From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net To: John Bouyea Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 238 Date: 6/17/2005 9:00:14 PM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: glide rato.. (Al Friesen) 2. Re: glide rato.. (Jeff Scott) 3. painting WAFs. (haroldwoods) 4. power off landings (Joe Beyer) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 12:28:52 -0800 From: "Al Friesen" Subject: Re: KR> glide rato.. To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <003501c5737b$2d739b90$8bf451cf@alk1e9f7i3pcg3> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original All, I have been told in the hangar group that my VW Revmaster is way too tight. All the conts and lyks are easier to turn over than my VW. Any come backs on these Spam can guys. ? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Golden, Kevin" To: "'KRnet'" Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 7:15 AM Subject: RE: KR> glide rato.. >A windmilling prop does more than disturb air over the airframe. A >windmilling prop will cause a huge amount of drag that is NEAR equal to >the rotational disc of the prop. > > Not to worry. I haven't seen a VW or corvair windmill. Lycoming and > Continentals will. > > Kevin. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dennis Mingear [mailto:dennismingear@yahoo.com] > Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 9:02 AM > To: KRnet > Subject: Re: KR> glide rato.. > > If the prop stops in a horizontal position it will > disturb the airflow over the wing, making it seem > smaller than it actually is, this will reduce the > planes L/D. > > If the prop stops vertically the airflow over the wing > is not disturbed and you have more effective wing > area, producing more lift, which improves the planes > L/D. > > If the prop is windmilling it is intermittantly > disturbing the airflow over the wing which is hurting > the wings ability to produce lift and hurting the > planes L/D. > > Denny ... > > --- "Kenneth B. Jones" wrote: > >> Perhaps the stopped prop is less drag because it's >> stalled. >> >> Below is data taken from my flight test. My idle >> setting was about 800 to >> 900 rpm, a little high, at the time. Speeds are >> indicated knots. My plane >> stalls at about 50 knots indicated so I didn't check >> the glide below 60 kts. >> Surely the ratio will start back the other way >> before it stalls. I have a >> KR-2 with Diehl wings, 3 blade Warp drive taper >> blade 58" prop set at 19.5 >> degrees at the tip, A65, empty weight is 623 lbs., >> full fuel is 14 gal and I >> weigh about 180. >> >> Glide >> Speed Descent Distance Glide >> kts ft/min NM/1000 ft. Ratio >> 60 400 2.50 15.18 >> 65 442.5 2.45 12.93 >> 70 525 2.22 11.73 >> 75 625 2.00 10.56 >> 80 750 1.78 9.39 >> 85 800 1.77 9.35 >> 90 900 1.67 8.80 >> 95 1100 1.44 7.60 >> 100 1500 1.11 5.87 >> >> >> BTW, Bill's 2.5 miles per 1000 ft altitude is a >> glide ratio of 13.2 : 1 (if >> I calculated correctly). >> >> Ken Jones, kenbjones@cinci.rr.com >> Sharonville, OH >> N5834, aka The Porkopolis Flying Pig >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Barry Kruyssen" >> To: "KRnet" >> Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 6:31 PM >> Subject: Re: KR> what a day./ glide rato.. >> >> >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- From: larry flesner >> I doubt if a stopped >> > propeller is going to triple that number >> > >> > A stopped prop actually produces less drag, don't >> know the reason but have >> > tried it in self launch gliders (without >> feathering the prop) both idling >> > engine and stoped, there is noticeably less drag >> when the prop was >> > stopped. Also it is better for the prop to stop >> vertically so any >> > vortices from the prop don't upset the air flow >> over the wing, so I'm told >> > but I couldn't tell the difference :-) >> > >> > regards >> > Barry Kruyssen >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________ >> Search the KRnet Archives at >> http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net >> please see other KRnet info at >> http://www.krnet.org/info.html >> > > > "I can train a monkey to wave an American flag. That does not make the > monkey patriotic." > > Scott Ritter > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > *The information contained in this message may be confidential and/or > subject to legal privilege, and is for the use of the intended addressee > only. Any unauthorized use, dissemination or copying of the information > in this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message > in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this message.* > > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.7.8/22 - Release Date: 6/17/2005 > > ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 20:54:17 GMT From: "Jeff Scott" Subject: Re: KR> glide rato.. To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20050617.135458.1930.137416@webmail32.lax.untd.com> Content-Type: text/plain That's probably just the compression ratio. They typical Cont and Lyc are pretty low compression. The O-235 on my Tomahawk and O-200 on my KR have both been upgraded to high compression pistons. They are very stiff to pull against the compression. At tiny bump in the compression ratio makes a huge difference in the way it feels when you pull the prop through. I've heard that referred to as "the engine has good rubber". I would bet that the O-200 on my KR won't windmill at glide speeds, even with the 68" diameter prop that I use. Of course if you're referring to the bearings being tight, that's an assembly issue, but that would also show itself via oil pressure and/or metal in the oil filter/screen in very short order. Come back for the spam can guys: Tell them that theirs would be tight too if they had any compression. Jeff Scott Los Alamos, NM -- "Al Friesen" wrote: All, I have been told in the hangar group that my VW Revmaster is way too tight. All the conts and lyks are easier to turn over than my VW. Any come backs on these Spam can guys. ? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Golden, Kevin" To: "'KRnet'" Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 7:15 AM Subject: RE: KR> glide rato.. >A windmilling prop does more than disturb air over the airframe. A > windmilling prop will cause a huge amount of drag that is NEAR equal to > the > rotational disc of the prop. > > Not to worry. I haven't seen a VW or corvair windmill. Lycoming and > Continentals will. > > Kevin. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dennis Mingear [mailto:dennismingear@yahoo.com] > Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 9:02 AM > To: KRnet > Subject: Re: KR> glide rato.. > > If the prop stops in a horizontal position it will > disturb the airflow over the wing, making it seem > smaller than it actually is, this will reduce the > planes L/D. > > If the prop stops vertically the airflow over the wing > is not disturbed and you have more effective wing > area, producing more lift, which improves the planes > L/D. > > If the prop is windmilling it is intermittantly > disturbing the airflow over the wing which is hurting > the wings ability to produce lift and hurting the > planes L/D. > > Denny ... > > --- "Kenneth B. Jones" wrote: > >> Perhaps the stopped prop is less drag because it's >> stalled. >> >> Below is data taken from my flight test. My idle >> setting was about 800 to >> 900 rpm, a little high, at the time. Speeds are >> indicated knots. My plane >> stalls at about 50 knots indicated so I didn't check >> the glide below 60 kts. >> Surely the ratio will start back the other way >> before it stalls. I have a >> KR-2 with Diehl wings, 3 blade Warp drive taper >> blade 58" prop set at 19.5 >> degrees at the tip, A65, empty weight is 623 lbs., >> full fuel is 14 gal and I >> weigh about 180. >> >> Glide >> Speed Descent Distance Glide >> kts ft/min NM/1000 ft. Ratio >> 60 400 2.50 15.18 >> 65 442.5 2.45 12.93 >> 70 525 2.22 11.73 >> 75 625 2.00 10.56 >> 80 750 1.78 9.39 >> 85 800 1.77 9.35 >> 90 900 1.67 8.80 >> 95 1100 1.44 7.60 >> 100 1500 1.11 5.87 >> >> >> BTW, Bill's 2.5 miles per 1000 ft altitude is a >> glide ratio of 13.2 : 1 (if >> I calculated correctly). >> >> Ken Jones, kenbjones@cinci.rr.com >> Sharonville, OH >> N5834, aka The Porkopolis Flying Pig >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Barry Kruyssen" >> To: "KRnet" >> Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 6:31 PM >> Subject: Re: KR> what a day./ glide rato.. >> >> >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- From: larry flesner >> I doubt if a stopped >> > propeller is going to triple that number >> > >> > A stopped prop actually produces less drag, don't >> know the reason but have >> > tried it in self launch gliders (without >> feathering the prop) both idling >> > engine and stoped, there is noticeably less drag >> when the prop was >> > stopped. Also it is better for the prop to stop >> vertically so any >> > vortices from the prop don't upset the air flow >> over the wing, so I'm told >> > but I couldn't tell the difference :-) >> > >> > regards >> > Barry Kruyssen >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________ >> Search the KRnet Archives at >> http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to >> KRnet-leave@mylist.net >> please see other KRnet info at >> http://www.krnet.org/info.html >> > > > "I can train a monkey to wave an American flag. That does not make the > monkey patriotic." > > Scott Ritter > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > *The information contained in this message may be confidential and/or > subject to legal privilege, and is for the use of the intended addressee > only. Any unauthorized use, dissemination or copying of the information > in this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message > in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this message.* > > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.7.8/22 - Release Date: 6/17/2005 > > _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 18:04:33 -0400 From: "haroldwoods" Subject: KR> painting WAFs. To: Message-ID: <005901c57388$8b429430$0401a8c0@HAROLD> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi Netters, Some one recently asked about painting WAFs. If you go and talk to your local auto body repair shop you can ask them how they prepare metal for painting. My local painter said that he now used " Green Epoxy Primer". He thinks that it is the best thing that has happened in years. I bought a can (very expensive), it works like a charm. Be sure that the metal is free of oil &/ grease.Use a small syringe to measure out 5 or 10 ml of epoxy and in my case an equal volume of hardener. It is very fluid, It contains a solvent that rapidly evaporates, the epoxy cures in about an hour. If there is any left in the mixture give the metal a second coat. After the primer has cured (next day) , paint it with your favorite paint. I use a rust proof enamel paint called Tremclad. It is a good rust proof paint even without a primer. I can be applied to a rusty surface provided there is no oil or grease on it. Tremclad now make a clear coat for their paint. You must wait for 3 days before applying it over fresh Tremclad Paint. It costs about $10.00 Canadian per litre at Wal-Mart. I did the bottom on my KR with a white glossy Tremclad and will follow with the clear coat. I applied the white last year. It is still bright and shiny but I will clear coat it. I intend to paint the entire plane in it. Weep you Netters over the cost of my paint job. Regards Harold Woods Orillia, ON. Canada. haroldwoods@rogers.com ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 19:46:30 -0700 From: "Joe Beyer" Subject: KR> power off landings To: Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Anything you walk away from is a good landing. Even better if there is no damage. I think the KR2-S is better suited for an 0-200. I used to run around on the ground with a '65 Corvair and they are smooth and powerful. I'm wondering how well the Corvair aircraft conversion takes up the asymetric loads at the flywheel end of the crankshaft. With an auto conversion it's all in how you attach the prop that makes it safe. Among other things. -Joe ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 238 *************************************** ================================== ABC Amber Outlook Converter v4.20 Trial version ==================================