From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net To: John Bouyea Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 226 Date: 6/7/2005 9:00:34 PM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: 4130 steel (Donald Reid) 2. Re: Once again, Jeff has more questions (Mark Langford) 3. RE: Corvair with VW jugs (wilder_jeff Wilder) 4. Re: 4130 steel (Robert L. Stone) 5. Re: Corvair with VW jugs (Mark Langford) 6. Re: Corvair with VW jugs (Scott Cable) 7. heat treating (Joe Beyer) 8. EFI and larger head stuff (Colin & Bev Rainey) 9. Re: Corvair with VW jugs (IFLYKRS@aol.com) 10. RE: EFI and larger head stuff (wilder_jeff Wilder) 11. Re: EFI and larger head stuff (Mark Langford) 12. Re: EFI and larger head stuff (Mark Langford) 13. motivation (larry flesner) 14. Wanted KR2 (abby_lane@netzero.net) 15. Re: Aircraft Stripper (Ron Eason) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 09:43:39 -0400 From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR> 4130 steel To: KRnet Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20050607092350.01b3bbd0@mail.peoplepc.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 03:38 PM 6/6/2005, you wrote: >If I buy strips of 4130 steel of the correct thickness from Aircraft >Spruce, can I use them as they are to make WAFs, or is there any >treatment (other that surface treatment) that I must apply? You would get the steel in a Normalized (N) condition. After the milling process, the steel is raised to approximately 100 degrees F above its critical temperature and then allowed to cool in still air ( meaning slowly). The critical temperature is where the steel is no longer magnetic. It relieves the milling stresses and helps prevent subsequent failure. My generic reference manual, Marks' Standard Handbook For Mechanical Engineers, does not list 4130, but the typical temperature for carbon steel is 1500-1700 degrees F. Annealing temperature is typically lower by 100 to 500 degrees. If you can hold the steel in your bare hand while you are making your part(s), then the you have not caused any significant heat related change in the mechanical properties of the steel. If you do get it too hot to hold, then let it cool slowly in still air and it will be fine. Don Reid - donreid "at" peoplepc.com Bumpass, Va Visit my web sites at: AeroFoil, a 2-D Airfoil Design And Analysis Computer Program: http://aerofoilengineering.com KR2XL construction: http://aerofoilengineering.com/KR/KR2XL.htm Aviation Surplus: http://aerofoilengineering.com/PartsListing/Airparts.htm EAA Chapter 231: http://eaa231.org Ultralights: http://usua250.org VA EAA State Fly-in: http://vaeaa.org ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 11:05:07 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> Once again, Jeff has more questions To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <00a001c56b7a$acff45c0$5e0ca58c@net.tbe.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Jeff Wilder wrote: > 2. Does anyone have any information about building them to 3100 CC > using > the > VW jugs. The page at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/corvair/3100.html and the links from there should answer just about anything. > 3. Does anyone know if WW booklet describes building them out wiht the > VW jugs. My copy of the William Wynne manual just mentions that the 3100cc option is possible, and that's about it. Otherwise, his manual is indispensible if you are going to build a Corvair, and since leadtime is an issue on anything ordered from WW, order it soon. It's the most important thing you need to build a Vair engine. Like Colin said, the 3100cc engine is a large effort, with lots of places to go wrong. I think at a minimum you add 32 different places where subpar machine work can screw it up, so I'd only let Ray Sedman, Jeff Ballard, or Wheelerizing actually do the machine work, and even then, you still need to do a lot of checking and measuring. As you can see from my 3100cc webpage, this is not for first time engine builders that are in a hurry to get flying. If you are really interested in building a Corvair engine, you should join the CorvAircraft list by sending an email to corvaircraft-join@mylist.net . I'd be tempted to stick to the 2.7 liter engine, personally, even though I DO enjoy a challange... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 10:20:48 -0600 From: "wilder_jeff Wilder" Subject: RE: KR> Corvair with VW jugs To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed The reason I was looking at the 3100 was not because of the HP but more of the power and grunt at lower RPM's in addition to the 9 LBS savings using the VW jugs. Mark, now that you have a little time on your ship, how many gallons per hour are you burning? IF you had it to do over, would you still run with a 3100? Does anyone have EFI running on a Corvaircraft, for the fuel savings? I believe that with EFI, you will not be needing carb heat as well? -Jeff >From: "Colin & Bev Rainey" >Reply-To: KRnet >To: >Subject: KR> Corvair with VW jugs >Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 03:13:04 -0400 > >Jeff >If you are not VERY motor experienced than I would stick to the basic >2700 >cc or 164 CID Corvair and be able to count on the reliability. If you don't >have a very good reason for building the extra power in (i.e. heavy plane >750# or better empty etc...) than the basic 164 will be just fine. If you >really want more out of it, I would add a PSRU on the front before going >through what Mark went through to get 3100 cc. You make it so that there >are so many small details that can go wrong that will ruin all your hard >work, and if you really need the performance, I personally believe you will >shorten the life of the Corvair by asking it to give you more. Basic rule >of drag racing, higher revs, run harder, shorter life. > >Another option is to wait until WW finished the evals on the new turbo >install and copy that. That will allow you to use the basic engine and get >the extra from the addition of the turbo. > >Just my opinion.... > >Colin >KSFB >_______________________________________ >Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net >please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 12:32:39 -0500 From: "Robert L. Stone" Subject: Re: KR> 4130 steel To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <003901c56b86$e8c37340$5d817646@yourat5qgaac3z> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Netheads, The following statement by Don Reid is the best advice I have ever seen when it comes to using a band saw for cutting to the proper length or a grinder for rounding corners. "If you can hold the steel in your bare hand while you are making your part(s), then the you have not caused any significant heat related change in the mechanical properties of the steel." I have no answer except go very slow and dip the part in water often. When it comes to drilling the holes, I used the following method. Fill a small pan with water and put about a 5 inch length of 2" X 4" wood block in the pan. Lay the part to be drilled in the block and push the block and part down so you can do the drilling with the part under water. The part needs to be only about 1/2 inch under. Using this method it is easy to control the tempture of the part being drilled and if the water starts to warm up, put in some ice cubes. The part being drilled should never get so hot that you cannot hold it with your bare hand so the temper properties will remain the same. Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx rstone4@hot.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donald Reid" To: "KRnet" Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 8:43 AM Subject: Re: KR> 4130 steel > At 03:38 PM 6/6/2005, you wrote: >>If I buy strips of 4130 steel of the correct thickness from Aircraft >>Spruce, can I use them as they are to make WAFs, or is there any >>treatment (other that surface treatment) that I must apply? > > You would get the steel in a Normalized (N) condition. After the > milling process, the steel is raised to approximately 100 degrees F > above its critical temperature and then allowed to cool in still air ( > meaning slowly). The critical temperature is where the steel is no > longer magnetic. It relieves the milling stresses and helps prevent > subsequent failure. My generic reference manual, Marks' Standard > Handbook For Mechanical Engineers, does not list 4130, but the typical > temperature for carbon steel is 1500-1700 degrees F. Annealing > temperature is typically lower by 100 to 500 degrees. > > If you can hold the steel in your bare hand while you are making your > part(s), then the you have not caused any significant heat related > change in the mechanical properties of the steel. If you do get it > too hot to hold, then let it cool slowly in still air and it will be > fine. > > > > Don Reid - donreid "at" peoplepc.com > Bumpass, Va > > Visit my web sites at: > > AeroFoil, a 2-D Airfoil Design And Analysis Computer Program: > http://aerofoilengineering.com > > KR2XL construction: http://aerofoilengineering.com/KR/KR2XL.htm > Aviation Surplus: > http://aerofoilengineering.com/PartsListing/Airparts.htm > EAA Chapter 231: http://eaa231.org > Ultralights: http://usua250.org > VA EAA State Fly-in: http://vaeaa.org > > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 12:44:23 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> Corvair with VW jugs To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <005801c56b88$9149bbe0$1202a8c0@1700xp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > The reason I was looking at the 3100 was not because of the HP but > more of the power and grunt at lower RPM's in addition to the 9 LBS > savings using the VW jugs. I think the real number is closer to 5 pounds. > Mark, now that you have a little time on your ship, how many gallons > per hour are you burning? That's hard to say, since most of my time has been touch and goes, with no long distance travel (I'm limited to 40 mile travel distance until the 40 hours is flown off. >IF you had it to do over, would you still run with a > 3100? Probably, but I wouldn't recommend it to mere mortals. A few weeks ago I had dragged out my spare 95 hp engine and was very close to rebuilding it as a 2700cc engine, if that gives you a clue. I could go either way... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 11:07:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Scott Cable Subject: Re: KR> Corvair with VW jugs To: KRnet Message-ID: <20050607180753.18927.qmail@web53008.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Mark, Remember that discussion we had just over a year ago, in which you re-ran your desktop dyno using 140 hp valve sizes? If I remember correctly, there was a significant gain in torque and horsepower, throughout the rpm range. It also rendered a flatter peak torque curve, also right at the peak of the usable rpm range. Since any engine is basicly an air pump, it makes sense that if you increase the displacement of the pump, you should also increase the breathing capacity (valve size) accordingly, so putting 140 hp size stainless steel valves and new deep valve seats would be my first consideration. Mark Langford wrote: > The reason I was looking at the 3100 was not because of the HP but > more of the power and grunt at lower RPM's in addition to the 9 LBS > savings using the VW jugs. >IF you had it to do over, would you still run with a > 3100? Probably, but I wouldn't recommend it to mere mortals. A few weeks ago I had dragged out my spare 95 hp engine and was very close to rebuilding it as a 2700cc engine, if that gives you a clue. I could go either way... Scott Cable Jamestown, ND s2cable1@yahoo.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 16:23:58 -0700 From: "Joe Beyer" Subject: KR> heat treating To: Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" When heat treating, pre heat an electric oven to about 450 deg. F. use an magnet held in one hand and heat the part up with an acetylene torch until the part becomes non magnetic. Put it into the oven and turn it off. Let it cool gradually. -Joe Message: 7 Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 00:27:08 -0400 From: "Brian Kraut" Subject: RE: KR> 4130 steel To: "KRnet" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I am not an expert on this, but I believe that you heat to a dull red to normalize. ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 19:36:25 -0400 From: "Colin & Bev Rainey" Subject: KR> EFI and larger head stuff To: Message-ID: <008b01c56bb9$b8d2ed40$c7432141@RaineyDay> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Those who have heard it before I am repeating so bear with me. Jeff and all netters reading: There is NO FUEL ECONOMY savings with fuel injection! You are only changing the way that the fuel is delivered and its accuracy, so it helps in overall horsepower and torque, but does not make ANY better fuel economy. To get the increases people are used to seeing advertised with fuel injection requires additional spark advance at appropriate time, and more exact fuel metering than we are talking about in aviation. This requires a feedback computer system to make this possible and has been much discussed here, so I will not go there with this post. Throttle body heat IS necessary for fuel injection in the off chance that conditions do occur that cause icing around the throttle plate. On certified aircraft you will see alternate air, which is heated to handle this possibility. Autos avoid this necessity by providing coolant heat at the throttle body, and by designing the engine to operate at a higher temp of 195-205 regulated by a water thermostat. Most still have some form of heated air on startup, or throttle warming. This is because the best mix of fuel and air occurs at a warm temperature, so too cold allows the fuel to condense on intake walls and separate, which is why so many use port fuel injection to avoid this. Stick to carbs: much more simple and easy. The pattern to follow is already there.... Scott, in William Wynne's book he evaluates the 140, 160 & 180 horsepower heads and finds that although they provide the proper increase in performance for cars; in the ranges of rpms, and use in direct drive applications are bad to use in planes. They increased quench area which can lead to detonation, and larger valves actually cause a DECREASE in performance at lower rpms, in favor of rpms over 3000, so that it is not practical for us. Larger valves will not increase lower rpm performance due to the drop in vacuum signal to the intake, so it will take higher rpms to get the power increase. Same with bigger exhaust. Increase is only realized above the rpms where we intend to use the plane/engine. Doug Roe makes a great case for this by running his competition Camaro on first a 650 cfm carb, and then an 850 cfm carb, and was faster on the 650. More air is good to a point; if the velocity of that air drops below a certain point, no performance increase is realized in lower rpms, but are in upper. This why the OT10 cam works better than all others: they stay closer to stock with duration and increase lift, while others try to increase both which actually cause a loss in power in the lower rpms in favor of the upper end. A quick look at