From: krnet-bounces+johnbou=speakeasy.net@mylist.net To: John Bouyea Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 220 Date: 6/3/2005 6:34:19 PM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Painting Paino Hinges / Canopy Latches (Scott Cable) 2. Re: Re: KR > First Flight (Lee Van Dyke) 3. R?f. : Re: KR> Painting Paino Hinges / Canopy Latches (Serge VIDAL) 4. Painting Paino Hinges / Canopy Latches (larry flesner) 5. R?f. : KR> Painting Paino Hinges / Canopy Latches (Serge VIDAL) 6. Canopy Latches (larry flesner) 7. canopy latches (Don Chisholm) 8. the importance of an airspeed indicator. (haroldwoods) 9. Re: Painting Paino Hinges / Canopy Latches (Joseph H. Horton) 10. Re: the importance of an airspeed indicator. (patrusso) 11. Re: the importance of an airspeed indicator. (Jeff Scott) 12. RE: the importance of an airspeed indicator. (Stephen Jacobs) 13. landings (Mark Langford) 14. Re: landings (Orma) 15. Weight! * gulp* (wilder_jeff Wilder) 16. Re: Weight! * gulp* (Mark Langford) 17. Re: Weight! * gulp* (Boeing757mech1@aol.com) 18. good landings in kr (Flymaca711689@aol.com) 19. Re: Weight! * gulp* (Linda Warner) 20. Fitting a spinner (Dan Heath) 21. Re: Weight! * gulp* (wilder_jeff Wilder) 22. 500X5 wheels (larry flesner) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 21:00:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Scott Cable Subject: Re: KR> Painting Paino Hinges / Canopy Latches To: KRnet Message-ID: <20050603040015.1719.qmail@web53009.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Phil, I got mine from Avibank. They were 747 overhead baggage compartment latches. Cant remember the part number though. They were expensive. Phillip Matheson wrote: 1/ Did you have any problems with paint in the piano hinges when you paint the wings, My wings will be painted soon. Comments Please 2/ I can not find what I would call a good Canopy latch in the A/Spruce Cat. apart from Part # 05-0452. What are you using or comments please Phillip Matheson mathesonp@dodo.com.au Australia VH PKR See our engines and kits at. http://www.vw-engines.com/ http://www.homebuilt-aviation.com/ See my KR Construction web page at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/FlyingKRPhil/VHPKR.html Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html Scott Cable Jamestown, ND s2cable1@yahoo.com --------------------------------- Discover Yahoo! Find restaurants, movies, travel & more fun for the weekend. Check it out! ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 21:13:16 -0700 From: "Lee Van Dyke" Subject: Re: KR> Re: KR > First Flight To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <002e01c567f2$c1569270$6501a8c0@SNAKEBITE> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Not for this one but if you get it out of that crashed computer, would still like a copy. Lee ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 8:52 AM Subject: KR> Re: KR > First Flight > Congrats Lee. We want to hear that YEEEEEEEEHAAAAAAAAAAAAAA on your > next flight. I guess you do not need that pre-inspection check list > any longer. > > Mark Jones (N886MJ) > Wales, WI > Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT Site at: > http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj > > -----Original Message----- > From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On > Behalf Of Lee Van Dyke > Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 7:45 AM > To: KRnet > Subject: KR> First flight > > > Netters, > > Love to be able to tell your a great first flight story, but here is > what happened. Last night I made a couple of good runs down the > runway. Today I > made my first flight. To cut to the chase, taxied to the active, was > cleared to T/O and orbit the airport. Slowly added power to the plane > and > although it did not bark of extra horsepower, seemed to be accelerating > pretty good. I rotated at about 90 and started my climb @ about 95. > All > was going smoothly until half way through my first turn, the motor > started > to sputter alittle, I called the tower and they cleared me back to the > active direct. I completed my turn and the motor was getting worse. I > did > my check list (well as much as I could) and started to decent to the > runway. > I have read all kinds of stories about this same situation and I wanted > to > keet the airspeed in the green in case I needed it. Well I needed it. > Needless to say you are getting this message from me, so all went OK. I > made it back to the runway cut what was left of the throtle and made a > pretty good landing. The guys in the tower were impressed. I'm going > on > the cruise and will take a look at the Motor when I return. Although I > taxied back to the hanger and I was running pretty good, I need to do > more > full power testing. SO MARK L put my project from UNDER CONSTRUCTION > TO > > > > > > > > > > Mark Jones (N886MJ) > Wales, WI > Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT Site at: > http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 10:10:57 +0200 From: Serge VIDAL Subject: R?f. : Re: KR> Painting Paino Hinges / Canopy Latches To: KRnet Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" For canopy locks, I use Camlocks, and I am very happy with them. Although at some stage, I would love to make a single lock system. In case of crash, I'm scared of being trapped inside on