From: krnet-bounces+johnbou=speakeasy.net@mylist.net To: John Bouyea Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 281 Date: 7/21/2005 9:00:18 PM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Holes through spars (Phillip Matheson) 2. Oshkosh 2005 bound! (John Bouyea) 3. Re: Engine burps !! (phil brookman) 4. Re: WAF (Peter Drake) 5. Re: Re: KR> Longeron Doubler bevel at firewall (Mark Langford) 6. Re: WAF (larry flesner) 7. Re: WAF (Peter Drake) 8. Re: WAF (Mark Langford) 9. WAF (rhartwig11@juno.com) 10. R?f. : KR> WAF (Serge VIDAL) 11. Re: WAF (patrusso) 12. WAF/ Jeanette Rand/Gathering (larry flesner) 13. I have my C of A to celebrate I did a flight in the mountains. (Al Hawkins) 14. Re: Carbie Icing (Phillip Matheson) 15. How Many Days? (Mark Jones) 16. WW holey cowling (Mark Langford) 17. Re: WW holey cowling (Steven Phillabaum) 18. Re: I have my C of A to celebrate I did a flight in the mountains. (Charles Buddy & Cheryl Midkiff) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 14:36:37 +1000 From: "Phillip Matheson" Subject: Re: KR> Holes through spars To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <02c801c58dad$c88ed670$9830ddcb@StationW2k04> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Rand KR2 plans & Manual, show the rear spar cut to allow the flap push rod to go through it. So did I. (Check the Flap pages. Phillip Matheson mathesonp@dodo.com.au Australia VH PKR See our engines and kits at. http://www.vw-engines.com/ http://www.homebuilt-aviation.com/ See my KR Construction web page at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/FlyingKRPhil/VHPKR.html Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 22:09:07 -0700 From: "John Bouyea" Subject: KR> Oshkosh 2005 bound! To: "KRNet" Message-ID: <001301c58db2$52bf48d0$a800a8c0@dell4600> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I'm headed form Portland, Oregon to Oshkosh tomorrow morning! I hope to see anyone/ everyone there. Stop by our FlightPrep booth for a look at some state-of-the-art tablet computer based moving map and flight planning software. I'll miss the Beer&Brats Sunday but hope to make the KR Forum Monday afternoon! Cheers! John Bouyea john_0310@bouyea.net (503) 640-5186 home (503) 341-9628 cell ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 08:02:25 +0100 From: "phil brookman" Subject: Re: KR> Engine burps !! To: "Terry Teer" , "KRnet" Message-ID: <027601c58dc2$26acae30$73a51352@philljl2re6t9i> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 cannot comment on the posa to much have heard sories from both sides but i dont like them -fuel coming out of the carb when the engine stops -not good got to find out electrcal or fuel first i take it you have 2 mags so unlikely to be mags me i would change to a better carb or carbs two strombergs maybe or a big one p ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terry Teer" To: Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2005 2:29 AM Subject: KR> Engine burps !! > After asking a few questions and trying several good suggestions, I > still have a "miss" in my engine. It is a Revmaster 2180 with POSA w/o mixture, Bendix D-2000 mags. Previously thought that it was a carb design issue but need to look elsewhere. On initial start up the plane starts and idles perfectly. Today we taxied to the other end of the field (4600 ft) and returned. Engine didn't miss until we got back about half way. It is just a "bump" in the engine. It doesn't stumble as in a fuel problem in my opinion. I can't make it do it. Sometimes it just quits altogether and restarts just fine. When I bought the plane the previous owner said that the stumble was a trait of the POSA and wasn't an issue at flying rpm. I'm just not so sure. Could there be an ignition issue that would cause this? I have not taxied on just one mag to single out that, but during a mag check they seem to function fine. It does seem to start after warming up. Oil temps of about 150. Checked the fuel line for a hot soak condition and was slightly warm. Hell, the exhaust pipes were barely hot!! Any more suggestions? > > > Scared to fly > Regards, > Terry Teer > Ackerman, MS > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > -- > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.12/46 - Release Date: > 11/07/2005 > > -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.12/46 - Release Date: 11/07/2005 ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 09:23:21 +0100 From: "Peter Drake" Subject: Re: KR> WAF To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <000e01c58dcd$74feb9b0$0201a8c0@PETER> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Jaco I have increased the centre section of the wing by 6" overall and shortened the outboard sections by the same amount. this is to accomodate a modified airbrake system to improve its short field performance. To gain approval from the PFA (UK inspection organisation) we had to use a modified WAF which consists of doubled 16 swg heat treated plates with ally bushes through the spar along the centre of the plates, also increased diameter main bolts. If you want a belt and braces job I can send you a copy of the drawings. Peter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jaco Swanepoel" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 4:15 PM Subject: KR> WAF > Hallo Guys, > I have increased the dimensions on my wing spars with approx 15% and > also > fitted 6 ply mahogany plywood to each side instead of 3 ply. The wings are > fitted with