From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net To: John Bouyea Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 314 Date: 8/19/2005 1:45:42 PM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. R?f. : KR> pitot/static location, problems (Serge VIDAL) 2. R?f. : Re: KR> tappets adjustments (Serge VIDAL) 3. R?f. : KR> RE:Lead exposure (Serge VIDAL) 4. R?f. : R?f. : Re: KR> tappets adjustments (Serge VIDAL) 5. RE: Gathering attendees (Bob Lee) 6. LSA alternative (rhartwig11@juno.com) 7. Re: LSA ???????? (Dan Heath) 8. Re: pitot/static location (larry flesner) 9. Re: LSA ???????? (Bob Glidden) 10. Re: Barnstormer KR (Jeff Scott) 11. pitot/static location, problems (larry flesner) 12. A Riddle, a Plea, and a Thank You (richardanddonya@cox.net) 13. R?f. : KR> pitot/static location, problems (Serge VIDAL) 14. Re: A Riddle, a Plea, and a Thank You (JAMES FERRIS) 15. Re: A Riddle, a Plea, and a Thank You (Ron Eason) 16. Re: tappets adjustments (Joe Beyer) 17. Re: Vision LSA alternative (DENE COLLETT (SA)) 18. Gathering-Bound!! (richardanddonya@cox.net) 19. Re: Auto Fuel/Avgas (Joe Beyer) 20. Re: tappets adjustments (Mark Langford) 21. Re: Re: Auto Fuel/Avgas (Dan Walker) 22. Avgas/Mogas & Ellison (JIM VANCE) 23. RE: Avgas/Mogas & Ellison (Mark Jones) 24. Re: RE: KR> Avgas/Mogas & Ellison (danrh@alltel.net) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 10:37:17 +0200 From: Serge VIDAL Subject: R?f. : KR> pitot/static location, problems To: KRnet Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" My Pitot/Static was built as per plans, and extended about 100mm below the wing. I, too, was getting very accurate results. Only difference with your set up: it is clamped to the outer rib of the left hand stubwing. Incidentally, I just rebuilt my Pitot/Static unit, because the previous one was a bit on the heavy side, and tended to rust. But since it worked perfect and very accurately, I simply replicated it with nicer tubing (anodinized aluminum). Also, I glued bullet shaped metal pencil tips to the openings, to make it look nicer. The gain in weight is about 60 grams, and the new look is stunning. Serge Vidal KR2 "Kilimanjaro Cloud" Paris, France larry flesner Envoyé par : krnet-bounces+serge.vidal=sagem.com@mylist.net 2005-08-16 00:25 Veuillez répondre à KRnet Remis le : 2005-08-16 00:26 Pour : KRnet cc : (ccc : Serge VIDAL/DNSA/SAGEM) Objet : KR> pitot/static location, problems the wing splits the slip stream and this is what causes it, dead air >in front of the >leading edge. Static and pitot should be together like AFY to minimize >error, >Adrian ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ The system outlined on page 74 of the manual works just fine with very little error, or at least it does in my case. The manual cautions you to extend the pitot/static tubes at least 2 1/2 inches below the wing to eliminate error. I think I went about 4 inches with mine and it appears to be accurate to within a few mph at cruise. In a no wind condition it matches my GPS ground speed to within 2 or 3 mph. It is less accurate at high angles of attack as any fixed system will be. The best part is that it doesn't get broken off or bent from people walking in to it. The lead edge of my P/S tubes are behind the lead edge of the wing. To mount, cut a small rectangular piece of thin aluminum, drill two holes for the P/S tubes that touch each other, form the alum to the shape of the lower wing surface, slip the alum over the tubes and use some 5 min epoxy (JB Weld,etc.) to secure the tubes to each other and to the alum plate. Use screws or bolts through the skin to attach. Some type of reinforcement on the back side would be advisable. Scrape out some foam on the inside and flox in a small piece of alum or 3/32" ply with some blind nuts or equivelent. If I had P/S tubes that extended even 10 inches forward of the lead edge and there were hugh errors, I'd be looking for other problems in the system besides the P/S location / length. I've seen a 4 inch pitot tube sticking out of the nose of a pusher that seemed to work just fine. As always, your results may vary......... Larry Flesner _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 11:20:25 +0200 From: Serge VIDAL Subject: R?f. : Re: KR> tappets adjustments To: KRnet Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" That is unless you have a Type 4 with hydraulic lfiters. Serge Vidal KR2 "Kilimanjaro Cloud" Paris, France "Dan Heath" Envoyé par : krnet-bounces+serge.vidal=sagem.com@mylist.net 