From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net To: John Bouyea Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 361 Date: 9/13/2005 10:40:21 AM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. R?f. : Re: KR> Zinc chromate (Serge VIDAL) 2. RE: Changing gear -- from retractable to tri-gear (Mike Geogheganandothers?) (James Babcock) 3. Re: Gathering Date (David Lininger) 4. Re: Like Nascar and Football/Baseball (Robert L. Stone) 5. Italian KR2S (Oscar Zuniga) 6. RE: Dual Ignition Systems, it Saved My Bacon - CORRECTION (Mark Jones) 7. Gathering finances (larry flesner) 8. Gathering Date OR PLACE???? (larry flesner) 9. RE: Two Gatherings (Jack Cooper) 10. Gathering Date/place follow-up (larry flesner) 11. R?f. : KR> RE: Dual Ignition Systems, it Saved My Bacon - CORRECTION (Serge VIDAL) 12. RE: Gathering Date/place follow-up (Ronald R.Eason) 13. Re: Gathering Date/place follow-up (rvz) 14. RE: R?f. : KR> RE: Dual Ignition Systems, it Saved My Bacon - CORRECTION (Mark Jones) 15. RE: Gathering Date (Ronald R.Eason) 16. RE: Gathering Date/place follow-up (Mark Jones) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 13:20:27 +0200 From: Serge VIDAL Subject: R?f. : Re: KR> Zinc chromate To: KRnet Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I have heard of that. Anyway, I made my decision: - I will treat the aluminum parts with alodine and nothing more, - I will use a black self etching primer on my steel parts (WAFs mainly). I have no idea what that primer is, but I bought the can once upon a time in South Africa, and I know it works bloody well. Alodine seems to me the cheapest, easiest and safest way to make an undercoat on aluminum parts. By the way, I bought the alodine, and I realized it was the wrong one. There are two types: 1201 alodine is transparent, 1202 alodine leaves a gold finish. Serge Vidal KR2 "Kilimanjaro Cloud" Paris, France "Orma" Envoyé par : krnet-bounces@mylist.net 2005-09-12 23:01 Veuillez répondre à KRnet Remis le : 2005-09-13 01:48 Pour : "KRnet" cc : (ccc : Serge VIDAL/DNSA/SAGEM) Objet : Re: KR> Zinc chromate The real Zinc is the greatest known Carcinogen known to aviation. Just a thought. Orma _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 06:28:44 -0500 From: "James Babcock" Subject: RE: KR> Changing gear -- from retractable to tri-gear (Mike Geogheganandothers?) To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Rich, I have about 250 hr on my Diehl system, and have had no squawks at all. I removed the stock KR retracts before the first flight and installed the Diehl system, so I have no experience with the original retracts to compare to the fixed system. >From: "Rich Meyer" >Reply-To: KRnet >To: "'KRnet'" >Subject: KR> Changing gear -- from retractable to tri-gear (Mike >Geogheganandothers?) >Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 22:55:34 -0500 > >Mike, > A year and a half ago you posted about converting your project from a >"non-modified" (really? Is there such a thing?) "KR2 on retractable >gear" to tri-gear. > > After a year on Krnet (I lost my heart to KR) and a year on Sonextalk >(my brother-in-law and prospective partner in building did not want to >get into fiberglass work), my brother-in-law and I became the >silly-happy new owners of N26LT this week. I thought we were going to >get a Sonex kit when we could afford it, but we found this KR for sale >with 300 hours on it, a HAPI VW 1835, and when he convinced himself he >could fit in it with seat dropped to the max, we bought it. Our plane >is a "non-modified" (really?) KR2 on retractable gear. We want to >remove the retractable gear and make it a tri-gear. We would like to >talk to anyone who has been through this conversion about the process. > > You said you had a single piece Grove gear made up. I thought there >was a bracket available to mount spring gear on the main spar in the >wing stubs? What have others used for the main who mounted tri-gear? > > Oh, and it's great to be back on Krnet! Next year we hope to make it >to the gathering. Thanks, > >Rich H. Meyer >Cptcsd at npcc dot net >Phone 574-642-3963 >Cell 574-202-3920 > >------------------------------------------ >-----Original Message----- >From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net] On >Behalf Of Michael Geoghegan >Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2004 2:43 PM >To: Krnet >Subject: KR>First flight for low time pilot (long) > >Netters > >My name is Mike Geoghegan. I have been a member of KRNET for about 4 >years. >I have posted to the net on a few occasions but for the most part I have >listened and gathered a great deal of information which I have used in the >completion of my kr2. > > > >N47MG is a close to plans built kr2. About 4 years ago I rescued a >boat stage project that had been sitting in a barn for 10 years. It >was going to the dumps or my garage and since I was looking for a >project to take up some >of my spare time I put it in my garage. I had started down the road toward >a private license in 1980 and got about 20 hours and solo when, due to >children, work, and everything else I had to stop. Well now with the last >child off to college I was ready to finally get