From: krnet-bounces+johnbou=speakeasy.net@mylist.net To: John Bouyea Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 369 Date: 9/18/2005 9:00:23 PM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Experimental Amateur Built Certification/Repairman (Rich Seifert) 2. Re: Experimental Amateur Built Certification/Repairman (Kenneth B. Jones) 3. KR-2 Building Assistance (CCHeatherly@aol.com) 4. Re: KR Info (JAMES FERRIS) 5. Re: KR-2 Building Assistance (Orma) 6. Re: KR Info (Orma) 7. Re: KR-2 Building Assistance (CCHeatherly@aol.com) 8. Re: KR-2 Building Assistance (Robert L. Stone) 9. Re: KR-2 Building Assistance (Robert L. Stone) 10. Re: First Passengers (Phil Matheson) 11. Re: KR-2 Building Assistance (CCHeatherly@aol.com) 12. ready to fly (Joseph H. Horton) 13. gathering pics (elmiller) 14. Re: gathering pics (Dan Heath) 15. KR1's (Don Chisholm) 16. Re: KR1's (Dan Heath) 17. Re: First Passengers (larry flesner) 18. Re: KR Info (Lee Van Dyke) 19. Nosegear retrofit advice (Rich Meyer) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 22:17:14 -0700 From: "Rich Seifert" Subject: Re: KR> Experimental Amateur Built Certification/Repairman To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <003401c5bc10$3b09e510$6501a8c0@richard> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I am not a big fan of the FAA but a good many of their rules were made to protect the aviation industry in general from people doing things that reflect negatively upon the industry. When unqualified people are permitted to endanger themselves and the general public; That is pretty negative. The repairmans certificate is one of the rare gifts of the FAA. It helps the lisenced mechanic, the aircraft builder, and the industury. It relieves the mechanic of the liability of working on an aircraft he is unfamilure with and upon which there is little documentation on. Home built aircraft are not built on an assembly line, there are no two exactly alike, and they don't come with service manuals. Heck parts are not even interchangable. The repairmans certificate was ment to put the person who is intemently familure with the aircraft, and has the most to loose, responsible for its safe operation. In the end, it doesn't take a smart person to find a way around the rule. It takes a smart person to know his limitations, to protect his butt, and not become another statistic. Just my opinion ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: KR> Experimental Amateur Built Certification/Repairman > My thoughts are that taking a KR-2 (or other) that is 99.99% complete > and then completing it does not preclude certificating the aircraft as > experimental amateur built. AC20-27F Appendix 1, definition of Major > Portion, makes it crystal clear that you can count the construction efforts > of previous builders. This definition, although it does not > specifically apply in AC65-23A, might be used as part of an arguement > that you are the primary builder in your pursuit of the repairman > certificate for this aircraft. If you won this arguement, you would > still have to "demonstrate to the certificating FAA inspector > ....(your).... ability to perform condition inspections and to > determine whether the subject aircraft is in a > condition for safe operation." I think this is normally "demonstrated" by > showing your builder's log, but it seems this could be demonstrated > some other way, for example, you built most of another KR and then sold it (and > have evidence supporting that fact). I don't know if there is anything > that requires that you have built 51% to get the repairman certificate > (Apparently not, because, if a group of people build a plane, one may > be considered to become the repairman for that plane.) It is clear, > however, that you can get the airworthiness certificate without having > built 51% yourself. Much depends on your FAA office as well as the > individuals supporting that office, especially if you are not armed > with a knowledge of > the regulations and other guidance material. > ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 09:59:58 -0400 From: "Kenneth B. Jones" Subject: Re: KR> Experimental Amateur Built Certification/Repairman To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <00c701c5bc59$4215bfc0$8d7ba8c0@oemcomputer> > In the end, it doesn't take a smart person to find a way around the > rule. It takes a smart person to know his limitations, to protect his > butt, and not become another statistic. Rich, I agree with your statements above and I apologize for not expressing my thoughts more clearly. For the record, I in no way intended to encourage anyone to "find a way around the rule". To the contrary, I encourage reading and studying the rules and other regulatory guidance, such as Advisory Circulars, so you know what you're allowed to do as well as what you're required to do. After that, you can make your decisions based on the requirements and allowances, tempered by your own personal limitations. You included part of my original message. The next few lines of my message included: "Read AC 65-23A & AC 20-27F (You should read these documents if you are contemplating building and becoming the repairman for an experimental amateur built airplane.)" Regards, Ken Jones, kenbjones@cinci.rr.com Sharonville, OH N5834, aka The Porkopolis Flying Pig ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rich Seifert" To: "KRnet" Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2005 1:17 AM Subject: Re: KR> Experimental Amateur Built Certification/Repairman >I am not a big fan of the FAA but a good many of their rules were made >to protect the aviation industry in general from people doing things >that reflect negatively upon the industry. When unqualified people >are permitted to endanger themselves and the general public; That is >pretty negative. The > repairmans certificate is one of the rare gifts of the FAA. It helps the > lisenced mechanic, the aircraft builder, and the industury. It relieves > the > mechanic of the liability of working on an aircraft he is unfamilure with > and upon which there is little documentation on. Home built aircraft are > not built on an assembly line, there are no two exactly alike, and they > don't come with service manuals. Heck parts are not even interchangable. > The repairmans certificate was ment to put the person who is intemently > familure with the aircraft, and has the most to loose, responsible for its > safe operation. > In the end, it doesn't take a smart person to find a way around the > rule. It takes a smart person to know his limitations, to protect his > butt, > and not become another statistic. > Just my opinion > ----- Original Message ----- > > Subject: Re: KR> Experimental Amateur Built Certification/Repairman > > >> My thoughts are that taking a KR-2 (or other) that is 99.99% complete >> and then completing it does not preclude certificating the aircraft >> as experimental amateur built. AC20-27F Appendix 1, definition of >> Major Portion, makes it crystal clear that you can count the >> construction > efforts >> of previous builders. This definition, although it does not >> specifically apply in AC65-23A, might be used as part of an arguement >> that you are the primary builder in your pursuit of the repairman >> certificate for this aircraft. If you won this arguement, you would >> still have to "demonstrate to the certificating FAA inspector >> ....