From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net To: John Bouyea Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 420 Date: 10/20/2005 7:28:22 PM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Re:> first flight (Ron Smith) 2. R?f. : RE: KR> Engine Ads (Serge VIDAL) 3. Re: first flight (Phil Matheson) 4. Re: R?f. :Diesel Engine / Diamond Aircraft (Phil Matheson) 5. Re: R?f. : Diesel Engines/Diamond Aircraft (Phil Matheson) 6. FlyCorvair update (Oscar Zuniga) 7. Risk assesment (Ron Smith) 8. R?f. : KR> Risk assesment (Serge VIDAL) 9. Re: Risk assesment (Cris.) 10. Re: Risk assesment (wilder_jeff Wilder) 11. BRS parachutes (Shawn and Laura) 12. RE: Risk assesment (Mark Jones) 13. RE: BRS parachutes (wilder_jeff Wilder) 14. Re: Risk assesment (VIRGIL N SALISBURY) 15. Re: Risk assesment (Barry Kruyssen) 16. Re: Risk assesment (Michael) 17. BRS (Dan Heath) 18. On the BRS (Ron Smith) 19. Re: Risk assesment (Orma) 20. control cables/rudder springs (Oscar Zuniga) 21. another day, another flight or two... (Mark Langford) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 21:57:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Ron Smith Subject: Re: KR> Re:> first flight To: KRnet Message-ID: <20051020045739.13351.qmail@web81708.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Congratulations Joe! Way to go! Got pics ? Ron Smith Kr2ssxl Cypress Ca U.S.A. mercedesmann@yahoo.com http://ronsmith.myphotoalbum.com/albums.php ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 11:14:10 +0200 From: Serge VIDAL Subject: R?f. : RE: KR> Engine Ads To: KRnet Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" This is my pet subject, and I agree 100%. But modern solutions can be certified too. Here in Europe, with fuel cost, noise and pollution being the main drivers, the new fashion is turbo-diesel (and the same is true for cars). These engines burn Jet A-1 or regular Diesel fuel. There are two certified designs. One is made by Thielert, in Germany, and is a conversion of Mercedes engines. Range starts at 135 hp. The second design is a purpose-built flat six, made by SMA, in France. So far, the successful one is the Thielert. It is cheaper (since the block comes from mass production), and better (it uses the latest Common Rail technology). It powers the full Diamond Aircraft range, and STCs are available for many older aircraft designs. Serge Vidal KR2 "Kilimanjaro Cloud" Paris, France "Stephen Teate" Envoyé par : krnet-bounces@mylist.net 2005-10-18 20:30 Veuillez répondre à KRnet Remis le : 2005-10-18 20:24 Pour : "KRnet" cc : (ccc : Serge VIDAL/DNSA/SAGEM) Objet : RE: KR> Engine Ads Hello again everyone, Some very interesting points being made on this discussion. Ask ten folks about engines and you will get fifteen different responses! I fully admit my negativity towards "certified" engines and my appreciation of "alternative engines". However, since I was a general aviation A&P until June of this last year I do feel I am entitled. Now back to engines. The point was made earlier that you shouldn't discount a design just because it is old. This is absolutely true. Automotive power plants are perfect examples of this. If I go out and buy the most inexpensive car today I will get a modern, computer controlled (ignition, timing, fuel ratio), fuel injected, liquid cooled power plant. If I buy the latest "certified" powered aircraft I get two magnetos for an ignition source, no timing control, two manual handles to control fuel/air mixture and if I am lucky enough to be able to afford the fuel injection I will have to go to another manufacturer (GAMI) to get optimum performance. Fortunately, FADEC is coming and it will eventually get here, but until then look to the automotive world for advanced or modern features and if possible, consider incorporating them in your design. Stephen steate@compositecooling.com ---Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net] On Behalf Of Scott William Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 9:48 AM To: KRnet Subject: RE: KR> Engine Ads --- Stephen Teate wrote: >> > Hello all! As this is my first post please excuse > any procedural > failings on my part. Let's talk engines. Several > models of Subaru > engines are interference engines. For those who > don't know what that > means, it is where the valve travel and piston > travel overlap. Obviously > a bad thing. Like I said, some models of Subaru > engines are design this > way. Mine is not. It is a 4 cylinder > turbocharged/intercooled > fuel-injected EA-82. Here is a list of the newest powerplants by Subaru.... 