From: krnet-bounces+johnbou=speakeasy.net@mylist.net To: John Bouyea Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 30 Date: 1/20/2005 4:14:31 PM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: 54 inch chord (Ron Eason) 2. Richmond, KY i39 flyin (Dana Overall) 3. Re: cowling molds (Steven Phillabaum) 4. Re: Richmond, KY i39 flyin (Orma) 5. Fw: KR> KR2S CG spreadsheet (Mark Langford) 6. RE: How Many Days (Mark Jones) 7. RE: AS 504X CofG (Stephen Jacobs) 8. AS 504X CofG (Oscar Zuniga) 9. AS 504X CofG - I wonder? (Stephen Jacobs) 10. Re: Richmond, KY i39 flyin (VIRGIL N SALISBURY) 11. Prop (Colin & Bev Rainey) 12. RE: AS 504X CofG (Karl Pudney) 13. Re: AS 504X CofG (Dene Collett (SA)) 14. Re: Prop (Matthew Elder) 15. Re: AS 504X CofG (Matthew Elder) 16. fly it in primer for ever (Dan Heath) 17. Re: fly it in primer for ever (VIRGIL N SALISBURY) 18. Re: KR2S CG spreadsheet and AS 504* CofG (Barry Kruyssen) 19. Re: fly it in primer for ever (Stephen and Janet Henderson) 20. Re: fly it in primer for ever (Mark Jones) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 23:24:05 -0600 From: "Ron Eason" Subject: Re: KR> 54 inch chord To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <001b01c4feb0$4310cc10$6601a8c0@CADENGINEERING> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Yes, My Kr has a 54" cord at the fus. Tapers from 48 at end of stub to 54 at fus.[Allows larger flaps and conventional retracts.] KRron ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2005 3:19 PM Subject: KR> 54 inch chord > Does anyone know of a KR wing built with a 54 inch chord? Dick H. > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 06:59:28 -0500 From: "Dana Overall" Subject: KR> Richmond, KY i39 flyin To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Just a heads up gang, this years date is set as February 26th. weather permitting. This is what was in the RVator last year. I'll keep everyone informed. I know it's not Friday but I'll be away tomorrow. WOW, what can I say? 86+ RVs and over 107 total aircraft this past February 28th at i39 Richmond, KY. http://members16.clubphoto.com/rick742624/guest.phtml Big thanks to Rick Schwandt for the pictures. What started out as an informal UFO (Ultimate Fly Out) by the Ohio Valley RVators to my shop, turned into a great kickoff for this years fly-in season. As most on the RV lists are aware, I moved the event from my shop to the airport two weeks prior to the event. At that time, I made some phone calls to round up door prizes. The weather forecast for the entire east coast promised beautiful weather, this time we were not disappointed. The first arrival was from the Michigan, Indiana border and was at 7:40AM. By this time the local EAA chapter had coffee and free donuts. Shortly thereafter, the pattern was full of RVs coming from all directions. It was a continuous dialogue of “flight of four inbound with traffic in sight”, “flight of two following flight of two”. Give credit to the pilots, at no time did I ever witness anything remotely compromising. I took care of parking RVs on the ramp until it filled. The ramp was double stacked, leaving taxi space between rows. My youngest son and a friend took care of directing arrivals on the taxiway where pilots were allowed to park there own airplanes as they wished. The taxiway is nearly 1500’ long. We had RVs and certified, parked wingtip to wingtip nearly to the end of the taxiway. By the way, we tried to only allow RVs onto the ramp. Reserve parking was saved for TeamRV and the Ohio Valley RVators as they promised to put on three different formation flights. TeamRV, led by Mike Stewart arrived from Atlanta with a flight of 9, as did Ohio Valley, led by Rick Gray. Ohio Valley had either 17 or 18 arrivals. Indy Wing topped the list with 20 RVs which included 2 fire breathing Super 8s. 12 represented the TN VALLEY BUILDER GROUP; the Palmetto Wing had 3 along with 3 from SERV. I believe the group from Pontiac, MI made it in along with a two from Florida, west from MO and from north east of DC. At noon I took a little break and started counting airplanes. A couple RVs had already left by then so I added them to the count. At noon we had 86 RVs and 107 total aircraft for the fly-in. More RVs arrived after noon but I did not try and keep count, as I was busy with lunch, formation flying and the door prizes. I also squeezed in a little “shopping” time walking and looking at RVs. After a lunch of hamburgers, hotdogs and free Hooters wings TeamRV, as a flight 5 and Ohio Valley, as a flight of 5 put on individual formation flight demonstrations, which would make the most harden envious. Icing on the cake came form a final 8 ship formation showcase as a joint formation flight demonstration made up of both teams. A reporter and photographer went up with TeamRV. Stunning photographs now grace the front page of the local Sunday paper. http://www.richmondregister.com/articles/2004/02/29/news/news01.txt Door prizes were given out from the following supporters: