From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net To: John Bouyea Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 370 Date: 9/19/2005 10:01:44 AM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Experimental Amateur Built Certification/Repairman (Rich Seifert) 2. R?f. : Re: R?f. : RE: R?f. : KR> RE: Dual Ignition Systems, it Saved My Bacon - CORRECTION (Serge VIDAL) 3. Nose Gear question (jeffyork40@qx.net) 4. RE: Nose Gear question (Mark Jones) 5. Widening the boat (Orma) 6. Re: Nose Gear question (jeffyork40@qx.net) 7. KR1'S (Don Chisholm) 8. building fibreglass geer legs. (harold woods) 9. Re: Nose Gear question (L. D. Mueller) 10. RE: Nose Gear question (Mark Jones) 11. Re: Nose Gear question (jeffyork40@qx.net) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 21:14:47 -0700 From: "Rich Seifert" Subject: Re: KR> Experimental Amateur Built Certification/Repairman To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <004501c5bcd0$abe5f100$6501a8c0@richard> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Thanks for the explanation Ken. Sorry I didn't pick that up the first time. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kenneth B. Jones" To: "KRnet" Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2005 6:59 AM Subject: Re: KR> Experimental Amateur Built Certification/Repairman > > In the end, it doesn't take a smart person to find a way around > > the rule. It takes a smart person to know his limitations, to > > protect his butt, and not become another statistic. > > Rich, > > I agree with your statements above and I apologize for not expressing > my thoughts more clearly. For the record, I in no way intended to > encourage anyone to "find a way around the rule". To the contrary, I > encourage reading and studying the rules and other regulatory > guidance, such as Advisory Circulars, so you know what you're allowed > to do as well as what you're required to do. After that, you can make > your decisions based on the > requirements and allowances, tempered by your own personal > limitations. > > You included part of my original message. The next few lines of my message > included: > > "Read AC 65-23A & AC 20-27F (You should read these documents if you > are contemplating building and becoming the repairman for an > experimental amateur built airplane.)" > > Regards, > > Ken Jones, kenbjones@cinci.rr.com > Sharonville, OH > N5834, aka The Porkopolis Flying Pig > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rich Seifert" > To: "KRnet" > Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2005 1:17 AM > Subject: Re: KR> Experimental Amateur Built Certification/Repairman > > > >I am not a big fan of the FAA but a good many of their rules were > >made to protect the aviation industry in general from people doing > >things that reflect negatively upon the industry. When unqualified > >people are permitted to endanger themselves and the general public; > >That is pretty negative. The > > repairmans certificate is one of the rare gifts of the FAA. It helps the > > lisenced mechanic, the aircraft builder, and the industury. It > > relieves the mechanic of the liability of working on an aircraft he > > is unfamilure with > > and upon which there is little documentation on. Home built > > aircraft are > > not built on an assembly line, there are no two exactly alike, and > > they don't come with service manuals. Heck parts are not even interchangable. > > The repairmans certificate was ment to put the person who is > > intemently familure with the aircraft, and has the most to loose, > > responsible for its > > safe operation. > > In the end, it doesn't take a smart person to find a way around > > the rule. It takes a smart person to know his limitations, to > > protect his butt, and not become another statistic. > > Just my opinion > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > Subject: Re: KR> Experimental Amateur Built Certification/Repairman > > > > > >> My thoughts are that taking a KR-2 (or other) that is 99.99% > >> complete and > >> then completing it does not preclude certificating the aircraft as > >> experimental amateur built. AC20-27F Appendix 1, definition of > >> Major Portion, makes it crystal clear that you can count the > >> construction > > efforts > >> of previous builders. This definition, although it does not specifically > >> apply in AC65-23A, might be used as part of an arguement that you > >> are the > >> primary builder in your pursuit of the repairman certificate for > >> this aircraft. If you won this arguement, you would still have to > >> "demonstrate to the certificating FAA inspector ....(your).... > >> ability to perform condition inspections and to determine whether > >> the subject aircraft is in > > a > >> condition for safe operation." I think this is normally "demonstrated" > > by > >> showing your builder's log, but it seems this could be demonstrated some > >> other way, for example, you built most of another KR and then sold > >> it (and > >> have evidence supporting that fact). I don't know if there is anything > >> that requires that you have built 51% to get the repairman > >> certificate (Apparently not, because, if a group of people build a > >> plane, one may be > >> considered to become the repairman for that plane.) It is clear, > >> however, that you can get the airworthiness certificate without > >> having built 51% yourself. Much depends on your FAA office as well > >> as the individuals supporting that office, especially if you are > >> not armed with a knowledge > > of > >> the regulations and other guidance material. > > > > > > ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 11:08:29 +0200 From: Serge VIDAL Subject: R?f. : Re: R?f. : RE: R?f. : KR> RE: Dual Ignition Systems, it Saved My Bacon - CORRECTION To: KRnet Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" OK. Let's kill that subject once for all. My point was to warn other builders that when you order the 1.5 inch wide 4130 steel to make your WAFs, you may end up with something slightly narrower, as I experienced with my order from Aircraft Spruce. This might be an issue, so check what you buy before you start drilling, and adapt your drawing accordingly to keep a good wall thickness. End of the advice. Now, in MY case, the problem is made slightly worse by the fact that my WAF holes are 1/4". As most of you know, I live in France, and am busy rebuilding my South-African born KR2. The plan is to make it more inspectable (that's the airworthiness authority requirement), and using the opportunity, to cure any ageing problems (that is my personal requirement). Obviously, the holes