1.8 used in Impreza - not interference 3.3 used in SVX - interference 3.0 6cyl in newer OB - interference 2.0 turbo in WRX - interference all 2.5 DOHC and SOHC (96-present) - interference all 2.2 - not interference > As for other engines, if you want to use an air > cooled engine designed > in the 30's and who's parts will require a second > mortgage, or one that > was designed in the late 50's and hasn't been in > production for 35 to 40 > years, That's a really interesting way to introduce yourself....by printing negative propaganda (read: your opinion) about widely used and reliable aircraft engines. The small block chevy came out of the 50's....does this mean that GM shouldn't be using it in cars built now? Reliable design, history of good data.....stop building them? > or use a modern liquid cooled engine with > it's added weight and > perceived complexity, then do it. Bwahahahahahaha!!!! So tell me Stephen, what is "modern" about an EA-82? It was produced in the early eighties (20 years ago) and was a derivative of an engine produced in the early 70's that can trace it's design back to the 60's. The EA-82 was a notorious rod-thrower. Ask anyone who used to own a Subaru Brat with the EA81. > The point is there > are issues with > whatever engine you choose. You are correct, but you did not have to make negative comments about all air-cooled aircraft engines to make your point. As experimental aircraft builders, we will all choose a powerplant that tickles our fancy, some even blazing new trails with powerplants never tried before. But to use the old argument that certified engines are dinosaurs......People will have a hard time taking you seriously. Scott __________________________________ Yahoo! Music Unlimited Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/ _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 20:08:36 +1000 From: "Phil Matheson" Subject: Re: KR> first flight To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <000f01c5d55e$3e8edf80$6aa6443d@Office> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Joe. Great reading. Now they won't be able to get the smile off your face. Condrats Phil Matheson mathesonp@dodo.com.au VH-PKR ( Phil's KR) 61 3 58833588 Australia.( Down Under) See My KR2 Building Web Page at: http://mywebpage.netscape.com/flyingkrphil/VHPKR.html See our VW Engines and Home built web page at http://www.vw-engines.com/ www.homebuilt-aviation.com/ http://corvair.vw-engines.com/ ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 20:28:38 +1000 From: "Phil Matheson" Subject: KR> Re: R?f. :Diesel Engine / Diamond Aircraft To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <003001c5d561$097f5150$6aa6443d@Office> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Surge. Diamond Aircraft sent out multi page info booklet with a copy of Aviation Trader, this lists all sales for all types of aircraft in Australia, good reading. I see the also make a twin engine. http://www.diamondair.com/indexFlash.htm How is the Kr coming along, I have my RG2000 bolted in and trying to make up a cowl, regards Phil Phil Matheson mathesonp@dodo.com.au VH-PKR ( Phil's KR) 61 3 58833588 Australia.( Down Under) See My KR2 Building Web Page at: http://mywebpage.netscape.com/flyingkrphil/VHPKR.html See our VW Engines and Home built web page at http://www.vw-engines.com/ www.homebuilt-aviation.com/ http://corvair.vw-engines.com/ ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 20:33:15 +1000 From: "Phil Matheson" Subject: KR> Re: R?f. : Diesel Engines/Diamond Aircraft To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <003c01c5d562$33b023e0$6aa6443d@Office> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Sorry all hit the wrong key, only meant to send to Serge Phil Matheson mathesonp@dodo.com.au VH-PKR ( Phil's KR) 61 3 58833588 Australia.( Down Under) See My KR2 Building Web Page at: http://mywebpage.netscape.com/flyingkrphil/VHPKR.html See our VW Engines and Home built web page at http://www.vw-engines.com/ www.homebuilt-aviation.com/ http://corvair.vw-engines.com/ ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 07:24:43 -0500 From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR> FlyCorvair update To: krnet@mylist.net, pietenpol-list@matronics.com, corvaircraft@mylist.net Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed There is an update on William Wynne's hangar page, at http://www.flycorvair.com/hangar.html . Included are some great details of Dave "The Bear" Vargesko's Wagabond project as well as a tribute to Steve "Fixer" Jones. Also details of the upcoming "Corvair College" in November. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 10:19:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Ron Smith Subject: KR> Risk assesment To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20051020171946.15846.qmail@web81701.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 The death of Steve Jones has me thinking hard. When I look at how many deaths have occured in experimental aircraft and compare that to the number of experimental aircraft that have been completed and flown, it seems to me that our "hobby" is quite risky. I'm ok with that. Also I factor in that guys like Steve Jones are very intelligent folks, meticulous, and thoughtful. I wonder why we build these small planes without BRS devices. That 3 thousand dollars seem to me to be very cheap insurance. Now I know alot of guys will come out of the wood works and say that "as long as you get the nose down, and fly the plane, etc etc" I'm sure Steve knew to do all those things. He is gone. Am I all wrong in my thinking? ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 19:28:09 +0200 From: Serge VIDAL Subject: R?f. : KR> Risk assesment To: KRnet Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I ain't a nay sayer. I've toyed with the idea myself. A serious difficulty is weight and CG. Because of its weight and speed, a KR2 would require a big and heavy BRS. Has anybody bit the bullet yet? Serge Vidal KR2 "Kilimanjaro Cloud" Paris, France Ron Smith Envoyé par : krnet-bounces+serge.vidal=sagem.com@mylist.net 2005-10-20 19:19 Veuillez répondre à KRnet Remis le : 2005-10-20 19:20 Pour : krnet@mylist.net cc : (ccc : Serge VIDAL/DNSA/SAGEM) Objet : KR> Risk assesment The death of Steve Jones has me thinking hard. When I look at how many deaths have occured in experimental aircraft and compare that to the number of experimental aircraft that have been completed and flown, it seems to me that our "hobby" is quite risky. I'm ok with that. Also I factor in that guys like Steve Jones are very intelligent folks, meticulous, and thoughtful. I wonder why we build these small planes without BRS devices. That 3 thousand dollars seem to me to be very cheap insurance. Now I know alot of guys will come out of the wood works and say that "as long as you get the nose down, and fly the plane, etc etc" I'm sure Steve knew to do all those things. He is gone. Am I all wrong in my thinking? _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 19:37:19 +0200 From: "Cris." Subject: Re: KR> Risk assesment To: KRnet Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I think you are mostly right, although BRS devices are heavily discussed, here, too. I wander if Steve could have survived with one of those. Sufficient altitude? If a plane spins when it's too low, maybe you can't. I don't know... Anyway, 3 k$ is VERY cheap. I'm afraid I could spend 5 times that, in Europe. C. 2005/10/20, Ron Smith : > > The death of Steve Jones has me thinking hard. When I look at how many > deaths have occured in experimental aircraft and compare that to the > number of experimental aircraft that have been completed and flown, it > seems to me that our "hobby" is quite risky. > > I'm ok with that. > > Also I factor in that guys like Steve Jones are very intelligent > folks, meticulous, and thoughtful. > > > I wonder why we build these small planes without BRS devices. That 3 > thousand dollars seem to me to be very cheap insurance. > > Now I know alot of guys will come out of the wood works and say that > "as long as you get the nose down, and fly the plane, etc etc" > > I'm sure Steve knew to do all those things. He is gone. > > > Am I all wrong in my thinking? _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > -- Land the airplane, rubber side down, main wheels first. ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 12:43:10 -0600 From: "wilder_jeff Wilder" Subject: Re: KR> Risk assesment To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed does anyone have a link to the BRS site? -Jeff Wilder CISSP,CCE,C/EH -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GIT/CM/CS/O d- s:+ a C+++ UH++ P L++ E- w-- N+++ o-- K- w O- M-- V-- PS+ PE- Y++ PGP++ t+ 5- X-- R* tv b++ DI++ D++ G e* h--- r- y+++* ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ >From: "Cris." >Reply-To: KRnet >To: KRnet >Subject: Re: KR> Risk assesment >Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 19:37:19 +0200 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from lizard.esosoft.net ([38.118.200.18]) by >mc1-f9.hotmail.com >with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Thu, 20 Oct 2005 10:37:45 -0700 >Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lizard.esosoft.net)by >lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 4.43)id 1ESeMG-0005vd-Hf; Thu, 20 Oct >2005 10:37:40 -0700 >Received: from zproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.162.198])by lizard.esosoft.net >with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ESeLw-0005vA-OZfor krnet@mylist.net; Thu, 20 Oct >2005 10:37:20 -0700 >Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 16so273656nzpfor >; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 10:37:20 -0700 (PDT) >Received: by 10.36.86.5 with SMTP id j5mr2082344nzb;Thu, 20 Oct 2005 >10:37:20 -0700 (PDT) >Received: by 10.36.90.5 with HTTP; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 10:37:19 -0700 (PDT) >X-Message-Info: loPmDlX8LgfWcB34WmnZZz+9071bpY8qf3uRQGzTsww= >DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; >d=gmail.com;h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references;b=pM3r60JaEZ7fwpdbUarbjqTIMfypn4qURlw/CQGtmJjgV20s2lb8q80Bn5uLSlJ0ml+ynvm37GJs9gIOurVrfD8T8DnHcYCoiJLZCAUAzf7Xe+6wWR0NWpD0rLHnJp0lQ7icONC+pQSKg/zKFT/swuJoNAAyxyD3muUY84uzsJY= >References: <20051020171946.15846.qmail@web81701.mail.yahoo.com> >X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.4 >X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 >Precedence: list >List-Id: KRnet >List-Unsubscribe: >, >List-Archive: >List-Post: >List-Help: >List-Subscribe: >, >Errors-To: krnet-bounces@mylist.net >Return-Path: krnet-bounces@mylist.net >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Oct 2005 17:37:45.0492 (UTC) >FILETIME=[FB230D40:01C5D59C] > >I think you are mostly right, although BRS devices are heavily >discussed, here, too. I wander if Steve could have survived with one of >those. Sufficient altitude? If a plane spins when it's too low, maybe >you can't. I don't know... >Anyway, 3 k$ is VERY cheap. I'm afraid I could spend 5 times that, in >Europe. > >C. > >2005/10/20, Ron Smith : > > > > The death of Steve Jones has me thinking hard. When I look at how > > many deaths have occured in experimental aircraft and compare that > > to the >number > > of experimental aircraft that have been completed and flown, it > > seems to >me > > that our "hobby" is quite risky. > > > > I'm ok with that. > > > > Also I factor in that guys like Steve Jones are very intelligent > > folks, meticulous, and thoughtful. > > > > > > I wonder why we build these small planes without BRS devices. That 3 > > thousand dollars seem to me to be very cheap insurance. > > > > Now I know alot of guys will come out of the wood works and say that > > "as long as you get the nose down, and fly the plane, etc etc" > > > > I'm sure Steve knew to do all those things. He is gone. > > > > > > Am I all wrong in my thinking? > > _______________________________________ > > Search the KRnet Archives at > > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > > > >-- >Land the airplane, rubber side down, main wheels first. >_______________________________________ >Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net >please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 15:13:05 -0400 From: Shawn and Laura Subject: KR> BRS parachutes To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <4357EC41.2050604@sympatico.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed I looked into this some time ago and they have a system for the KR2. Web address is brsparachutes.com. They sent me some basic info on installing. It is three pages that I can forward if anybody wants. Email me off net Shawn ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 14:20:03 -0500 From: "Mark Jones" Subject: RE: KR> Risk assesment To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <26D1C67793459F43BF8DA235F92B1F357C45DA@tulsaexchange.tulsaokmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On Behalf Of wilder_jeff Wilder does anyone have a link to the BRS site? Here it is: http://brsparachutes.com/ Easily found by typing BRS in Google and doing a search. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI Visit my web site: http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj Email: flykr2s@wi.rr.com ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 14:04:40 -0600 From: "wilder_jeff Wilder" Subject: RE: KR> BRS parachutes To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed can yo please send it to me? thank you! -Jeff Wilder CISSP,CCE,C/EH -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GIT/CM/CS/O d- s:+ a C+++ UH++ P L++ E- w-- N+++ o-- K- w O- M-- V-- PS+ PE- Y++ PGP++ t+ 5- X-- R* tv b++ DI++ D++ G e* h--- r- y+++* ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ >From: Shawn and Laura >Reply-To: KRnet >To: krnet@mylist.net >Subject: KR> BRS parachutes >Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 15:13:05 -0400 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from lizard.esosoft.net ([38.118.200.18]) by >mc9-f17.hotmail.com >with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Thu, 20 Oct 2005 12:13:41 -0700 >Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lizard.esosoft.net)by >lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 4.43)id 1ESfrB-0009cG-F0for >wilder_jeff@msn.com; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 12:13:41 -0700 >Received: from tomts22.bellnexxia.net >([209.226.175.184]helo=tomts22-srv.bellnexxia.net)by lizard.esosoft.net >with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ESfqa-0009TC-7kfor krnet@mylist.net; Thu, 20 Oct >2005 12:13:04 -0700 >Received: from [69.158.58.214] by tomts22-srv.bellnexxia.net(InterMail >vM.5.01.06.10 201-253-122-130-110-20040306) with ESMTP >id<20051020191302.JKFI21470.tomts22-srv.bellnexxia.net@[69.158.58.214]>for >; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 15:13:02 -0400 >X-Message-Info: JGTYoYF78jEfi4G5hv6UyvSjirJ2xYqc0enxXqwEXwM= >User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) >X-Accept-Language: en-us, en >X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 >Precedence: list >List-Id: KRnet >List-Unsubscribe: >, >List-Archive: >List-Post: >List-Help: >List-Subscribe: >, >Errors-To: krnet-bounces+wilder_jeff=msn.com@mylist.net >Return-Path: krnet-bounces+wilder_jeff=msn.com@mylist.net >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Oct 