Van's Aircraft, Builders Bookstore, Control Vision AnyWhere Map, EZ Pilot Auto Pilot, engalt.com/aviation.htm fabulous post light system, Experimentalair.com CAD designed and water jet cut instrument panel, Kitlog Pro, Grand Rapids, Trutrack autopilot discounts from aircraftextras.com, Avery and Cleaveland. Thanks to all who attended and yes, same time next year!! Dana Overall 1999 & 2000 National KR Gathering host Richmond, KY i39 RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" Finish kit 13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon. http://rvflying.tripod.com ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 13:11:09 +0000 From: Steven Phillabaum Subject: Re: KR> cowling molds To: KRnet Message-ID: <3khj62$lea1d6@mxip13a.cluster1.charter.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 OK here it goes, My wife and I help out on an "underground for dachshunds." transport system. To save dogs from being put to sleep. We drive 2 hours one way to pick up the dogs then drive 2 hours in the other direction to deliver to another transport person. An example of that would be since I live in Auburn, Alabama would be to meet someone in say, Mobile Alabama (3 hour drive for me) and then take the molds to Atlanta Georgia (2 hour drive from my house) thus making the total trip over a period of a couple days maybe a couple weekends. If you were at the gathering you may have noticed the pins on the map. A network of pick up and delivery points could get something from one place to another. I plan on going to Biloxi Mississippi in a few weeks maybe I can help. Steven Phillabaum Auburn, Alabama Glassing Horizontal Stab. when temps go up. > > From: Jumpnkd@aol.com > Date: 2005/01/19 Wed AM 06:43:41 GMT > To: krnet@mylist.net > Subject: KR> cowling molds > > In a message dated 1/18/05 11:59:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, > krnet-request@mylist.net writes: > > I talked to Ray last night, and he has packed the cowling molds for > > >shipping. The box is oversize for shipping UPS and so will cost > > >about $100 > > >to ship. Ray is in New Orleans And I'm in Fayetteville NC. Is anyone on the > > > > >net traveling from near New Orleans east that would be willing to > > >transport > > > > >the cowling molds for me. I would be glad to pay a tank of gas as > > >long as > > >you are not filling up a 747. > > > > > > Ck with some Truck freight CO. or the bus lines. I can get a motor > shipped from cal to VA for 150.00 you can find it cheaper than UPS. let your fingers > do the dialing and call the bus terminals, and the trucking co. there has to > be some way to do it cheap. > > "People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are > doing > it."? George Bernard Shaw, (1856-1950) Irish playwright and winner of the Nobel > Prize for Literature 1925 Yours Bill > > > > > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 08:31:38 -0500 From: "Orma" Subject: Re: KR> Richmond, KY i39 flyin To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <001501c4fef4$5f8c1db0$0202a8c0@ROBBINS1> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Hello Net It would be real impressive if we could double number of KR's at our gathering this year . Hay!! Mark J. How many days left till the KR Gathering 2005?? Orma Southfield, MI N110LR celebrating 20 years Flying, flying and more flying http://www.kr-2.aviation-mechanics.com/ ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 07:52:43 -0600 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Fw: KR> KR2S CG spreadsheet To: Message-ID: <019701c4fef7$50e998c0$5e0ca58c@net.tbe.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" See message below, and link to Christian's spreadsheet at http://www.krnet.org/misc/stability_kr-2s.xls . Any questions should be probably be directed at Christian, and through KRnet would be fine, since others might have the same questions. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kogelmann Christian - OS TDA" Subject: RE: KR> AS 504X CofG I have an MS Excel File to determine the C/G (RAF48) and the stability of my airplane. I could not put it on my web page yet so I thought you might want to publish it. I had to do this for our authorities and of course they moved the allowable aft C/G forward..... In the File: HLW = Horizontal Stabilizer (including Elevator) And other German Expressions should be self explanatory (if not I will prepare a full english version) I have an input page for fuel and crew and based on the input the C/G moves in the chart. We did increase our HLW but did not manage to move the stability line out of the c/g range, there the authority will limit us at 29,5% C/G. If you think it is useful, you are welcome to publish it. Brgds Christian OE-VPD ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 07:55:52 -0600 From: Mark Jones Subject: RE: KR>How Many Days To: 'KRnet' Message-ID: <370D915E4564D611B0530050DABB9FC2025ED1C0@SIC-EXCHANGE> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" -----Original