2005-08-18 00:39 Veuillez répondre à KRnet Remis le : 2005-08-18 00:39 Pour : cc : (ccc : Serge VIDAL/DNSA/SAGEM) Objet : Re: KR> tappets adjustments SOP for a VW engine. You will need to adjust the valves at least every 25 hours. I used to do it almost every time I had the cowling off. On the old Beetle, you would adjust the valves every oil change. If you do the adjustment properly and often, you will not have any problems with them. However, hydraulics do sound nice, but I remember hearing some negative stuff about them, but your results will vary. See you in Mt. Vernon - 2005 - KR Gathering See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for building has expired. Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC -------Original Message------- i keep hearing about tappet adjustments closing right up or needing doing every5-10 hrs or so _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 11:29:51 +0200 From: Serge VIDAL Subject: R?f. : KR> RE:Lead exposure To: KRnet Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Oh, yeah! Lead poinsoning is nasty! Actually, I reckon it was the first cause of death in South Africa when I was living there - although it was bullet-induced! ;-) Serge Vidal KR2 "Kilimanjaro Cloud" Paris, France w.higdon9604@comcast.net Envoyé par : krnet-bounces@mylist.net 2005-08-19 01:46 Veuillez répondre à KRnet Remis le : 2005-08-19 01:48 Pour : KRnet cc : (ccc : Serge VIDAL/DNSA/SAGEM) Objet : KR> RE:Lead exposure Sydney, Other side effects of lead ingestion include settling in the bones causing Chronic Hypertension, and it causes mental illness. there is a lot of evidence to conclude it help cause a lot of the problems the ruling class of the Romans suffered during the latter part of the Roman Empire. Bill Higdon > One compound that refiners added to gasoline, both automotive and aviation, was > tetra-ethyl lead. This improved the anti-knock or detonation properties for the > high octane fuels such as 100, 115, 130, etc. aviation fuels. The EPA banned > the use of leaded fuels for automotive applications and is pushing hard for the > same ban on 100 LL. Problems with leaded fuels are sticking exhaust valves and > rings, burned exhaust valves, corroded exhaust pipes and mufflers, fouled spark > plugs and plaque in carburetors and fuel injectors. Actually the EPA was not > concerned so much about engines and such, but what the free lead in the exhaust > emissions was doing to people. Problems cited were still borne and deformed > babies, and retarded kids from lead poisoning. Adults are not immune from such > nerve damage either. > > My understanding is there were no production engines designed to run on leaded > fuel per se. Rather the designs were for a specific octane fuel. Compression > ratio is the design parameter. The cheap way to get the high octane fuel to > perform correctly was to add the tetra-ethyl lead. Refiners did figure out how > to make high octane fuels work without the lead, such as the automotive gasoline > we use and pay dearly for today. > > Sid Wood > Tri-gear KR-2 N6242 > Mechanicsville, MD, USA > Sidney.wood@titan.com > _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 11:31:44 +0200 From: Serge VIDAL Subject: R?f. : R?f. : Re: KR> tappets adjustments To: KRnet Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" That meant lifters, of course. Serge VIDAL Envoyé par : krnet-bounces+serge.vidal=sagem.com@mylist.net 2005-08-19 11:20 Veuillez répondre à KRnet Remis le : 2005-08-19 11:21 Pour : KRnet cc : (ccc : Serge VIDAL/DNSA/SAGEM) Objet : Réf. : Re: KR> tappets adjustments That is unless you have a Type 4 with hydraulic lfiters. Serge Vidal KR2 "Kilimanjaro Cloud" Paris, France "Dan Heath" Envoyé par : krnet-bounces+serge.vidal=sagem.com@mylist.net 2005-08-18 00:39 Veuillez répondre à KRnet Remis le : 2005-08-18 00:39 Pour : cc : (ccc : Serge VIDAL/DNSA/SAGEM) Objet : Re: KR> tappets adjustments SOP for a VW engine. You will need to adjust the valves at least every 25 hours. I used to do it almost every time I had the cowling off. On the old Beetle, you would adjust the valves every oil change. If you do the adjustment properly and often, you will not have any problems with them. However, hydraulics do sound nice, but I remember hearing some negative stuff about them, but your results will vary. See you in Mt. Vernon - 2005 - KR Gathering See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for building has expired. Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC -------Original Message------- i keep hearing about tappet adjustments closing right up or needing doing every5-10 hrs or so _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 06:59:42 -0400 From: "Bob Lee" Subject: RE: KR> Gathering attendees To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <00c801c5a4ad$1ac765e0$210c0b0a@bubba9> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Mark Jones asked: << Larry, can you update this list? >> The preregistration list has been updated this morning as of 06:00 EDT. We are still at 79 registrations. It can be found at: http://krgathering.org/pre-reg-form.htm. Regards, Bob Lee ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 06:34:32 -0500 From: rhartwig11@juno.com Subject: KR> LSA alternative To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20050819.063432.3356.1.rhartwig11@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Colin wrote: "The way I read what you cut and pasted is the same thing that has been said all along. If by chance the aircraft receives an Experimental Certificate for operations AS an LSA or ELSA then a Sport Pilot can operate it. If not he is disqualified from its operation even if it is flown solo." Colin, I have to comment on your statement--it is worded in a way that could confuse a "KRSport" builder or a Sport Pilot who wants to fly a Pietenpol built several years ago. Experimental certificates for homebuilts are not issued for LSA or E-LSA operations--those are three distinctly different types of certification. Any Experimental that has met the weight, performance, etc. of an LSA at the time of certification and is not at any time modified to go beyond those limits is Sport Pilot eligible. "No more than two seats" is one of the requirements. Dick Hartwig rhartwig11@juno.com ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 07:48:36 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) From: "Dan Heath" Subject: Re: KR> LSA ???????? To: Message-ID: <4305C714.000021.02836@DANHOMECOMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I really don't want to discourage anyone from building a KR or from participating on the KR-net, but it seems to me that this LSA issue has been beaten to death many times over, and that the general consensus is that even if you could build a "KR" that would qualify, that it would not be a KR, in fact, it could not be a KR and still qualify. There does not seem to be any more information that can be squeezed from this population of KR builders that can help the LSA builder. All the information that can be gleaned from this group is already in the archives. What I do want to suggest, is that the LSA builders, get a forum where they can really explore all the possibilities and really do some good for the LSA population. See you in Mt. Vernon - 2005 - KR Gathering See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for building has expired. Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 07:47:48 -0500 From: larry flesner Subject: Re: KR> pitot/static location To: KRnet Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20050819074748.0081f2f0@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 09:14 AM 8/18/05 -0300, you wrote: >Hi Larry > >Have you ay pics of that? > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ The picture is not a real closeup but you can see it at: http://www.krnet.org/mvn2004/040929270.jpg I might be able to find a better one given some time. Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 08:49:09 -0500 From: "Bob Glidden" Subject: Re: KR> LSA ???????? To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <002601c5a332$715f7220$2d0110ac@ecentre.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" AAAAAAAAAAAman!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! thank you Dan > I really don't want to discourage anyone from building a KR or from > participating on the KR-net, but it seems to me that this LSA issue has been > beaten to death many times over, and that the general consensus is that even > if you could build a "KR" that would qualify, that it would not be a KR, in > fact, it could not be a KR and still qualify. ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 13:10:53 GMT From: "Jeff Scott" Subject: Re: KR> Barnstormer KR To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20050819.061058.8422.56474@webmail06.lax.untd.com> Content-Type: text/plain I looked at the Barnstormer's link Robert listed below and noted that Calvin Campbell's KR was there listed as a wrecked rebuilder. (with some very low prices for some of the parts!) Anyone know the story behind that? -Jeff Scott -- "Robert L. Stone" wrote: Hi Ryan, Check "BARNSTORMERS" at http://www.barnstormers.com/cat.php go to the Experemental section under KR aircraft and you may find one there for sale. There are always some KR aircraft being offered. Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx rstone4@hot.rr.com ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 08:22:06 -0500 From: larry flesner Subject: KR> pitot/static location, problems To: KRnet Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20050819082206.00805ae0@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Also, I glued bullet shaped metal pencil tips to >the openings, to make it look nicer. >Serge Vidal +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Serge, Caution on adding anything near the lead edge of the pitot/static tubes as this may cause the unit to be less accurate. One method to correct errors in the system is placing an "air dam" such as a washer or other buildup on the static tube to effect the static pressure. Just be aware that it may not have the same accuracy on your first flight. Sometimes we shoot ourselfs in the foot just polishing the pistol !! :-) Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 10:01:13 -0400 From: Subject: KR> A Riddle, a Plea, and a Thank You To: KRnet Message-ID: <20050819140113.FLRL9925.eastrmmtao04.cox.net@smtp.east.cox.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 What's the difference between a KR that goes 140, 160, or 180? None... Aerocrafter says they all go 200! Kidding aside, powerplant, prop, and airfoil (ok, and weight and drag and...). In the end, aren't we each building unique aircraft derived from the same heritage? Is a KR with a new airfoil, or an enlarged stab still a KR? Probably not in the strictest sense, but in spirit absolutely! Almost all of us who are building, are building custom aircraft with widely varying performance. I'm probably the newest newbie here. I sense there's a "go fast" crowd here and a much smaller "speed limit" crowd. We've all chosen to build planes based on the same KR heritage, because they're beautiful and efficient and economical. My opinion, we should all continue to learn from each other even if our design goals are different. So anyway, many thanks to everyone who jumped in to beat my dead LSA horse. I learned a lot more than I had from reading the archives. Looking forward to meeting you all in ** 20 DAYS ** !! -------------------- Richard Rankin EAA 688891 N328FT (reserved) richardanddonya (at) cox (dot) net Tulsa, OK -------------------- ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 16:05:57 +0200 From: Serge VIDAL Subject: R?f. : KR> pitot/static location, problems To: KRnet Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Don't worry. The bullet-shaped tips are neatly added to the tubes without changing their inner diameter . Actually, I could have done the same by reshaping the tubes end. It should work, and if it doesn't, the fix is easy: just cut the tips off. I should actually have less turbulent air flow in that area, thanks to the more aerodynamic shape at the Pitot inlet (surely, a straight cut in a tube should be worse than a taper). And who wants to flash a rusted pistol anyway? ;-) Serge Vidal larry flesner Envoyé par : krnet-bounces@mylist.net 2005-08-19 15:22 Veuillez répondre à KRnet Remis le : 2005-08-19 15:24 Pour : KRnet cc : (ccc : Serge VIDAL/DNSA/SAGEM) Objet : KR> pitot/static location, problems Also, I glued bullet shaped metal pencil tips to >the openings, to make it look nicer. >Serge Vidal +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Serge, Caution on adding anything near the lead edge of the pitot/static tubes as this may cause the unit to be less accurate. One method to correct errors in the system is placing an "air dam" such as a washer or other buildup on the static tube to effect the static pressure. Just be aware that it may not have the same accuracy on your first flight. Sometimes we shoot ourselfs in the foot just polishing the pistol !! :-) Larry Flesner _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2005 10:15:16 -0400 From: JAMES FERRIS Subject: Re: KR> A Riddle, a Plea, and a Thank You To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20050820.101516.1964.0.mijnil@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii We are mostly into KR-2 and KR-2S right now but there are other KR airplanes, recall the KR-1 and the KR-3 which were very different than the KR-2 and if Ken were alive today you can bet there would be a KRLSA design. I don't think you are off subject. Jim ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 11:57:21 -0500 From: "Ron Eason" Subject: Re: KR> A Riddle, a Plea, and a Thank You To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <004701c5a4df$1132a080$6601a8c0@CADENGINEERING> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original I think everyone can agree to this statement. KRRon ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "KRnet" Sent: Friday, August 19, 2005 9:01 AM Subject: KR> A Riddle, a Plea, and a Thank You > What's the difference between a KR that goes 140, 160, or 180? None... > Aerocrafter says they all go 200! > > Kidding aside, powerplant, prop, and airfoil (ok, and weight and drag > and...). In the end, aren't we each building unique aircraft derived from > the same heritage? > > Is a KR with a new airfoil, or an enlarged stab still a KR? Probably not > in the strictest sense, but in spirit absolutely! Almost all of us who are > building, are building custom aircraft with widely varying performance. > > I'm probably the newest newbie here. I sense there's a "go fast" crowd > here and a much smaller "speed limit" crowd. We've all chosen to build > planes based on the same KR heritage, because they're beautiful and > efficient and economical. My opinion, we should all continue to learn from > each other even if our design goals are different. > > So anyway, many thanks to everyone who jumped in to beat my dead LSA > horse. I learned a lot more than I had from reading the archives. Looking > forward to meeting you all in ** 20 DAYS ** !! > > -------------------- > Richard Rankin > EAA 688891 > N328FT (reserved) > richardanddonya (at) cox (dot) net > Tulsa, OK > -------------------- > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 10:22:30 -0700 From: "Joe Beyer" Subject: Re: KR> tappets adjustments To: Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" No, Stainless steel valves are worse. They're soft and although they're one piece, as opposed to welded, they stretch and are more expensive. I threw away a set of them due to compression loss after just a few hours of use. The best exhaust valves to use are the stock TRW brand valves. They are two piece and have hardened stems. Message: 4 Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 10:05:39 +0100 From: "phil brookman" Subject: Re: KR> tappets adjustments To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <002f01c5a3d4$00ce1ff0$73a51352@philljl2re6t9i> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 >thanks for the input on this - sounds like tempreature is the problem >therre are stainless steel valves and manley stainless valves i wonder if >these are any better also some valves are listed suitable for unleaded ------------------------------ Message: 17 Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 07:42:01 +0200 From: "DENE COLLETT (SA)" Subject: Re: KR> Vision LSA alternative To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <00a401c5a4e5$6c336220$b2a6fea9@dene> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Try the Whisper motor glider at 5 litres/hour at 105km/h! (don't think it makes LSA though) Regards Dene Collett KR2S builder freelance whisper assembler South Africa mailto: dene.collett@telkomsa.net ----- Original Message ----- From: Wheeler Express Builder To: KRnet Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 9:53 PM Subject: Re: KR> Vision LSA alternative > now that gas is hitting $3.00 a gallon. Five gph is starting to sound real > good. > > Bob > > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > ------------------------------ Message: 18 Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 13:34:51 -0400 From: Subject: KR> Gathering-Bound!! To: Message-ID: <20050819173451.KDOU9925.eastrmmtao04.cox.net@smtp.east.cox.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Does anybody know anybody who's planning to haul a KR-2S boat to the Gathering for sale? To use a Heathism, the time to begin building is WAY past! --------------------- Richard Rankin EAA 688891 N328FT (reserved) richardanddonya (at) cox (dot) net Tulsa, OK --------------------- ------------------------------ Message: 19 Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 10:41:46 -0700 From: "Joe Beyer" Subject: KR> Re: Auto Fuel/Avgas To: Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" The old 80/87 otane fuel had 1/2 ml. pre gallon of Tetraethel Led (TEL). 