that license. The kr >project would keep me busy and when finished, I would have a plane to fly. > > For those of you who are not low time pilots I can make this post >short >and >tell you that I am flying N47MG and I will be providing photos for everyone >to see as soon as the weather in Vermont gets a little warmer. I hope that >will be soon. > >The following is a recap of my experience getting my plane in the air >with very little flight time in my log book. The project was a non >modified tail wheel kr2 on retracts. I won't go into detail on the >completion of the project except to say that I stuck to the plans and >ended up with a dry weight of 598 lbs. There were a few things I did >in the completion process >that I would recommend to others. > >1. Be sure to balance ailerons and elevator. The elevator balance >is important because without it your elevator trim won't overcome the >weight >of the elevator. > >2. Don't short change the importance of both aileron and elevator >trim. I installed what was then Mac servos in the elevator and the >very smallest one in the left aileron so I could see it off to my left. >It is a 12 inch piano hinge with a piece of 12 x 2 inch sheet metal >attached to the trailing edge of the aileron. The servos are >controlled by the four buttons >on the top of the stick. (also a Mac product) With the use of both trims I >can fly this plane hands free for short periods of time. > >3. The engine that came with the project was a 1700cc vw. It was >mounted as a hand prop setup and it had a posa carb installed. I >rebuilt the engine and when I got to the point of testing it I ran into >a lot of trouble with the posa carb. Suffice to say that after many >hours of testing I lost my patience. I bit the bullet and bought an >Ellison. I also purchased an accessory case with starter and >alternator. The Ellison is fantastic and the starter is much safer. > > Now to the hard part. I finished my project in September of 2002. >Got >the >airworthiness certificate and it was ready for testing. I did some low >speed taxi testing to maybe 25 mph but I didn't have my pilot certificate >yet so I was not going to be able to fly it anyway. I found a test pilot >with lots of tail wheel time that was willing to take a test flight. In >October of 2002 he showed up for an inspection and a half hour later he got >in and took off. The test went very well. Climbs, steep turns, stalls, and >a picture perfect wheel landing. He made it all look very easy. The only >thing I had to do was increase the surface area of the aileron trim so it >could hold the plane level hands free. > >After the test flight I had to take my check ride and get my >certificate. Once I did that I now had a tail wheel kr2 ready to fly. I >know that there have been some conversations on the net about not >needing a tail wheel endorsement to fly an experimental but you have to >be a fool to think that you don't need any tail wheel experience to >successfully fly one. Since the test pilot I used was not a CFI and I >couldn't find anyone to give me the tail wheel experience I proceeded >to do a lot of taxi testing myself. >After >about 6 hours of time trying to keep the tail up and the plane straight and >almost loosing it on a number of occasions I did the smart thing and >converted the plane to a tri gear. I purchased a Diehl nose gear assembly >and I had a single piece Grove gear made up. I put Tracy O'Brian brakes on >the gear and fabricated toe brake pedals to operate the hydraulics. The >main gear installation was really pretty easy once the brackets were made >up. > >After two or three taxi test sessions it was obvious that for me the >change to tri gear was the right way to go. The plane felt very >comfortable. It had familiar handling traits on the ground and I had >no trouble keeping it straight under throttle. On the fourth taxi test >everything felt so good at 50 that instead of slowing I followed >through with a little more speed and back pressure. The plane >absolutely leapt into the air. I corrected with a >little forward pressure and within two oscillations I was climbing 700 fpm >at 80mph. Talking about a thrill! I played with the trim as I was climbing >and got settled so I wasn't holding the attitude with the stick. At this >point I would like to voice my observations about pitch sensitivity. I >only >have about 100 hours logged mostly in a 152 but first hand experience can >be >very valuable. In my opinion the kr2 is not pitch sensitive. What I have >found is that the kr2 is very stick sensitive. That is to say that I only >use a fraction of stick to control the plane. I have found that if I trim >properly I can fly with two finger tips on the stick. If the plane is not >trimmed properly then I find myself using too much control input and end up >over correcting. The plane responds so well that you can almost think >about >banking and it will. Now to bring you back to where I left you last. I >was >climbing out on the first flight. What a joy to feel the response of this >plane. I spent some time at altitude trying different speeds and flight >attitudes including some slow flight. Again, the trim control helped >greatly. I did not