Message----- From: Orma Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 7:32 AM It would be real impressive if we could double number of KR's at our gathering this year . Hay!! Mark J. How many days left till the KR Gathering 2005?? Orma and everyone: That would be only 232 DAYS TILL THE GATHERING. Start making your plans to be there now. I will be flying my plane in this year however, I may be taking the UGLIEST KR award this year because I have a feeling once the weather finally lets me in the air, I may just fly it in primer for ever. Everyone get working on finishing up those KR's so we can have another record breaking Gathering. GET PUMPED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 16:05:42 +0200 From: "Stephen Jacobs" Subject: RE: KR> AS 504X CofG To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <000601c4fef9$27e1ae70$7564a8c0@stephen> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ... for a low-wing monoplane such as the KR, a starting point would be to use 18% and 34% of MAC. For a wing with a 48" MAC, that is roughly 8-1/2" to 16-1/2" aft of leading edge ..... +++++++++++++++++++++++ When someone starts asking questions about CG location, he or she may be pretty close to launching - so it is important that they get the right info in the correct context. The info provided by OZ is good and would be accurate and relevant for a constant chord wing - but for a KR the info is incomplete and could be misleading in a bad direction - tail heavy airplanes are dangerous. On a KR2 built to plan, the net taper (sweep) on the outboard wing is notably forward, thus the overall CG location is displaced fwd relative to the calculated position of the centre section. The builder that establishes an aft CG limit of x% back from the LE and measures this on the centre section will be have a CG aft of what he thinks - maybe as much as 2" further back. OZ's statement is correct: "a wing with a 48" MAC, that is roughly 8-1/2" to 16-1/2" aft of leading edge". However, the mean chord on a KR /KR2 is not 48". (and the planform is not symmetrical) Take care Steve J ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 09:18:05 -0600 From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR> AS 504X CofG To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >OZ's statement is correct: "a wing with a 48" MAC, that is roughly >8-1/2" to 16-1/2" aft of leading edge". > >However, the mean chord on a KR /KR2 is not 48". (and the planform is >not symmetrical) I guess that, more than anything, I was trying to figure out how Rand and Robinson arrived at their published CG range and the little exercise with the CAA rule of thumb seemed to point in the direction of an "aerial extraction". However, I could be wrong... they may have done some engineering and arrived at that range analytically, then verified it by test flying. I don't even have a KR... all I have is a manual and supplement, so I'm just throwing ideas around. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 18:54:17 +0200 From: "Stephen Jacobs" Subject: KR> AS 504X CofG - I wonder? To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <000001c4ff10$b3f03500$6764a8c0@stephen> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I guess that, more than anything, I was trying to figure out how Rand and Robinson arrived at their published CG range +++++++++++++++ Hey Oscar I found it interesting that your extrapolation came out within 1/2" of the RR numbers - almost as it they had also ignored the influence of the tapered outboard panels. Every informed opinion / pilot report that I have seen strongly suggests the same thing - the airplane gets unhappy with the CG in aft few inches of the range indicated by the designer. Maybe if the planform and true MAC were taken into consideration, the calculated CG range would be more acceptable. Take care Steve J PS - The Pete looks stunning - did it get dinged before or after you bought it? ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 10:28:36 -0500 From: VIRGIL N SALISBURY Subject: Re: KR> Richmond, KY i39 flyin To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20050120.152506.980.1.virgnvs@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii AND LAKELAND. Nice Dinner, Right , Virg On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 08:31:38 -0500 "Orma" writes: > Hello Net > > It would be real impressive if we could double number of KR's at our > > gathering this year . Hay!! Mark J. How many days left till the > KR > Gathering 2005?? > > Orma > Southfield, MI > N110LR celebrating 20 years > Flying, flying and more flying http://www.kr-2.aviation-mechanics.com/ > > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > Virgil N. Salisbury - AMSOIL www.lubedealer.com/salisbury Miami ,Fl ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 15:43:37 -0500 From: "Colin & Bev Rainey" Subject: KR> Prop To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <005501c4ff30$b7cf3660$9c402141@RaineyDay> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I