100 LL has anywhere between 1/2 to 2 ml. of TEL per gallon. Lead is a good thing but not so much of it. Too bad they don't sell 80/87 anymore. -Joe Message: 1 Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 14:16:04 -0800 From: "Al Friesen" Subject: Re: KR> Re: Auto Fuel/Avgas To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <007f01c5a442$6e120a40$8bf451cf@alk1e9f7i3pcg3> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original >I am told the lead content in 100LL is 4 times the auto gas when lead was a >component of Auto gas. ------------------------------ Message: 20 Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 13:12:05 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> tappets adjustments To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <003201c5a4e9$81a8dd70$5e0ca58c@net.tbe.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Joe Beyer wrote: > No, Stainless steel valves are worse. They're soft and although they're > one > piece, as opposed to welded, they stretch and are more expensive. I threw > away a set of them due to compression loss after just a few hours of use. There are good stainless valves and bad stainless valves. You must have bought some bad ones, because the good ones are an improvment over stock. I bought a set of el cheapos once my self, and the rockers chewed the ends up in no time. Good ones don't do that. As a data point, William Wynne recommends stainless exhaust valves in CorvAircraft engines, and it's not because they are inferior to stock. > Having flown behing behing a VW for 125 hrs. I've found that VW's have an > easier life in an airplane than in a car. They run at pretty much one > speed > all the time and at one tempature and are not used as an inertia brake, > ie. > down shifting. .... I usually cruse at 2500 to 2650 in my KR which > is lower that in my VW bug. Just because your airplane turns fewer rpm than your bug, doesn't mean the airplane's not working a lot harder. The airplane is at almost full throttle, and your bug is rarely full throttle for very long, or you'd be going 90 mph or so. 2600 rpm in a bug is 52 mph, and I'll bet the throttle's not 30% of the way open. VW busses ARE run full throttle much of the time, but they have a lot more problems too. I used to be the engine mechanic at the VW dealership in Las Vegas (was Prestige Motorcars, now Cutter, I think), and in the summer time they were lined up in front of the shop on Monday mornings, victims of the steep hills between California and Vegas. I could argue all day about this, but there's no doubt that aircraft use demands far more from an engine than automotive use. Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net ------------------------------ Message: 21 Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 11:25:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Dan Walker Subject: Re: KR> Re: Auto Fuel/Avgas To: KRnet Message-ID: <20050819182509.96258.qmail@web54304.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 This is straight out of the stc that I have for my cherokee. Just be sure that the auto fuel doen't contain any alcohol since it is corrosive and can damage your fuel system. Lead content of fuel per gallon 100LL 2 grams 80/87 1/2 gram regular mogas 1/10 gram unleaded mogas .001 gram It says When you overhaul you engine use avgas for the first 15 hours to insure adequate lead during the break in period. Radial engines should use leaded fuel at all times. A mixture of 25% 100LL and 75% unleaded auto fuel would yield a lead content equivalent to 80/87 octane avgas. That is from peterson aviation inc. Auto fuel STC's Joe Beyer wrote: The old 80/87 otane fuel had 1/2 ml. pre gallon of Tetraethel Led (TEL). 