From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net To: John Bouyea Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 211 Date: 5/26/2005 9:00:19 PM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. ground effect (Oscar Zuniga) 2. accident (Oscar Zuniga) 3. Re: ground effect (larry flesner) 4. ground effect (Oscar Zuniga) 5. RE: KR Down (Dann Johnson) 6. RE: Engines (Jeff Scott) 7. Re: ground effect (Barry Kruyssen) 8. Mark Langfords cowling molds (Bob Glidden) 9. gel coated parts (Brian Kraut) 10. RE: welding retract gear (Brian Kraut) 11. Re: gel coated parts (jscott.pilot@juno.com) 12. Re: ground effect (larry severson) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 26 May 2005 07:57:23 -0500 From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR> ground effect To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Larry wrote- >I doubt that there is an airplane flying that can land without >experiencing ground effect. Wilga and Storch ;o) Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Thu, 26 May 2005 08:04:38 -0500 From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR> accident To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Larry posted- >The following is copied from the FAA data base for the KR involved in >the crash. >N-number : N684LM >Aircraft Serial Number : 7713 >Aircraft Manufacturer : MILLER MONTE M For those who didn't recognize the name, Monte Miller was the editor of the old KR Newsletter (print version). More recently, Monte has built and flown a nifty little Ragwing RW-1 "Ultrapiet" and I believe he puts out the Ragwing newsletter for all of the Roger Mann designs. Pictures of Monte's Ultrapiet are at http://jove.prohosting.com/ragwings/ under photo gallery. Of course, Monte sold his KR and was not flying it at the time of the reported crash. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Thu, 26 May 2005 08:04:11 -0500 From: larry flesner Subject: Re: KR> ground effect To: KRnet Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20050526080411.008cb260@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 07:57 AM 5/26/05 -0500, you wrote: >Larry wrote- >>I doubt that there is an airplane flying that can land without >>experiencing ground effect. >--------------------------------------------------- >Wilga and Storch ;o) >Oscar Zuniga ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ I doubt that even their wing is higher than half their wingspan above the ground. Close maybe, with little effect, but with all their highlift devices, I doubt they would notice it anyway. Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Thu, 26 May 2005 08:39:14 -0500 From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR> ground effect To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Larry wrote- >I doubt that even their wing is higher than half their wingspan above >the ground. Close maybe Span on a Wilga is 36'-6", making the half-span (one wing) about 18'. Half that wingspan is about 9'. Take a look at the chap standing next to the one at http://www.kiwiaircraftimages.com/pages/wilga8.html . If he's 6' tall, that wing is very close to being 8' off the deck, so it's pretty darn close (but the tail still flies in ground effect in landing configuration). It's an amazing aircraft. Nothing here for KRs; sorry... I've used up my "Friday privileges" and will shut up now. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Thu, 26 May 2005 10:49:23 -0500 From: "Dann Johnson" Subject: RE: KR> KR Down To: KRnet Message-ID: <20050526154923.0A4AE86B10@ws7-1.us4.outblaze.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Reading the FAA KR accident reports over past 5 years, it almost all went down to engine failures. The good news looked to be that mostly the pilots walked away with minor injuries. Motor mounts on my KR2 are currently for Great Planes VW, which sounded good to me before getting the corvair. Does anyone have statitics on how many KR2 / or perhaps other experimental craft that generally use VW, like the Sonerai that are flying with VW / or Covair vs "rea" airplane engines like Continental. Dann Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Kraut" To: KRnet Subject: RE: KR> KR Down Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 22:39:11 -0400 > > Good to hear he is doing O.K. Bob and Steve are not on KRNet, but > they are good people and regulars at Sun and Fun. > > Brian Kraut > Engineering Alternatives, Inc. > www.engalt.