ground with a few broken bones. Serge Vidal KR2 "Kilimanjaro Cloud" Paris, France "Phillip Matheson" Envoyé par : krnet-bounces@mylist.net 2005-06-03 05:44 Veuillez répondre à KRnet Remis le : 2005-06-03 05:43 Pour : "KRnet" cc : (ccc : Serge VIDAL/DNSA/SAGEM) Objet : Re: KR> Painting Paino Hinges / Canopy Latches 1/ Did you have any problems with paint in the piano hinges when you paint the wings, My wings will be painted soon. Comments Please 2/ I can not find what I would call a good Canopy latch in the A/Spruce Cat. apart from Part # 05-0452. What are you using or comments please Phillip Matheson mathesonp@dodo.com.au Australia VH PKR See our engines and kits at. http://www.vw-engines.com/ http://www.homebuilt-aviation.com/ See my KR Construction web page at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/FlyingKRPhil/VHPKR.html Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 07:02:18 -0500 From: larry flesner Subject: KR> Painting Paino Hinges / Canopy Latches To: KRnet Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20050603070218.0081d910@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 01:44 PM 6/3/05 +1000, you wrote: >1/ Did you have any problems with paint in the piano hinges when you >paint the wings, My wings will be painted soon. Comments Please Phillip >Matheson ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ I don't recall having a problem with the hinge during painting but you could run a strip of the 1/8" wide stripping tape on the top side for painting. Unless you saturate in with paint I'd think any film will brake loose after dried. Epoxy in the hinge, well, that's another problem entirely !!!!!! Have you considered the Rand latch for you canopy? Whatever system one uses, you should have a means of emergency opening from the outside by rescue personal and that should be clearly indicated. Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 14:14:43 +0200 From: Serge VIDAL Subject: R?f. : KR> Painting Paino Hinges / Canopy Latches To: KRnet Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hmm... Nice thought, Larry! I wonder how many flying KR2s have emergency opening from either the inside, or the outside? Serge Vidal KR2 "Kilimanjaro Cloud" Paris, France Have you considered the Rand latch for you canopy? Whatever system one uses, you should have a means of emergency opening from the outside by rescue personal and that should be clearly indicated. Larry Flesner _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 08:03:53 -0500 From: larry flesner Subject: KR> Canopy Latches To: KRnet Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20050603080353.008913c0@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >I wonder how many flying KR2s have emergency opening from either the >inside, or the outside? >Serge Vidal +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ I suspect you could count them on one hand, even after having lost a couple of fingers to the bandsaw!!! :-) I have an outside handle on my gullwing door and that was one of the writeup on my inspection. They wanted it labeled for "open" and "closed" for rescue purposes. It does not have an inside "lock" that needs to be undone first. I gave thought to having a closed "lock" but when my latching rods are inserted fully into the nylon locking blocks it takes a very positive force on the handle to open. So far it's not been a problem with any handle "creep" but I do keep an eye on the handle and it's in a location that is not easily "bumped". Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 09:38:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Don Chisholm Subject: KR> canopy latches To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20050603133856.2377.qmail@web88003.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 I copied my latch mechanism from a 2 33 glider but after the fact seen a similar idea in Sonerai 2 plans. This idea works on a swing over canopy. Basically it works on a spring loaded pin that inserts into a latch hole, you can get the idea from your standard door knob and latch plate. Mine has 2 pins that insert into 2 latch plates to lock my canopy down on my KR1, I retract the pins with 2 pins welded to the spring loaded latch pins on a T plane to the latch pins, 1 side of the T pin is inside the canopy and one side protrudes through the canopy fibreglass skirt through a slot and by squeezing the pins together retracts the latch pins from the latch plates and can be accessed from inside and out. With a little engineering this idea can be adapted to a flip forward canopy. As to my aileron hinges, my hinges screw onto my aileron spars with nut plates epoxied to the aileron spars on the inside and my hinges are removable ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 10:51:20 -0400 From: "haroldwoods" Subject: KR> the importance of an airspeed indicator. To: Message-ID: <000c01c5684b$b41220d0$0401a8c0@HAROLD> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi Netters. I enjoyed the opportunity to share with Mark his first flight in N56ML. At our last chapter meeting of the RAA in Barrie, We had a senior flight instructor talk about the absolute minimum instruments required for the teaching of flight to a student. In 1939 when World War 2 started, the Commonwealth Training Plan program called for the "taping over" of nonessential