are already drilled in the wood, so I have to live with the current holes sizes and location. Now, living in France, my options to rebuild the WAFs are also limited. The material specified in the KR2 is pretty standard, but the problem is, it is US standard. Finding material to US specifications here is a nightmare. Europe is metric, not British imperial. If you want steel for your WAFs, well, you will not find 3.2mm thickness (that is what 1/8" translates into), but an integer in millimeters (3, 4, 5?). Meaning that your BOLTS would now be wrong, and ordering US aircraft bolts is ALSO an issue. . Not to mention the fact that steel is not classified the same way, so I would have to find what exactly is the nearest equivalent of 4130, then pray for it being commonly found in the nearest equivalent thickness and width... Because, you see, Europe is ALREADY built, so there is a much smaller market for raw materials in general, and therefore, less outlets. Mail orders are not well developed either, because the distribution system is so expensive... I wanted to redo two of my WAFs, because the bolt was an oversize (I mean, they are an AN-7 hole instead of an AN-6) , and I don't like that. Now, I sit with a dilemma: either I put back the old WAFs, and I have to live with the idea of having one WAF bolt that is unmatched, or I put the new pair of WAFs instead, and then, I have to live with the idea of having two WAFs that are slightly weaker than the 14 others. Which one I am going to choose is an issue that concerns only me and my airworthiness authority. A consideration will be that my WAFs (both new and old) are pretty well built, and are a tight fit. Now, if you want to convince me that I must redo my WAFs or do endless calculations, or seek professional advice from a stress engineer, or see a shrink, forget it! Also, there is no way I am going to order, again, steel from the US (talk about a cheap shipment bill!), with no guarantee of what I will get... FORGET IT! ;-) (Bob, thank you indeed for your post. It is always interesting to learn more about procedures used in airliner construction. I was not familiar with the existence of "Liaison engineers" in the civilian world. We do have the equivalent in the military,). Serge Vidal KR2 "Kilimanjaro Cloud" Paris, France "Robert Morrissey" Envoyé par : krnet-bounces@mylist.net 2005-09-17 02:37 Veuillez répondre à KRnet Remis le : 2005-09-17 02:35 Pour : "KRnet" cc : (ccc : Serge VIDAL/DNSA/SAGEM) Objet : Re: Réf. : RE: Réf. : KR> RE: Dual Ignition Systems, it Saved My Bacon - CORRECTION Serge: As a former "Liaison Engineer' for a big aerospace company that was bought out by Boeing I will give you the SOP (standard operating procedure) for your aircrafts 'non conformance' that occurred during 'manufacturing' or 'depot level overhaul". (My text book answer) FOR THE; a. original WAFs with the oversize 3/8 inch hole---are they a standard oversize? Let us assume they are not a standard size. Looking at FWD WING ATTACH FITTINGS, drawing no. 18 in my RR book pg.23 dated january 1990 the WAF is 1 1/2 inch wide and has a 3/8 dia. hole drilled 3/4 inch from the end. In my working days I would go to a stress engineer, show him the part drawing, identify the 3/8 hole is oversize and tell him what my method of repair was to be. The stress engineer typically went to his books and evaluated the over size hole condition as a 'lug analysis' with reduced edge distance (tear out) and 100% of the time went along with the installation of a larger diameter fastener. For really critical lugs, with really screwed up damage, I actually had inspection record the tear out as well as the actual part thickness and provided this data to the stress engineer. The hole could be drilled to an oversize such as 1/64 oversize, 1/32 oversize or even a next full size standard size as was required by the part condition.. Any hole increased in size must have the same fastener/hole assembly tolerances as the rest of the WAFs. If there was a possibility of the oversize bolt being removed in the future the area was marked to denote the hole and special size fastener. For those parts that would undergo constant bolt removal and replacement then a minimum 0.016 inch wall thickness bushing would be pressed fit into the discrepant part. The bushing would have a 0.0005 to 0.001 inch press fit and be of the same material. This would bring the discrepant part back to blueprint. b. for your new WAFS-- my drawing referenced above shows a series of 3/16 inch diameter holes located 1/4 inch from the long edge of the part. If I take half of the 3/16 inch and subtract it from the 1/4 inch we have 5/32 (0.0156inch) of an inch for tear out. That is not much edge distance. As an intelligent guess, if you are looking at tear out of less than 0.140 inch I would not use them. I am going to ignore the fact that the WAF drawings used are not to aircraft standards. I have never seen fractions used on such a critical machined part. Standard sheet metal tolerances are +- 0.030 inch. Can you see what would happen on the WAF if that tolerance was used indiscriminately during manufacture? How about checking your WAF holes to see what kind of assembly tolerance your fittings have. I never did get involved in reliability engineering during my work career but I do love redundancy. I hope the above info gives you a feel for what you have on your hands Do you have any friends that are stress engineers that you can pass this by? Regards Bob Morrissey, New Bern NC ----- Original Message ----- From: "Serge VIDAL" To: "KRnet" Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 5:16 AM Subject: Réf. : RE: Réf. : KR> RE: Dual Ignition Systems, it Saved My Bacon - CORRECTION Well, as a former reliability expert, I can give you the text book answer: - Reliability is risk management; - The universally accepted method of managing that risk is what gives birth to aircraft safety standards; - The authorities (like ICAO) are supposed to define what is your acceptable level of risk for the activity (roughly, basically, deaths per X flight hours). - At designer level, you then find what is likely to cause these risks, and define "unwanted events" (example: power loss, flight controls failure, etc.) - If failure of one component that is likely to cause an unwanted event is so unlikely that it is less than the acceptable risk level, then you don't have to do anything about it. You assess that by estimating the probability of failure (occurrence) and its consequences (severity), to define the level of CRITICITY. A part can be non critical because it is so unlikely to fail, or because .. If it is not