feel comfortable trying any stalls but I did have a >good >idea of the stall speed from the first test flight. The big problem now >was >how do I land this very sensitive plane when I was used to the yoke of a >152. The answer is not very smooth and not very pretty. It was inevitable >that I would end up over correcting on final. I was able to enter final at >80 mph but I was all over the place. The problem was that I kept telling >myself "fly the plane" when I should have let it fly itself. All of my >input was too much. Well, I made the runway and I made it to a full stop >and I didn't have a heart attack but it was close. As I was rolling out >one >of the locals who was holding short, watching my landing, got on the radio >and asked if it was my first flight. After my affirmative reply all he >said >was "It looks beautiful". I got out and kissed the ground. > >Every flight since then has been much better and I got a chance to >grease one right in front of my CFI. Always a good thing to do. Here >is some data: > >Dry weight is 598 lb >Engine is VW 1700cc >Carb is Ellison EFS-2 >Prop is a Sterba 52 x 42 >Header tank only - 16 gal >Fuel consumption is 3 to 3.5 gal per hr >Climb is 700 fpm at 80 mph >Max speed is 130 mph @ 3600 rpm >Cruse is 115 mph @ 3200 rpm >Landing approach @ 80 mph >Numbers @ 70 mph >Touch @ 60 or below >No flaps or speed brake and not much float. > >Since it has been a very cold winter here in Vermont I have spent some >time putting on wheel pants and doing misc. work as I wait for some >good flying days. I hope to fly off the test hours this spring and by >then I will really know more about the performance. I also hope to >build a larger displacement VW and get some more speed out of her. >Turbulence really moves this plane around a lot because it is so light. >I'm not sure how long a period of time I could spend going fast and >getting thrown around so much but on a smooth day I can see this plane >going fast! > >I hope this has been helpful to those low time pilots trying to make >some decisions on their projects and maybe it will help the high time >pilots prepare for their first flights. > > Regards, > >Mike Geoghegan > >Moretown Vermont > >N47MG > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________ >Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net >please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 06:33:00 -0500 From: David Lininger Subject: Re: KR> Gathering Date To: KRnet Message-ID: <4326B8EC.40604@positech.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Robert L. Stone wrote:In > the event you are intercepted by one of the patrolling F-16's just go > to > 121.5 and follow the F-16's pilot instructions. Presumably those F-16 drivers know enough to stay far enough away from the KR so that their tip vortices don't flip the little bird. I suspect that they are more used to intercepting something bigger than they are, rather than something that can fit on one of their wings. -- 73, David, kb0zke Rev. 2:10c ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 07:41:32 -0500 From: "Robert L. Stone" Subject: Re: KR> Like Nascar and Football/Baseball To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <001301c5b860$78bf6eb0$5d817646@yourat5qgaac3z> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Colin, I don't think the suggestion of having two get togethers would or should upset anyone. Anyway this is the same thing I suggested only you were more detailed and said it better than I did. Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx rstone4@hot.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Colin & Bev Rainey" To: Sent: Monday, September 12, 2005 11:04 PM Subject: KR> Like Nascar and Football/Baseball > Not to upset anyone, but I have been thinking for a while that we > should > have 2 events a year. Nascar has 2 major races at the same tracks each > year, football and baseball play the same teams at least twice, and clubs > like the Bonanza Club and Mooney Club meet once a week to once a month for > breakfast/brunch in local areas. Even the bike runs I attend happen twice > a year, Biketoberfest in the Fall, and Bike Week in the Spring. > > It seems to me that if it were organized well with 2 different hosts, > maybe 2 slightly different locations, one event sometime in the Spring, > and one in the Fall, more people could attend one or the other, or both. > The biggest thing I can see is that it would raise the enthusiasm of the > builders, because they could meet with their friends more often, touch and > feel KRs more often, and just raise overall camaraderie of the KR > community. Sun n Fun is fine, but KRs are dwarfed at Sun n Fun, and too > much of that event is commercialized (no offense Virgil). I have been to > Sun n Fun 4 times and feel that there is NOT enough contact with actual > builders, whether it be kit built or plans built. The Gathering does > that. If agreeable we could call them The Gathering in the Fall, and The > Get Together in the Spring. The world of bikes and Nascar, and sports > have seen no detriment to twice a year, I don't believe we would either. > The Southern Rebels have been talking for 2 years now about h > > Ok, said my piece and then some... > Back to finishing the assembly of my Corvair... > Hey Langford, when you get a chance, let me know about your test prop > you > ran your engine on please, off net, thanks. > > Colin Rainey > KSFB > N96TA > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 08:00:12 -0500 From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR> Italian KR2S To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Cris wrote- >I found the time to upload some pics of Alberto Zorzi's KR2S on my web >space. >If you want, you can see at: http://www.aviocris.com/kr2s If you haven't taken a look at the pictures of Alberto's airplane, by all means take the time to do so! This one would take home some awards at any major fly-in, and is a beautiful example of the marque. The paint scheme is very similar to Roy Marsh's (the Rand-Robinson "poster child" for the KR2S) and the cockpit is very nicely detailed. Note to Mark Langford- if Alberto's plane isn't linked to the 'completed KRs' page, it should be, as it is an inspiration on how to detail out a KR. PS- I will be meeting Cris in person in a few weeks, and will be hand-delivering his set of KR and -2S plans and supplements to him. That's one of the reasons why he hasn't started his project yet... no plans yet! Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 10:00:50 -0500 From: "Mark Jones" Subject: KR> RE: Dual Ignition Systems, it Saved My Bacon - CORRECTION To: "Corvair engines for homebuilt aircraft" , "KR Net \(E-mail\)" Message-ID: <26D1C67793459F43BF8DA235F92B1F357C449C@tulsaexchange.tulsaokmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" John, You are absolutely correct. What am I thinking and I am surprised my hand was not called on this sooner. The wire that actually broke was the coil primary circuit wire to the points. It broke where it connects to the post on the coil and not the condenser wire. My mistake in describing the problem. Regardless, dual ignition ran independently of each other is the way to go. If you were to run them both together and one failed, you would never know it and then later on if the other one failed you would be without a back up. When ran independently, they can each be tested prior to flight and you will know both are working. Sorry for the mix up in my analysis report and thanks for opening my eyes. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI Visit my web site: http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj Email: flykr2s@wi.rr.com -----Original Message----- From: corvaircraft-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:corvaircraft-bounces@mylist.net]On Behalf Of John Brannen Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 9:13 AM To: Corvair engines for homebuilt aircraft Subject: Re: CorvAircraft> Dual Ignition Systems, it Saved My Bacon Mark, Congrats on getting her down safely. One question though. If it was the condenser wire, how do you have it connected? Every condenser install I have seen would only result in the points burning faster if you lost the condenser. I would have guessed you would get errant firing before complete ignition loss. John B. Mark Jones wrote: I pulled my cowl look for the problem and found that the condenser wire had broken at the coil. A pair of wire strippers and a wrench and two minutes later the problem was fixed. _________________________________________________________ search the CorvAircraft archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/corvairsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from CorvAircraft, send a message to CorvAircraft-leave@mylist.net Other CorvAircraft list info is at http://www.krnet.org/corvaircraft_inst.html ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 11:20:01 -0500 From: larry flesner Subject: KR> Gathering finances To: KRnet Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20050913112001.00831a00@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I've managed to sort through the finances for the 2005 Gathering this morning and the indications are as follows: We should end with a balance in the Gathering fund of approx $3375. We started this years Gathering with a balance of approx $3000. This will be adjusted by a couple hundred dollars yet as I pay the last small bill on shirts and then receive payment on additional shirt sales. I hope this "ballpark" figure is correct as I ran out of coffee before finishing the count. :-) The final results , in detail, will be available on the web page in the next week or so. Feel free to e-mail me any questions you have at that time. Thanks again to everyone that helped out. Larry Flesner 2005 Gathering Host ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 11:21:08 -0500 From: larry flesner Subject: KR> Gathering Date OR PLACE???? To: KRnet Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20050913112108.00832440@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Now, you may never get it >moved, because apparently, there no longer is a restriction on how many >times we have it at the same place, consecutively. Daniel R. Heath ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ To my knowledge there has never been a "restriction" on how many years the Gathering took place in any one location. It has always been dependent on who wants to host it and and where the attendees vote to go next. The "two year" number came about more from host "burnout" than anything else. There have been times in the past that the Gathering has changed locations on an annual basis. In my case, two years was enough for me also. The airport manager at Mt.Vernon and supporting organizations invited us to return and have agreed to lend their support. I agreed to help them out if the attendees voted to return. I expect to hand over most of the detail work to them and only continue in an advisory role and maintain the final approval on any of the planning and, of course, maintain control of our funds. I suppose I felt some small obligation to continue to host the Gathering at Mt.Vernon, if the attendees voted to return, as a repayment for the 14 prior years I attended as a visitor and took advantage of the work of others. There will be a few small changes to the Gathering next year at Mt.Vernon such as less room in the terminal commons area and the awards banquet off site as at other locations. On the plus side, Chris Collins, the airport manager and former KR project owner and Gathering attendee, hopes to improve the facilities for those wanting to camp. In the end, the Gathering is for the attendees. In order to be successful, it will have to take place at a location and time that encourages the greatest attendance of KRs and visitors. Who better to know than those attending. I hope everyone left "pumped up" and got the sawdust flying on their projects as soon as they got home and I look forward to seeing everyone again next year. The many comments I heard from this years attendees make me think we had another successful Gathering. How many more days, Mark Jones? Thanks again to everyone that made it possible. Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 12:59:09 -0400 From: "Jack Cooper" Subject: RE: KR> Two Gatherings To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <410-22005921316599578@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII I agree with Dan. One KR gathering a year is enough.There are plenty regional fly-ins that KR pilots and builders can get together without much expense and commitment. Jack Cooper > [Original Message] > From: Dan Heath > To: > Date: 9/13/2005 5:49:52 AM > Subject: KR> Two Gatherings > > I have to save all my pennies and vacation time, just to make one gathering. > At least, with one, I know that all the people and planes that can > make it to a gathering, will be at that one event. If there were two, > I would miss all the people and planes who went to the other one. > Putting on a Gathering > is no small task and going to one also takes a lot of commitment. If people > want to get together more often, just let everyone know where and > when, and > those who can make it, will. > > A decision has to be made here, and whatever it is, is not going to > make everyone happy. But what Steve Glover just went through without > killing himself or damaging his airplane, no one should have to go > through. A lesser > pilot would not have survived it. We have already lost too many planes > to bad weather at gathering time. I was close to not surviving the > trip back from Covington, the year the Long EZ was lost, returning > from their gathering at Rough River. We need to do something to better > the odds of having good weather. You cannot predict the weather, but > there are certain things that you do know about it. If you want KRs to > show up, all you need is good weather. > > This is not Oshkosh nor is it Sun N Fun or any of the other BIG > commercialized events and I certainly hope that it does not become > such an event. This is a family that tries to get together once a > year, let's keep it that way. > > See you in Mt. Vernon - 2005 - KR Gathering > > See N64KR at http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on the pics > > There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for building > has expired. > > Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 12:00:35 -0500 From: larry flesner Subject: KR> Gathering Date/place follow-up To: KRnet Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20050913120035.008a2db0@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" As a follow-up to my earlier post, I'd like to add the following to let everyone know I don't really have a personal bias as to where the Gathering takes place. Financially for me it really doesn't matter where the Gathering takes place. My cost are for a motel room at Mt.Vernon so I can stay on location and not make the 100 mile round trip home each day. I have several trips to Mt.Vernon for set-up and teardown as well as meeting with those involved for planning. I purchase my shirt and hat and pay for my banquet tickets. Additionally, I have to make arrangements to get both my KR and truck to Mt.Vernon. Even though it is a short flight from my home airport, I have to get someone to run me back and forth. Then there are the expenses of my time for all the shirt and hat orders, time purchasing supplies, computer time on setting up forms, banquet tickets, phone calls, etc. Last year I was reimbursed $100 to cover some of my unlisted expenses but they were probably much less this year and I'm not expecting any pay on them. This is not to say that I suspect anyone is questioning my motives. I'm just wanting to see the Gathering continue to grow each year and be a learning and fun experience for everyone. Enough said I think on my part. Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 19:10:59 +0200 From: Serge VIDAL Subject: R?f. : KR> RE: Dual Ignition Systems, it Saved My Bacon - CORRECTION To: KRnet Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I remember having been flamed out once when I expressed my lack of confidence in the magnetos, and stated that my system consisted of two totally independent solid state ignition systems. The question was: "if your system is so much better than the good o'l magnetos, then why ya making it redundant?" Originally, I decided for redundancy because I wanted to make the certification people happy, but thinking of it, redundancy is also an answer to real life problems in aviation: bad luck, and failure to notice trouble in the making. Serge Vidal KR2 "Kilimanjaro Cloud" Paris, France "Mark Jones" Envoyé par : krnet-bounces@mylist.net 2005-09-13 17:00 Veuillez répondre à KRnet Remis le : 2005-09-13 16:56 Pour : "Corvair engines for homebuilt aircraft" , "KR Net (E-mail)" cc : (ccc : Serge VIDAL/DNSA/SAGEM) Objet : KR> RE: Dual Ignition Systems, it Saved My Bacon - CORRECTION John, You are absolutely correct. What am I thinking and I am surprised my hand was not called on this sooner. The wire that actually broke was the coil primary circuit wire to the points. It broke where it connects to the post on the coil and not the condenser wire. My mistake in describing the problem. Regardless, dual ignition ran independently of each other is the way to go. If you were to run them both together and one failed, you would never know it and then later on if the other one failed you would be without a back up. When ran independently, they can each be tested prior to flight and you will know both are working. Sorry for the mix up in my analysis report and thanks for opening my eyes. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI Visit my web site: http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj Email: flykr2s@wi.rr.com -----Original Message----- From: corvaircraft-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:corvaircraft-bounces@mylist.net]On Behalf Of John Brannen Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 9:13 AM To: Corvair engines for homebuilt aircraft Subject: Re: CorvAircraft> Dual Ignition Systems, it Saved My Bacon Mark, Congrats on getting her down safely. One question though. If it was the condenser wire, how do you have it connected? Every condenser install I have seen would only result in the points burning faster if you lost the condenser. I would have guessed you would get errant firing before complete ignition loss. John B. Mark Jones wrote: I pulled my cowl look for the problem and found that the condenser wire had broken at the coil. A pair of wire strippers and a wrench and two minutes later the problem was fixed. _________________________________________________________ search the CorvAircraft archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/corvairsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from CorvAircraft, send a message to CorvAircraft-leave@mylist.net Other CorvAircraft list info is at http://www.krnet.org/corvaircraft_inst.html _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 12:20:41 -0500 From: "Ronald R.Eason" Subject: RE: KR> Gathering Date/place follow-up To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <200509131020544.SM01016@CADENGINEERING> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" A-OK Larry. KRron -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net] On Behalf Of larry flesner Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 12:01 PM To: KRnet Subject: KR> Gathering Date/place follow-up As a follow-up to my earlier post, I'd like to add the following to let everyone know I don't really have a personal bias as to where the Gathering takes place. Financially for me it really doesn't matter where the Gathering takes place. My cost are for a motel room at Mt.Vernon so I can stay on location and not make the 100 mile round trip home each day. I have several trips to Mt.Vernon for set-up and teardown as well as meeting with those involved for planning. I purchase my shirt and hat and pay for my banquet tickets. Additionally, I have to make arrangements to get both my KR and truck to Mt.Vernon. Even though it is a short flight from my home airport, I have to get someone to run me back and forth. Then there are the expenses of my time for all the shirt and hat orders, time purchasing supplies, computer time on setting up forms, banquet tickets, phone calls, etc. Last year I was reimbursed $100 to cover some of my unlisted expenses but they were probably much less this year and I'm not expecting any pay on them. This is not to say that I suspect anyone is questioning my motives. I'm just wanting