From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net To: John Bouyea Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 197 Date: 5/15/2005 9:00:18 PM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. RE: Sanding and painting the WAFs (Doug Rupert) 2. RE: Do not archive Xpndr cable (Doug Rupert) 3. RE: krnet (Stephen Jacobs) 4. Re: blah, blah, blah, blah, blah the old days (JAMES C FERRIS) 5. Re: RE: KR> krnet (flykr2s@wi.rr.com) 6. Nose Gear (Pitts Eric MSgt 181FW/MXOO) 7. WAFs - Keeping t light (Serge VIDAL) 8. Re: Nose Gear (Billywings36@aol.com) 9. Re: Nose Gear (Dan Heath) 10. Re: Nose Gear (Tlongcrier@aol.com) 11. T tails (Don Chisholm) 12. fuel costs (haroldwoods) 13. project update (Mark Langford) 14. blah, blah, blah, blah, blah the old days (Sean Caranna) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 01:09:51 -0400 From: "Doug Rupert" Subject: RE: KR> Sanding and painting the WAFs To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <000001c5590c$558b7690$7d04e440@office> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Good points Scott. I got lucky as my son works in s spring manufacturing plant and powder coats all my parts for me for nothing. Will have to test fit the bolt hole fit and ream to proper clearance prior to powder coating. I also sand all edges after part is cut to shape then run everything thru a buffing wheel attached to the bench grinder. Produces an almost chrome like finish and then it heads over for powder coating. May be overkill but since I get the coating done free I go for it anyway. One less thing to worry about in my mind at least. Doug Rupert Simcoe Ontario -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.10 - Release Date: 5/13/2005 ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 01:09:51 -0400 From: "Doug Rupert" Subject: RE: KR> Do not archive Xpndr cable To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <000101c5590c$57d4ca50$7d04e440@office> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" You put a KR thru the same daily pounding as a boat gets you've got bigger problems than a broken antenna lead. Doug Rupert Simcoe Ontario . It sounds like it would be a very remote possibility, but I have seen it more times than I can count in marine applications. Brian Kraut -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.10 - Release Date: 5/13/2005 ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 10:34:01 +0200 From: "Stephen Jacobs" Subject: RE: KR> krnet To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <000001c55928$de209b90$0864a8c0@stephen> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" sometimes things get off subject,some times subjects are flogged to death, but for the most part this is great to be able to communicate with so many people that are interested in what I'm keenly interested in. My accolades go to Mark L. and crew, I personally think you've got something real good going here +++++++++++++++ Agreed an seconded I did actually learn from the tool discussion - certainly much more than I learnt from endless yee haa's and months of countdowns. But then again, they were KR yee haa's and KR meet count-down Steve J ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 08:26:38 -0400 From: JAMES C FERRIS Subject: Re: KR> blah, blah, blah, blah, blah the old days To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20050515.082638.1940.0.mijnil@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Great to hear that you are getting ready to haule that time sucker to the airport. Jim sanford, Fl On Sat, 14 May 2005 21:51:55 -0500 "Mark Langford" writes: > Kevin Jarvis wrote: > > > So why do we stick with an antiquated email/digest system when we > can > > have a full blown multi-subject, multi-faceted forum. > > I did consider the Wings Forum when Sean first invited me to > moderate it. > In fact I WAS the moderator for a month or two. But there were > about 3 > posts during that time, and I found that I never even checked it, > and > certainly didn't do any moderation. > > > At first, Mark Langford sounded like he was very interested in > slowly > migrating > > both the KR and Corvair lists to the forums, but at some point it > appears > that > > he changed his mind. It was right about the time William Wynne > left the > > Corvaircraft list. > > I wouldn't say that I was ever "very interested". I did it > reluctantly on a > trial basis, and after the trial I decided not to do it. Part of > the reason > was that I'd asked 7 of KRnets oldest (and most internet savy) users > what > they thought about it. Their decision was unanimous AGAINST > changing over > to it. Part of the reason is that what we have works, and like > Michael > Gaskin says, archiving data would no longer be in my hands. As it > is right > now, I have every email ever sent to KRnet sitting on my hard drive > and > burned to DVD, and John Bouyea has another copy of it in his > archive. I > know what it means to have an internet company that you've trusted > all your > data to disappear one day. I saw it happen to a photo forum that I > was on > at one time. The users had all this time involved in setting up > photo > galleries, and one day they were gone, with no warning at all. And > I don't > see a problem with the KRnet archive search engine located at > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp . It does everything I > need for > it to do, and instantly. > > Another reason given by the seven was that there are a lot of folks > on KRnet > who have a hard time even reading and replying to email. Swapping > to a new > kind of forum would derail a large percentage of KRnet members until > they > could figure out what was going on. It just seemed needless. One > other > area that I wonder about is advertising and email address > harvesting. I > can't see somebody going to the kind of trouble Sean is investing > without > expecting to cash in someday somehow. I may be completely wrong > about that, > but I like the advertising free, no-cookies-required, "private" > KRnet email > list, and I want it to stay that way. I've seen way too many of > these sorts > of things start out as user interest groups, but eventually turn > into paid > mouthpieces for vendors and manufacturers. Not gonna happen to > KRnet. > > What finally did me in was when Sean sent a post to KRnet saying > something > like "I have a question for you guys, but you'll have to check the > WingsForum to see it". That cooked my goose, because he could have > just as > easily posted it to KRnet, but deliberately sent it to KRnet (or > maybe it > was CorvAircraft) to focus attention on the Wings Forum. I'd > already > decided that it made no sense to swap over at that point anyway, so > I asked > him to take me off the moderator list. And it simply doesn't make > sense to > have several different KR forums for everybody to check. We're all > right > here, and people know where to come to get KR building information. > > > As for the naysayers, and Mark L. has said that a majority of > users here > do not want a change, go to >Wingsforum, register and then snoop > around. > > Go right ahead. I've been there, done that, didn't see anything all > that > great about it that we haven't already worked around. > > > Yes Mark, I understand that you have built these lists from the > git-go, > that they are YOUR babies and I want nothing less than you and the > others > experts here to step up and moderate these details, but as for > email/digest > is passé and it's time to upgrade. < > > I didn't build either one of these lists from the git-go, although I > was on > them both from almost their inceptions. I eventually took them both > over > when the previous list-owners got tired of doing it (and I wasn't > real > thrilled about how they were being run anyway). Over the years I've > come to > the conclusion that I care too much about KRnet and CorvAircraft to > let > anybody else run either one of them. I like to be able to set the > tone and > keep things from getting out of hand. And on three occasions so > far, I've > thrown people off permanently for flagrantly violating the rules. I > don't > brag about being the owner, I just do the job. This particular > incarnation > of the list is a little clunky, but it does work. KRnet pays for > itself > out of voluntary contributions every few years (can't say the same > for > CorvAircraft though). > > Bottom line is that anybody that wants to go to the Wings Forum is > welcome > to it, or start you own KRnet. Matronix has one too, and it had > about 3 > posts on it last time I checked. But I'll still be right here in > the dark > ages of email lists. And what's the difference in me getting hit > by a > truck and Sean getting hit by a truck? End of discussion, as far as > I'm > concerned. Sorry, but I've got an airplane to get ready to haul to > the > airport... > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama > see homebuilt airplane at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford email to > N56ML "at" hiwaay.net > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 07:38:05 -0500 From: flykr2s@wi.rr.com Subject: Re: RE: KR> krnet To: KRnet Message-ID: <4d643d4d675d.4d675d4d643d@rdc-kc.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii The YeeeHaaaaaaa's and the countdown to the Gathering are pure motivational factors. It makes you want to build a KR. It makes you want to be at the KR Gathering. It makes you want to be a part of this KR family. Were you at last years Gathering? Last years countdown was credited as being one of the reasons last years Gathering was a record attendance with both people and KR planes. SO if you were not at last years Gathering, then you have 117 days left to decide to be with the best people in experimental aviation!!! Period!!! Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI ----- Original Message ----- From: Stephen Jacobs Date: Sunday, May 15, 2005 3:34 am Subject: RE: KR> krnet > I did actually learn from the tool discussion - certainly much > more than > I learnt from endless yee haa's and months of countdowns. But then > again, they were KR yee haa's and KR meet count-down > > Steve J > > > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 08:41:32 -0500 From: Pitts Eric MSgt 181FW/MXOO Subject: KR> Nose Gear To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <200505151341.j4FDfdIK006451@phantom1.region4.ang.af.mil> Content-Type: text/plain At one time I ran across the instructions on how make your own Nose Gear strut. But now have miss placed it. It told how to have it bent and what size tube to use, also how to heat treat the tubing. Does anyone know of this and where I can find it again? And yes I am going with a trigear. Eric Pitts Terre Haute, Indiana KR2S ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 15:49:58 +0200 From: Serge VIDAL Subject: KR> WAFs - Keeping t light To: KRnet Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Some of you may remember that I realized my WAFs had been done with all the lightening holes the same diameter. Well, I started recutting these holes as per plans, using a stepcutter. The benefit is no less than 12 grams per WAF, which gives me no less than 196 g for the whole aircraft (6.9 oz). Wow! That's the easiest weight saving I've achieved so far! Serge Vidal KR2 "Kilimanjaro Cloud" Paris, France ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 12:00:04 EDT From: Billywings36@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> Nose Gear To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <142.454f9cd7.2fb8cc04@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" the best thing to do is get in touch with dan dell in Jenks OK.he sells them complete ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 12:05:23 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) From: "Dan Heath" Subject: Re: KR> Nose Gear To: Message-ID: <42877343.000001.00348@DANHOMECOMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" That is: Diehl Aero-Nautical, 1855 North Elm, Jenks, OK 74037 (918) 299-4445 Manufacturer of wing skins, VW engine accessory cases, tricycle and conventional landing gear... This information came off the KRnet. See you in Mt. Vernon - 2005 - KR Gathering See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for building has expired. Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC -------Original Message------- the best thing to do is get in touch with dan dell in Jenks OK.he sells them complete ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 14:52:47 EDT From: Tlongcrier@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> Nose Gear To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <103.61687ff4.2fb8f47f@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Investigate the use of a BD 5 hydraulic nose gear. T ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 15:21:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Don Chisholm Subject: KR> T tails To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20050515192109.43117.qmail@web88011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Not long ago someone mentioned T tails if I remember correctly Harold Woods is doing a T tail setup. He's a subscriber to the krnet, if he's reading this and is comfortable in doing so, maybe he'd drop a note to the net and let us know about it ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 17:09:48 -0400 From: "haroldwoods" Subject: KR> fuel costs To: Message-ID: <00da01c55992$6dc2afe0$0501a8c0@HAROLD> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi Netter. My Franklin 120A that is going into my KR2M burns 3.5 Imp.Gal/hour. That is at max power. This is 3.5 x 4.5 = 15.75 liters per hour. Now you figure the rest, gasoline costs Ca $0.93 for 92 octane auto gas. That is US $0.76 per liter, Based on todays Canadian prices. When I was in Panama recently I found that the gas prices were about US $0.50 per US gal. or about US $0.125 per liter. Last month I was in Portugal where the price of regular unleaded auto gas was Ca$1.75 per liter. (US $ 1.44 per liter.) I did not check the price of high octane auto fuel. All of this when oil is about US$50. per barrel. My flying could cost me Ca$14.65 an hour for gas. How much does your engine burn per hour, Max? Gas prices can only go up. If some terrorist blow up the Saudi pipeline and supply is cut off for even a few months, the price of crude oil will hit US$100. per barrel.Then watch the price of gas go up. The reason that gas is cheap in Panama is that they dont tax it. We do . Europe really knows how to tax gas. In the near future we will have to use more efficient engines in our planes. Regards Harold Woods Orillia,ON.Canada haroldwoods@rogers.com ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 22:37:53 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: KR> project update To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <010701c559c8$a4dd1250$1202a8c0@1700xp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" KRnetHeads, I've taken the last two weeks off to do nothing but work on the plane, and if I have my way, I'll take this week off and maybe fly it before the week's out. In the last 14 days I've put 172 hours into the plane. I spent most of today wiring up the limit switch and DPDT switch for my flap motor. You ain't seen nothin' 'til you've seen 30 degrees of barndoor flaps on a KR! It takes four seconds to go from zero to 30 degrees using an RV flap motor. That ought to be fast enough. Most normal people would put the thing on a trailer, but being a lazy scud, I just removed the tailwheel and replaced it with the hitch from my Harbor Freight trailer. It took all of 2 minutes to hitch the KR to the Audi and haul it away on its main gear, although I'll admit that I never got over 35 mph on the 10 mile drive to the airport. See http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/05051551m.jpg for further amusement . These are "plane ports", the only thing available at MDQ right now. I'm starting out there because they have a 100' wide 5000 foot runway surrounded by fields, as opposed to Hazel Green (M38), which has a 40' wide runway that's only 2700' long (although that's where I'll keep it after I get skilled enough to get it in there). The wings are now stuck on it, and now all I have to do is rig the ailerons and I'll start taxi testing in the morning. The engine's running great and I've pretty much finished up all the little things on that punch list. I feel a YeeeeeeeeHaaaaaaaa comin' on... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net -------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 23:42:13 -0400 From: "Sean Caranna" Subject: KR> blah, blah, blah, blah, blah the old days To: Message-ID: <000201c559c9$3f685d70$6500a8c0@Warrior1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >I did consider the Wings Forum when Sean first invited me to moderate >it. In fact I WAS the moderator for a month or two. But there were >about 3 posts during that time, and I found that I never even checked >it, and certainly didn't do any moderation. One of the goals I had with the forums was to reduce what work was needed to moderate a forum. >I wouldn't say that I was ever "very interested". I did it reluctantly >on a >trial basis, and after the trial I decided not to do it. Part of the reason >was that I'd asked 7 of KRnets oldest (and most internet savy) users >what they thought about it. Their decision was unanimous AGAINST >changing over to it. Part of the reason is that what we have works, >and like Michael .Gaskin says, archiving data would no longer be in my >hands. As it