2005 19:13:41.0677 (UTC) >FILETIME=[62172DD0:01C5D5AA] > >I looked into this some time ago and they have a system for the KR2. >Web address is brsparachutes.com. They sent me some basic info on >installing. It is three pages that I can forward if anybody wants. >Email me off net Shawn > > >_______________________________________ >Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net >please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 16:11:31 -0400 From: VIRGIL N SALISBURY Subject: Re: KR> Risk assesment To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20051020.161725.2756.0.virgnvs@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii No, but one of Al Hawvers friends was flying Al's plane and had a Heart attack. The landing gear bar was the only surviving part. Good plane, good pilot with an unlnown medical problem., BRS would not have helped. It is a risk, accept it, Virg On Thu, 20 Oct 2005 10:19:45 -0700 (PDT) Ron Smith writes: > The death of Steve Jones has me thinking hard. When I look at how > many deaths have occured in experimental aircraft and compare that > to the number of experimental aircraft that have been completed and > flown, it seems to me that our "hobby" is quite risky. > > I'm ok with that. > > Also I factor in that guys like Steve Jones are very intelligent > folks, meticulous, and thoughtful. > > > I wonder why we build these small planes without BRS devices. That 3 > thousand dollars seem to me to be very cheap insurance. > > Now I know alot of guys will come out of the wood works and say that > "as long as you get the nose down, and fly the plane, etc etc" > > I'm sure Steve knew to do all those things. He is gone. > > > Am I all wrong in my thinking? _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > Virgil N. Salisbury - AMSOIL www.lubedealer.com/salisbury Miami ,Fl ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 07:37:27 +1000 From: "Barry Kruyssen" Subject: Re: KR> Risk assesment To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <003701c5d5be$788a28b0$0606070a@technologyonecorp.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi All I have a Balistic Chute, see my web page to see it installed next to my OLD engine and why I mounted it there. http://www.users.bigpond.com/kr2/grs_ballistic_chute.htm. I'm away for work for then next week till Saturday 29th, I'll then take some phots with the new engine. The type BRS I have, has been used at 800ft inverted, pilot walked away with minor cuts and bruises. I think I would always try and have some type of chute on an experimental aircraft (I always wear a chute when flying a glider) regards Barry Kruyssen Cairns, Australia RAA 19-3873 kr2@BigPond.com http://www.users.bigpond.com/kr2/kr2.htm I ----- Original Message ----- From: Ron Smith To: krnet@mylist.net Sent: Friday, October 21, 2005 3:19 AM Subject: KR> Risk assesment The death of Steve Jones has me thinking hard. When I look at how many deaths have occured in experimental aircraft and compare that to the number of experimental aircraft that have been completed and flown, it seems to me that our "hobby" is quite risky. I'm ok with that. Also I factor in that guys like Steve Jones are very intelligent folks, meticulous, and thoughtful. I wonder why we build these small planes without BRS devices. That 3 thousand dollars seem to me to be very cheap insurance. Now I know alot of guys will come out of the wood works and say that "as long as you get the nose down, and fly the plane, etc etc" I'm sure Steve knew to do all those things. He is gone. Am I all wrong in my thinking? _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 14:49:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Subject: Re: KR> Risk assesment To: KRnet Message-ID: <20051020214951.28181.qmail@web80001.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 how many gs do you think the firewall will need to sustain when the chute deploys? just curious. Barry Kruyssen wrote:Hi All I have a Balistic Chute, see my web page to see it installed next to my OLD engine and why I mounted it there. http://www.users.bigpond.com/kr2/grs_ballistic_chute.htm. I'm away for work for then next week till Saturday 29th, I'll then take some phots with the new engine. The type BRS I have, has been used at 800ft inverted, pilot walked away with minor cuts and bruises. I think I would always try and have some type of chute on an experimental aircraft (I always wear a chute when flying a glider) regards Barry Kruyssen Cairns, Australia RAA 19-3873 kr2@BigPond.com http://www.users.bigpond.com/kr2/kr2.htm I ----- Original Message ----- From: Ron Smith To: krnet@mylist.net Sent: Friday, October 21, 2005 3:19 AM Subject: KR> Risk assesment The death of Steve Jones has me thinking hard. When I look at how many deaths have occured in experimental aircraft and compare that to the number of experimental aircraft that have been completed and flown, it seems to me that our "hobby" is quite risky. I'm ok with that. Also I factor in that guys like Steve