From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net To: John Bouyea Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 308 Date: 8/15/2005 9:00:15 PM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: I finally updated my web page (cartera) 2. Re: Epoxy (Mikensandystff@aol.com) 3. Re: Epoxy (Ron Eason) 4. Getting rid of metal airplane ( rparker ) 5. Re: RE: KR> Foam (Brian Kraut) 6. Re: Rum Cake for Foam (Allen Wiesner ) 7. RE: Foam (larry flesner) 8. pitot/static location, problems (larry flesner) 9. Intake Manifold (Allen Wiesner ) 10. How sweet it is!!! (Mark Jones) 11. Re: How sweet it is!!! (Steven Phillabaum) 12. Re: RE: KR> Foam (Steven Phillabaum) 13. Intake manifold (Colin & Bev Rainey) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 11:36:12 -0600 From: cartera Subject: Re: KR> I finally updated my web page To: KRnet Message-ID: <4300D28C.3020302@spots.ab.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Good Morning Al, I really don't care which is which, why are excuses put forth rather than just remedy it? Take a look at AFY that's the way it should be! My DOT inspector who was also a personal friend mentioned this to me that is was not going to work right, but I told him I wanted to try it anyway and he was right, you see the wing splits the slip stream and this is what causes it, dead air in front of the leading edge. Static and pitot should be together like AFY to minimize error, is you put the static in the fuse/cockpit you will always have a undetermined differential, unless you have the proper testing equipment. Your on your own! Adrian Al Hawkins wrote: >Hi Adrian > >It is reading about 95 Knots when the GPS is reading 110 Knots. I think >it has more to do with the static port location more than the pitot >tube. > >Al > >-----Original Message----- >From: krnet-bounces+awh.hawkins=telus.net@mylist.net >[mailto:krnet-bounces+awh.hawkins=telus.net@mylist.net] On Behalf Of >cartera >Sent: August 14, 2005 9:42 PM >To: KRnet >Subject: Re: KR> I finally updated my web page > > >Hi Al, >Real nice home page, looks like a lot of room in that hanger ;). Only >two things that I wonder about is the location of your pitot/static >think that is why your only reading 110mph should be much higher and of >course the prop, should be a larger pitch. You know Robert has a copy >of my plug, why don't you guys get together and build another. If >pitot/static should stick out at least 18" anything shorter and it >won't read true. Originally I put my p/s where you have yours but, mine >was a lot shorter about 10" and when I went on my maiden it just went >up to 40mph and that's were is stayed. When I came in to land I must >have been doing 100mph, our runway is 12,600' long and I still had not >touched down as I passed the tower which is about halfway. When I >taxied back to the hanger I had it cut out in about 5 mins and >relocated where it is now. Just hope your Posa keeps working >;)............. Happy Flying, Guy! Adrian > >Al Hawkins wrote: > > > >>Hey guys >> >>I have updated my webpage with new photos and a couple of video clips, >>see URL in signature. >> >>Al Hawkins >>KR2 C-GDPU >>Port Coquitlam, B.C. >>Canada >> >>http://www3.telus.net/public/a4a19967/index.html >> >>_______________________________________ >>Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >>to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net >>please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > >_______________________________________ >Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net >please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > >_______________________________________ >Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net >please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > > > ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 13:45:28 EDT From: Mikensandystff@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> Epoxy To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" I used "Elmer's" ultimate glue. It's polyurethane. It's water activated and easy to work with. Like all products in this category it does have some draw backs though as the bonding seam is a little hard to sand as compared to sanding the bonded foam. Overall though I have been very pleased with the results. The best thing about it is that you can find it at any good lumber and building supply store for about $13.00 to $14.00 dollars U.S.(16 fl oz.) I found it here in Louisiana at "Home Depot". ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 14:09:40 -0500 From: "Ron Eason" Subject: Re: KR> Epoxy To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <007001c5a1cc$e33dddd0$6601a8c0@CADENGINEERING> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original I've use it on all my none epoxy bonding, Wood also. Use epoxy where required though. I fills spaces between foam. It actually reinforces the joint compression wise. Use it with microballoons to make it more sandable. Ron ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 12:45 PM Subject: Re: KR> Epoxy >I used "Elmer's" ultimate glue. It's polyurethane. It's water activated >and easy to work with. Like all products in this category it does have >some draw backs though as the bonding seam is a little hard to sand >as compared to sanding the bonded foam. Overall though I have been >very pleased with the results. > The best thing about it is that you can find it at any good lumber and > building supply store for about $13.00 to $14.00 dollars U.S.