From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net To: John Bouyea Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 36 Date: 1/24/2005 8:58:58 PM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Yahoo! Photos - My KR2 S Project (Glasseyegav) 2. Re: bad crank (Doug Rupert) 3. Re: bad crank (Doug Rupert) 4. Re: bad crank (Doug Rupert) 5. Re: Been Real Busy (F Ross) 6. Re: Been Real Busy (Dan Heath) 7. Re: Yahoo! Photos - My KR2 S Project (Dan Heath) 8. Re: Yahoo! Photos - My KR2 S Project (Glasseyegav) 9. RE: Installing the control cables to Carb Heat, Mixture, and Throttle on Elliston EFS-2 (Jack Cooper) 10. Re: AS 504X CofG (Dene Collett (SA)) 11. Re: Widening KR-2s Fuselage (Ron Smith) 12. Re: Widening KR-2s Fuselage (Mark Langford) 13. KR2 Retract (Jim Brewer) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 16:42:06 +1000 From: "Glasseyegav" Subject: KR> Yahoo! Photos - My KR2 S Project To: "KR builders and pilots" Message-ID: <000901c501df$d278e400$0100000a@vic.bigpond.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" It's been raining here so I thought I'd do a little on my panel!! It's just buffed aluminium at the moment but it will be black when finished. Missing is the egt/cht gauge and a fuel pressure gauge. you'll see in the pics that I haven't fitted the throttle,mixture and heat controls yet or any electrical. Gav hhtp://au.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/glasseyegav/album?.dir=a154&.src=ph&store=&prodid=&.done=http%3a//au.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/glasseyegav/my_photos ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 01:55:36 -0500 From: Doug Rupert Subject: Re: KR> bad crank To: KRnet Message-ID: <41F49BE8.1030608@sympatico.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Don't know about the welding bit but they can metal spray the crank and regrind the journals. Have used this method on old farm tractor parts that are no longer available. Aircraft usage may be another matter altogether. Doug Rupert. > > > ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 02:00:30 -0500 From: Doug Rupert Subject: Re: KR> bad crank To: KRnet Message-ID: <41F49D0E.2060608@sympatico.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed I've welded several high stress items in the past, reground them and thrown them back in the furnace to re-do the heat treat process and never had a problem but then again these were not crankshafts. Doug Rupert. > > ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 02:00:30 -0500 From: Doug Rupert Subject: Re: KR> bad crank To: KRnet Message-ID: <41F49D0E.2060608@sympatico.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed I've welded several high stress items in the past, reground them and thrown them back in the furnace to re-do the heat treat process and never had a problem but then again these were not crankshafts. Doug Rupert. > > ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 02:08:28 -0800 (PST) From: F Ross Subject: Re: KR> Been Real Busy To: KRnet Message-ID: <20050124100828.6738.qmail@web40907.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Dan and Jerry, Sure is pretty. Now, where have I seen that design before...? Frank ===== Frank Ross, EAA Chapter 35, San Geronimo, TX RAF Lakenheath, Suffolk, England, UK Visit my photo album at: http://photos.yahoo.com/alamokr2 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! - What will yours do? http://my.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 06:46:55 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" Subject: Re: KR> Been Real Busy To: "krnet@mylist.net" Message-ID: <41F4E02F.000024.01680@DANHOMECOMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" It wouldn't have been at the Gathering last year, in the plane that won best KR, would it? When you go to gatherings, you not only get great ideas, but sometimes you also get really neat stuff, and you always make new friends. It was eye opening when I saw Steve Glovers interior. It was exactly the same color as Jerry and I were using on ours. By that time, I only had the material and the rear bulkhead and the side skirts finished and installed. So, with pictures of Steve's interior and the sewing machine file he sent me and his permission to use it, I went to a co-worker who does the computerized embroidery for a hobby and we re-arranged the colors to match this plane. I gave the pics of the interior to my friend who does upholstery work and he amended his plans. It added a lot of work from what I was going to get, but I sure do love it. I think Jerry likes it a little too. Many thanks to Steve Glover for this and for all the sharing. So the moral of this story is, go to the gatherings, make new friends, get great ideas and maybe some neat stuff too. PS: Remember, the year before, we took away John Shafer's canopy design? See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for building has expired. Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC See you in Mt. Vernon - 2005 - KR Gathering -------Original Message------- Now, where have I seen that design before...? Frank ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 06:51:38 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" Subject: Re: KR> Yahoo! Photos - My KR2 S Project To: "krnet@mylist.net" Message-ID: <41F4E14A.000026.01680@DANHOMECOMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Gav's link should be: http://au.