wing tanks and came out beautifully, but the thing is this, > The WAF are still the same. I am sure that the 32 liter tanks on each side > should help with unloading the WAF. Should I redo the WAF or could I fit a > stretch plate between the top inboard WAF and the bottom outboard WAF > (front and rear)? I plan on operating the plane at a 1250 lbs Gross > weight. The horisontal stabiliser has been extended 4 inches per side, the > vertical stabiliser has also been extended with 4 inchesand the wing span > is 24.2 ft (RAF48). Any thoughts? > > Jaco Swanepoel > South Africa > KR2S _ ZU-DVP > > > --------------------------------- > Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > --- > > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.9.2/52 - Release Date: 19/07/2005 > > ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 06:47:50 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: Re: KR> Longeron Doubler bevel at firewall To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <002801c58dea$061d62e0$5e0ca58c@net.tbe.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Steve, Sorry I forgot to answer this earlier, but I was at work when you posted this, and I still have yet to pull out my plans and look at them, so I could still be wrong. I don't remember doing any beveling at all to the doublers, except at the rear end where they taper down to just one longeron. As with most stuff you can't figure out in the plans, just do whatever will provide the most contact area between members, and whatever makes the most sense. There was one little short guy in that area of the shelf that simply couldn't be inserted with its full length after the other stuff was in place, so I had to shorten it a little and bevel the end to get it in there. Not proper contact, but I figure everybody else had the same problem, and it hasn't broken yet, despite my checkered landing history... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 07:27:15 -0500 From: larry flesner Subject: Re: KR> WAF To: KRnet Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20050721072715.0085be10@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >I have increased the centre section of the wing by 6" overall and >shortened >the outboard sections by the same amount. . To gain approval >from the PFA (UK inspection organisation) we had to use a modified WAF >Peter +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Peter, I think I'm missing something very basic here. If you increased the span of the center section and decreased the span of the outer panels, wouldn't that make the load on the WAF LESS, not more? If so, why did they have you increase the strength? Curious minds want to know !! :-) Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 14:01:35 +0100 From: "Peter Drake" Subject: Re: KR> WAF To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <001f01c58df4$5314b5d0$0201a8c0@PETER> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Larry I took over this project after the mods had been approved. I am not entirely sure what the rationale behind the strengthened WAFs was, however I will enquire with the previous owner and let you know. Peter ----- Original Message ----- From: "larry flesner" To: "KRnet" Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 1:27 PM Subject: Re: KR> WAF > >>I have increased the centre section of the wing by 6" overall and >>shortened >>the outboard sections by the same amount. > . To gain approval >>from the PFA (UK inspection organisation) we had to use a modified WAF >>Peter > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > Peter, > > I think I'm missing something very basic here. If you increased the > span of the center section and decreased the span of the outer panels, > wouldn't that make the load on the WAF LESS, not more? If so, why did > they have you increase the strength? > > Curious minds want to know !! :-) > > Larry Flesner > > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > --- > > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.9.2/53 - Release Date: 20/07/2005 > > ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 08:10:19 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> WAF To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <001201c58df5$8be19d50$5e0ca58c@net.tbe.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Larry Flesner wrote: > I think I'm missing something very basic here. If you increased the > span of the center section and decreased the span of the outer panels, > wouldn't that make the load on the WAF LESS, not more? If so, why did > they have you increase the strength? I wondered the same thing, and decided it was so the inspector could feel like a big-shot. That connection is so strong that people crash planes and they're still intact... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 12:09:05 -0500 From: rhartwig11@juno.com Subject: KR> WAF To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20050721.120906.3252.3.rhartwig11@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Ref: WAF Modification The drawings indicate that the UK mod is actually lighter than the R-R WAFs. Each individual WAF fitting is made from 2 thicknesses of .063 steel (as opposed to one of .125 for the R-R). One is slightly longer than the R-R fitting and one is considerably shorter. The long fitting has 4 extra AN4 bolts running down the center instead of the 3 (so called) lightening holes--the shorter fitting is a doubler at the wing attach bolt and catches 2 of the extra bolts and four of the standard bolts. There are four 3/8 inch alum bushings in the spar for these extra bolts. I have heard of WAFs loosening over time. Would putting the 3 bushed bolts down the center of a R-R WAF rather than the large graduated lightening holes be an improvement? I do understand that there is an engineering reason for the large holes. Comments from engineering types?? Dick Hartwig Waunakee, WI rhartwig11@juno.com ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 19:37:06 +0200 From: Serge VIDAL Subject: R?f. : KR> WAF To: KRnet Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" We have been through that recently. From what I gathered, the lightening holes are here because the wood and steel are dissymetric materials. It's a question of elastic properties. Ideally, the WAFs should be tapered. Since this is not practical, because of the spar construction mode, the incremental lightening holes are there to act roughly as a taper. If the WAFs tend to loosen (which I doubt, since I battled a lot to get mine out), then the practical solution is to build the ribs in such a way that the bolts can be accessed for a periodical inspection, and re-torqued as required, every 5 years or so. >From my opinion, the extra bolts would just be an overkill. Now, again, it's your call. Serge Vidal KR2 "Kilimanjaro Cloud" Paris, France rhartwig11@juno.com Envoyé par : krnet-bounces@mylist.net 2005-07-21 19:09 Veuillez répondre à KRnet Remis le : 2005-07-21 19:10 Pour : krnet@mylist.net cc : (ccc : Serge VIDAL/DNSA/SAGEM) Objet : KR> WAF Ref: WAF Modification The drawings indicate that the UK mod is actually lighter than the R-R WAFs. Each individual WAF fitting is made from 2 thicknesses of .063 steel (as opposed to one of .125 for the R-R). One is slightly longer than the R-R fitting and one is considerably shorter. The long fitting has 4 extra AN4 bolts running down the center instead of the 3 (so called) lightening holes--the shorter fitting is a doubler at the wing attach bolt and catches 2 of the extra bolts and four of the standard bolts. There are four 3/8 inch alum bushings in the spar for these extra bolts. I have heard of WAFs loosening over time. Would putting the 3 bushed bolts down the center of a R-R WAF rather than the large graduated lightening holes be an improvement? I do understand that there is an engineering reason for the large holes. Comments from engineering types?? Dick Hartwig Waunakee, WI rhartwig11@juno.com _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 14:09:43 -0400 From: "patrusso" Subject: Re: KR> WAF To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <001301c58e1f$5f3e0e80$a9a672d8@patrusso> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Pete Gotta agree with larry on this one, but I have another question; why bother to decrease the lenght of the outer panels? A little extra lift wont hurt. Would the accompanying drag more than off set this? Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: "larry flesner" To: "KRnet" Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 8:27 AM Subject: Re: KR> WAF > >>I have increased the centre section of the wing by 6" overall and >>shortened >>the outboard sections by the same amount. > . To gain approval >>from the PFA (UK inspection organisation) we had to use a modified WAF >>Peter > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > Peter, > > I think I'm missing something very basic here. If you increased the > span of the center section and decreased the span of the outer panels, > wouldn't that make the load on the WAF LESS, not more? If so, why did > they have you increase the strength? > > Curious minds want to know !! :-) > > Larry Flesner > > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 15:42:24 -0500 From: larry flesner Subject: KR> WAF/ Jeanette Rand/Gathering To: KRnet Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20050721154224.0085b890@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" why bother >to decrease the lenght of the outer panels? A little extra lift wont >hurt. >Would the accompanying drag more than off set this? >Pat ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Longer wings will help the KR will smaller engines get a bit better climb rate but the extra length means more lift and more "wetted area" at cruise and therefore hurting the cruise a bit. Also, the longer wings, such as the Diehl premolded skins, will cut down the G rating of the wing by 1/2 G. At least that's the word I got from Jeanette Rand several years ago. Speaking of Jeanette Rand, she returned my phone call today and indicated she plans to attend the 2005 KR Gathering in Mt.Vernon. One or more of her daughters plans to attend also along with other family members. How many more day Mark Jones????????? Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 14:02:09 -0700 From: "Al Hawkins" Subject: KR> I have my C of A to celebrate I did a flight in the mountains. To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <000001c58e37$76966380$6702a8c0@mycomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Guys I took off at 9:20 am for a 1 hour flight in the local mountains. It took quite a while to climb to 9000 feet, as I was crossing over a glacier I had a bit of a scare. The RPM started dropping from 3000 to 2900 in about 3 seconds. I pulled out the carb heat and after about 15 seconds the RPM came back up. More proof the a POSA carb can experience carb ice, it was probably in the intake manifold. Al Hawkins KR2 C-GDPU Port Coquitlam, B.C. Canada ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2005 09:02:47 +1000 From: "Phillip Matheson" Subject: Re: KR> Carbie Icing To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <005901c58e48$505da0f0$9830ddcb@StationW2k04> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I pulled out the carb heat and after about 15 seconds the RPM came back up. ------------------------- One of the first things my instructor hammered into me was Carbie heat. It can happen at much higher temps then flying over a glacier. I would strongly urge ALL engine to have a Carbie heat control. Phillip Matheson mathesonp@dodo.com.au Australia VH PKR See our engines and kits at. http://www.vw-engines.com/ http://www.homebuilt-aviation.com/ See my KR Construction web page at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/FlyingKRPhil/VHPKR.html Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 20:31:40 -0500 From: "Mark Jones" Subject: KR> How Many Days? To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <006001c58e5d$6eb9cbe0$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ----- Original Message ----- From: "larry flesner" > How many more day Mark Jones????????? > 49 if you are a true KR die hard. 50 if a dedicated KR nut and 51 if just a looker. YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 21:01:05 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: KR> WW holey cowling To: "KRnet" Cc: WilliamTCA@aol.com Message-ID: <1e7f01c58e61$3a2321c0$1202a8c0@1700xp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" William Wynne asked me to post a few pictures of the cowling he's now selling to KR builders. This plug started out life as my cowling on Bill Clapps' plane, so it was already pretty straight. Straight not because it was my cowling (NOT), but because Bill is a body man and put 10 pounds of filler on my cowling shape to make his very nice one. Bill then added one of WW's Corvair nosebowls and blended it in to "my" cowling, and this cowling is the result. The Molds are made by an expert who usually makes composite helicoper parts. It's top quality. There are a couple of photos at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/corvair/05072013m.jpg and http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/corvair/05072015m.jpg . It's designed to use a Van's 13" RV spinner, which WW will true up for you on a fixture for a fee if you'll ship it to him. The cowling has an extra inch or two in all directions, so it'll actually work with a slightly longer prop hub than his, if you're that brave. Total weight is about 10.5 pounds. I don't know that he has decided on a price yet, but it sure helps if you're putting a Corvair on a KR. Molds are made and he can ship them almost immediately... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net -------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Message: 17 Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 22:10:05 -0400 From: Steven Phillabaum Subject: Re: KR> WW holey cowling To: KRnet Message-ID: <44038l$182lnvh@mxip16a.cluster1.charter.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Looks like I'll even cut more time off my total build time. Can't wait to see the price. I spoke to Bill Clapp yesterday and he said it will be the way to go. Next week will mark the one year anniversary of the start of my project. Now if I can just get it finished. Mark L wrote: > There are a couple of photos at > http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/corvair/05072013m.jpg and > http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/corvair/05072015m.jpg . > It's designed to use a Van's 13" RV spinner, which WW will true up for you on a fixture for a fee if you'll ship it to him. I don't know that he has decided on a price yet, but it sure helps if you're putting a Corvair on a KR. Molds are made and he can ship them almost immediately... Steven Phillabaum KR2S; 5048; corvair; Auburn, Alabama ------------------------------ Message: 18 Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 19:28:20 -0700 From: "Charles Buddy & Cheryl Midkiff" Subject: Re: KR> I have my C of A to celebrate I did a flight in the mountains. To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <00a601c58e65$073f7ed0$6601a8c0@BUDDY> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original Congratulations Al , what did you use to replace the cracked landing gear? Did Grove come through for you or did you repair the crack? Sure was good to see you and several of the other KR guys at Arlington. Sorry I missed Adrian's KR this year. I guess John didn't stay long with it because of the weather. Well I made my reservations for the KR Gathering today finally. Any chance of you flying yours to this years get together? Bud Midkiff Lynnwood, WA email: c.midkiff@verizon.net I took off at 9:20 am for a 1 hour flight in the local mountains. It took quite a while to climb to 9000 feet, as I was crossing over a glacier I had a bit of a scare. The RPM started dropping from 3000 to 2900 in about 3 seconds. I pulled out the carb heat and after about 15 seconds the RPM came back up. More proof the a POSA carb can experience carb ice, it was probably in the intake manifold. Al Hawkins KR2 C-GDPU Port Coquitlam, B.C. Canada ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 281 *************************************** ================================== ABC Amber Outlook Converter v4.20 Trial version ==================================