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: krnet-bounces+brian.kraut=engalt.com@mylist.net > [mailto:krnet-bounces+brian.kraut=engalt.com@mylist.net]On Behalf Of > Mark Langford > Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 3:07 PM > To: KRnet > Subject: Re: KR> KR Down > > > Jim Faughn wrote: > > > I was on the FAA web site checking it out for the first time and > > found a KR went down in Vienna GA. The registration number was 1701L > > and it showed an engine failure. Does anyone know what happened? > > Yep, Bob Lester. I heard from Steve Makish and William Wynne today, > and the bottom line is that his engine was running rough so he put it > down on a farm road. He hit pretty hard and broke both gear legs, > spars, and has little left but a fuselage. Bill Clapp and Glenda > helped him load it up and are hauling it back to FL now. Bob did a > little time in the hospital with a broken vertebra, but it out now, > and riding down with Bill and Glenda. No word yet on the exact engine > problem. > > My guess is that he will be back flying that plane sooner than we > think, knowing Bob... > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama > see homebuilt airplane at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford email to > N56ML "at" hiwaay.net > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html -- _______________________________________________ NEW! Lycos Dating Search. The only place to search multiple dating sites at once. http://datingsearch.lycos.com ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Thu, 26 May 2005 16:20:23 GMT From: "Jeff Scott" Subject: RE: KR> Engines To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20050526.092124.6963.169005@webmail17.lax.untd.com> Content-Type: text/plain I would take the 2004 KR Gathering as a sample of KRs that fly routinely and fly cross country. Someone can correct my numbers here if I'm off by 1 or two, but I counted 19 KRs that flew to the gathering. Of those 19 the engines were: 1 Corvair 1 3300 Jabaru 7 Continental (O-200, C-85, and A-65) 10 VW (Varying displacements including Type 1 and Type 4 engines) O Subaru O Lycoming What do I conclude from that? No question that there are a bunch flying with VW and Continental engines. No question there will be more Corvairs soon as they are the latest fad for an inexpensive engine with enough HP to make a KR perform. No doubt the Jabaru is a great choice, but expensive. Lycomings are pricey and generally too heavy for a KR. The Subaru fad appears to be over. Jeff -- "Dann Johnson" wrote: Reading the FAA KR accident reports over past 5 years, it almost all went down to engine failures. The good news looked to be that mostly the pilots walked away with minor injuries. Motor mounts on my KR2 are currently for Great Planes VW, which sounded good to me before getting the corvair. Does anyone have statitics on how many KR2 / or perhaps other experimental craft that generally use VW, like the Sonerai that are flying with VW / or Covair vs "rea" airplane engines like Continental. Dann Johnson ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Fri, 27 May 2005 07:48:47 +1000 From: "Barry Kruyssen" Subject: Re: KR> ground effect To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <05b101c5623c$b447eea0$f400a8c0@technologyonecorp.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I don't believe that the wing span is the determining factor. Take a glider with a 23 meter (75ft) wing span, there is no way your are in ground effect at 12 m (37ft) of the ground. Wing span, cord length, wing loading and spead must be in the calculation (guessing). Not being an expert, and not needing to the scinentific reasons, just nowing how to use it and/or deal with it is all I need know. :-) regards Barry Kruyssen Cairns, Australia RAA 19-3873 kr2@BigPond.com http://www.users.bigpond.com/kr2/kr2.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: larry flesner To: KRnet Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2005 11:04 PM Subject: Re: KR> ground effect At 07:57 AM 5/26/05 -0500, you wrote: >Larry wrote- >>I doubt that there is an airplane flying that can land without >>experiencing ground effect. >--------------------------------------------------- >Wilga and Storch ;o) >Oscar Zuniga ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ I doubt that even their wing is higher than half their wingspan above the ground. Close maybe, with little effect, but with all their highlift devices, I doubt they would notice it anyway. Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Thu, 26 May 2005 20:13:10 -0500 From: "Bob Glidden" Subject: KR> Mark Langfords cowling molds To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <039c01c56259$3fd32220$6501a8c0@ADMINISTRATOR> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Netters I now have Mark Langford's cowling molds,thanks to Dan Heath.Eric Pitts and myself are going to try and get done with them as soon as we can.I know some of you ask about them in the past,so here's the deal.If you think you are interested in getting them next email me off list and I will get back with you.Please email off list so we don't get 200 emails about this going.As soon as I know where they are going next I will let the list know. Bob Glidden