instruments.You were left with engine pressure and temperature,RPM, compass, altimeter and gas gauge. Notice that you never got "airspeed" until you had your first solo. You were taught to recognize attitude for takeoff , level flight and landings.They trained a lot of good pilots by this method. For a young pilot, it is better to keep your eyes outside the plane than inside it. You really get to know the feel of the plane this way. Regards Harold Woods Orillia, ON. Canada. haroldwoods@rogers.com ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 12:03:30 -0400 From: "Joseph H. Horton" Subject: Re: KR> Painting Paino Hinges / Canopy Latches To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20050603.120330.4348.4.joe.kr2s.builder@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Fri, 3 Jun 2005 13:44:03 +1000 "Phillip Matheson" writes: > 1/ Did you have any problems with paint in the piano hinges when you > paint > the wings, My wings will be painted soon. Comments Please > I removed the hinges completely and painted all the parts separately. Where I had used piano hinges for connections (cowl and forward deck) I cleaned the hinge so tape would stick, covered it with masking tape and then ran the point of a razor knife along the edge of the hinge that trimmed the tape and tucked it into the groove between the hinge and the structure it is attached to at the same time. You need to use a knife to remove the tape also or risk having the tape peel your new paint off. Taping for paint is an important part of the prep for painting. Being careful here will save aggravation when your done painting. Joe Horton, Coopersburg, PA. joe.kr2s.builder@juno.com ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 12:43:08 -0400 From: "patrusso" Subject: Re: KR> the importance of an airspeed indicator. To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <001301c5685b$531c8da0$65a772d8@patrusso> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Ditto,ditto and ditto. On my maiden KR flight, I did not use enough rudder, veering off to the right side of the runway, the right wing hit a traffic cone, ripping off the pitot tube, the cone then hit the horiz. stabilizer, tearing a rather large gouge in it. Oblivious to all this, I lifted off, saw no airspeed, so decided to practice my slow speed flying once at altitude, did a couple of touch and go's, really enjoying the flight, tho nervous has hell, then landed. All this on a very narrow and rough grass strip. Lord, that fiberglass is strong tho,...could have rippped the stabilizer off, or worse, the elevator. When it is repaired I will go to a real long and wide paved runway. I also will NOT do what one of our colleagues suggested, ie take off in the three point attitude. I think the accident could have been avoided, had I better visibility Embarrassingly anonomous! ----- Original Message ----- From: "haroldwoods" To: Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 10:51 AM Subject: KR> the importance of an airspeed indicator. > Hi Netters. > I enjoyed the opportunity to share with Mark his first flight in N56ML. At > our last chapter meeting of the RAA in Barrie, We had a senior flight > instructor talk about the absolute minimum instruments required for the > teaching of flight to a student. In 1939 when World War 2 started, the > Commonwealth Training Plan program called for the "taping over" of > nonessential instruments.You were left with engine pressure and > temperature,RPM, compass, altimeter and gas gauge. Notice that you never > got "airspeed" until you had your first solo. You were taught to > recognize attitude for takeoff , level flight and landings.They trained a > lot of good pilots by this method. For a young pilot, it is better to keep > your eyes outside the plane than inside it. You really get to know the > feel of the plane this way. > Regards > Harold Woods > Orillia, ON. Canada. > haroldwoods@rogers.com > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 17:22:24 GMT From: "Jeff Scott" Subject: Re: KR> the importance of an airspeed indicator. To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20050603.102320.681.112928@webmail03.lax.untd.com> Content-Type: text/plain There is one major difference here. In the case of training new pilots, you are using a plane that is already known to be rigged and flies correctly to teach a student how the plane should feel. In test flying a plane, you have no assurance that the plane flies correctly or is rigged correctly. Consequently, you want all the information you can get to verify how the plane is performing, especially on the first few flights. Typical first flights consist of getting to altitude, verifying operating parameters, practicing the skills needed to get down, and verification of the instrumentation that's going to help you get the plane back on the ground safely. If any one of those segments has to be skipped due to mechanical safety, or performance issues, the initial flight has suddenly become much more complex, as can be attested to by the recent experiences of Lee and Mark. This is one of the reasons why many pilots have a test pilot do the first flights for them. You'll note that in Mark's case, Troy had no real problems with Mark's plane, but left him with a comment or two about the pitot/static system. When Mark got in the plane, the same problem suddenly made