is right >now, I have every email ever sent to KRnet sitting on my hard drive and >burned to DVD, and John Bouyea has another copy of it in his archive. >I know what it means to have an internet company that you've trusted >all your data to disappear one day. I saw it happen to a photo forum >that I was on at one time. The users had all this time involved in setting up photo >galleries, and one day they were gone, with no warning at all. And I don't >see a problem with the KRnet archive search engine located at >http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp . It does everything I need >for it to do, and instantly. I can easily set the forums to automatically send you a daily or weekly copy of the Corvair and KR forums' database. >Another reason given by the seven was that there are a lot of folks on KRnet >who have a hard time even reading and replying to email. Swapping to a >new kind of forum would derail a large percentage of KRnet members >until they could figure out what was going on. It just seemed needless. At the top of my list of reasons for creating http://www.WingsForum.com was that I was having "a hard time even reading and replying to email." topics and threads were always becoming disjointed and hard to follow. >One other area that I wonder about is advertising and email address harvesting. I >can't see somebody going to the kind of trouble Sean is investing >without expecting to cash in someday somehow. I may be completely >wrong about that, >but I like the advertising free, no-cookies-required, "private" KRnet email >list, and I want it to stay that way. I've seen way too many of these sorts >of things start out as user interest groups, but eventually turn into >paid mouthpieces for vendors and manufacturers. Not gonna happen to >KRnet. I do this because I love general aviation and experimental aircraft. My father is a pilot, I began flying with him when I was 7 years old; It is truly in my blood. After the Army, I attended Embry-Riddle for Aerospace Engineering. I am most interested in the KR and Corvair community because I have a pair of KR2S fuselage sides and a disassembled Corvair engine in my garage. It is clearly stated in the privacy policy that user information will never be used commercially, sold, or even given out. If I were interested in harvesting and email list of users on KRnet or CorvAircraft I would run a simple perl script that would replace " at " with an @. On http://WingsForum.com email addresses are NEVER divulged in any way. Users can email each other using private messages or a form based email that never reveals the recipient's address. The only advertising on the site are 2 google.com banner ads that do not use cookies and are unobtrusive. These ads don't really make any money but do cover my hosting and registration costs. >What finally did me in was when Sean sent a post to KRnet saying >something like "I have a question for you guys, but you'll have to >check the Wings Forum to see it". That cooked my goose, because he >could have just as >easily posted it to KRnet, but deliberately sent it to KRnet (or maybe >it was CorvAircraft) to focus attention on the Wings Forum. I'd >already decided that it made no sense to swap over at that point >anyway, so I asked him to take me off the moderator list. And it >simply doesn't make sense to have several different KR forums for >everybody to check. We're all right here, and people know where to >come to get KR building information. If this offended you, I apologize. This post was on the Corvair list and I linked to the forum because it had a picture of a cylinder with some broken fins that I wanted an opinion of. I figured that a picture was worth a thousand words and it would make it a simple matter for someone who knew the engine to visually assess. I made a similar post to the KR list about spars for the AS504x airfoil that in hindsight I should have just copied and pasted as it did not include pictures. >I didn't build either one of these lists from the git-go, although I >was on them both from almost their inceptions. I eventually took them >both over when the previous list-owners got tired of doing it (and I >wasn't real thrilled about how they were being run anyway). Over the >years I've come to >the conclusion that I care too much about KRnet and CorvAircraft to let >anybody else run either one of them. I like to be able to set the tone >and keep things from getting out of hand. And on three occasions so >far, I've thrown people off permanently for flagrantly violating the >rules. I don't brag about being the owner, I just do the job. This >particular incarnation of the list is a little clunky, but it does >work. You will still be able to manage, delete, edit, and ban users as you always have. You will run the Corvair and KR forums on the site. >KRnet pays for itself out of voluntary contributions every few years >(can't say the same for CorvAircraft though). I do not, and will not, ask for contributions. All cost are covered out of my pocket and by the 2 Google banners. >Bottom line is that anybody that wants to go to the Wings Forum is welcome >to it, or start you own KRnet. Matronix has one too, and it had about 3 >posts on it last time I checked. But I'll still be right here in the dark >ages of email lists. And what's the difference in me getting hit by a >truck and Sean getting hit by a truck? End of discussion, as far as >I'm concerned. If I'm hit by a truck you can have the site. I don't think I can take it with me. >Sorry, but I've got an airplane to get ready to haul to the airport... Now that's something that really matters! Happy Flying! Sean Caranna http://www.WingsForum.com ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 197 *************************************** ================================== ABC Amber Outlook Converter v4.20 Trial version ==================================