the Summit Racing Catalog on cams will show the effective rpms for cams designed with more lift AND duration. Colin KSFB ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 21:09:07 EDT From: IFLYKRS@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> Corvair with VW jugs To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <19e.35040f08.2fd79f33@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" For those interested in the corvair - stick with what is proven and works well. Your will be happier in the long run to have an airplane in the air in a shorter amount of time with a LOT less money and hassle. Once you are flying then build your 3100 or turbo or whatever and modify a tested and flying platform. It is the safer route to take. Im sure Ive put more hours and flown to more places behind my $2000 2700cc Corvair than ANYBODY has behind anything modified. Im more than happy with the performance and the costs of repair and maintenance are negligable. Im working on a turbo setup but I can keep flying until it is ready and then only have the plane down a couple days for the conversion. Get WW manual - follow it and you cant go wrong. Bill Clapp and N41768 181 hours.....maybe going to IL. this weekend for a flyin ---- ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 19:13:47 -0600 From: "wilder_jeff Wilder" Subject: RE: KR> EFI and larger head stuff To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Thank you for the great information... you and the team at KRNET have really educated me as to the best practices. I am not trying to reinvent the wheel, but simply get the best bang for the buck so to speak. I am on a very limited budget and do not want to make the mistake of having to re-rebuild an engine because I didnt get enough horse power or didnt make the right decision in the first place. Lessons learned as of date: 1. leave the plane as designed, its not broke so dont try to fix it or re-engineer it. 2. the road is already paved in RE: to engines, do not try to go outside the scope of my abilities without expecting the loss of reliablity. Stay the path. 3. While the plane only calls for 80HP... even at altitudes 100 should be MORE then I'll ever need to turn my bird into a little rocket. 4. This plane is going to cost me more then what I wanted to spend on it, because of everything I want to do with it... ( cost does not always = $$ ) Lots of hidden costs 5. A 750 LBS KR.. is ok... 6. The people of the KR community are about the nicest, most helpfull people I have ever had the opportunity to speak with! Thank you for all the information. If anyone ever needs help in the infomation technologies field... or IT security... Please let me know.. I want to be able to return back what I have been given.. but alas I have limited information on the plane, so I offer what I have. Thank! jeff >From: "Colin & Bev Rainey" >Reply-To: KRnet >To: >Subject: KR> EFI and larger head stuff >Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 19:36:25 -0400 > >Those who have heard it before I am repeating so bear with me. > >Jeff and all netters reading: There is NO FUEL ECONOMY savings with >fuel >injection! You are only changing the way that the fuel is delivered and >its accuracy, so it helps in overall horsepower and torque, but does not >make ANY better fuel economy. To get the increases people are used to >seeing advertised with fuel injection requires additional spark advance at >appropriate time, and more exact fuel metering than we are talking about in >aviation. This requires a feedback computer system to make this possible >and has been much discussed here, so I will not go there with this post. >Throttle body heat IS necessary for fuel injection in the off chance that >conditions do occur that cause icing around the throttle plate. On >certified aircraft you will see alternate air, which is heated to handle >this possibility. Autos avoid this necessity by providing coolant heat at >the throttle body, and by designing the engine to operate at a higher temp >of 195-205 regulated by a water thermostat. Most still have some form of >heated air on startup, or throttle warming. This is because the best mix >of fuel and air occurs at a warm temperature, so too cold allows the fuel >to condense on intake walls and separate, which is why so many use port >fuel injection to avoid this. > >Stick to carbs: much more simple and easy. The pattern to follow is >already >there.... > > >Scott, in William Wynne's book he evaluates the 140, 160 & 180 >horsepower >heads and finds that although they provide the proper increase in >performance for cars; in the ranges of rpms, and use in direct drive >applications are bad to use in planes. They increased quench area which can >lead to detonation, and larger valves actually cause a DECREASE in >performance at lower rpms, in favor of rpms over 3000, so that it is not >practical for us. Larger valves will not increase lower rpm performance >due to the drop in vacuum signal to the intake, so it will take higher rpms >to get the power increase. Same with bigger exhaust. Increase is only >realized above