Eminence,Indiana KR2S N181FW (building) Corvair 110 glidden@ccrtc.com ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Thu, 26 May 2005 22:46:44 -0400 From: "Brian Kraut" Subject: KR> gel coated parts To: "KRnet" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I am used to using UV Smooth Prime on all glass parts, but I have something a little different on my Midget Mustang. The premolded parts come gel coated. Does anyone know the recommended procedure for gel coated parts? Just scuff sand, use whatever primer is recommended under the paint you are putting on and paint? Or should I sand off the gel coat, Smooth Prime, then paint? I don't know if the blue gel coat that is on there is UV blocking or not. Oh, and how is this KR related? Simple, the Stang is half way painted and near ready to go to the airport. As soon as that happens I can get back to the KRs! Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Thu, 26 May 2005 22:46:47 -0400 From: "Brian Kraut" Subject: RE: KR> welding retract gear To: "KRnet" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" No. You can not weld 7075 by any method that I know of. Look at the Grove or Diehl gear. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces+brian.kraut=engalt.com@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces+brian.kraut=engalt.com@mylist.net]On Behalf Of phil brookman Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 6:30 PM To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR> welding retract gear can the retract gear be welded tig or something i intend to raise that plane to ge tthe thing out of ground effect that way i can think about landing it safely want to weld on the top braqcket another 4-6 inches , this goes under the spring bat btw. it will also put some weight onthat light tail wont retract any more but no problem i will just fair it in p ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Thu, 26 May 2005 21:32:51 -0600 From: jscott.pilot@juno.com Subject: Re: KR> gel coated parts To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20050526.213251.1808.0.jscott.pilot@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Brian, You can scuff and paint over gelcoat, but I would recommend using a good bonding epoxy primer as gelcoat does not seem to bond as readily as bare fiberglass. **Warning. The following is only my opinion!** I am not a big fan of gelcoat finish on airplanes. Gelcoat is relatively heavy, tends to develop surface cracks over time, which will come right through to become cracks in your paint, and adds no structural integrity to the part. It's my opinion that you will get a longer lasting finish by wet sanding the gelcoat off the glass. However, that's also a lot of work. I'm sure there are some good paint and body guys on here that have more experience with gelcoat than me. Jeff Scott On Thu, 26 May 2005 22:46:44 -0400 "Brian Kraut" writes: > I am used to using UV Smooth Prime on all glass parts, but I have something > a little different on my Midget Mustang. The premolded parts come gel > coated. Does anyone know the recommended procedure for gel coated parts? > Just scuff sand, use whatever primer is recommended under the paint > you are > putting on and paint? Or should I sand off the gel coat, Smooth > Prime, then > paint? I don't know if the blue gel coat that is on there is UV > blocking or not. > > Oh, and how is this KR related? Simple, the Stang is half way painted and > near ready to go to the airport. As soon as that happens I can get back to > the KRs! > > Brian Kraut > Engineering Alternatives, Inc. > www.engalt.com ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Thu, 26 May 2005 20:43:29 -0700 From: larry severson Subject: Re: KR> ground effect To: KRnet Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20050526204057.0184ae90@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 07:48 AM 5/27/2005 +1000, you wrote: >I don't believe that the wing span is the determining factor. Take a >glider with a 23 meter (75ft) wing span, there is no way your are in >ground effect at 12 m (37ft) of the ground. Wing span, cord length, wing >loading and spead must be in the calculation (guessing). > >Not being an expert, and not needing to the scinentific reasons, just >nowing how to use it and/or deal with it is all I need know. :-) Sorry, but in both my classes in Aero in college, and during my training as an airline pilot, ground effect starts at 1/2 the wing span. (Drag due to lift reduces by 1/2 at the 1/2 wing span height because the down flow off the aft part of the wing is cut off.) Larry Severson Fountain Valley, CA 92708 (714) 968-9852 larry2@socal.rr.com ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 211 *************************************** ================================== ABC Amber Outlook Converter v4.20 Trial version ==================================