the case, then you have to improve the reliability. You have many ways to do that, (can be better technology, better part design, monitoring, maintenance, you name it.). Of course, one method is redundancy. It is seldom the correct answer, but it is generally the easiest, and that's why it is so popular in aviation. Now, this is the rule for expensive designs (airliners, jet fighters, nuclear power plants, space shuttles or whatever). In general aviation, the trouble is it is not affordable to calculate exactly all the risks attached to all the parts and equipment. So, we apply a rule of thumb, which is: no single failure may lead to an unwanted event. That is what you do with your ignition or fuel system. But we also apply criticity, through return of experience of 100 years of designing and flying. We know that single engine is an acceptable solution, so we don't make the engine redundant. But we make the engine's most critical components redundant. The ignition, but not the carb... Likewise, we know that control cables are unlikely to fail, provided you rig them properly and inspect them regularly, so we don't make them redundant either. In my opinion, the statistics of engine failure in aviation are an absolute shame, and the ignition is the main culprit. So, I go for a better technology, and ultimately, as soon as it will become practical, I will go for an engine technology without ignition: the Diesel engine. Serge Vidal KR2 "Kilimanjaro Cloud" Paris, FranceSent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 9:13 AM To: Corvair engines for homebuilt aircraft Subject: Re: CorvAircraft> Dual Ignition Systems, it Saved My Bacon _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 09:30:30 -0400 From: Subject: KR> Nose Gear question To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <0a0901c5bd1e$5fe5c750$6864a8c0@server> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" OK, So I may not supply quite enough info for a complete evaluation but, I am going to try and get your alls advise. Yesterday when I went to rotate to take off, just at or before the nose gear lifted, I felt a pretty significant shimmy in the nose gear. The nose came up and the airplane lifted off. I decided to pull the power and set back down. I pulled the power, let the plane sit back down and upon the nose gear touch down, the shimmy came back but much worse. I was actually wondering if it was the nose wheel or something significantly out of balance with the engine. I never really looked at the air speed indicator but I looked at the tach and noticed that I still had 2200 RPM and was having a difficult time getting the RPM's to come down. I have the vernier ( screw in and out ) type throttle so I began back screwing the throttle. Everything finally slowed down and I taxied off and back to my hanger. Upon inspection of the nose wheel it appears that the bolt that appears to hold the little coil spring posts centered, has bent. Or maybe it was bent before I started. I also want to point out that the free castering nose wheel self centers when you lift up on the front end, a test I was told indicates that you have the right tension and such on the nose wheel. In testing a couple of them at the gathering, I noticed they did not self center and those owners indicated they had no shimmy issues. By the way that information was not meant as any criticism of anyone else's KR. I just wanted to compare my nose gear adjustment to others while there. Here is my question. Did I let the nose gear touch down with to much speed thus precipitating the shimmy? Did I do a poor preflight and this centering bolt was already bent ( Slightly, spring still looks to still be contained ) ? Is it possible that I let the plane stay planted to long and had to mush speed before I pulled the nose wheel come up? Thus precipitated the whole thing. Maybe I need to look at the nose gear at the point of the engine mount / fire wall? Your thoughts experiences? Jeff York KR-2 Flying N839BG Home page http//:web.qx.net/jeffyork40/ My KR-2 http://web.qx.net/jeffyork40/Airplane/ to see my KR-2 Email jeffyork40@qx.net ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 08:57:17 -0500 From: "Mark Jones" Subject: RE: KR> Nose Gear question To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <26D1C67793459F43BF8DA235F92B1F357C44C7@tulsaexchange.tulsaokmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Jeff, It sounds as if you are referring to the Diehl nose gear which is what I have. I have never had an issue with shimmy on mine. I have rotated at speeds as high as 75 mph and landed as high as 85 mph all with no shimmy. The spring on mine does not contact the centering bolt when the gear is lined up straight. There is (guessing) a 1/8" space on each side of the bolt between it and the spring. This allows for some free castering before contact with the spring. The purpose of the spring is to help align the nose wheel for landing. You mentioned the centering bolt being bent and I think you had to do that prior to your shimmy. With the stops on the nose gear, I just don't see how it could bend while taxiing. I can turn my plane either direction to it's limits and it will not bend the bolt. When you begin your take off roll, apply enough up elevator to relieve most of the weight off the nose wheel without taking it off the pavement. Once you establish enough speed to control the plane with rudder, gently raise the nose off the pavement and wait for the plane to fly itself off the runway. Upon landing and after the mains touch down, keep the nose up as long as possible until it settles on it's on onto the runway and continue to apply up elevator as you slow down. One thing to note is that with the nose gear, the plane will stay on the runway and not float in ground effect once the mains touch down. It will bounce on a hard landing as will any airplane. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI Visit my web site: http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj Email: flykr2s@wi.rr.