From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net To: John Bouyea Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 279 Date: 7/19/2005 9:00:13 PM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. RE: KR speed (wilder_jeff Wilder) 2. R?f. : RE: KR> epoxy pumps. (Serge VIDAL) 3. Longeron Doubler bevel at firewall (Steven Phillabaum) 4. Re: Longeron Doubler bevel at firewall (VIRGIL N SALISBURY) 5. Fw: KR> Mig or tig!! (patrusso) 6. Re: Fw: KR> Mig or tig!! (Ron Smith) 7. Re: Re: KR> Longeron Doubler bevel at firewall (Steven Phillabaum) 8. glider testing (Brian Kraut) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 23:19:56 -0600 From: "wilder_jeff Wilder" Subject: RE: KR> KR speed To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed If I can get 150mph out of my bird... I'll be more then happy!! -Jeff >From: "Brian Kraut" >Reply-To: KRnet >To: "KRnet" >Subject: RE: KR> KR speed >Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 23:19:55 -0400 > >Buy a copy of "Speed With Economy" by Kent Paser. You would be amazed >at the little things that will give you a lot of extra speed that are a >lot more important than horsepower. Kent did little mods to a Mustang >II and he meticulously documented every mod and the effects. > >And yes, pants will usually add about 12 MPH. > >Brian Kraut >Engineering Alternatives, Inc. >www.engalt.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: krnet-bounces+brian.kraut=engalt.com@mylist.net >[mailto:krnet-bounces+brian.kraut=engalt.com@mylist.net]On Behalf Of >wilder_jeff Wilder >Sent: Monday, July 18, 2005 12:42 AM >To: krnet@mylist.net >Subject: KR> KR speed > > > >Can someone explain to me why it is that there is such a gap in the top >end speed of KR's... ( HP aside ) > >There is a guy here in Longmont Co that has a KR... says he can do over >200 in it... ( not for me ).. but he can, running an O200. He says his >plane is about 500lbs > >built to the plans with a VW conversion.. the reported speed is 180.. but >yet other report a top end of only 120-140. > >Mark .. have you/ had you opened it up to see what she could do? > >I wouldnt think that wheel pants and wing gaps could add 12 mph.. man.. >I think I'll order a dozen... get an extra 144 mph out of her... :)just >need find a place to glass them to > >So is the top end speed more of a function of weight/HP apposed to just >HP everything else being equal? > >-Jeff > >by the way.. pulled a good piece off my mold tonight. I'll still have >to sand the snot out of it... and fill it with something. 2 layers of >mat 1 layer of 3.2 oz cloth... and about 3/4 of a gallon of impact >resin. I would guess it weighs about 10 lbs or so.. This piece is >strong enough to be free standing. I have reinforced it with some >honeycomb looking material, it looks like a sponge before you lay it >up.. man does suck up the resin.. but MAN is it stiff. I cut 2 in >strips ... and placed them ontop of the mold after I had pulled the >piece off.. layed them up.. and placed the piece back >on mold to cure. Part Doux... this round goes on the plane :D > > > >_______________________________________ >Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net >please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > >_______________________________________ >Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net >please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 10:10:22 +0200 From: Serge VIDAL Subject: R?f. : RE: KR> epoxy pumps. To: KRnet Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" The scale works great. But if you buy one, make sure it has small increments. Mine measures with an increment of 2g (that is 0.07oz in stone age units), and that's clearly not accurate enough to do small quantities of resin mix. Take one with zeroing function as well, so that you can zero it with your empty container on, or even with the first paert of the mix in the container. Very convenient. When I bought the scale, I came back home and said: "Darling, I bought you a very nice kitchen scale!" My wife said: What do you want me to do with that? You know I dislike complicated things in my kitchen!"; "Oh!" I said. "Sorry. Not a problem, in that case, I will use it to mix my Epoxy resins!" ;-) Serge Vidal KR2 "Kilimanjaro Cloud" Paris, France "Brian Kraut" Envoyé par : krnet-bounces@mylist.net 2005-07-19 05:40 Veuillez répondre à KRnet Remis le : 2005-07-19 05:40 Pour : "KRnet" cc : (ccc : Serge VIDAL/DNSA/SAGEM) Objet : RE: KR> epoxy pumps. I use a small digital scale now that I got at Office Depot for about 30 bucks and I will not go back to measuring by volume again. I used to use syringes also when I measured the epoxy by volume, but instead of directly syringing the epoxy I used to use water in the syringes to get the volume markings I was looking for in a clear plastic cup then I would dry the cup and put the epoxy and hardener in to the marks I made. I also highly recommend saving your T-88 squeeze bottles to put your laminating epoxy in later or using ketchup and mustard bottles. The T-88 bottles clean out good with vinegar or acetone. