which I haven't started building), I can always go back and reference that material. A web forum wouldn't work well for this sort of thing IMHO. Michael Gaskins Kevin Jarvis wrote: >So why do we stick with an antiquated email/digest system when we can >have a full blown multi-subject, multi-faceted forum. We could spew all >of the BS that we want in the Cat Poop forum or go over to the tools >section and spew some there or God forbid we go to the Ima Building a KR >section and talk about any number of subjects like resin, landing gear, >electrical, the xxxx airfoil, real building a KR subjects...... get the >idea ? > >I received this from the admin of WingsForum.com at: > >http://www.wingsforum.com/index.php > > ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 22:09:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Don Chisholm Subject: KR> blah blah blah and so forth To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20050515020952.45063.qmail@web88011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii seems some of us have real issues ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 22:15:20 -0400 From: Kevin Jarvis Subject: KR> blah, [snip] blah the old days To: "krnet@mylist.net" Message-ID: <4286B0B8.4010004@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Michael and those still reading, Archives are not the problem. Valuable information vs. the so much BS is the problem. I could care less about cat poop in the bushes, however, due to the nature of the users here, and you've probably seen some new subjects started on an old subject thread, the character of an email/digest forum is the problem. I try to read EVERY message because of this and it becomes a waste of time and anyone that says it doesn't happen often doesn't lurk here much. It happens often, way too often. Does your email client read the body of the subject mis-named messages and tell you that it's just so much fluff ? Can your email client sort all of the messages with a particular subject or word in the body of the message ? How many people here know what Linux is, yet alone how to code it ? Mark L. could fall down from a heart attack tomorrow or get killed by his FedEx loving dog. Any number of things could happen. Using a email/digest message system will not alter that. It is a moot issue to think nothing can go wrong. Besides, whoever is archiving it now can keep doing it and hopefully they will live forever. Michael Gaskins wrote: > Forgive another post on this thread which has itself gotten a little > off topic. > > I'll preface this by saying that I make heavy use of some forums for a > lot of my other hobbies, and I even went so far as to create my own > domain with a forum that I never really went out and advertised > (http://www.kitaircraft.info/phpBB2/index.php if anyone is > interested). The problem with web based forums for aircraft kits is a > question of archives. Most people prune the databases on forums > periodically (if only to save space), and if the website eventually > ceases to operate then even if they weren't expiring posts then all > that data is gone. > > With an e-mail based mailing list though, one can easily keep track of > the posts. My email client auto sorts all building lists into > appropriate MBOX formatted files and a Linux cron job then backs up > those files once per week in the case of hard drive crashes. This > level of archiving means that even if I don't have time to read the > list for a few days, or if something is brought up before I start > building (which I haven't started building), I can always go back and > reference that material. > > A web forum wouldn't work well for this sort of thing IMHO. > > Michael Gaskins > ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 21:51:55 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> blah, blah, blah, blah, blah the old days To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <006701c558f9$0e03acb0$2802a8c0@2600xp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Kevin Jarvis wrote: > So why do we stick with an antiquated email/digest system when we can > have a full blown multi-subject, multi-faceted forum. I did consider the Wings Forum when Sean first invited me to moderate it. In fact I WAS the moderator for a month or two. But there were about 3 posts during that time, and I found that I never even checked it, and certainly didn't do any moderation. > At first, Mark Langford sounded like he was very interested in slowly migrating > both the KR and Corvair lists to the forums, but at some point it appears that > he changed his mind. It was right about the time William Wynne left the > Corvaircraft list. I wouldn't say that I was ever "very interested". I did it reluctantly on a trial basis, and after the trial I decided not to do it. Part of the reason was that I'd asked 7 of KRnets oldest (and most internet savy) users what they thought about it. Their decision was unanimous AGAINST changing over to it. Part of the reason is that what we have works, and like Michael Gaskin says, archiving data would no longer be in my hands. As it is right now, I have every email ever sent to KRnet sitting on my hard drive and burned to DVD, and John Bouyea has another copy of it in his archive. I know what it means to have an internet company that you've trusted all your data