have read for several years about only running wooden props with VW direct drive. Alittle research shows that the main reason was the crankshaft failures near the keyway on the tip of the crankshaft wear the hub is. The Force One hub was designed to prevent this type of failure. If I have a Force One, then I should be able to run any prop I want since this is designed to eliminate the breakage problem at the snout of crank. I would like to run a ground adjustable Warp Drive prop. Colin & Beverly Rainey Apex Lending, Inc. www.eloan2004cr.com crainey@apexlending.com 407-323-6960 ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 09:58:36 +1300 From: "Karl Pudney" Subject: RE: KR> AS 504X CofG To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ... for a low-wing monoplane such as the KR, a starting point would be to use 18% and 34% of MAC. For a wing with a 48" MAC, that is roughly 8-1/2" to 16-1/2" aft of leading edge ..... +++++++++++++++++++++++ Some interesting points from some of the more recent emails I decided to work out the mean wing cord taking the taper into account. These are based on the numbers on RR site for KR2S, 23ft wing span 82sqft wing area Wing area/wing span 82/23 = 3.56ft X 12 = 42.7 inches Using the 18% / 34% rule of thumb 42.7 X 18% = 7.7 inches 42.7 X 34% = 14.5 inches I thought that it was interesting that these figers are very close to what the guys with flying KRs are saying, 8 to 14 inches. Just some ideas to think about. Karl ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 22:27:38 +0200 From: "Dene Collett \(SA\)" Subject: Re: KR> AS 504X CofG To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <000001c4ff35$f0695140$37e5fea9@telkomsa127179> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi guys Thanks to everyone that tried to stear me in the right direction regarding CG location. I have really very limited knowledge of aerodynamics and have a few questions of how the CG is determined. The way I see it is this : After the "designer" has finished designing his aerofoil, he does some more calculations or some testing (wind tunnel?) to determine the CG range that the aerofoil is happy at regardless of what plane it will ultimately be used on. Then again I suppose that would depend on the amoumt of load the wing is expected to carry and the speed it is expected to carry it at. So if I stick to an ultimate aft limit of 30% MAC I should be OK??? By the way, what are the published figures that everyone talks about. I only have the remains of a very old manual and I guess that bit of info is missing. if it wasn't for two friends who had built three KRs between them, I might never have got this far. Mark, the tube is for the mains and yes it is a retract I'm afraid (all three wheels). I am basing the system on a design by Stelio Frati called the "Pinguino". I figured it took me nine years to get this far, I might as well try to produce something really unusual as well as not make it any heavier than the fixed gear. Thanks again guys. Cheers Dene Collett KR2S-RT builder Port Elizabeth South Africa mailto: dene.collett@telkomsa.net P.S: checkout www.whisperaircraft.com ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 14:31:18 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Elder Subject: Re: KR> Prop To: KRnet Message-ID: <20050120223118.75032.qmail@web30201.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I think the major reason that they want you to run a wood prop is the vibration dampening ability of the wood. Reciprocating engines inherently create power pulses, instead of a nice steady power output like, say, a jet turbine or electric motor. You have this mass of a propellor up front that has a certain inertia to it, and when the power pulses are transferred, that prop tries to resist... This creates a torsional stress (a fatigue stress at that), and if it gets bad enough for enough time, it will break something (usually the crank). The wood prop tends to dampen these pulses out (not to mention the inertia of the wood prop is USUALLY less than that of a composite or metal one). If you want to run a composite or metal prop (read something other than wood) then you really "should" have a dampener of some kind in the system.... Type IV rear drive units sold by GPASC come with an elastomeric dampener, and a lot of gear reduction drives have some kind of dampener built in. In general, it's not a good idea to run anything other than a wooden prop on an undamped direct drive setup... (unless of course the crank is designed with that fatigue cycle in mind) Matt --- Colin & Bev Rainey wrote: > I have read for several years about only running wooden props > with VW direct drive. Alittle research shows that the main > reason was the crankshaft failures near the keyway on the tip > of the crankshaft wear the hub is. The Force One hub was > designed to prevent this type of failure. If I have a Force > One, then I should be able to run any prop I want since this > is designed to eliminate the breakage problem at the snout of > crank. I would like to run a ground adjustable Warp Drive > prop. > > Colin & Beverly Rainey > Apex Lending, Inc. > www.eloan2004cr.com > crainey@apexlending.com > 407-323-6960 > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to > KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > ===== ------------------------------------------------- Matthew Elder Orangeburg, SC http://www.infinigral.com/melder ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 14:46:41 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Elder Subject: Re: KR> AS 504X CofG To: KRnet Message-ID: <20050120224642.85605.qmail@web30206.