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On Behalf Of jeffyork40@qx.net Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 8:31 AM To: KRnet Subject: KR> Nose Gear question OK, So I may not supply quite enough info for a complete evaluation but, I am going to try and get your alls advise. Yesterday when I went to rotate to take off, just at or before the nose gear lifted, I felt a pretty significant shimmy in the nose gear. The nose came up and the airplane lifted off. I decided to pull the power and set back down. I pulled the power, let the plane sit back down and upon the nose gear touch down, the shimmy came back but much worse. I was actually wondering if it was the nose wheel or something significantly out of balance with the engine. I never really looked at the air speed indicator but I looked at the tach and noticed that I still had 2200 RPM and was having a difficult time getting the RPM's to come down. I have the vernier ( screw in and out ) type throttle so I began back screwing the throttle. Everything finally slowed down and I taxied off and back to my hanger. Upon inspection of the nose wheel it appears that the bolt that appears to hold the little coil spring posts centered, has bent. Or maybe it was bent before I started. I also want to point out that the free castering nose wheel self centers when you lift up on the front end, a test I was told indicates that you have the right tension and such on the nose wheel. In testing a couple of them at the gathering, I noticed they did not self center and those owners indicated they had no shimmy issues. By the way that information was not meant as any criticism of anyone else's KR. I just wanted to compare my nose gear adjustment to others while there. Here is my question. Did I let the nose gear touch down with to much speed thus precipitating the shimmy? Did I do a poor preflight and this centering bolt was already bent ( Slightly, spring still looks to still be contained ) ? Is it possible that I let the plane stay planted to long and had to mush speed before I pulled the nose wheel come up? Thus precipitated the whole thing. Maybe I need to look at the nose gear at the point of the engine mount / fire wall? Your thoughts experiences? Jeff York KR-2 Flying N839BG Home page http//:web.qx.net/jeffyork40/ My KR-2 http://web.qx.net/jeffyork40/Airplane/ to see my KR-2 Email jeffyork40@qx.net _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 10:02:19 -0400 From: "Orma" Subject: KR> Widening the boat To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <00a801c5bd22$c1d051c0$0302a8c0@ROBBINS1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hello Net Mike Turner has given me the edit to the boat widening web page and I have uploaded it along with several new pictures. The page had 127 unique hits since it was uploaded. There is a lot of interest in this procedure. http://www.kr-2.aviation-mechanics.com/widen.htm Orma Southfield, MI KR-2 N110LR 1984 See Tweety at http://www.kr-2.aviation-mechanics.com See other KR spces at www.kr-2.aviation-mechanics.com/krinfo.htm ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 10:58:18 -0400 From: Subject: Re: KR> Nose Gear question To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <0a1001c5bd2a$a45b4c50$6864a8c0@server> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Yes, It is the Diehl. Yes there is a gap space between the on each side of the bolt between it and the spring. NOt sure how the bolt would have gotten bent. the bend is ever so slight. May be moot to the subject. I am sure I was not doing 75 when I pulled off and not as high as 85 when I touched back down so it helps to hear that you have been able to do so without this issue. By the way, this is the first time my plane has done this. I also appreciate the info on your take off on your methods. This is why I was hoping to catch a ride with someone at the gathering. Wanted to get more info and feel from those flying, espesially with the same configuration as mine. I think I need to look closely at the nose gear back at the fire wall engine mount side. Anybody out there near Georgetown/ Lexington KY Jeff York KR-2 Flying N839BG Home page http//:web.qx.net/jeffyork40/ My KR-2 http://web.qx.net/jeffyork40/Airplane/ to see my KR-2 Email jeffyork40@qx.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Jones" To: "KRnet" Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 9:57 AM Subject: RE: KR> Nose Gear question > Jeff, > It sounds as if you are referring to the Diehl nose gear which is what > I have. I have never had an issue with shimmy on mine. I have rotated at speeds as high as 75 mph and landed as high as 85 mph all with no shimmy. The spring on mine does not contact the centering bolt when the gear is lined up straight. There is (guessing) a 1/8" space on each side of the bolt between it and the spring. This allows for some free castering before contact with the spring. The purpose of the spring is to help align the nose wheel for landing. You mentioned the centering bolt being bent and I think you had to do that prior to your shimmy. With the stops on the nose gear, I just don't see how it could bend while taxiing. I can turn my plane either direction to it's limits and it will not bend the bolt. When you begin your take off roll, apply enough up elevator to relieve most of the weight off the nose wheel without taking it off the pavement. Once you establish enough speed to control the plane with rudder, gently raise the nose off the pavement and wait for the plane to fly itself off the runway. Upon landing and after the mains touch down, keep the nose up as long as possible until it settles on it's on onto the runway and continue to apply up elevator as you slow down. One thing to note is that with the nose gear, the plane will stay on the runway and not float in ground effect once the mains touch down. It will bounce on a hard landing as will any airplane. > > Mark Jones (N886MJ) > Wales, WI > Visit my web site: http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj > Email: flykr2s@wi.rr.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On > Behalf Of jeffyork40@qx.net > Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 8:31 AM > To: KRnet > Subject: KR> Nose Gear question > > > OK, So I may not supply quite enough info for a complete evaluation > but, I am going to try and get your alls advise. > > Yesterday when I went to rotate to take off, just at or before the > nose gear lifted, I felt a pretty significant shimmy in the nose gear. The nose came up and the airplane lifted off. I decided to pull the power and set back down. I pulled the power, let the plane sit back down and upon the nose gear touch down, the shimmy came back but much worse. I was actually wondering if it was the nose wheel or something significantly out of balance with the engine. > I never really looked at the air speed indicator but I looked at the > tach and noticed that I still had 2200 RPM and was having a difficult time getting the RPM's to come down. I have the vernier ( screw in and out ) type throttle so I began back screwing the throttle. Everything finally slowed down and I taxied off and back to my hanger. > > Upon inspection of the nose wheel it appears