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces+brian.kraut=engalt.com@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces+brian.kraut=engalt.com@mylist.net]On Behalf Of haroldwoods Sent: Monday, July 18, 2005 1:22 PM To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR> epoxy pumps. Hi Netters. For those that measure their epoxy by volume, I suggest instead of pumps use syringes. Go to the local drug store and buy a 50 ml syringe. They are cheep. Even though you may be using 1 volume to 1 volume of epoxy to hardener get different sized syringes. The reason is that sooner or later you will stick the epoxy syringe into the hardener by mistake. If the epoxy is a thick type, cut off the needle fitting and run a 3/16" drill into the end of the syringe. This will make it easy to draw up the thick epoxy. Next use a fine tipped black permanent marker to go over the volume markings on the side scale of the syringe. Otherwise the epoxy will gradually dissolve off the marking. Add a stripe of colored tape down one side and on the end of the piston. Cover the entire cylinder with clear cello tape. This will preserve the volume marking indefinitely. Stand the syringe in a can or jar after each use. Do the same with the hardener sysringe but use a different colored tape on it. I use plastic jars for the epoxy and hardener. Peanut butter jars (plastic) work well. Color code them too. It does not take long to estimate the volume of epoxy that you require for a particular job. Don't mix more than you require. Get a couple of small syringes too for small jobs. Get a pair of 5 ml, 10 ml and 20 ml syringes. This way you will always have the exact mixing ratios in your glue. With a syringe you can see that you have the required volume. You are not relying on a pump which might have sucked a bit of air around the piston or might not have been pushed all the way to the top or bottom of it's travel. And don't forget the gloves. Keep that epoxy off your skin. I think that the blue "Tyvec" gloves are the best. They are tougher than latex or vinyl gloves. Clean the gloves off with "varsol", hang them up to dry. Next time use "Baby Powder" on your hands before putting them on again. They will last a long time this way. Sorry if I got a bit wordy. Harold Woods Orillia, ON Canada haroldwoods@rogers.com _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 7:44:05 -0400 From: Steven Phillabaum Subject: KR> Longeron Doubler bevel at firewall To: Message-ID: <47kor5$11tphrl@mxip07a.cluster1.charter.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hello net. You will have to have your plans out for this one. I have a question about the Longeron Doubler at the fire wall. The plans show the first Longeron planned to match the 1/4" shelf and filler block. Also shows the Doubler beveled to match the angle of the first Longeron. 1. Is the first longeron beveled the entire length? 2. Then is the Doubler beveled to match the angel of the side of the Longeron? 2. Is this the way you did it? 3. Can I just glue the Doubler to the longeron and only bevel the portion of them both that will be involved with the shelf area? The book shows what looks like a KR1 with almost straight sides and states just to glue on the doubler. The Plans drawing B shows the bevel situation. Note I have widened my fuselage to be 44" and have a stock firewall. Talk about a Banana boat. Steven Phillabaum KR2S; 5048; corvair; Auburn, Alabama ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 09:25:43 -0400 From: VIRGIL N SALISBURY Subject: Re: KR> Longeron Doubler bevel at firewall To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20050719.092848.2788.3.virgnvs@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Make the top and bottom widths the same, no bananna boat, Virg On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 7:44:05 -0400 Steven Phillabaum writes: > Hello net. > You will have to have your plans out for this one. > > I have a question about the Longeron Doubler at the fire wall. The > plans show the first Longeron planned to match the 1/4" shelf and > filler block. Also shows the Doubler beveled to match the angle of > the first Longeron. > > 1. Is the first longeron beveled the entire length? > 2. Then is the Doubler beveled to match the angel of the side of the > Longeron? > 2. Is this the way you did it? > 3. Can I just glue the Doubler to the longeron and only bevel the > portion of them both that will be