(your).... ability to perform condition inspections and to >> determine whether the subject aircraft is in > a >> condition for safe operation." I think this is normally "demonstrated" > by >> showing your builder's log, but it seems this could be demonstrated >> some other way, for example, you built most of another KR and then >> sold it (and >> have evidence supporting that fact). I don't know if there is anything >> that requires that you have built 51% to get the repairman >> certificate (Apparently not, because, if a group of people build a >> plane, one may be considered to become the repairman for that plane.) >> It is clear, however, that you can get the airworthiness certificate >> without having built 51% yourself. Much depends on your FAA office >> as well as the individuals supporting that office, especially if you >> are not armed with a knowledge > of >> the regulations and other guidance material. ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 12:07:50 EDT From: CCHeatherly@aol.com Subject: KR> KR-2 Building Assistance To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" To All, Requesting help in finding building assistance for compensation. I began the process of re-building my KR-2 but have been overcome by work. Please reply via email to CCHeatherly@aol.com . Thanks Charles ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 09:57:52 -0400 From: JAMES FERRIS Subject: Re: KR> KR Info To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20050919.125304.892.0.mijnil@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Omar: the most interesting part of thislist is the low end of the speed range, seven of them would b e in the light sport range at 51 MPH or less and if flaperons were use all of them woul qualify. Joe Beyer is qualified on the top speed end also,so it looks like a KR-2 could easly be built with a less expensive engine fo much less than 10K. Sincerely Jim ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 15:07:28 -0400 From: "Orma" Subject: Re: KR> KR-2 Building Assistance To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <001701c5bc84$38087330$0302a8c0@ROBBINS1> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original It might help if members knew where you and the KR are located. Orma L. Robbins Southfield, MI KR-2 N110LR 1984 See Tweety at http://www.kr-2.aviation-mechanics.com See other KR spces at www.kr-2.aviation-mechanics.com/krinfo.htm ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 15:09:40 -0400 From: "Orma" Subject: Re: KR> KR Info To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <001a01c5bc84$86971380$0302a8c0@ROBBINS1> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original I wanted to get info from all the pilots with KR's at the gathering. I did not get there until Saturday night and did not get any info. Hopefully they will contact me with the info for their planes soon, so that even more stats are presented. Orma Southfield, MI KR-2 N110LR 1984 See Tweety at http://www.kr-2.aviation-mechanics.com See other KR spces at www.kr-2.aviation-mechanics.com/krinfo.htm ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 15:38:22 EDT From: CCHeatherly@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> KR-2 Building Assistance To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <157.59280808.305f1c2e@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Members, Reference KR-2 building assistance. My KR is located in South Carolina. However, can transport throughout the southeast. Charles ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 14:53:09 -0500 From: "Robert L. Stone" Subject: Re: KR> KR-2 Building Assistance To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <000c01c5bc8a$98961ad0$5d817646@yourat5qgaac3z> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Hi Charlie, Where do you live? There may be past or present builders in your area however you should have included your location in order to get replies. Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx rstone4@hot.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2005 11:07 AM Subject: KR> KR-2 Building Assistance > To All, > > Requesting help in finding building assistance for compensation. I > began > the > process of re-building my KR-2 but have been overcome by work. Please > reply > via email to CCHeatherly@aol.com . > > Thanks > > Charles > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 14:57:27 -0500 From: "Robert L. Stone" Subject: Re: KR> KR-2 Building Assistance To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <002201c5bc8b$32798d30$5d817646@yourat5qgaac3z> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Charlie, South Carolina is a large state so be specific, you just might find a builder or former builder who would be willing to help within a few miles. Bob Stone ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2005 2:38 PM Subject: Re: KR> KR-2 Building Assistance > Members, > Reference KR-2 building assistance. > My KR is located in South Carolina. However, can transport throughout > the southeast. Charles > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 07:04:07 +1000 From: "Phil Matheson" Subject: Re: KR> First Passengers To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <000601c5bc94$831e9b50$a0a6443d@Office> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Great to hear Mark. You must be proud, and very happy with all your are work. Phil Matheson mathesonp@dodo.com.au VH-PKR ( Phil's KR) 61 3 58833588 Australia.