flying the plane much more complex. That's not a commentary on Mark's skills as a pilot so much as the skills that Troy has as a professional pilot with a broad background of experience to draw on. If there was any one failing in Troy's post-flight, it was not emphasising to Mark that he needed to do something about his instrumentation prior to flying the plane. But in all fairness, it may not have been a big deal to him, so he may not have considered it to be a big problem for Mark either. Jeff > Hi Netters. > I enjoyed the opportunity to share with Mark his first flight in N56ML. At > our last chapter meeting of the RAA in Barrie, We had a senior flight > instructor talk about the absolute minimum instruments required for the > teaching of flight to a student. In 1939 when World War 2 started, the > Commonwealth Training Plan program called for the "taping over" of > nonessential instruments.You were left with engine pressure and > temperature,RPM, compass, altimeter and gas gauge. Notice that you never > got "airspeed" until you had your first solo. You were taught to > recognize attitude for takeoff , level flight and landings.They trained a > lot of good pilots by this method. For a young pilot, it is better to keep > your eyes outside the plane than inside it. You really get to know the > feel of the plane this way. > Regards > Harold Woods > Orillia, ON. Canada. > haroldwoods@rogers.com > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 20:46:54 +0200 From: "Stephen Jacobs" Subject: RE: KR> the importance of an airspeed indicator. To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <000001c5686c$a219e590$0864a8c0@stephen> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Notice that you never got "airspeed" until you had your first solo. You were taught to recognize attitude for takeoff , level flight and landings. They trained a lot of good pilots by this method. ++++++++++++++++ Jeez guys - Africa wants some Friday lea-way here. There was a time that they amputated legs without any anesthetic. They trained many good doctors then and also saved many lives - but that was then. Now we have flush toilets, ASI's and VSI's etc. Have a great weekend. Steve J PS I was surprised at the amount of visible flaps on 56ML (one of the recent photo's) - I presume that you are happy with the aileron authority Mark - thus a good balance on that short outer section. ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 14:35:47 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: KR> landings To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <002601c56873$714b86b0$5e0ca58c@net.tbe.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Jeff Scott wrote: >> If there was any one failing in Troy's post-flight, it was not >> emphasising to Mark that he needed to do something about his >> instrumentation prior to flying the plane. But in all fairness, it may >> not have been a big deal to him, so he may not have considered it to be a >> big problem for Mark either.<< Troy gave me a list of stuff he'd fix before I flew it, and I tried to deal with all of them. I "thought" airspeed would be fixed by unporting the static to the cabin, but I was wrong. Something I've learned since then is that no matter how screwed up your static system is, it won't mess up your airpseed indicator by more than 5% or so (at least that's what I'm told). I had a huge problem with the ASI itself (off by a factor of two), but didn't realize it. I still have static port problems, as my VSI is out of whack, as far as I can tell, so that still needs work or relocating. That's what testing is for, I guess. Earlier this week I learned that I don't even need a VSI anyway. My problems landing my plane were definitely my lack of flying experience and ability. Bill Clapp came up on Monday and we did about 4 hours of nothing but landings (his plane is as close to mine as anybody's ever built), and then on Tuesday we did another 4 hours, for a total of something like 40 landings! Only the last one was so good that we both let out a "YES" after touchdown. Much of my problem is that I was (still am, probably) a sloppy pilot with no time in anything nearly as high performance as a KR. Bill immediately pointed out that my patterns were small and low (Champ/Cub size), and that I needed a longer final to set things up. We went to a larger pattern 1000' AGL and it made a big difference in workload. And attitude (as Harold mentioned) is everything. I just wasn't used to attitude making much difference in the Champ. Bill showed me what the picture ought to be over the cowling in all phases of flight (pretty much the same), and generally gave me some piloting skills education that I never got before. He used to be a CFI, and it shows. And sure enough, once I'd done the pattern enough times, I didn't even need an ASI! Just keep the right flight attitude, and the landings took care of themselves. The education that he gave me probably (hopefully) will save my plane from the scrap heap. I don't know how folks who just crawl into a KR after flying Cessnas survive it, whether tri-gear or taildragger. But maybe that's just my lack of piloting skills talking again. Speaking of total screwups, it was nice to have Bill along when I was leveling off to pattern altitude on crosswind and the engine quit. I don't think I've ever been in an airplane with