that the bolt that > appears to hold the little coil spring posts centered, has bent. Or maybe it was bent before I started. I also want to point out that the free castering nose wheel self centers when you lift up on the front end, a test I was told indicates that you have the right tension and such on the nose wheel. In testing a couple of them at the gathering, I noticed they did not self center and those owners indicated they had no shimmy issues. By the way that information was not meant as any criticism of anyone else's KR. I just wanted to compare my nose gear adjustment to others while there. > > Here is my question. Did I let the nose gear touch down with to much > speed thus precipitating the shimmy? Did I do a poor preflight and this centering bolt was already bent ( Slightly, spring still looks to still be contained ) ? > > Is it possible that I let the plane stay planted to long and had to > mush speed before I pulled the nose wheel come up? Thus precipitated the whole thing. Maybe I need to look at the nose gear at the point of the engine mount / fire wall? > > Your thoughts experiences? > > Jeff York > KR-2 Flying > N839BG > Home page http//:web.qx.net/jeffyork40/ > My KR-2 http://web.qx.net/jeffyork40/Airplane/ to see my KR-2 > Email jeffyork40@qx.net > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 11:03:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Don Chisholm Subject: KR> KR1'S To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20050919150400.95164.qmail@web88006.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 I guess I' d better get my bott in gear and show up at the next gathering with my KR1. I'm almost finished putting my VW engine back together and installing it back on the airplane. I haven't thrown the Posa away yet but will when I purchasec an Aerocarb as that is the only carb I can use without doing extensive modifications. I have to rework my intake a bit as running the Posa showed that I have an issue there. Oh well it was good for something. My friend Owen MacPherson has over 300 hours on his aerocarb on his KR2 and describes it as a Flintstone FADEC but it works. ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 11:42:38 -0400 From: "harold woods" Subject: KR> building fibreglass geer legs. To: Message-ID: <004401c5bd30$c5225a90$0501a8c0@HAROLD> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi Netters. Steve Phillabaum wanted information on making a fiberglass gear leg. I built my own. I used roving, which is fiberglass string, about the thickness of "butcher string". It came in a spool about a foot in diameter. I decided to build both legs at the same time I built a box form over twice the required gear length. It was about 3 inches wide and 1 inch deep.At each end of the box were rows and rows of nails. At this point I painted the entire inside of the box, nails enclosed with hot melted parafin wax., as a mould release agent.The roving was attached to the first nail strung along the bottom of the box, hooked over a nail at the other end, then strung back to the next nail in line. after the entire bottom of the box was covered with this "string" it was fibreglasses. I used a very slow hardener, Versamid 140. This gave a pot life of about 4 to 6 hours. After the box was full I set a piece of polyethylene over it and planed a closely fitted lid on the box.I squeezed the lid down with clamps starting at the center.This squeezed the excess epoxy out the ends. I removed the lid and plastic and added more layer of roving This was repeated until the box was filled to a depth of 1 inch with compressed roving. The lid was left on until the next day.The gear leg was removed and the wax was washed off with gasoline. I sacrificed an old band saw blade to cut the leg in half. I made this cut at an angle of about 25 degrees.Then back about a foot from where the cut slope begins I cut it off at 90 degrees. The short piece was then epoxied onto the main leg with the two 90 degree cut end together.This gave me a 2 inch thick leer leg which tapered down to 1 inch. The leg was mounted on a suitable aluminum bracket which was bolted to the front of the front spar.The gear leg has only one hole in it where it attaches to the bracket. Aluminum bars bolted to the bracket on the front and back hold the gear leg in firm position. A cover of 3/8" aluminum on top hold everything tight together. the other end of the gear leg has a spring steel plate bolted to it with 4 bolts. It was bent to suitably accept the wheel axel which was then bolted to it. I tested the gear leg by bolting it to a heavy support on one end and affixing a 2 x 2 x 1/8" x 10' angle iron to it. Weights were added and removed, checking to see that the gear returned back to it's original position. The weight was a 150 pound man that walked out on the angle iron. It bend of about 12 inches , the angle iron collapsed where it was bolted to the gear leg. The man was at about 9 feet from the gear leg end when the iron failed. I consider the gear leg good and strong. I subsequently have heard that the rear spring in a Corvette car has a suitable fiberglass spring . This should be investigated. before making your own. If any one wants diagrams of the box I would send it to them as an attachment. Regards Harold Woods Orillia,ON. Canada. haroldwoods@rogers.com ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 10:52:22 -0500 From: "L. D. Mueller" Subject: Re: KR> Nose Gear question To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <007a01c5bd32$209160a0$6500a8c0@LDM0D330DFBAF> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original You know that sometimes tire pressure will affect nose wheel shimmy. I hadn't seen that listed anywhere in reference to the shimmy issue. Newbee KR project owner . . . L. D. Mueller 521 North Madison Street Cuba City, WI 53807 608-744-3333 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "KRnet" Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 9:58 AM Subject: Re: KR> Nose Gear question > Yes, It is the Diehl. Yes there is a gap space between the on each > side of the bolt between it and the spring. NOt sure how the bolt > would have gotten bent. the bend is ever so slight. May be moot to the > subject. I am sure I was not doing 75 when I pulled off and not as > high as 85 when I > touched back down so it helps to hear that you have been able to do so > without this issue. By the way, this is the first time my plane has done > this. > I also appreciate the info on your take off on your methods. This is why I > was hoping to catch a ride with someone at the gathering. Wanted to get > more > info and feel