to disappear one day. I saw it happen to a photo forum that I was on at one time. The users had all this time involved in setting up photo galleries, and one day they were gone, with no warning at all. And I don't see a problem with the KRnet archive search engine located at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp . It does everything I need for it to do, and instantly. Another reason given by the seven was that there are a lot of folks on KRnet who have a hard time even reading and replying to email. Swapping to a new kind of forum would derail a large percentage of KRnet members until they could figure out what was going on. It just seemed needless. One other area that I wonder about is advertising and email address harvesting. I can't see somebody going to the kind of trouble Sean is investing without expecting to cash in someday somehow. I may be completely wrong about that, but I like the advertising free, no-cookies-required, "private" KRnet email list, and I want it to stay that way. I've seen way too many of these sorts of things start out as user interest groups, but eventually turn into paid mouthpieces for vendors and manufacturers. Not gonna happen to KRnet. What finally did me in was when Sean sent a post to KRnet saying something like "I have a question for you guys, but you'll have to check the WingsForum to see it". That cooked my goose, because he could have just as easily posted it to KRnet, but deliberately sent it to KRnet (or maybe it was CorvAircraft) to focus attention on the Wings Forum. I'd already decided that it made no sense to swap over at that point anyway, so I asked him to take me off the moderator list. And it simply doesn't make sense to have several different KR forums for everybody to check. We're all right here, and people know where to come to get KR building information. > As for the naysayers, and Mark L. has said that a majority of users here do not want a change, go to >Wingsforum, register and then snoop around. Go right ahead. I've been there, done that, didn't see anything all that great about it that we haven't already worked around. > Yes Mark, I understand that you have built these lists from the git-go, that they are YOUR babies and I want nothing less than you and the others experts here to step up and moderate these details, but as for email/digest is passé and it's time to upgrade. < I didn't build either one of these lists from the git-go, although I was on them both from almost their inceptions. I eventually took them both over when the previous list-owners got tired of doing it (and I wasn't real thrilled about how they were being run anyway). Over the years I've come to the conclusion that I care too much about KRnet and CorvAircraft to let anybody else run either one of them. I like to be able to set the tone and keep things from getting out of hand. And on three occasions so far, I've thrown people off permanently for flagrantly violating the rules. I don't brag about being the owner, I just do the job. This particular incarnation of the list is a little clunky, but it does work. KRnet pays for itself out of voluntary contributions every few years (can't say the same for CorvAircraft though). Bottom line is that anybody that wants to go to the Wings Forum is welcome to it, or start you own KRnet. Matronix has one too, and it had about 3 posts on it last time I checked. But I'll still be right here in the dark ages of email lists. And what's the difference in me getting hit by a truck and Sean getting hit by a truck? End of discussion, as far as I'm concerned. Sorry, but I've got an airplane to get ready to haul to the airport... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama see homebuilt airplane at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 23:05:52 -0400 From: Kevin Jarvis Subject: KR> Ok I'll shut up To: "krnet@mylist.net" Message-ID: <4286BC90.9000307@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Since I have been flamed to DEATH off line, I will promise this to the KRNetters. I will NEVER make another post or ask another question except about building a KR. ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 22:07:21 -0400 From: "Ron Freiberger" Subject: RE: KR> blah, blah, blah, blah, blah the old days To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <001001c558f2$d4407090$b573de0c@Disorganized> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Mark, keep on keepin' on, and ignore fuzzynuts@comcast Ron Freiberger mail to ronandmartha at earthlink.net ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 23:41:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Don Chisholm Subject: KR> krnet To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20050515034107.68808.qmail@web88005.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii sometimes things get off subject,some times subjects are flogged to death, but for the most part this is great to be able to communicate with so many people that are interested in what I'm keenly interested in. My accolades go to Mark L. and crew, I personally think you've got something real good going here ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 196 *************************************** ================================== ABC Amber Outlook Converter v4.20 Trial version ==================================