the rpms where we intend to use the plane/engine. Doug Roe >makes a great case for this by running his competition Camaro on first a >650 cfm carb, and then an 850 cfm carb, and was faster on the 650. More air >is good to a point; if the velocity of that air drops below a certain >point, no performance increase is realized in lower rpms, but are in upper. >This why the OT10 cam works better than all others: they stay closer to >stock with duration and increase lift, while others try to increase both >which actually cause a loss in power in the lower rpms in favor of the >upper end. A quick look at the Summit Racing Catalog on cams will show the >effective rpms for cams designed with more lift AND duration. > >Colin >KSFB >_______________________________________ >Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net >please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 21:43:41 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> EFI and larger head stuff To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <008b01c56bd3$e83bc5b0$1202a8c0@1700xp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > 1. leave the plane as designed, its not broke so dont try to fix it or > re-engineer it. Make the fuselage wider, no matter what else you do, or you'll have to saw your passenger's arm off at the shoulder, or get used to having it around your neck. That is one change that is absolutely necessary to any KR2S built "per the plans", if you plan to carry a passenger more than a few times a year... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net -------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 22:07:16 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> EFI and larger head stuff To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <009101c56bd7$33bde1f0$1202a8c0@1700xp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" And I should have added to make the widest point of the fuselage at the shoulders, not at the knees as shown in the plans. This not only makes ergonomic sense, but aerodynamic sense as well, as the widest part of the fuselage should be close to the trailing edge of the wing for minimum drag. Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net -------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 22:06:17 -0500 From: larry flesner Subject: KR> motivation To: KRnet Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20050607220617.00911ce0@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" If any of you builders need some motivation, go rent an airplane and get some time in right before sunset when the air is so calm it's like flying a flight simulator with real world graphics. AWSOME !! Most of my time in the KR lately has been in the bumpy daytime air with crosswinds. This evening I went out and played a bit before leaving town for five days. I was doing wingovers, pull-ups with pushovers to zero g's, circling approachs at idle from 2500 feet, landing one direction, taking off the other, doing cotton patch turns at 500 feet and right back in to land. The KR is ONE SWEET FLYING MACHINE !!!!! 145 hours and still grinnin'............... After an 8 way gps run this evening, my "official position" on the speed increase on switching from 600X6 back to 500X5 wheels is that I gained 3 mph in the 155 to 160 mph range. Oh yea, when playing around the airport at 2500 I saw an aircraft approaching. When it got close it looked like a DC3. I did a quick 180 and tried to do an intercept. I was about 1/4 mile behind and couldn't catch it but it was not pulling away either. I gave up after a few miles, locked the guns [ :-) ] and headed back to home base. HOW GOOD CAN IT GET ????????? Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 03:20:19 GMT From: "abby_lane@netzero.net" Subject: KR> Wanted KR2 To: KRnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20050607.202045.22320.6245@webmail17.lax.untd.com> Content-Type: text/plain Thanks for the reminder Australia, I'm located in NE Florida and still interested in a KR2 Tri-gear. ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 22:23:43 -0500 From: "Ron Eason" Subject: Re: KR> Aircraft Stripper To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <002301c56bd9$79c02d00$6501a8c0@CADENGINEERING> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original I would try compressed air blasting with baking soda their is some auto here in the KC area that do it that way we/of damage to the fiberglass. I seen it done. KRron ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "KRnet" Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 11:05 PM Subject: KR> Aircraft Stripper > > Is it safe to use aircraft stripper on a KR to remove old paint or > will it > damage the T-88 or make the epoxy break loose from the wood? It would > really save me some time if I could use it. > > Steve Henderson > St. Louis, MO > KR1 > sph12@sbcglobal.net > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 226 *************************************** ================================== ABC Amber Outlook Converter v4.20 Trial version ==================================