100 LL has anywhere between 1/2 to 2 ml. of TEL per gallon. Lead is a good thing but not so much of it. Too bad they don't sell 80/87 anymore. -Joe >I am told the lead content in 100LL is 4 times the auto gas when lead was a >component of Auto gas. --------------------------------- Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page ------------------------------ Message: 22 Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 13:50:57 -0500 From: "JIM VANCE" Subject: KR> Avgas/Mogas & Ellison To: "krnet" Message-ID: <003201c5a4ee$f07ca740$0800a8c0@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" The documentation that I received with my Ellison throttle body states that it is intended to use 100 LL only. I assume that this is specified at the behest of their attorney, but could be that the seals and diaphragm wouldn't tolerate the wide rank of stuff in car gas. Has anyone used car gas with the Ellison TBI? Have you had any adverse experiences? Since the compression ratio on my GP VW 1915 cc dictates that I used 90 octane, I would have to use gasohol here in Kansas. Would this be adverse in an Ellison? Jim Vance Vance@ClaflinWildcats.com ------------------------------ Message: 23 Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 14:12:27 -0500 From: "Mark Jones" Subject: RE: KR> Avgas/Mogas & Ellison To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <26D1C67793459F43BF8DA235F92B1F357C43E9@tulsaexchange.tulsaokmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Jim, Prior to flight, I used auto gas in my EFS-2 and even a couple of times during flight. I then upgraded to an EFS-3A and have only run 100LL in it. This is directly off Ellison's web site. "Use with Auto Fuel The Ellison Throttle Body Injector has been designed specifically for aircraft use and has been thoroughly tested with aviation fuels. We do not recommend the use of auto fuel with the TBI. Several of our customers who have used auto fuel have had substantial damage to the rubber and metal parts of the TBI. When operated only on aviation fuel, we have never observed any deterioration of metal or rubber parts in the unit. The EPA has required the oil companies to add oxygenates to auto fuel in in many parts of the country to reduce pollution in the winter months. In most areas this additive is alcohol which will damage aircraft fuel systems. In addition to possible chemical incompatibility, the high vapor pressure of auto fuel can be a problem when used in aircraft, as it is much more likely to boil that aviation fuel. Unlike aviation fuel, the formula of auto fuel is altered as the seasons change, so winter grade fuel is even more likely to form vapor. Many of our customers have stated that they believe there is no chemical difference between aviation fuel and auto fuel. A dramatic difference can be demonstrated by pouring a sample of each into Styrofoam coffee cups. The aviation fuel will remain contained in the cup, but auto fuel will dissolve the cup and flow right through the bottom. " I know of a couple of guys who are running mogas with their Ellison with no ill effects YET. Notice I highlighted YET. It is a risk only you can convince yourself to take. You may never have problems but if you do, the only way to repair the Ellison is to send it in to the factory for repair and you will be stuck with a hefty repair bill. Personally, I am not chancing it with my Ellison. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI Visit my web site: http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj Email: flykr2s@wi.rr.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces+flykr2s=wi.rr.com@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces+flykr2s=wi.rr.com@mylist.net]On Behalf Of JIM VANCE Sent: Friday, August 19, 2005 1:51 PM To: krnet Subject: KR> Avgas/Mogas & Ellison The documentation that I received with my Ellison throttle body states that it is intended to use 100 LL only. I assume that this is specified at the behest of their attorney, but could be that the seals and diaphragm wouldn't tolerate the wide rank of stuff in car gas. Has anyone used car gas with the Ellison TBI? Have you had any adverse experiences? Since the compression ratio on my GP VW 1915 cc dictates that I used 90 octane, I would have to use gasohol here in Kansas. Would this be adverse in an Ellison? Jim Vance Vance@ClaflinWildcats.com _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 24 Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 15:45:22 -0500 From: Subject: Re: RE: KR> Avgas/Mogas & Ellison To: KRnet Message-ID: <20050819204522.FWYM5596.ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net@[166.102.165.30]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Here is the problem. Steve says to use only Auto Fuel, Ellison says to use only Aviation Fuel. I have a GPASC VW with an Ellison carb. Now ain't that a catch22? ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 314 *************************************** ================================== ABC Amber Outlook Converter v4.20 Trial version ==================================