from those flying, espesially with the same configuration as > mine. > I think I need to look closely at the nose gear back at the fire wall > engine > mount side. > > Anybody out there near Georgetown/ Lexington KY > > Jeff York > KR-2 Flying > N839BG > Home page http//:web.qx.net/jeffyork40/ > My KR-2 http://web.qx.net/jeffyork40/Airplane/ to see my KR-2 > Email jeffyork40@qx.net > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark Jones" > To: "KRnet" > Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 9:57 AM > Subject: RE: KR> Nose Gear question > > >> Jeff, >> It sounds as if you are referring to the Diehl nose gear which is >> what I > have. I have never had an issue with shimmy on mine. I have rotated at > speeds as high as 75 mph and landed as high as 85 mph all with no > shimmy. The spring on mine does not contact the centering bolt when > the gear is lined up straight. There is (guessing) a 1/8" space on > each side of the bolt between it and the spring. This allows for some > free castering before contact with the spring. The purpose of the > spring is to help align the nose > wheel for landing. You mentioned the centering bolt being bent and I think > you had to do that prior to your shimmy. With the stops on the nose gear, > I > just don't see how it could bend while taxiing. I can turn my plane either > direction to it's limits and it will not bend the bolt. When you begin > your > take off roll, apply enough up elevator to relieve most of the weight off > the nose wheel without taking it off the pavement. Once you establish > enough > speed to control the plane with rudder, gently raise the nose off the > pavement and wait for the plane to fly itself off the runway. Upon landing > and after the mains touch down, keep the nose up as long as possible until > it settles on it's on onto the runway and continue to apply up elevator as > you slow down. One thing to note is that with the nose gear, the plane > will > stay on the runway and not float in ground effect once the mains touch > down. > It will bounce on a hard landing as will any airplane. >> >> Mark Jones (N886MJ) >> Wales, WI >> Visit my web site: http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj >> Email: flykr2s@wi.rr.com >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On >> Behalf Of jeffyork40@qx.net >> Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 8:31 AM >> To: KRnet >> Subject: KR> Nose Gear question >> >> >> OK, So I may not supply quite enough info for a complete evaluation >> but, >> I > am going to try and get your alls advise. >> >> Yesterday when I went to rotate to take off, just at or before the >> nose > gear lifted, I felt a pretty significant shimmy in the nose gear. The > nose came up and the airplane lifted off. I decided to pull the power > and set back down. I pulled the power, let the plane sit back down and > upon the nose gear touch down, the shimmy came back but much worse. I > was actually wondering if it was the nose wheel or something > significantly out of balance > with the engine. >> I never really looked at the air speed indicator but I looked at the >> tach > and noticed that I still had 2200 RPM and was having a difficult time > getting the RPM's to come down. I have the vernier ( screw in and out > ) type throttle so I began back screwing the throttle. Everything > finally slowed down and I taxied off and back to my hanger. >> >> Upon inspection of the nose wheel it appears that the bolt that >> appears >> to > hold the little coil spring posts centered, has bent. Or maybe it was > bent before I started. I also want to point out that the free > castering nose wheel self centers when you lift up on the front end, a > test I was told indicates that you have the right tension and such on > the nose wheel. In testing a couple of them at the gathering, I > noticed they did not self center and those owners indicated they had > no shimmy issues. By the way that information was not meant as any > criticism of anyone else's KR. I just wanted to compare my nose gear > adjustment to others while there. >> >> Here is my question. Did I let the nose gear touch down with to much >> speed > thus precipitating the shimmy? Did I do a poor preflight and this > centering > bolt was already bent ( Slightly, spring still looks to still be > contained ) > ? >> >> Is it possible that I let the plane stay planted to long and had to >> mush > speed before I pulled the nose wheel come up? Thus precipitated the > whole thing. Maybe I need to look at the nose gear at the point of the > engine mount / fire wall? >> >> Your thoughts experiences? >> >> Jeff York >> KR-2 Flying >> N839BG >> Home page http//:web.qx.net/jeffyork40/ >> My KR-2 http://web.qx.net/jeffyork40/Airplane/ to see my KR-2 >> Email jeffyork40@qx.net >> _______________________________________ >> Search the KRnet Archives at >> http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net >> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html >> >> _______________________________________ >> Search the KRnet Archives at >> http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net >> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html >> > > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 10:59:32 -0500 From: "Mark Jones" Subject: RE: KR> Nose Gear question To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <26D1C67793459F43BF8DA235F92B1F357C44CB@tulsaexchange.tulsaokmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Good point. I run 40 psi in my tires. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI Visit my web site: http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj Email: flykr2s@wi.rr.