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/glasseyegav/album?.dir=a154& src=ph&store=&prodid=&.done=http%3a//au.pg.photos.yahoo com/ph/glasseyegav/my_photos I kinka like tha brushed aluminum look. Looks like it is going to be a really neat panel. Is that a radio in the center? See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for building has expired. Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC See you in Mt. Vernon - 2005 - KR Gathering ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 22:49:42 +1000 From: "Glasseyegav" Subject: Re: KR> Yahoo! Photos - My KR2 S Project To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <000801c50213$2c9abde0$0100000a@vic.bigpond.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > Gav's link should be: > > http://au.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/glasseyegav/album?.dir=a154& > src=ph&store=&prodid=&.done=http%3a//au.pg.photos.yahoo > I kinka like tha brushed aluminum look. Looks like it is going to be > a really neat panel. Is that a radio in the center? Yup sure is it's a King KY97A, transponder will be below it. Gav ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 11:16:14 -0500 From: "Jack Cooper" Subject: RE: KR> Installing the control cables to Carb Heat, Mixture, and Throttle on Elliston EFS-2 To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <410-220051124161614343@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Nice work Dan. looks like "a time for FLYING" is getting near. Jack Cooper > [Original Message] > From: Dan Heath > To: krnet@mylist.net > Date: 1/23/2005 8:46:51 PM > Subject: KR> Installing the control cables to Carb Heat, Mixture,and Throttle on Elliston EFS-2 > > http://kr-builder.org/FirewallForward/index.html > > The first 5 thumbnails show the installation of the control cables. > > See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics > There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for building > has expired. > Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC > See you in Mt. Vernon - 2005 - KR Gathering > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 21:37:12 +0200 From: "Dene Collett \(SA\)" Subject: Re: KR> AS 504X CofG To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <000301c5024c$63596460$37e5fea9@telkomsa127179> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Mat That was a great explanation for a layman like myself, thanks very much for taking the trouble. As a matter of interest I have found out that our C.A.A has set the rear limit for the RAF48 at 28% chord. regards Dene Collett KR2S-RT builder Port Elizabeth South Africa mailto: dene.collett@telkomsa.net P.S: checkout www.whisperaircraft.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matthew Elder" To: "KRnet" Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 12:46 AM Subject: Re: KR> AS 504X CofG > Actually it's the other way around. > > The designer of the airfoil comes up with (emperically usually) a > point known as the center of lift. The aircraft designer uses that > information based on the mission of the aircraft. > > Assume that we are talking about conventional aircraft here (big wing > in front, little wing in back) > > For most GA aircraft, the idea is to keep the CG of the aicraft ahead > of the center of lift (nose heavy). This creates a pitching moment > that pushes the nose of the aircraft towards the ground. The designer > then sizes the tail accordingly to have enough force to overcome that > pitching moment. IF he gets it right, the aircraft will be stable. > > If the center of lift and the center of gravity are coincident, the > tail plane has to apply zero force to keep the aircraft level... > however, this is akin to balancing a ball bearing on an up-side-down > bowl or other convex surface.... > > The nose heavy condition will make the aircraft, in general, more > stable, slower in cruise (due to more induced drag because the wing is > carring more effective weight) and make landing distances longer. > Stall speed will also usually increase, but with more of a tendancy to > mush (again, in general). Controls will feel heavier as well. Yes, > there is such as thing as too nose heavy. This is where the tail > plane simply cannot apply the needed down force required to overcome > the pitching moment created by the wing. Very bad when you are 3 feet > off the runway and slow... > > The more towards the tail heavy end you go, up to the coincindence > point, the more touchy (sometimes that can be fun) the aircraft > becomes, and the faster it will fly (less induced drag). Stall speed > will likely decrease, but it may make recovery longer. Control feel > gets lighter as well. If you go too far aft, well lets just say > that's not a good idea. Anyone that has flown a tail heavy aircraft, > real, model or otherwise, knows what I'm talking about. > > I know that I have grossly generalized some information, but there are > many good books on this subject alone if you want/need to get into the > nitty-gritty. > > Hope this helps, > Matt > > > > > > --- "Dene Collett (SA)" wrote: > > > Hi guys > > Thanks to everyone that tried to stear me in the right direction > > regarding CG location. I have really very limited knowledge of > > aerodynamics and have a > > few questions of how the CG is determined. The way I see it is > > this : After > > the "designer" has finished designing his aerofoil, he does > > some more > > calculations or some testing (wind tunnel?) to determine the > > CG range that > > the aerofoil is happy at regardless of what plane it will > > ultimately be used > > on. Then again I suppose that would depend on the amoumt of > > load the wing is > > expected