(16 fl oz.) > I found > it here in Louisiana at "Home Depot". > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 14:53:16 -0500 From: " rparker " Subject: KR> Getting rid of metal airplane To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20050815195316.12986.qmail@server278.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" FYI, For any metal airplane lurkers on the list or anyone who cant wait to get their KR completed and wants to fly in the meantime, I just put my Titan Tornado project up for sale on E-bay so that I can focus on my KR. The e-bay item number is 4569007768 Rich Parker ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 16:58:05 -0400 From: "Brian Kraut" Subject: Re: RE: KR> Foam To: KRnet Message-ID: <200508151658.AA23199934@mail.engalt.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I think I have found the ultimate solution, stale cake or bread. It is rigid, light weight, low cost, easy to shape, and much better on the environment than urethane foam. Use rum cake and we will all be singing the “I Lub Sandbling” song. Now if I could just find an AS5048 cake pan and a real big oven… ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Reply-To: KRnet Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 8:23:03 -0500 >Have you compared the weight of the two foams? I think the rigidity of >the foam is important. You could not put on one layer of glass on the >wings, then remove the foam and expect the properties to be the same. >This is a "Sandwich" construction, which, to me, means that the stuff >in the middle is integral to the properties of the end product. > >Your result WILL vary. > >Dan. > > >From: "Ulinski, Val" >Date: 2005/08/15 Mon AM 07:07:12 CDT >To: "KRnet" >Subject: RE: KR> Foam > >Thanks Larry. I am familiar rigid foams. My question is how much >rigidity of the foam is actually required, once the carbon fiber or >glass is cured. The minicell foam is semi rigid, flexible, can't be >broken and springs back when compressed. It has 2/3's of the >compression strength of the same 2# polystyrene (pink stuff they by at >Home Depot) > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net] On >Behalf Of larry flesner >Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 8:52 PM >To: KRnet >Subject: Re: KR> Foam > >> >>I am looking at 2# Minicell foam. They tell me it is used for cushions >>but I see it as a good foam for construction as well Anyone have >>experience with it? VUlinski >++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > >It sounds to me like you are looking at a "flexable" foam if it is used >for cushions. The foam used in constructing a KR is a "rigid" foam >,and when 1 or 2 inches thick, will flex very little without breaking. >The foam used in the KR will not compress without damage. > >Could you give additional info on what exactly you are looking at? > >Larry Flesner > > > >_______________________________________ >Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net >please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > >_____________________________________________________________________ >Disclaimer >This email transmission is confidential and intended solely for the >person or organization to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not copy, distribute or disseminate the information, or take any action in reliance of it. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of any organisation or employer. If you have received this message in error, do not open any attachment but please notify the sender (above) deleting this message from your system. Please rely on your own virus check no responsibility is taken by the sender for any damage rising out of any bug or virus infection. >_____________________________________________________________________ >Cross Hüller North America has implemented a policy such that this message has been checked for all known viruses by the MessageLabs Virus Scanning Service. For further information visit >http://www.messagelabs.com/stats.asp > > >_____________________________________________________________________ >Disclaimer >This email transmission is confidential and intended solely for the >person or organization to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not copy, distribute or disseminate the information, or take any action in reliance of it. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of any organisation or employer. If you have received this message in error, do not open any attachment but please notify the sender (above) deleting this message from your system. Please rely on your own virus check no responsibility is taken by the sender for any damage rising out of any bug or virus infection. >_____________________________________________________________________ >Cross Hüller North America has implemented a policy such that this message has been checked for all known viruses by the MessageLabs Virus Scanning Service. For further information visit >http://www.messagelabs.com/stats.asp > >_______________________________________ >Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net >please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > >_______________________________________ >Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net >please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the WebMail system at mail.engalt.com ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 17:30:36 -0400 From: "Allen Wiesner " Subject: KR> Re: Rum Cake for Foam To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <001b01c5a1e0$942a17e0$3413da42@CPQ69645694259> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" But if some mice get into the Rum Cake, they'll be too drunk to hold hands and there goes all the strength of the sandwich! :-( On the other hand, if you crash in the boonies, you have some emergency rations. :-) Allen G. Wiesner KR-2SS/TD S/N 1118 65 Franklin Street Ansonia, CT 06401-1240 (203) 732-0508 flashyal@usadatanet.net ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 17:24:50 -0500 From: larry flesner Subject: RE: KR> Foam To: KRnet Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20050815172450.00826a00@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >I am going to do some "mock up sections" and test the strength against >the "normal" foam. What kind of foam are you using? ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ I used the polyurethane foam call for in the plans. Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 17:25:16 -0500 From: larry flesner Subject: KR> pitot/static location, problems To: KRnet Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20050815172516.00826a00@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" the wing splits the slip stream and this is what causes it, dead air >in front of the >leading edge. Static and pitot should be together like AFY to minimize >error, >Adrian ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ The system outlined on page 74 of the manual works just fine with very little error, or at least it does in my case. The manual cautions you to extend the pitot/static tubes at least 2 1/2 inches below the wing to eliminate error. I think I went about 4 inches with mine and it appears to be accurate to within a few mph at cruise. In a no wind condition it matches my GPS ground speed to within 2 or 3 mph. It is less accurate at high angles of attack as any fixed system will be. The best part is that it doesn't get broken off or bent from people walking in to it. The lead edge of my P/S tubes are behind the lead edge of the wing. To mount, cut a small rectangular piece of thin aluminum, drill two holes for the P/S tubes that touch each other, form the alum to the shape of the lower wing surface, slip the alum over the tubes and use some 5 min epoxy (JB Weld,etc.) to secure the tubes to each other and to the alum plate. Use screws or bolts through the skin to attach. Some type of reinforcement on the back side would be advisable. Scrape out some foam on the inside and flox in a small piece of alum or 3/32" ply with some blind nuts or equivelent. If I had P/S tubes that extended even 10 inches forward of the lead edge and there were hugh errors, I'd be looking for other problems in the system besides the P/S location / length. I've seen a 4 inch pitot tube sticking out of the nose of a pusher that seemed to work just fine. As always, your results may vary......... Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 19:34:13 -0400 From: "Allen Wiesner " Subject: KR> Intake Manifold To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <001001c5a1f1$d905bf70$aa16da42@CPQ69645694259> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I have another idea for attaching an intake manifold to the head. I am only half done so far so I can't say how well it will work. No photos yet either. I have removed the outer carb. stud flange by making a horizontal cut just inboard of the head manifold. I am in the process of shaving the rest of the carb. flange to about 1/16" above the top of the manifold and have already removed the other stud ear from the outside of the manifold. I plan to re-weld the carb. stud flange to the outside of the manifold by using a jig/pattern so thatit is in the same position that it had before, just lower. I will then finish shaving the top of the manifold, including the top of the re-welded lug, to get a smooth mounting surface. As I see it, this will allow me to use the standard carb. gasket, use one of Pat Panzera's flanges welded to a 90 degree tube, hold it on with a couple of cap screws, and have a reasonably low profile.. Allen G. Wiesner KR-2SS/TD S/N 1118 65 Franklin Street Ansonia, CT 06401-1240 (203) 732-0508 flashyal@usadatanet.net ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 19:43:51 -0500 From: "Mark Jones" Subject: KR> How sweet it is!!! To: "Corvaircraft" , "KR Net" Message-ID: <002301c5a1fb$93d06ae0$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" There just simply is nothing as satisfying as flying a KR-2S with a healthy Corvair engine up front. I just returned from my fourth flight in four days. A flight a day keeps the doctor away. And speaking of doctors...I passed my flight physical this morning so I am good for two more years. Thank God! The last four flights I made have been totally uneventful. It is a wonderful feeling to not to be worrying about the engine while flying. My newly rebuilt engine is not leaking a drop of oil nor is it blowing any out the breather. Today, I achieved 148 mph on the GPS while in straight and level flight. Oil temp 180°, CHT 295°, ET 1250°, OP 35 psi, Volts 14.5. I am Gathering bound in my KR-2S. It is still in primer, has no wheel pants, has no spinner, has exposed hinges and still needs some filling to smooth her out but I am having a blast and I am flying to the Gathering. With my plane in this stage of being finished, you can see how a lot of things will be prior to finishing. YEEEEEEEEEEEHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 24 days, count 'em, only 24 days to go. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 21:49:03 -0400 From: Steven Phillabaum Subject: Re: KR> How sweet it is!!! To: KRnet Message-ID: <48vheq$15kf7qj@mxip02a.cluster1.charter.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Thats AUsome Mark. also People at KLGC are looking forward to your visit. > > From: "Mark Jones" Subject: KR> How sweet it is!!! > > There just simply is nothing as satisfying as flying a KR-2S with a healthy > Corvair engine up front. I just returned from my fourth flight in four days. > A flight a day keeps the doctor away. And speaking of doctors...I passed my > flight physical this morning so I am good for two more years. Thank God! > The last four flights I made have been totally uneventful. It is a wonderful > feeling to not to be worrying about the engine while flying. My newly > rebuilt engine is not leaking a drop of oil nor is it blowing any out the > breather. Today, I achieved 148 mph on the GPS while in straight and level > flight. Oil temp 180°, CHT 295°, ET 1250°, OP 35 psi, Volts 14.5. > I am Gathering bound in my KR-2S. It is still in primer, has no wheel pants, > has no spinner, has exposed hinges and still needs some filling to smooth > her out but I am having a blast and I am flying to the Gathering. With my > plane in this stage of being finished, you can see how a lot of things will > be prior to finishing. YEEEEEEEEEEEHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA > > 24 days, count 'em, only 24 days to go. Steven Phillabaum KR2S; 5048; corvair; Auburn, Alabama ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 21:53:01 -0400 From: Steven Phillabaum Subject: Re: RE: KR> Foam To: KRnet Message-ID: <4404j6$197k14o@mxip20a.cluster1.charter.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Just build as per plans or look into the long list of discussions concerning Foam on the net. You are going to spend a long time building. You don't want to waste it re designing the wheel. But I will be glad to look at the results you get from your research. Looking forward to hearing your input. Steven Phillabaum KR2S; 5048; corvair; Auburn, Alabama ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 22:08:45 -0400 From: "Colin & Bev Rainey" Subject: KR> Intake manifold To: Message-ID: <00c401c5a207$6f0c8750$3a412141@RaineyDay> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Recently I have taken the position to allow others to comment and just read, seeing how others have the answers, and my time being short due to the new job. However, this one needs a comment... A point to remember when changing intake manifold designs is what makes what kind of power. Long skinny runners with gentle curves make great power in low to mid rpms with great throttle response, sacrificing top end power for better mid range and beginning rpm response, which is typical of a bone stock car. Larger runners with shorter lengths and straight shots to the heads make great power mid to high rpm, but suffer badly on the bottom end due to the lack of vacuum signal to the carb. Just take a look at a modern ProStock Dragster. They are also prone to having fuel vapor linger in the plenum chamber area directly below the carb, and then get swept into the next cylinder causing a lean rich condition at or near idle rpm. Sharp corners, drastic changes in port sizes from a large plenum, big carbs and large plenums, all hurt performance of the chosen parts, and tend to favor just one rpm band neglecting the others to produce a narrow range of operation. How many of us are actually going to see the rpms that the changes are for: most of us Corvair and VW alike stay in the low to midrange rpms all the time, even on takeoff (3000-3500 rpm vs. redlines of 5500 to 6000 rpm). The carb is spaced up from the turn into the head because if the turn is too sharp, then the air out runs the gas causing it to puddle in the plenum area and then get sucked into the next cylinder, rich lean surge is the result. Also oversized carbs tend to make the engine SLOW down at wide open throttle instead of speed up due to the carbs ability to give more air than the engine can actually use. Consult the Auto Mathbook available at any auto parts store or Barnes & Noble, and you can calculate the CFM requirements of your engine yourself and see what I mean about carb selection. Be careful when you begin modifying things that 100s of hours on the dyno with way more experienced technicians who were being paid to spend 8 hours a day to work out the bugs on the engine, and its successive different versions. I don't know any of us that have that much free time to experiment, and frankly I want to fly. Colin Rainey KSFB Sanford, FL. ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 308 *************************************** ================================== ABC Amber Outlook Converter v4.20 Trial version ==================================