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On Behalf Of L. D. Mueller Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 10:52 AM To: KRnet Subject: Re: KR> Nose Gear question You know that sometimes tire pressure will affect nose wheel shimmy. I hadn't seen that listed anywhere in reference to the shimmy issue. Newbee KR project owner . . . L. D. Mueller 521 North Madison Street Cuba City, WI 53807 608-744-3333 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "KRnet" Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 9:58 AM Subject: Re: KR> Nose Gear question > Yes, It is the Diehl. Yes there is a gap space between the on each > side of the bolt between it and the spring. NOt sure how the bolt > would have gotten bent. the bend is ever so slight. May be moot to the > subject. I am sure I was not doing 75 when I pulled off and not as > high as 85 when I > touched back down so it helps to hear that you have been able to do so > without this issue. By the way, this is the first time my plane has done > this. > I also appreciate the info on your take off on your methods. This is why I > was hoping to catch a ride with someone at the gathering. Wanted to get > more > info and feel from those flying, espesially with the same configuration as > mine. > I think I need to look closely at the nose gear back at the fire wall > engine > mount side. > > Anybody out there near Georgetown/ Lexington KY > > Jeff York > KR-2 Flying > N839BG > Home page http//:web.qx.net/jeffyork40/ > My KR-2 http://web.qx.net/jeffyork40/Airplane/ to see my KR-2 > Email jeffyork40@qx.net > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark Jones" > To: "KRnet" > Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 9:57 AM > Subject: RE: KR> Nose Gear question > > >> Jeff, >> It sounds as if you are referring to the Diehl nose gear which is >> what I > have. I have never had an issue with shimmy on mine. I have rotated at > speeds as high as 75 mph and landed as high as 85 mph all with no > shimmy. The spring on mine does not contact the centering bolt when > the gear is lined up straight. There is (guessing) a 1/8" space on > each side of the bolt between it and the spring. This allows for some > free castering before contact with the spring. The purpose of the > spring is to help align the nose > wheel for landing. You mentioned the centering bolt being bent and I think > you had to do that prior to your shimmy. With the stops on the nose gear, > I > just don't see how it could bend while taxiing. I can turn my plane either > direction to it's limits and it will not bend the bolt. When you begin > your > take off roll, apply enough up elevator to relieve most of the weight off > the nose wheel without taking it off the pavement. Once you establish > enough > speed to control the plane with rudder, gently raise the nose off the > pavement and wait for the plane to fly itself off the runway. Upon landing > and after the mains touch down, keep the nose up as long as possible until > it settles on it's on onto the runway and continue to apply up elevator as > you slow down. One thing to note is that with the nose gear, the plane > will > stay on the runway and not float in ground effect once the mains touch > down. > It will bounce on a hard landing as will any airplane. >> >> Mark Jones (N886MJ) >> Wales, WI >> Visit my web site: http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj >> Email: flykr2s@wi.rr.com >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On >> Behalf Of jeffyork40@qx.net >> Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 8:31 AM >> To: KRnet >> Subject: KR> Nose Gear question >> >> >> OK, So I may not supply quite enough info for a complete evaluation >> but, >> I > am going to try and get your alls advise. >> >> Yesterday when I went to rotate to take off, just at or before the >> nose > gear lifted, I felt a pretty significant shimmy in the nose gear. The > nose came up and the airplane lifted off. I decided to pull the power > and set back down. I pulled the power, let the plane sit back down and > upon the nose gear touch down, the shimmy came back but much worse. I > was actually wondering if it was the nose wheel or something > significantly out of balance > with the engine. >> I never really looked at the air speed indicator but I looked at the >> tach > and noticed that I still had 2200 RPM and was having a difficult time > getting the RPM's to come down. I have the vernier ( screw in and out > ) type throttle so I began back screwing the throttle. Everything > finally slowed down and I taxied off and back to my hanger. >> >> Upon inspection of the nose wheel it appears that the bolt that >> appears >> to > hold the little coil spring posts centered, has bent. Or maybe it was > bent before I started. I also want to point out that the free > castering nose wheel self centers when you lift up on the front end, a > test I was told indicates that you have the right tension and such on > the nose wheel. In testing a couple of them at the gathering, I > noticed they did not self center and those owners indicated they had > no shimmy issues. By the way that information was not meant as any > criticism of anyone else's KR. I just wanted to compare my nose gear > adjustment to others while there. >> >> Here is my question. Did I let the nose gear touch down with to much >> speed > thus precipitating the shimmy? Did I do a poor preflight and this > centering > bolt was already bent ( Slightly, spring still looks to still be > contained ) > ? >> >> Is it possible that I let the plane stay planted to long and had to >> mush > speed before I pulled the nose wheel come up? Thus precipitated the > whole thing. Maybe I need to look at the nose gear at the point of the > engine mount / fire wall? >> >> Your thoughts experiences? >> >> Jeff York >> KR-2 Flying >> N839BG >> Home page http//:web.qx.net/jeffyork40/ >> My KR-2 http://web.qx.net/jeffyork40/Airplane/ to see my KR-2 >> Email jeffyork40@qx.net >> _______________________________________ >> Search the KRnet Archives at >> http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net >> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html >> >> _______________________________________ >> Search the KRnet Archives at >> http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net >> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html >> > > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 13:04:16 -0400 From: Subject: Re: KR> Nose Gear question To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <0b6e01c5bd3c$3d2db420$6864a8c0@server> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" That is a good point. When was the last time I checked tire pressure? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Jones" To: "KRnet" Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 11:59 AM Subject: RE: KR> Nose Gear question > Good point. I run 40 psi in my tires. > > Mark Jones (N886MJ) > Wales, WI > Visit my web site: http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj > Email: flykr2s@wi.rr.