to carry and the speed it is expected to carry it at. > > So if I stick to an ultimate aft limit of 30% MAC I should be > > OK??? By the > > way, what are the published figures that everyone talks about. > > I only have > > the remains of a very old manual and I guess that bit of info > > is missing. if > > it wasn't for two friends who had built three KRs between > > them, I might > > never have got this far. > > Mark, the tube is for the mains and yes it is a retract I'm > > afraid (all > > three wheels). I am basing the system on a design by Stelio > > Frati called the > > "Pinguino". I figured it took me nine years to get this far, I > > might as well > > try to produce something really unusual as well as not make it > > any heavier > > than the fixed gear. > > Thanks again guys. > > Cheers > > Dene Collett > > KR2S-RT builder > > Port Elizabeth > > South Africa > > mailto: dene.collett@telkomsa.net > > P.S: checkout www.whisperaircraft.com > > > > > > > > _______________________________________ > > Search the KRnet Archives at > > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > > ===== > ------------------------------------------------- > Matthew Elder > Orangeburg, SC > http://www.infinigral.com/melder > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 16:00:21 -0800 (PST) From: Ron Smith Subject: Re: KR> Widening KR-2s Fuselage To: KRnet Message-ID: <20050125000021.3196.qmail@web81706.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sean Caranna wrote: I'm at a bit of a cross roads with building my plane. I am planning on building an aircraft to be powered by a Corvair engine. I originally wanted to build a VP-2, but it's just not going to be wide enough for me at 6'2" 250lb any my fiancé at 6' tall "if I post weight I could be killed". I have begun a design of my own, but this will take much longer to build for a number of reasons outside the topic of this email list. I still plan to eventually build my own design but I'm just not sure that it should be my first build. The more I read about the KR-2S the more it grows on me. However, I have also read that, like the VP-2, it makes a better fat single seater than a cruiser for 2 adults. I know that some of you here have widened the KR-2s and I wanted to know what would be involved in widening it to 44". Particularly I was concerned with how this modification would affect the loading on the wing spars and what changes would be needed to the stub wings. Should I choose to build a KR I will use the AS5048/15 airfoil. Thanks, Sean C. Caranna http://www.wingsforum.com Hi Sean, The Kr2s is a great plane to build. I am having the time of my life building mine. If you want information on widening the fuselage, I suggest going to Mark Lankfords site and reading what he wrote in his "opinions" section of his web site. Also search the archives here. I widened mine by six inches and raised the height by 2 inches. That gives me an inside width of almost 42 inches, at the shoulders. I don't think that widening the fuselage is that difficult and it doesn't really cause to many problems. You really do have to examine the plans, and think ahead. I am not an engineer. If you build the as504x spar according to Marks outline, he says that it is stronger than the orginal design. ( I have no reason to doubt him) Another thing I did was to make the fuselage square ( I eliminated the taper). That made construction much easier. Of course ANY modifications you make impact the rest of your building process, and they might be untested and dangerous. You have to be convinced that what your doing is safe in your own mind. There are many here that can give great advice, and the archives are just full of great information and should be utilized often. My reasoning is that there are many flying KRs that have been widened with no overtly adverse effects. So I feel confident that mine will be safe. There may be greater drag with the wider fuselage, and my plane may be a little slower because of that, but being more comfortable while flying outweighed that consideration. I would encourage you to start.........today! Ron Smith KR2S fuselage 95 percent done, working on the spars, dreaming, and grinning. _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 18:18:45 -0600 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> Widening KR-2s Fuselage To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <001201c50273$6f21ae20$2802a8c0@2600xp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Ron Smith wrote: >>If you build the as504x spar according to Marks outline, he says that >>it is stronger than the orginal design. << That applies to the AS5048, but not the others. That's only because the spar caps are further apart. You basically have a beam that's taller, therefore stronger, due to the increased thickness of the 18% AS5048. Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama see homebuilt airplane at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 21:13:07 -0500 From: "Jim Brewer" Subject: KR> KR2 Retract To: Message-ID: <001b01c50283$6a080910$73e95a42@JimChrisBrewer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I recently purchased a partially completed KR2 that is a Tri-Gear retractable. I need to find as much info as possible. ie: Advantages vs disadvantages etc. Especially comments from you who have been there. Thanks, Jim ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 36 ************************************** ================================== ABC Amber Outlook Converter v4.20 Trial version ==================================