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Actually it's the other way around. The designer of the airfoil comes up with (emperically usually) a point known as the center of lift. The aircraft designer uses that information based on the mission of the aircraft. Assume that we are talking about conventional aircraft here (big wing in front, little wing in back) For most GA aircraft, the idea is to keep the CG of the aicraft ahead of the center of lift (nose heavy). This creates a pitching moment that pushes the nose of the aircraft towards the ground. The designer then sizes the tail accordingly to have enough force to overcome that pitching moment. IF he gets it right, the aircraft will be stable. If the center of lift and the center of gravity are coincident, the tail plane has to apply zero force to keep the aircraft level... however, this is akin to balancing a ball bearing on an up-side-down bowl or other convex surface.... The nose heavy condition will make the aircraft, in general, more stable, slower in cruise (due to more induced drag because the wing is carring more effective weight) and make landing distances longer. Stall speed will also usually increase, but with more of a tendancy to mush (again, in general). Controls will feel heavier as well. Yes, there is such as thing as too nose heavy. This is where the tail plane simply cannot apply the needed down force required to overcome the pitching moment created by the wing. Very bad when you are 3 feet off the runway and slow... The more towards the tail heavy end you go, up to the coincindence point, the more touchy (sometimes that can be fun) the aircraft becomes, and the faster it will fly (less induced drag). Stall speed will likely decrease, but it may make recovery longer. Control feel gets lighter as well. If you go too far aft, well lets just say that's not a good idea. Anyone that has flown a tail heavy aircraft, real, model or otherwise, knows what I'm talking about. I know that I have grossly generalized some information, but there are many good books on this subject alone if you want/need to get into the nitty-gritty. Hope this helps, Matt --- "Dene Collett (SA)" wrote: > Hi guys > Thanks to everyone that tried to stear me in the right > direction regarding > CG location. I have really very limited knowledge of > aerodynamics and have a > few questions of how the CG is determined. The way I see it is > this : After > the "designer" has finished designing his aerofoil, he does > some more > calculations or some testing (wind tunnel?) to determine the > CG range that > the aerofoil is happy at regardless of what plane it will > ultimately be used > on. Then again I suppose that would depend on the amoumt of > load the wing is > expected to carry and the speed it is expected to carry it at. > So if I stick to an ultimate aft limit of 30% MAC I should be > OK??? By the > way, what are the published figures that everyone talks about. > I only have > the remains of a very old manual and I guess that bit of info > is missing. if > it wasn't for two friends who had built three KRs between > them, I might > never have got this far. > Mark, the tube is for the mains and yes it is a retract I'm > afraid (all > three wheels). I am basing the system on a design by Stelio > Frati called the > "Pinguino". I figured it took me nine years to get this far, I > might as well > try to produce something really unusual as well as not make it > any heavier > than the fixed gear. > Thanks again guys. > Cheers > Dene Collett > KR2S-RT builder > Port Elizabeth > South Africa > mailto: dene.collett@telkomsa.net > P.S: checkout www.whisperaircraft.com > > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to > KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > ===== ------------------------------------------------- Matthew Elder Orangeburg, SC http://www.infinigral.com/melder ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 18:06:01 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" Subject: KR> fly it in primer for ever To: "krnet@mylist.net" Message-ID: <41F03959.000001.02112@DANHOMECOMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I know what you mean. I also know how I am and once I get this one flying, I am not going to want to stop. That is why I am trying to be patient and get the "hard to do later" things done now. It is taking longer, but we should be flying before May is over. Making cable attach brackets for carb, carb hear, and mixture. See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for building has expired. Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC See you in Mt. Vernon - 2005 - KR Gathering -------Original Message------- I have a feeling once the weather finally lets me in the air, I may just fly it in primer for ever. ------------------------------ Message: 17 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 18:30:44 -0500 From: VIRGIL N SALISBURY Subject: Re: KR> fly it in primer for ever To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20050120.183044.1748.0.virgnvs@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Painters out there??? I heard that Primer is NOT waterproof? Finish coat it some way soon. Virg On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 18:06:01 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) "Dan Heath" writes: > I know what you mean. I also know how I am and once I get this one > flying, > I am not going to want to stop. That is why I am trying to be > patient and > get the "hard to do later" things done now. It is taking longer, > but we > should be flying before May is over. > > Making cable attach brackets for carb, carb hear, and mixture. > > See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics > There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for > building > has expired. > Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC > See you in Mt. Vernon - 2005 - KR Gathering > -------Original Message------- > > I have a feeling once the weather finally lets me in the air, I may > just fly > it in > primer for ever. > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > Virgil N. Salisbury - AMSOIL www.lubedealer.com/salisbury Miami ,Fl ------------------------------ Message: 18 Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 09:48:31 +1000 From: "Barry Kruyssen" Subject: Re: KR> KR2S CG spreadsheet and AS 504* CofG To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <005c01c4ff4a$8da83390$d000a8c0@technologyonecorp.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Christian, great spreadsheet and thanks for sharing. The spreadsheet and the link http://exp-aircraft.com/library/heintz/stabilty.html (found in the spreadsheet) enable us to more accurately calculate the CofG ranges and determine the stable CofG range. In my opinion, using the calculations from the above link, if you increase the main wing area you must increase your horizontal stabilizer wing area OR move your horizontal stabilizer further back from the main wing. ELSE you will lessen the CofG range. (I was thinking of adding longer wing tips to decrease my stall speed, but not now without more investigation) I'll go to airport this weekend and measure my wings' accurately so I can apply the calculations to see what my CofG range is. This, as I see it, only gives me my rear CofG limit, or am I missing something. How do we calculate the forward CofG limit? Trial and error, too much forward CofG and we can't round out for landing, expensive and painful way to learn :-) The first of our monsoonal tropical rain depressions is here, so no flying for the last 2 days and the next few days :-( Time to finish of some of the things left to after first flight. Regards Barry Kruyssen Cairns, Australia RAA 19-3873 kr2@BigPond.com http://www.users.bigpond.com/kr2/kr2.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: Mark Langford See message below, and link to Christian's spreadsheet at http://www.krnet.org/misc/stability_kr-2s.xls . Any questions should be probably be directed at Christian, and through KRnet would be fine, since others might have the same questions. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kogelmann Christian - OS TDA" Subject: RE: KR> AS 504X CofG I have an MS Excel File to determine the C/G (RAF48) and the stability of my airplane. I could not put it on my web page yet so I thought you might want to publish it. I had to do this for our authorities and of course they moved the allowable aft C/G forward..... In the File: HLW = Horizontal Stabilizer (including Elevator) And other German Expressions should be self explanatory (if not I will prepare a full english version) I have an input page for fuel and crew and based on the input the C/G moves in the chart. We did increase our HLW but did not manage to move the stability line out of the c/g range, there the authority will limit us at 29,5% C/G. If you think it is useful, you are welcome to publish it. ------------------------------ Message: 19 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 19:03:38 -0500 From: "Stephen and Janet Henderson" Subject: Re: KR> fly it in primer for ever To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <001701c4ff4c$a8f4a820$02218585@host02> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Primer is not waterproof