the engine turned off and the prop stopped dead in front of me before. That was pretty exciting! Larry's got nothing on me as far a pucker factor goes. I was clueless as to what had happened, and barely had enough time to utter "what the ___", when he reached over and pushed the mixture back in and restarted it. I had no idea I'd pulled the mixture back rather than the throttle, but he'd been watching me and wondered why I did that. I now have a whole different attitude as to how I'll react when something like that happens again (and the answer is...way slower than I previously thought). I now have a throttle that's not only a different color but a different type entirely (friction rather than button lock). I'll put it on this weekend if I have a chance, certainly before I fly it again. That's also something Troy didn't like about it, but I didn't fix that one. I'll probably fix it so that the mixture won't kill the engine too, since I turn my engine off with the ignition switch, rather than by leaning. As far as landing it goes, he had two secrets that really help a lot. One is to land on just one wheel, which makes it a lot harder to bounce, and the other is to immediately push the stick forward as soon as the first wheel touches (although that's standard procedure wheel landing any taildragger, I think). That, coupled with being under a controlled descent when flaring, made it a lot easier. The last few landings we did were with 7 knot crosswinds in choppy air, and I really didn't even notice the crosswind. We also went over the plane again and I now have another list of things to upgrade, mostly ergonomics. I'm happy to report that he and I fit nicely in my plane, which has only been stretched less than 3" at the shoulders. I'd highly recommend that others stretch theirs at least 4", since I'm a thin guy. Troy also proved that even though my seat is just about on the floor, his head was right under the canopy wearing my rather tall headsets, so there's another datapoint for tall folks, but it works fine for me. My canopy is 17.5" above the longerons at the tallest point (where my head is). Bill could probably be talked into helping others out, as his work schedule is pretty flexible. Just make sure you make it worth his time! Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 16:34:49 -0400 From: "Orma" Subject: Re: KR> landings To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <008301c5687b$b15c4ed0$0302a8c0@ROBBINS1> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original It is amazing how flying with someone that knows what they are talking about can help you form a visual picture that you otherwise would not see. Today I flew a Piper PA 28 for the first time in several years and flew from the right seat. The person in the felt seat was a CFI and was able to tell me what the visual picture of the panel should look like from the right seat. Without his help flying from the right seat would have been dangerous for me. Mark having Bill help was a good thing and will probably help you transition to your plane a little easier. Orma Southfield, MI N110LR Tweety, old enough to drink this year Flying and more flying, to the gathering or bust http://www.kr-2.aviation-mechanics.com/ ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 14:57:19 -0600 From: "wilder_jeff Wilder" Subject: KR> Weight! * gulp* To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hello all, I would like to introduce myself to the group before I get started. * smiles* My name is Jeff Wilder and I am from the Denver, Co area. I have receintly purchased a KR2 that was streched 14 in before the KR2S pans were avialble. The plane is currently about 60%-70% finshed. No motor, radios.. just the 90% finished hull and 70% finsihed wings. Its on fixed tri gear. Diehl wings w/ fuel tanks. I have a few questions about the weight... just about every posting I see, about weight, the plane is about 750lbs... once and awhile 500lbs or so.. . the question is this, I am 5'8" and 230 and on my way down to 180... I have wondered if this plane is going to be over weight just sitting fuled ready to go, before I even get in. ( the plane is one of the best incentives I have to loose weight ) Is the VW 2180 going to be enough HP at 8000ft air density altitude to get off the ground in the middle of July here in Denver. If I use a Corvair engine to develop the HP I am going to plan on another anoter 50-60 lbs once again, over weight. so if these planes are so heavy and already close to gross, how in the heck are realistically going to put 2 people in them and not be 1400lbs gross? Is there anyone here in Co, that I could have come look at my plane in the state its in... and give me a few opnions ( other then I'm ugly ) about the workmans ship of my ship. Thank you in advance, Jeff Wilder ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 17:03:10 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> Weight! * gulp* To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <087e01c56888$08036b90$1202a8c0@1700xp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Jeff Wilder wrote: > Is the VW 2180 going to be enough HP at 8000ft air density altitude to get > off the ground in the middle of July here in Denver. > If I use a Corvair engine to develop the HP I am going to plan on another > anoter 50-60 lbs once again, over weight. In