Jones are very intelligent folks, meticulous, and thoughtful. I wonder why we build these small planes without BRS devices. That 3 thousand dollars seem to me to be very cheap insurance. Now I know alot of guys will come out of the wood works and say that "as long as you get the nose down, and fly the plane, etc etc" I'm sure Steve knew to do all those things. He is gone. Am I all wrong in my thinking? _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 17 Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 18:45:04 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) From: "Dan Heath" Subject: KR> BRS To: Message-ID: <43581DF0.000001.03324@DANHOMECOMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Barry, The chute takes up most of your firewall space and then some. I did not have enough space on my firewall for the stuff that I needed for normal operations. If anyone is going to contemplate using a chute, you need to first consider where you are going to put it, if it can deploy safely from that location, and if your plane can conduct normal operations with it in that location. My observation is that if you do not have an otherwise forward CG problem, then, there is really no practical place for a chute in the KR. You either need a baggage area that you can give up to the chute, or you need to design your plane around the space and weight of this chute. This is reading like a "knee jerk" reaction to an awful tragedy that may or may not have been preventable by having a chute. I think these things are a great option, but you must have the right situation or they may cause you more harm than good. See N64KR at http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on the pics See you in Mt. Vernon - 2006 - KR Gathering There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for building is over. Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC -------Original Message------- From: Barry Kruyssen Date: 10/20/05 17:38:18 I have a Balistic Chute, see my web page to see it installed next to my OLD engine and why I mounted it there. http://www.users.bigpond.com/kr2/grs_ballistic_chute.htm. ------------------------------ Message: 18 Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 16:21:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Ron Smith Subject: KR> On the BRS To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20051020232114.66993.qmail@web81701.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 I talked with a guy at BRS today. My question was did I have to buy the whole thing. He told me that I could buy the lines and the firing mechanism, without the actual chute and ballitic charge. This is good because it take years to build the Kr and the parachute has a repack interval. He sent me 3 pages of installation instructions that I have yet to read for I am at work. You can incorporate the kevlar lines in the fusalage and also install the control cable, then finish your plane, and install the "guts" when you are ready to fly. For a KR the chute would be installed behind the seat. Chutes have saved the lives of people when deployed at just a couple hundred feet. If I recall correctly the weight is about 25 lbs. ------------------------------ Message: 19 Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 20:18:44 -0400 From: "Orma" Subject: Re: KR> Risk assesment To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <01ff01c5d5d5$0139e950$0302a8c0@ROBBINS1> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Risk Management is something that each KR pilot has had to resolve before his first flight in his KR, be he the builder or a purchaser. Each time something unfortunate happens, each one of us examines his own Risk Management program, to look for holes. I had a few in mine, else my engine would not have quit on the way home from Mt Vernon. True enough Steve Jones paid the ultimate price operating his toy. However, unless I missed something, we really don't know why. There have been KR's built of $1500. and I'm sure some are close to $20K. Putting a band aid the size of a BRS on the KR is over kill for something that should not happen. Granted if another plane clips your wing and you can't possibly fly, the band aid would be great to have. Speculating that BRS.s are a great addition to the KR is beyond the concept that Ken dreamed and passed on to us. Build it light; learn to fly it well ( including stalls ); keep away from the things Ken cautioned us about; use good quality parts. Experimental aircraft were being produced at about the same rate as certified aircraft, until the advent of Light Sport. Now that may change the numbers a bit. I don't think so because manufactures want just too much for their craft. The point here is that if you look at all fatalities in the KR and even other Experimental, if you take out the human factors and pilot errors, the true numbers aren't that alarming, compared to other aircraft and way far less then other hobbies. An example of which is surfing. In the 21 years that I have been