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On > Behalf Of L. D. Mueller > Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 10:52 AM > To: KRnet > Subject: Re: KR> Nose Gear question > > > You know that sometimes tire pressure will affect nose wheel shimmy. I > hadn't seen that listed anywhere in reference to the shimmy issue. > > Newbee KR project owner . . . > > L. D. Mueller > 521 North Madison Street > Cuba City, WI 53807 > 608-744-3333 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "KRnet" > Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 9:58 AM > Subject: Re: KR> Nose Gear question > > > > Yes, It is the Diehl. Yes there is a gap space between the on each > > side of > > the bolt between it and the spring. NOt sure how the bolt would have > > gotten bent. the bend is ever so slight. May be moot to the subject. > > I am sure I was not doing 75 when I pulled off and not as high as 85 when > > I > > touched back down so it helps to hear that you have been able to do > > so without this issue. By the way, this is the first time my plane > > has done this. I also appreciate the info on your take off on your > > methods. This is why I > > was hoping to catch a ride with someone at the gathering. Wanted to > > get more info and feel from those flying, espesially with the same > > configuration as > > mine. > > I think I need to look closely at the nose gear back at the fire > > wall engine mount side. > > > > Anybody out there near Georgetown/ Lexington KY > > > > Jeff York > > KR-2 Flying > > N839BG > > Home page http//:web.qx.net/jeffyork40/ > > My KR-2 http://web.qx.net/jeffyork40/Airplane/ to see my KR-2 > > Email jeffyork40@qx.net > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Mark Jones" > > To: "KRnet" > > Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 9:57 AM > > Subject: RE: KR> Nose Gear question > > > > > >> Jeff, > >> It sounds as if you are referring to the Diehl nose gear which is > >> what I > > have. I have never had an issue with shimmy on mine. I have rotated > > at speeds as high as 75 mph and landed as high as 85 mph all with no shimmy. > > The spring on mine does not contact the centering bolt when the gear > > is lined up straight. There is (guessing) a 1/8" space on each side > > of the bolt between it and the spring. This allows for some free > > castering before contact with the spring. The purpose of the spring > > is to help align the nose > > wheel for landing. You mentioned the centering bolt being bent and I think > > you had to do that prior to your shimmy. With the stops on the nose gear, > > I > > just don't see how it could bend while taxiing. I can turn my plane either > > direction to it's limits and it will not bend the bolt. When you > > begin your take off roll, apply enough up elevator to relieve most > > of the weight off > > the nose wheel without taking it off the pavement. Once you > > establish enough speed to control the plane with rudder, gently > > raise the nose off the pavement and wait for the plane to fly itself > > off the runway. Upon landing > > and after the mains touch down, keep the nose up as long as possible until > > it settles on it's on onto the runway and continue to apply up > > elevator as > > you slow down. One thing to note is that with the nose gear, the > > plane will stay on the runway and not float in ground effect once > > the mains touch down. > > It will bounce on a hard landing as will any airplane. > >> > >> Mark Jones (N886MJ) > >> Wales, WI > >> Visit my web site: http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj > >> Email: flykr2s@wi.rr.com > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On > >> Behalf Of jeffyork40@qx.net > >> Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 8:31 AM > >> To: KRnet > >> Subject: KR> Nose Gear question > >> > >> > >> OK, So I may not supply quite enough info for a complete evaluation but, > >> I > > am going to try and get your alls advise. > >> > >> Yesterday when I went to rotate to take off, just at or before the > >> nose > > gear lifted, I felt a pretty significant shimmy in the nose gear. > > The nose > > came up and the airplane lifted off. I decided to pull the power and > > set back down. I pulled the power, let the plane sit back down and > > upon the nose gear touch down, the shimmy came back but much worse. > > I was actually wondering if it was the nose wheel or something > > significantly out of balance > > with the engine. > >> I never really looked at the air speed indicator but I looked at > >> the tach > > and noticed that I still had 2200 RPM and was having a difficult > > time getting the RPM's to come down. I have the vernier ( screw in > > and out ) type throttle so I began back screwing the throttle. > > Everything finally slowed > > down and I taxied off and back to my hanger. > >> > >> Upon inspection of the nose wheel it appears that the bolt that > >> appears to > > hold the little coil spring posts centered, has bent. Or maybe it > > was bent > > before I started. I also want to point out that the free castering > > nose wheel self centers when you lift up on the front end, a test I > > was told indicates that you have the right tension and such on the > > nose wheel. In testing a couple of them at the gathering, I noticed > > they did not self center and those owners indicated they had no > > shimmy issues. By the way that information was not meant as any > > criticism of anyone else's KR. I just wanted to compare my nose gear > > adjustment to others while there. > >> > >> Here is my question. Did I let the nose gear touch down with to > >> much speed > > thus precipitating the shimmy? Did I do a poor preflight and this > > centering bolt was already bent ( Slightly, spring still looks to > > still be contained ) > > ? > >> > >> Is it possible that I let the plane stay planted to long and had to mush > > speed before I pulled the nose wheel come up? Thus precipitated the whole > > thing. Maybe I need to look at the nose gear at the point of the > > engine mount / fire wall? > >> > >> Your thoughts experiences? > >> > >> Jeff York > >> KR-2 Flying > >> N839BG > >> Home page http//:web.qx.net/jeffyork40/ > >> My KR-2 http://web.qx.net/jeffyork40/Airplane/ to see my KR-2 > >> Email jeffyork40@qx.net > >> _______________________________________ > >> Search the KRnet Archives at > >> http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > >> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > >> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > >> > >> _______________________________________ > >> Search the KRnet Archives at > >> http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > >> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > >> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > >> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________ > > Search the KRnet Archives at > > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > > > > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 370 *************************************** ================================== ABC Amber Outlook Converter v4.20 Trial version ==================================