involved with the shelf area? > > The book shows what looks like a KR1 with almost straight sides and > states just to glue on the doubler. The Plans drawing B shows the > bevel situation. Note I have widened my fuselage to be 44" and have > a stock firewall. Talk about a Banana boat. > > > Steven Phillabaum > KR2S; 5048; corvair; > Auburn, Alabama > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > Virgil N. Salisbury - AMSOIL www.lubedealer.com/salisbury Miami ,Fl ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 16:23:08 -0400 From: "patrusso" Subject: Fw: KR> Mig or tig!! To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <000d01c58c9f$adb3fd30$88a472d8@patrusso> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Sorry guys for the lenght of this answer and the delay. Had to discuss it with my son as I stole the info from him (his book). Feel free to buy it! Pat > > TIG and oxyacetylene are the methods used in certified aircraft repair > and by homebuilders for a few reasons. Note that different factories > do use TIG, MIG, oxyacetylene, and stick for apparently similar jobs, > but there are big differences. > The real difference bewteen MIG and TIG is the > > 1) size of the weld bead > 2) Control of heat input and rate of heat onset > > 1) MIG produces a much larger weld bead than TIG or oxyacetylene. The > extra > filler material isn't needed and may add up to 5 LBS more to a large > tubular > steel fuselage. In addition, MIG weld beads often do not blend in > smoothly > with the base metals. This creates a 'stress riser' on highly elastic > structures (fuselage or light engine mount for example) that will > eventually > crack in service. Some structures are designed to be very rigid and the > increased stress brought on by a sudden change in cross-section (big fat > MIG > bead) isn't a factor. Some structures are so overdesigned to comply with > certain loading requirements that certain stress risers don't matter. A > MIG > weld bead doesn't lend itself to visual inspection because it often gives > the appearance of a 'cold weld' (insufficient penetration). It would not > meet the visual inspection standards for normal aircraft welds because > there > is no way to tell if there is complete penetration. Factories have clever > and expensive methods to inspect the welds (Xray, destroying lots of > samples, etc.). MIG is faster and that is why factories use it when they > can. > > 2) Because MIG is often started and stopped at a constant amperage, > the beginning and end of the weld won't have the same structural > properties as the middle of the weld. Again a structure may be so > overdesigned to meet certain requirements that this is not going to be > a factor. Also when a weldment is composed of various thicknesses or > dissipates heat in odd ways (like when welding near an edge), the > inability to vary the heat input while welding may create poor welds > in certain areas. This can also be a problem > when welding very small or delicate pieces in that the starting and > stopping > of the weld create blobs of filler material in areas they aren't desired, > or > burns away the base metal. > > MIG welding produces the same chemical change to the base metal as TIG > welding and the two welds should be the same basic strength, apart > from the factors discussed previously. The difference bewteen the two > welding methods is the application of the heat and filler material. > It is important > to differentiate bewteen strength, stiffness, ductility, etc. when > discussing materials and their weldments. > > Even stick welding has been used in the construction of aircraft parts > where > it was found to be advantageous by the engineers. > > Note that in structural analysis of welded aircraft parts, the US > government > no longer allows estimates of weld strength based on historical or > published > data (see MMPDS-01 and MIL HNDBK 17 in comparison to ANC-5). An entity > wishing to gain approval to fabricate new aircraft parts that include > weldments must submit many samples to a destructive testing lab that will > produce real data about the strength of the joints, that data being used > to > create analyses of the structures. This is due to the fact that welding > technique, welding method, and the materials used vary widely from one > organization to another. > > An exception to this is that the FAA will approve TIG and oxyacetylene > welds > on 4130 structures as long as the welds meet the visual inspection > requirements for aircraft welds. This is probably because airplanes have > been built this way for a hundred years and the same materials have been > used since the 1930's. The welds produced by these methods have been > demonstrated to not only have the strength, but the correct