to see the Gathering continue to grow each year and be a learning and fun experience for everyone. Enough said I think on my part. Larry Flesner _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 12:28:32 -0500 From: "rvz" Subject: Re: KR> Gathering Date/place follow-up To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <120501c5b888$9054d970$e0dea8c0@big> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Since I'm still a wanna-be*, I'll post this as a question rather than a suggestion. It's probably been discussed before and I just haven't noticed it in the archives. Why wouldn't ya'll want to have the gathering coincide with one of the major fly-ins? If it were Oshkosh I know of at least one airport (far enough from OSH to avoid the zoo atmosphere) that would host it and allow camping. I wouldn't want to discount the importance of the gathering to anyone, but let's be brutally honest, it is a relatively small event, and I'm sure at least a few more would attend were it part of a larger venue. A few days at another airport prior to Oshkosh would keep the 'tight-knit' feel of the gathering, allow those who are so inclined to attend the bigger show, and of course address the autumn weather issue. Another obvious airport choice, if the city managers allow it, would be Mark Jones' base, Hartford. Just fuel for the fire here, since I don't really have a 'vote', for the moment anyway*. To be honest, wrapping it around OSH wouldn't be my first choice, I'd go for Sun-n-Fun (more weather issues) or Copperstate. Again, not my place to vote. Bob *I recently picked up a pile of KR entrails, and am still trying to decide what to do with them. To be specific, I'd like to talk offlist to anyone who's cut and spliced a fuselage back together, my questions relate to how it was done, strength issues at the splice, etc. As you can probably guess, wood is a whole new ballgame for me, glass and metal is what I worked with in the past. Anyone need a VW engine mount? Appears to be professionally built, welds are TIG and look good. I won't be using it though, got a Corvair engine in the corner waiting for Corvair College. ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 12:33:54 -0500 From: "Mark Jones" Subject: RE: R?f. : KR> RE: Dual Ignition Systems, it Saved My Bacon - CORRECTION To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <26D1C67793459F43BF8DA235F92B1F357C449F@tulsaexchange.tulsaokmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I have never said it was a better system and do not advocate that it is. It was my personal decision to use a points distributor with two sets of independent points for it's simplicity and reliability. Now mind you, a wire broke not the distributor system. Mags have been proven too, so it is your choice. I also personally think that anyone who flies without redundant systems is asking to have Daisy's growing over them. Every critical electrical and fuel system in my plane is redundant. Why would you not have back up systems? Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI Visit my web site: http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj Email: flykr2s@wi.rr.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Serge VIDAL Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 12:11 PM To: KRnet Subject: Réf. : KR> RE: Dual Ignition Systems, it Saved My Bacon - CORRECTION I remember having been flamed out once when I expressed my lack of confidence in the magnetos, and stated that my system consisted of two totally independent solid state ignition systems. The question was: "if your system is so much better than the good o'l magnetos, then why ya making it redundant?" Originally, I decided for redundancy because I wanted to make the certification people happy, but thinking of it, redundancy is also an answer to real life problems in aviation: bad luck, and failure to notice trouble in the making. Serge Vidal KR2 "Kilimanjaro Cloud" Paris, France "Mark Jones" Envoyé par : krnet-bounces@mylist.net 2005-09-13 17:00 Veuillez répondre à KRnet Remis le : 2005-09-13 16:56 Pour : "Corvair engines for homebuilt aircraft" , "KR Net (E-mail)" cc : (ccc : Serge VIDAL/DNSA/SAGEM) Objet : KR> RE: Dual Ignition Systems, it Saved My Bacon - CORRECTION John, You are absolutely correct. What am I thinking and I am surprised my hand was not called on this sooner. The wire that actually broke was the coil primary circuit wire to the points. It broke where it connects to the post on the coil and not the condenser wire. My mistake in describing the problem. Regardless, dual ignition ran independently of each other is the way to go. If you were to run them both together and one failed, you would never know it and then later on if the other one failed you would be without a back up. When ran independently, they can each be tested prior to flight and you will know both are working. Sorry for the mix up in my analysis report and thanks for opening my eyes. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI Visit my web site: http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj Email: flykr2s@wi.rr.com -----Original Message----- From: corvaircraft-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:corvaircraft-bounces@mylist.net]On Behalf Of John Brannen Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 9:13 AM To: Corvair engines for homebuilt aircraft Subject: Re: CorvAircraft> Dual Ignition Systems, it Saved My Bacon Mark, Congrats on getting her down safely. One question though. If it was the condenser wire, how do you have it connected? Every condenser install I have seen would only result in the points burning faster if you lost the condenser. I would have guessed you would get errant firing before complete ignition loss. John B. Mark Jones wrote: I pulled my cowl look for the problem and found that the condenser wire had broken at the coil. A pair of wire strippers and a wrench and two minutes later the problem was fixed. _________________________________________________________ search the CorvAircraft archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/corvairsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from CorvAircraft, send a message to CorvAircraft-leave@mylist.net Other CorvAircraft list info is at http://www.krnet.org/corvaircraft_inst.html _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 12:36:24 -0500 From: "Ronald R.Eason" Subject: RE: KR> Gathering Date To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <200509131036435.SM01016@CADENGINEERING> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I will second that. Krron -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net] On Behalf Of Mark Jones Sent: Monday, September 12, 2005 8:45 PM To: KR Net Subject: KR> Gathering Date After thinking more on the subject, I vote for the last weekend in September or first weekend in October. Unfortunately we can not please everyone with the date or location. Therefore, we must all do our absolute best to accept the final outcome and plan ahead to schedule your time to be at the Gathering. Whatever is decided upon, I will always make a 110% effort to be there. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 12:44:55 -0500 From: "Mark Jones" Subject: RE: KR> Gathering Date/place follow-up To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <26D1C67793459F43BF8DA235F92B1F357C44A1@tulsaexchange.tulsaokmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I could be wrong but I do not feel that would be a good decision based on the fact that most folks would have to take a week or more vacation time to attend a KR Gathering which was backed up to Osh or S&F or any other major event. On a side note, we had a mini KR gathering at my hanger at HXF the day before Osh with three KR's there and about 15 folks who drove in. I will do this every year before Oshkosh for those who are willing to be there. One major KR Gathering a year with mini Gatherings like I had and others have had is, I feel, the only way to go. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI Visit my web site: http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj Email: flykr2s@wi.rr.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces+flykr2s=wi.rr.com@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces+flykr2s=wi.rr.com@mylist.net]On Behalf Of rvz Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 12:29 PM To: KRnet Subject: Re: KR> Gathering Date/place follow-up Since I'm still a wanna-be*, I'll post this as a question rather than a suggestion. It's probably been discussed before and I just haven't noticed it in the archives. Why wouldn't ya'll want to have the gathering coincide with one of the major fly-ins? If it were Oshkosh I know of at least one airport (far enough from OSH to avoid the zoo atmosphere) that would host it and allow camping. I wouldn't want to discount the importance of the gathering to anyone, but let's be brutally honest, it is a relatively small event, and I'm sure at least a few more would attend were it part of a larger venue. A few days at another airport prior to Oshkosh would keep the 'tight-knit' feel of the gathering, allow those who are so inclined to attend the bigger show, and of course address the autumn weather issue. Another obvious airport choice, if the city managers allow it, would be Mark Jones' base, Hartford. Just fuel for the fire here, since I don't really have a 'vote', for the moment anyway*. To be honest, wrapping it around OSH wouldn't be my first choice, I'd go for Sun-n-Fun (more weather issues) or Copperstate. Again, not my place to vote. Bob *I recently picked up a pile of KR entrails, and am still trying to decide what to do with them. To be specific, I'd like to talk offlist to anyone who's cut and spliced a fuselage back together, my questions relate to how it was done, strength issues at the splice, etc. As you can probably guess, wood is a whole new ballgame for me, glass and metal is what I worked with in the past. Anyone need a VW engine mount? Appears to be professionally built, welds are TIG and look good. I won't be using it though, got a Corvair engine in the corner waiting for Corvair College. _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 361 *************************************** ================================== ABC Amber Outlook Converter v4.20 Trial version ==================================