and Bondo will absorb water too. It is fine to wet-sand these two but it is not good for them to have repeated contact with water. I am assuming that this information is correct since it was what I was taught when I went to auto body school. Steve Henderson ----- Original Message ----- From: "VIRGIL N SALISBURY" To: Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 6:30 PM Subject: Re: KR> fly it in primer for ever > Painters out there??? I heard that Primer is NOT waterproof? > Finish coat > it some way soon. Virg > > On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 18:06:01 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) "Dan Heath" > writes: > > I know what you mean. I also know how I am and once I get this one > > flying, > > I am not going to want to stop. That is why I am trying to be > > patient and > > get the "hard to do later" things done now. It is taking longer, > > but we > > should be flying before May is over. > > > > Making cable attach brackets for carb, carb hear, and mixture. > > > > See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics > > There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for > > building > > has expired. > > Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC > > See you in Mt. Vernon - 2005 - KR Gathering > > -------Original Message------- > > > > I have a feeling once the weather finally lets me in the air, I may > > just fly > > it in > > primer for ever. > > _______________________________________ > > Search the KRnet Archives at > > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > > > > > Virgil N. Salisbury - AMSOIL > www.lubedealer.com/salisbury > Miami ,Fl > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 20 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 18:16:06 -0600 From: "Mark Jones" Subject: Re: KR> fly it in primer for ever To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <003a01c4ff4e$6c3ebf40$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" The only water my airplane will repeatedly see is the humidity in the air. Surely you guys do not believe the statement that I will fly it in primer forever. My airplane is hangered now and as soon as the weather permits, I will begin the task of finishing the body work and painting my plane. I approached an airbrush artist with a design I wanted but he quoted me $5K and I backed down. I now have other sources who would love to do the airbrush work to have a painted airplane in their portfolio. It will only cost me the materials and no labor.........want to do the same? Go to your local college and post an ad on the bulletin board in the art department. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen and Janet Henderson" To: "KRnet" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 6:03 PM Subject: Re: KR> fly it in primer for ever > Primer is not waterproof and Bondo will absorb water too. It is fine to > wet-sand these two but it is not good for them to have repeated contact with > water. I am assuming that this information is correct since it was what I > was taught when I went to auto body school. > > Steve Henderson > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "VIRGIL N SALISBURY" > To: > Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 6:30 PM > Subject: Re: KR> fly it in primer for ever > > > > Painters out there??? I heard that Primer is NOT waterproof? > > Finish coat > > it some way soon. Virg > > > > On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 18:06:01 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) "Dan Heath" > > writes: > > > I know what you mean. I also know how I am and once I get this one > > > flying, > > > I am not going to want to stop. That is why I am trying to be > > > patient and > > > get the "hard to do later" things done now. It is taking longer, > > > but we > > > should be flying before May is over. > > > > > > Making cable attach brackets for carb, carb hear, and mixture. > > > > > > See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics > > > There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for > > > building > > > has expired. > > > Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC > > > See you in Mt. Vernon - 2005 - KR Gathering > > > -------Original Message------- > > > > > > I have a feeling once the weather finally lets me in the air, I may > > > just fly > > > it in > > > primer for ever. > > > _______________________________________ > > > Search the KRnet Archives at > > > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > > > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > > > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > > > > > > > > > > Virgil N. Salisbury - AMSOIL > > www.lubedealer.com/salisbury > > Miami ,Fl > > > > _______________________________________ > > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 30 ************************************** ================================== ABC Amber Outlook Converter v4.20 Trial version ==================================