flying my KR, including engine problems three times, I never wished for a magic canopy to lower me to the ground. If I had one when I was 155 miles north of Mt Vernon, I still would not have used it. My concern is that finding a cure for Steve's fatality before we know why it happened, puts un-necessary fear into the KR family, especially those who are new. Ken's creation has been changed and modified in some very beneficial ways, and most of the changes have come slowly and not as a quick reaction. Orma Southfield, MI KR-2 N110LR 1984 See Tweety at http://www.kr-2.aviation-mechanics.com See other KR spces at www.kr-2.aviation-mechanics.com/krinfo.htm ------------------------------ Message: 20 Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 21:22:07 -0500 From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR> control cables/rudder springs To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Please forgive me if this was covered already, but I've been on vacation and may have missed all the replies to the rudder cable issue. A recent item in "To Fly" noted that at least one fatal accident has resulted from the use of rudder pedal return springs rather than a run-around "closed loop" rudder cable system. In the case mentioned, a nicopress sleeve let go on one rudder cable and the return spring on the opposite side pulled the rudder full over, resulting in an unrecoverable spin. There was just no way to pull the rudder over the other way or neutralize it against the pull of the spring on that side. Without return springs, if a cable or fitting fails, at least the rudder goes into the neutral/in-trail position. In the KR at the very least, the pilot is able to grab the rudder cables with his/her hand in the cockpit and pull the rudder over (unless the failure is from the cabin aft) so it's not the same issue as it is in planes where the rudder cables are not accessible by the pilot. The item in "To Fly" noted, as did Larry Flesner, that having the rudder pedals 'flop' without return springs or a run-around cable, has been done before and isn't anything more than a strange sight when nobody is at the controls. It's likely to be the same discussion as always: "less filling/more taste" (sorry, Cris... this refers to an American beer commercial that you Italians probably have never heard of ;o) Pick a system that appeals to you the most, and use it... but be educated as to the possibilities. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ------------------------------ Message: 21 Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 21:32:12 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: KR> another day, another flight or two... To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <001601c5d5e7$a4fb6e30$1202a8c0@1700xp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" KRNetHeads, Today I took the afternoon off to visit Troy Petteway in Columbia, TN, just 20 minutes away by KR. The mission was for him to critique my landings and tell me what I was doing wrong, since sometimes l land OK, and sometimes they're pathetic. He was at the end of the runway watching as I came in, and quickly declared that I was doing full stall landings, which were not easy or recommended in the KR. He said my tail wheel was at least a foot below the mains all the way in. Next time around, he said, come in 10 knots faster and keep the nose low all the way to the ground, and just "fly" the thing on to the ground. I did, and it was a pretty good one! It reminded me that Bill Clapp had taught me the same method, but I'd forgotten it while rebuilding my engine. I did 6 total, in gusty/bumpy air (9 knots, gusting to 16), and only one was a slight bouncer, so it was time well spent. After that, I went back to Hazel Green and did a greaser the same way. I got out and noticed the wind had died down, and there was still two hours of daylight, so I flew to Guntersville and did two more landings, then to Moontown's grass strip and did two more. From there, a buddy with a Swift joined up and I took some air-to-air shots for him in the late afternoon light. He owes me now, and has a camera just like mine, so pictures of mine flying are upcoming, I suspect. After the photo shoot, I was almost over Fayetteville, TN, so I landed there twice, and then back to Hazel Green. Grand total for the day was 3 hours, 5 airports (two of them "strange"), 14 landings, and I'm a little more skilled all the way around now. I even got to watch a beautiful sunset before my last landing (http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/051020131m.jpg ). The "new" 2700cc Corvair is still purring smoothly, and almost everybody comments on how sweet it sounds. Life is good...so come on in! 65 hours and counting... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net -------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 420 *************************************** ================================== ABC Amber Outlook Converter v4.20 Trial version ==================================