( Down Under) See My KR2 Building Web Page at: http://mywebpage.netscape.com/flyingkrphil/VHPKR.html See our VW Engines and Home built web page at http://www.vw-engines.com/ www.homebuilt-aviation.com/ http://corvair.vw-engines.com/ ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 18:07:14 EDT From: CCHeatherly@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> KR-2 Building Assistance To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <1c6.31351dbe.305f3f12@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Bob, Columbia, South Carolina is where the KR is located. ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 18:42:24 -0400 From: "Joseph H. Horton" Subject: KR> ready to fly To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20050918.184337.848.1.joe.kr2s.builder@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Well Guys I finished up just about every detail that I can think of to delay flying 357CJ this morning. I did get a few minutes to take her out for a couple taxi runs. The engine is running great after the installation of the nitride crank shaft. The timing is set, prop is indexed, and the run out on the hub is not to be found. The Microair transceiver came back from Australia last week and is installed and working great. Gap seals were installed this morning. The rebuild also took care of the last of the small oil leaks that she had. For those that don't know about the brake troubles I was having I had built with the entire Cleveland kit that was ordered through RandRobinson. As it turns out the nyflo tubing that is supplied with the kit is a little to thin in wall thickness ( In My Opinion) and the brakes would fade as the pedal pressure expanded the tubing. The new tubing is still 1/4" O.D. but the inside is 3/16" Now I have more stopping power and solid braking The only thing left to do is screw up some courage! Joe Horton, Coopersburg, PA. joe.kr2s.builder@juno.com ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 17:24:02 -0600 From: elmiller Subject: KR> gathering pics To: KRnet Message-ID: <1127085842.7879.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Content-Type: text/plain Netheads a list of flying krs at the 2005 gathering can be found at.. http://home.pcisys.net/~elmiller/gathering05.html Elva Miller Calhan CO ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 20:16:20 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) From: "Dan Heath" Subject: Re: KR> gathering pics To: Message-ID: <432E0354.000005.01848@DANHOMECOMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Thank you very much. See you in Mt. Vernon - 2006 - KR Gathering See N64KR at http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on the pics There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for building has expired. Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC -------Original Message------- From: elmiller Date: 09/18/05 19:24:41 To: KRnet Subject: KR> gathering pics Netheads a list of flying krs at the 2005 gathering can be found at.. http://home.pcisys.net/~elmiller/gathering05.html Elva Miller Calhan CO _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 20:25:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Don Chisholm Subject: KR> KR1's To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20050919002507.77035.qmail@web88002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 couldn't make thje gathering we had our chapter fly in on the same weekend that I was commited to. I'd be interested to see pictures of KR1's that made the gathering. after all that is the first airplane in the movement ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 20:36:26 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) From: "Dan Heath" Subject: Re: KR> KR1's To: Message-ID: <432E080A.000007.01848@DANHOMECOMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" There were none. Richard Shirley is the only KR1 that I have ever seen at the gathering and Steve Bennett has a 1 1/2 that he brings, but he could not make it either. See you in Mt. Vernon - 2006 - KR Gathering See N64KR at http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on the pics There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for building has expired. Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC -------Original Message------- From: Don Chisholm Date: 09/18/05 20:26:00 To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR> KR1's couldn't make thje gathering we had our chapter fly in on the same weekend that I was commited to. I'd be interested to see pictures of KR1's that made the gathering. after all that is the first airplane in the movement _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 17 Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 20:10:05 -0500 From: larry flesner Subject: Re: KR> First Passengers To: KRnet Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20050918201005.008bd100@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 06:48 PM 9/17/05 -0500, you wrote: >Today, I carried my first passengers up in my KR-2S. First, I flew my >youngest son (Nicholas, 6) and then took my older son (Carter, 7) up for a >ride. >Mark Jones ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ And now you're about to find something more difficult than building an airplane, telling one of them they can't go "this time". Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Message: 18 Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 18:12:59 -0700 From: "Lee Van Dyke" Subject: Re: KR> KR Info To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <000a01c5bcb7$46482f20$7301a8c0@SNAKEBITE> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" this is the info on my plane ------------------------------ Message: 19 Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 22:52:33 -0500 From: "Rich Meyer" Subject: KR> Nosegear retrofit advice To: "'KRnet'" Cc: bgdfix@wm.com Message-ID: <000201c5bccd$9c358d40$3decfea9@RHM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I see five tri-gears in a quick scan of Elva Miller's pix: Jack Daurghty (sp?), Brian Douglas, Ken Jones, Mark Jones and Steve Jones. From old posts, I think at least Brian Douglas and Mike Geoghegan did a retrofit, also James Babcock from his reply to me. I'd really like to talk to someone who has done the retrofit, please contact me by email off-list or by phone, Thanks, Rich Meyer Millersburg IN 46543 cptcsd@npcc.net phone 574-642-3963 cell 574-202-3920 ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 369 *************************************** ================================== ABC Amber Outlook Converter v4.20 Trial version ==================================