From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net To: John Bouyea Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 213 Date: 5/28/2005 9:00:20 PM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. RE: vortex generators (Stephen Jacobs) 2. RE: spars needed for Bob Lester's airplane! (Brian Kraut) 3. Belly board mounting (Ralph H Snyder) 4. ground effect and stall speed? (Mark Langford) 5. Re: Belly board mounting (flykr2s) 6. Re: welding retract gear / Undercart Damage (phillip matheson) 7. KR Down (flykr2s) 8. Re: Canopy update (phillip matheson) 9. Re: Canopy update (phillip matheson) 10. A&P inspection (Lee Van Dyke) 11. Re: A&P inspection (Mark Jones) 12. A&P (Colin & Bev Rainey) 13. Stall speed (Colin & Bev Rainey) 14. Re: ground effect and stall speed? (Martindale Family) 15. RE: ground effect and stall speed? (Brian Kraut) 16. Re: ground effect and stall speed? (larry severson) 17. another flight (Mark Langford) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 28 May 2005 12:16:08 +0200 From: "Stephen Jacobs" Subject: RE: KR> vortex generators To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <000001c5636e$4bfbe940$d064a8c0@stephen> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" ok has anyone done it , they sound good sounds a lot safer to me with them ,i will even sacrifice some spped to get the stall down and quicker t/o ++++++++++++++++ >From my experiments (PA32) you don't need to sacrifice anything. VG's can help achieve different things, do enough reading and decide what your requirement is. I get mine from: http://www.mywebco.com/cci/ Good product and the lowest price. Take care Steve J ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sat, 28 May 2005 13:08:28 -0400 From: "Brian Kraut" Subject: RE: KR> spars needed for Bob Lester's airplane! To: "KRnet" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Bill, you never told me that they were for Lester's plane. I thought you were just building another set of wings for yourself. Helping a fellow KR pilot get back in the air cuts the price in half on the condition that you give Dean Cooper a ride when you come to pick them up. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Mark Langford Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 8:46 AM To: KRnet Subject: KR> spars needed for Bob Lester's airplane! Importance: High Forwarding this from Bill Clapp: A few weeks ago I left a message - looking for stock KR2 spars (centers would be nice too) and somebody in Jaxsonville FL had a set. Can you contact me at 229-834-8996 if you have a set available for sale or as a gift. I am trying to get a set for Bob Lester who destroyed his wing last week. We are pulling the center damaged spars out today and can build new ones but if somebody has a set it would save time and hassle. If you contact Steve Makish at SRMAKISH@aol.com and he can call me as well. I will be driving from Miami to Georgia this week and can stop by and pick up if close by otherwise I can fly my plane to wherever anybody has them and pick them up. This would be much appreciated by myself and Bob Lester. We would like to see him back in the air soon. His back was hurt in the accident but he is just on pain meds until he feels better. His body will be fine - just have to keep his spirits up and nothing helps more than working on your plane - right! Bill Clapp N41768 175 hours and counting.. ---------------------------------- I talked to both Bill and Bob the other night, and Bill is helping Bob get started putting his plane back together. Bill said he might stop by here on Saturday and give me some dual in his KR2S, so I might just be a little better pilot by Sunday. And I have a new ASI on order... Mark _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Sat, 28 May 2005 14:34:57 -0700 From: Ralph H Snyder Subject: KR> Belly board mounting To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20050528.143500.-42474163.0.ralphndori@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I want to mount the belly board between the front and rear spar. I can't mount it behind the rear spar because that is my luggage compartment. I searched 235 messages in the archives and only 2 were mounted ahead of the rear spar. One was 4" behind the front spar and the other was somewhere in between the spars. Has someone mounted it in between the spars? How well did it work, and how was the stability? Thanks for any information Ralph Snyder Burbank CA ralphndori@juno.com ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Sat, 28 May 2005 16:57:28 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: KR> ground effect and stall speed? To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <069901c563d0$3f79a010$1202a8c0@1700xp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Does anybody know if ground effect lowers your stall speed? I would think so, at least some small amount, but I don't know for sure. If so, how much? Thanks, Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net -------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Sat, 28 May 2005 16:54:49 -0500 From: "flykr2s" Subject: Re: KR> Belly board mounting To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <000701c563cf$e04a1a20$6401a8c0@markjones> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Ralph, Check out my system, It works perfect. You should really have it mounted to the rear spar for strength. The front spar is too far forward. mine is on the front side of the rear spar. Here is a link