my opinion, a Corvair with 50% more power than a 2180 VW will forgive a lot of sins in the weight department. Jeff Scott made an excellent post on this the other day. Check the archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp from Jeff Scott, and check out his post on May 26th, where he addresses high altitudes and big engines... Welcome aboard, Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net -------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Message: 17 Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 18:05:22 EDT From: Boeing757mech1@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> Weight! * gulp* To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" In a message dated 6/3/2005 2:59:05 PM US Mountain Standard Time, n56ml@hiwaay.net writes: Is the VW 2180 going to be enough HP at 8000ft air density altitude to get > off the ground in the middle of July here in Denver. He could always do a Bleeds off take off..................lol..................Just kidding!!!! Chris Theroux Gilbert, AZ ------------------------------ Message: 18 Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 18:06:35 EDT From: Flymaca711689@aol.com Subject: KR> good landings in kr To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <8d.284ecfd1.2fd22e6b@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" all this talk and no one has said a word about glides . to me I find power off works the best in most conditions on my plane also I like the corsair navy type approach that way you can see all way down . with me if I make the standard stabilized approach it seams harder to land with mine no flaps the dam nose is just to high that way. at 85 -90 mph nose is high the vsi is at 1000 ft min and your fighting the power setting trying to control the decent hell with that . go out and watch a pitts land and it may help with the Kr next time you fly . flying the pattern is just deferent in the Kr you will always be inside the other traffic or you wont make it if you lose the engine . congratulations to all the new Kr pilots yaawoooo . stop over controlling and just let it fly two fingers on the stick or you will go out the canopy in a up draft due to the death grip on the stick mac n1055a _flymaca711689@aol.com_ (mailto:flymaca711689@aol.com) Washington DC ------------------------------ Message: 19 Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 20:29:41 -0400 From: jaslkw@webtv.net (Linda Warner) Subject: Re: KR> Weight! * gulp* To: krnet@mylist.net (KRnet) Message-ID: <3472-42A0F5F5-472@storefull-3134.bay.webtv.net> Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Dear Jeff. Since this is friday...... Can't really help much on your questions about weight/power, but your being from Denver makes me think of a KR builder I knew when he lived in Ohio & had a KR2-S well along. He had a Cont 0-200 (two actually) ready to go on his. The last I knew of him, he was in the Denver area. If Joel Montgomery is on the net, or if anybody on here knows of him, please get in touch with me, or have him contact me. I would be very interested to find out if he is still in the KR movement & if he ever finished his. John Sickafoose Naples, Fl (239) 821-4396 ------------------------------ Message: 20 Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 20:29:49 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) From: "Dan Heath" Subject: KR> Fitting a spinner To: Message-ID: <42A0F5FD.000003.00400@DANHOMECOMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Well, I have finished fitting my spinner. I have documented the process just in case there are others who don't know where to start, as was the case for me. I first read Tony's Firewall Forward section on the spinner. There are some good tips in there, but he left out some stuff about lining up the bolt holes for the front bulkhead and how to align the spinner properly on the prop. This method seems to have worked, however, the proof is in the ....... ... http://kr-builder.org/Spinner/index.html and you won't even have to pass GO. See you in Mt. Vernon - 2005 - KR Gathering See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for building has expired. Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC ------------------------------ Message: 21 Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 18:49:06 -0600 From: "wilder_jeff Wilder" Subject: Re: KR> Weight! * gulp* To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Thank you Mark, I've spent many of hours searching through your site, I find it the best place for any information about the KR. Thank you for allowing me to gain the knowledge you have work for ... through a great assembled web site. I also realize that you have a Corvair engine... great looking plane. I only home that mine might look as well as yours does. What is the wet weight of your plane?... what was the installed weight of the FWF Corvair. If the gross weight is published to be 900, how does the effect of an additional 400 affect the flight charcteristics of the plane? I like the idea of having an additional 2 jugs... a little more HP... incase you have 1 or even 2 fail. I also like the idea of having the ability to go down to the autoparts store and paying 20 bucks for what ever part I need rather then paying 200 and waiting for a month to get basically the same part. But, I do worry about