stiffness, > ductility, etc. for nearly every type of structural loading condition. > > The reheating of 4130 steel (normalization)after welding has been > investigated in the not too distant past and it appears that no > structural advantages are to be had by doing this. In addition, it is > impossible to uniformly heat a weldment to the correct temperature > with a torch and Tempilstick. Some factories do it (in an big oven) > because of their specific manufacturing process (special welding rod, > etc.) and one cannot make a comparison without knowing all the facts. > The FAA does not require the normalization of welds made with TIG or > oxyacetylene on 4130 structures when the correct filler rod is used > (ER70S2). > > > Hope this gives some idea about the factors involved. Read the book, > Construction of Tubular Steel Fuselages, for more information. > > David Russo, A&P, aircraft welder, pilot, BS Aero, etc. and > coincidentally, > the author of Construction of Tubular Steel Fuselages >> >> Any tips? >> >> P.S. Even if I were never to finnish this plane,( Oh I >> will) I have the some of the coolest tools now!!! >> >> Ron Smith, >> kr2ssxl, boat stage >> Cypress Ca ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 14:22:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Ron Smith Subject: Re: Fw: KR> Mig or tig!! To: KRnet Message-ID: <20050719212250.57444.qmail@web81706.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Thanks Pat, for taking the time and trouble to post that information! I think in the end I will probably use the mig to tack the pieces together and have a "real welder" do the rest. That way I can fabricate the parts the way I want and have confidence in the welding also. I am going to have fun with my little welder.............and that's is the real fun, and also the purpose of "experimental aviation". Ron Smith, kr2ssxl, boat stage Cypress Ca. ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 17:42:42 -0400 From: Steven Phillabaum Subject: Re: Re: KR> Longeron Doubler bevel at firewall To: KRnet Message-ID: <43vthu$12ac4ar@mxip03a.cluster1.charter.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 To late the boat is finished except all the upper pieces. Including the upper firewall brace of 5/8" by 3 1/2". I would like to install it tonight but I need to figure out the doubler situation. Thanks. > > From: VIRGIL N SALISBURY > Make the top and bottom widths the same, no bananna boat, Virg Steven Phillabaum KR2S; 5048; corvair; Auburn, Alabama ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 23:30:57 -0400 From: "Brian Kraut" Subject: KR> glider testing To: "KRnet" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" I was flying my Midget Mustang today (39 hours down, 1 to go!) and I wanted to see how much drag a windmilling prop really causes. I started from 9,000' and did some idle power glide testing and some engine stopped glide testing both with the prop windmilling and stopped. With the engine at idle it took me 70 seconds to descend 1,000'. With the engine stopped and the prop windmilling it took 65 seconds. With the prop stopped I expected a better glide, but it took 60 seconds. I guess the idea of a stopped prop giving less drag than a windmilling prop does not hold up for every plane and prop combination. Incidently, on this plane it does not make that much of a difference anyway because the best glide speed is about 80 MPH and at that speed the prop will not windmill. It stops windmilling at about 90. To get it windmilling again after it stops I had to accelerate t about 140. So if the fan stops blowing at low altitude my best choice is to keep the speed at about 90 and the prop windmilling. That gives mejust about the same glide as 80 with the prop stopped and it gives the engine a chance to restart without having to use the starter or a serious dive. I recommend doing this testing on your own planes so you know what works best. If you are not confident enough in your engine or your landing ability to shut the engine at a very high altitude right over the airport then you need to fly more and get more confidence before the engine stops when you least expect it. Just remember that if you are at a high altitude with the mixture pulled half way back and you pull it all the way out to shut the engine that you should not go and push it all the way back rich to start it again. Also, shut the engine by going to idel and pulling the mixture, not turning off the ignition. If you do that and then turn the ignition back on you are going to get one hell of a backfire. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 279 *************************************** ================================== ABC Amber Outlook Converter v4.20 Trial version ==================================