to my details. http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/bellyboard.html Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ralph H Snyder" To: Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2005 4:34 PM Subject: KR> Belly board mounting > I want to mount the belly board between the front and rear spar. I > can't mount it behind the rear spar because that is my luggage > compartment. I searched 235 messages in the archives and only 2 were > mounted ahead of the rear spar. One was 4" behind the front spar and > the other was somewhere in between the spars. Has someone mounted it > in between the spars? How well did it work, and how was the stability? > Thanks for any information > > Ralph Snyder > Burbank CA > ralphndori@juno.com > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Mon, 30 May 2005 07:58:52 +1000 From: "phillip matheson" Subject: Re: KR> welding retract gear / Undercart Damage To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <002701c56499$9a9d6f70$c7aa443d@Office> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original My Friend has a Standard KR2, he has over 6,500 hours on tail wheel aircraft, from Tigermoth to the odd Mustang, he is now eighty years old and still a full time instructor, But now he teaches for free. He has damaged is undercarriage twice now, the first time the owner that started his KR extended the short legs, and they broke on landing. The second only a few weeks back, his Aileron weight caught the grass on the edge of a very narrow strip and spun him around ( Note his aileron are on longer forward sloping arm that hangs below the wing in an effort to keep the weight of the mass balance down.) This time the landing gear bolts sheared off, but only very minor damage to a wing tip. This is a very strong little aeroplane, And Mark, even people with MANY hour can still have problems. Phil Matheson matheson@dodo.com.au VH-PKR ( Phil's KR) 61 3 58833588 Australia.( Down Under) See My KR2 Building Web Page at: http://mywebpage.netscape.com/flyingkrphil/VHPKR.html See our VW Engines and Home built web page at http://www.vw-engines.com/ www.homebuilt-aviation.com/ ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Sat, 28 May 2005 17:16:03 -0500 From: "flykr2s" Subject: KR> KR Down To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <004801c563d2$d5f6f220$6401a8c0@markjones> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Here is a more detailed report on the fatal crash in Louisiana. http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20050527X00684&key=1 Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI Web Page: http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj E-Mail: flykr2s@wi.rr.com ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Mon, 30 May 2005 08:35:32 +1000 From: "phillip matheson" Subject: Re: KR> Canopy update To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <00a501c5649e$d06d6dd0$c7aa443d@Office> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Well my Todd's Canopy is all but finished. I'm now working out how to fit the from hinges. Same hinge as Mark L. Question. Mark and others, My canopy now fits so well that the canopy sit on the forward deck, and I have many layers of cloth and Carbon fibre around the nose to deck area. My hinges seen fit best to the area of Carbon that is glass to the canopy Perspex and not the frame itself. Is it OK to have the hinge connect to this area? Or I could place the hinge on the front edge of the frame and sink the hinge into the front deck for clearance when it is closed Comments please !!!!!!! Phil Matheson matheson@dodo.com.au VH-PKR ( Phil's KR) 61 3 58833588 Australia.( Down Under) See My KR2 Building Web Page at: http://mywebpage.netscape.com/flyingkrphil/VHPKR.html See our VW Engines and Home built web page at http://www.vw-engines.com/ www.homebuilt-aviation.com/ ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Mon, 30 May 2005 08:47:01 +1000 From: "phillip matheson" Subject: Re: KR> Canopy update To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <00aa01c564a0$54173840$c7aa443d@Office> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original I forgot to ask, Can I drill and bolt the hinge through the frame and canopy, to save on extra build up of Carbon fibre to the hinge area?? Would the holes need to be larger than the bolts through the Perspex even when it is coated with C/Fibres and glass on both sides????? Phil Matheson matheson@dodo.com.au VH-PKR ( Phil's KR) 61 3 58833588 Australia.( Down Under) See My KR2 Building Web Page at: http://mywebpage.netscape.com/flyingkrphil/VHPKR.html See our VW Engines and Home built web page at http://www.vw-engines.com/ www.homebuilt-aviation.com/ ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Sat, 28 May 2005 15:54:26 -0700 From: "Lee Van Dyke" Subject: KR> A&P inspection To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <003d01c563d8$3395aca0$6601a8c0@SNAKEBITE> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Netters, I asked Mark for this but his computer crashed... I'm looking for a basic checklist for the A&P to look over as he inspects my plane. Does anybody have something like this??? Lee Van Dyke ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Sat, 28 May 2005 18:06:16 -0500 From: "Mark Jones" Subject: Re: KR> A&P inspection To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <006f01c563d9$da907340$6401a8c0@markjones> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Lee, My computer is being repaired and I hope we are able to save all the info I had on the hard drive. If so, I will get it to you soon. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI Web Page: http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj E-Mail: flykr2s@wi.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lee Van Dyke" > Netters, > > I asked Mark for this but his computer crashed... I'm looking for a > basic checklist for the A&P to look over as he inspects my plane. Does anybody have something like this??? > ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Sat, 28 May 2005 19:18:29 -0400 From: "Colin & Bev Rainey" Subject: KR> A&P To: Message-ID: <006901c563db$907017a0$c7432141@RaineyDay> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" There is a good one that is an example annual in Part 43 of the regs, that they are supposed to use for certified planes. If you do not have a copy of Part 43 you can either download it off AOPA, the FAA website or let me know and I will scan it in and email it. Colin ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Sat, 28 May 2005 19:24:34 -0400 From: "Colin & Bev Rainey" Subject: KR> Stall speed To: Message-ID: <008001c563dc$68f3a4c0$c7432141@RaineyDay> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Mark Yes it lowers the stall speed due to the reduced drag of the aircraft in ground effect as compared to a measured stall speed in flight say at 2000'. I stand corrected if someone finds it in print from a reputable source but I don't believe there is a set amount. It has a great deal to do with wingspan, proximity to the ground, the angle of attack it stalls at out of ground effect, etc... I would think that it is approximately 3 to 5 mph depending on the KR. This is best guess because I am not looking there when I am landing. Kinda hard to tell because your sink rate is beginning to increase just before, so you are flaring to control that for a 3 point and the wheel landing you just let it come on above the stall speed. Colin ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Sun, 29 May 2005 09:26:27 +1000 From: "Martindale Family" Subject: Re: KR> ground effect and stall speed? To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <001d01c563dc$ac06aa00$cfbd1fd3@athlon2400> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi Mark Mine actually lifts off at 37 knots in ground effect and will fly a foot or so above the ground however stall at altitude is at about 42 knots. I try not to rotate and climb until about 55 -60 knots and I figured if it climbs out at that then I can safely approach using the same numbers in my earlier flights. any slower and the nose gets really high affecting visibility. John The Martindale Family 29 Jane Circuit TOORMINA NSW 2452 AUSTRALIA phone: 61 2 66584767 email: johnjanet@optusnet.com.au ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Langford" To: "KRnet" Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2005 7:57 AM Subject: KR> ground effect and stall speed? > Does anybody know if ground effect lowers your stall speed? I would > think so, at least some small amount, but I don't know for sure. If so, how much? > > Thanks, > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama > see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford email to > N56ML "at" hiwaay.net > -------------------------------------------------------------- > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Sat, 28 May 2005 20:47:18 -0400 From: "Brian Kraut" Subject: RE: KR> ground effect and stall speed? To: "KRnet" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Mine would normally stall around 45 MPH at altitude. I have tried to stick the tail on landing before at 35 indicated feeling sure that it was way below stall speed and it just climbed right on up. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Mark Langford Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2005 5:57 PM To: KRnet Subject: KR> ground effect and stall speed? Does anybody know if ground effect lowers your stall speed? I would think so, at least some small amount, but I don't know for sure. If so, how much? Thanks, Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net -------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Sat, 28 May 2005 19:31:23 -0700 From: larry severson Subject: Re: KR> ground effect and stall speed? To: KRnet Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20050528193103.01888ca0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 04:57 PM 5/28/2005 -0500, you wrote: >Does anybody know if ground effect lowers your stall speed? I would >think >so, at least some small amount, but I don't know for sure. If so, how much? No, only drag. Larry Severson Fountain Valley, CA 92708 (714) 968-9852 larry2@socal.rr.com ------------------------------ Message: 17 Date: Sat, 28 May 2005 22:02:45 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: KR> another flight To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <06ce01c563fa$e3a348b0$1202a8c0@1700xp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Yes, I flew it again, and lived to tell about it. There are a few details at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/first_flights/subsequent.html ... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net -------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 213 *************************************** ================================== ABC Amber Outlook Converter v4.20 Trial version ==================================