the fact that I am running an auto engine .. and not a type certified o-200. I'd like to run an O-200,but the cost shut me down in a hurry.. I dont have the 10-15K for a rebuilt engine. In building the craft, I have decided that I am going to build the plane that I want. I am not going to just install something, because it'll do for now. If its not right, its coming off, if its not what I want, its not going to be installed. I want to make sure I survive to raise my daughter. So I guess my question to you is, a 1200lb plane gross, designed for 900 lb gross, is going to be safe? -Jeff >From: "Mark Langford" >Reply-To: KRnet >To: "KRnet" >Subject: Re: KR> Weight! * gulp* >Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 17:03:10 -0500 > >Jeff Wilder wrote: > > > Is the VW 2180 going to be enough HP at 8000ft air density altitude to >get > > off the ground in the middle of July here in Denver. > > If I use a Corvair engine to develop the HP I am going to plan on >another > > anoter 50-60 lbs once again, over weight. > >In my opinion, a Corvair with 50% more power than a 2180 VW will forgive a >lot of sins in the weight department. Jeff Scott made an excellent post on >this the other day. Check the archives at >http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp from Jeff Scott, and check out >his post on May 26th, where he addresses high altitudes and big engines... > >Welcome aboard, > >Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama >see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford >email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net >-------------------------------------------------------------- > > >_______________________________________ >Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net >please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 22 Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 20:29:45 -0500 From: larry flesner Subject: KR> 500X5 wheels To: KRnet Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20050603202945.0081ec20@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I think my baby is going to like her new dancing shoes !! I've had the new wheels and brakes, 500X5 Clevelands that are replacing 600X6 Clevelands, installed since eariler this week but the weather has not been too good until today. I stopped by the airport this evening and rolled the KR out for a test flight. I taxied approx 3000 feet to the end of the runway and shut down in the runup area. I got out and checked for any fluid leaks and to see if the tires were showing any scuffing at that point. Everything looked good and the KR seemed to taxi fine also except I noticed the brakes seemed a bit soft. Never having used brakes for directional control and with enough brake to stop the airplane and hold it during runup I decided to fly. With my old tires that had uneven wear and gave me noticable tire scrubbing at liftoff speed, I was anxious to see how the new ones would perform. Acceleration was good and everything was feeling really smooth. As I sat there overjoyed on how smooth things were I realized I had just lifted off. I glanced at the ASI and it was reading 50 mph. I let the airspeed build and started the climbout. At altitude I lowered the nose and let it accelerate. The air was a bit bumpy so it was hard to tell if I've picked up any speed with the smaller wheels or not but it seemed to accelerate up to 155 mph indicated a bit quicker. If I were guessing I'd say I've probably picked up a couple mph. I quickly headed back to the airport to see if the landing and rollout would be as smooth as the takeoff. It was. Everything seemed to be working so well that I taxied back and went around the pattern again. When I got back to the hangar and checked the tires I still had all the little "spikes" on the tires that come from manufacturing. The only ones missing were on the spot where the tire touched down on landing and they were still there, just smashed flat. It would appear after approx 2 1/2 miles of rolling on pavement that they are running straight with no scuffing on the inside or outside. I guess I never realized how bad my old tires were getting and/or how they were probably mis-aligned. These new wheels/tires are SO SMOOTH !!! I tried to align the new wheels at zero toe-in as I did the first set but this time I did the alignment with the tail on the ground. The first alignment I did with the KR in a level attitude. Was that the difference? I'll probably never know. The biggest difference I noticed on the new wheels, besides how smooth they are, is that directional stability with the tail up seems to be more "neutral" now. It never tried to take off to one side or the other but it felt more "fluid" in handling, like I was balancing on a beach ball or something. It was like I could feel the gear legs flexing at my pucker muscle. I guess the slight vibration with the old wheels/tires was hiding that before and I'll probably adjust to it after a couple of flights. My overall impression was YEEEE HAAAA ! I'll add a bit of fluid to the brakes and get started on mounting the wheel covers so I can go chase Mooneys!!!! Larry Flesner ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 220 *************************************** ================================== ABC Amber Outlook Converter v4.20 Trial version ==================================