From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net To: John Bouyea Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 478 Date: 11/22/2005 3:06:56 PM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. RE: Maloof constant-speeed propeller (wilder_jeff Wilder) 2. One way or another... (Frank Ross) 3. Bad Language (Dan Heath) 4. Formation Flying ( rparker ) 5. Re: Bad Language (patrusso) 6. performance numbers? (Larry&Sallie Flesner) 7. Re: Bad Language (Jerry Mahurin) 8. Re: GPS (Orma) 9. Re: performance numbers? (Mark Langford) 10. Re: performance numbers? (phil brookman) 11. Re: R?f. : Re: KR> Civil unrest in Franc e?= (JAMES DUFF) 12. saturn engine (ken) 13. Re: saturn engine (Ron Smith) 14. Re: Geared vs direct drive Turbo & my 2 cents (jeffyork40@qx.net) 15. Re: Bad Language (billstarrs@peoplepc.com) 16. Re: Geared vs direct drive Turbo & my 2 cents (phil brookman) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 22:53:00 -0700 From: "wilder_jeff Wilder" Subject: RE: KR> Maloof constant-speeed propeller To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Yes this was the prop that came off of the Revmaster 2180 Turbo I just purchased. I liked the idea of the constant speed prop, but that is not why I went with this engine. Because I was not able to find out much about this prop, I figured they where out of business.. but I have also now come to realize that I cannot and should not use it on my bird. Does anyone have any recommendations to a constant speed prop for the revmaster? -Jeff Wilder CISSP,CCE,C/EH -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GIT/CM/CS/O d- s:+ a C+++ UH++ P L++ E- w-- N+++ o-- K- w O- M-- V-- PS+ PE- Y++ PGP++ t+ 5- X-- R* tv b++ DI++ D++ G e* h--- r- y+++* ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ >From: "Brian Kraut" >Reply-To: KRnet >To: "KRnet" >Subject: RE: KR> Maloof constant-speeed propeller >Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 18:58:46 -0500 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from lizard.esosoft.net ([38.118.200.18]) by >MC6-F38.hotmail.com >with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Mon, 21 Nov 2005 15:59:22 -0800 >Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lizard.esosoft.net)by >lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 4.43)id 1EeLZA-000GZy-Rf; Mon, 21 Nov >2005 15:59:20 -0800 >Received: from mail.engalt.com ([65.77.234.50])by lizard.esosoft.net with >esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EeLYw-000GZM-Scfor krnet@mylist.net; Mon, 21 Nov 2005 >15:59:07 -0800 >Received: from bknotebook [70.10.203.214] by mail.engalt.com(SMTPD32-8.15) >id A1186A0098; Mon, 21 Nov 2005 19:06:48 -0500 >X-Message-Info: TiNwL5K19MGC9bx6cn/400MfXnp1knBCXCXEwSDm0/Q= >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) >X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 >X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 >Precedence: list >List-Id: KRnet >List-Unsubscribe: >, >List-Archive: >List-Post: >List-Help: >List-Subscribe: >, >Errors-To: krnet-bounces@mylist.net >Return-Path: krnet-bounces@mylist.net >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Nov 2005 23:59:23.0820 (UTC) >FILETIME=[98D29EC0:01C5EEF7] > >I assume that you are referring to a Revmaster VW engine. Revmaster >recommended removing the Maloof and replacing it with a wood fixed >pitch prop. Bill said they threw blades, but I heard that they broke >cranks. Either way, they were bad news. Call Joe at Revmaster for the >best information. > >Brian Kraut >Engineering Alternatives, Inc. >www.engalt.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: krnet-bounces+brian.kraut=engalt.com@mylist.net >[mailto:krnet-bounces+brian.kraut=engalt.com@mylist.net]On Behalf Of >wilder_jeff Wilder >Sent: Monday, November 21, 2005 5:20 PM >To: krnet@mylist.net >Subject: KR> Maloof constant-speeed propeller > > >The engine I purchased has a Maloof constant-speeed propeller... does >anyone >know if they are still in business... and if so.. the contact for them. I >was unable to locate anything on Google for them. > >Also, does anyone know the history of these propellers? > >-Jeff > > > >_______________________________________ >Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net >please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > >_______________________________________ >Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net >please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 22:01:38 -0800 (PST) From: Frank Ross Subject: KR> One way or another... To: KRnet Message-ID: <20051122060139.6784.qmail@web32005.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 --- Steelef@aol.com wrote: > ML said "I can't read the signs from 10,500 feet" > > ML, do you always fly in a westerly direction? > heh,heh,heh! Franc > S, Houston Hey, it was good enough for Columbus... Frank Ross, EAA Chapter 35, San Geronimo, TX RAF Lakenheath, Suffolk, England, UK Visit my photo album at: http://photos.yahoo.com/alamokr2 __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 05:11:07 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" Subject: KR> Bad Language To: Message-ID: <4382EEBB.00000B.01800@DANHOMECOMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" As I posted several weeks ago, being partners in this airplane, Jerry and I look out for each other. Well, after my post on Sunday, about the inspection, Jerry was quick to point out that I had used some bad language in that post and suggested that I post an apology for doing so. Please forgive me for my use of bad language and to those that I offended, I am truly sorry. See N64KR at http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on the pics See you in Mt. Vernon - 2006 - KR Gathering There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for building is OVER. Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 06:09:08 -0500 From: " rparker " Subject: KR> Formation Flying To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20051122110908.20991.qmail@server278.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sorry this isnt kr related but I couldnt bear not to share some great pictures and fun flying experience with you all. After about an 11 months of flying nothing but PIC (Passenger in Coach) I managed to get some stick time this past saturday doing formation aerobatics in a Romanian built Yak-52 for almost 4 hours. The Yak is what the russian military used to train their jet pilots. ONe of my partners in my 172 XP bought the Yak about a year ago. undoubtedly the best aerobatic plane you can buy for under $60K. I can see a big argument with my wife in the near future. I've never been inverted so many times. My camera was stuck up on the mid section canopy when my canopy section slid open. thank god for a strong 5 point harness. I had no intention of actually using the parachute I was wearing. Pics can be viewed at [LINK: http://theparkers.wwhotspots.com/] http://theparkers.wwhotspots.com Rich Parker Peterborough, NH ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 06:57:25 -0500 From: "patrusso" Subject: Re: KR> Bad Language To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <000801c5ef5b$e81e9d30$37a672d8@patrusso> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original There is a big difference between "bad language" and vulgarity. Occasionally a few raw words get by to stress a point or inject a little humor in our mails, but I would say that you have behaved like a gentleman thru-out....and for the most part, everyone has. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Heath" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 5:11 AM Subject: KR> Bad Language > As I posted several weeks ago, being partners in this airplane, Jerry > and > I > look out for each other. Well, after my post on Sunday, about the > inspection, Jerry was quick to point out that I had used some bad language > in that post and suggested that I post an apology for doing so. > > Please forgive me for my use of bad language and to those that I > offended, > I > am truly sorry. > > See N64KR at http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on the pics See you in > Mt. Vernon - 2006 - KR Gathering There is a time for building and a > time for FLYING and the time for building > is OVER. > Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 06:39:59 -0600 From: Larry&Sallie Flesner Subject: KR> performance numbers? To: KRnet Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.0.20051122062945.036fd578@verizon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed > >58" x 64 Sterba prop > The numbers: >normal climb-90 mph indicated-- 1200'/min >best angle climb-- 80 mph -- 1500'/min >75%power cruise -- 2800 rpm-- 145mph >WOT--3150 rpm--170mph >cruse climb-- 2800 rpm--700'/m >Joe Horton ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Joe, Are your climb numbers measured or indicated on a VSI ? The reason I ask is that you Corvair fliers seem to get better climb performance than my 0-200. I'm talking anywhere from 200 to 700 feet. I'm running a 60X64 Sterba prop and I'll get 800 fpm climb max but I still get 170mph the same as you in cruise at 2650 rpm. I know I'm not getting the hp out of my engine on climbout (2350 - 2400 rpm) but a 50% better climb rate is hard to fathom. You Corvair fliers are all running the new wing , I think, and I'm running a stock KR wing but the numbers difference is hard for me to believe. Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 08:10:23 -0500 From: Jerry Mahurin Subject: Re: KR> Bad Language To: KRnet Message-ID: <3812d7480511220510u2da3f7cfp630fc8b456456f28@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 THANX Dan for responding to the wishes of your old Geezer building partner who thinks he was just looking out for his dear personal friend............ (....is that sentence structure complex enough...??) Keep on keeping on, On 11/22/05, Dan Heath wrote: > > As I posted several weeks ago, being partners in this airplane, Jerry and > I > look out for each other. Well, after my post on Sunday, about the > inspection, Jerry was quick to point out that I had used some bad language > in that post and suggested that I post an apology for doing so. > > Please forgive me for my use of bad language and to those that I offended, > I > am truly sorry. > > See N64KR at http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on the pics > See you in Mt. Vernon - 2006 - KR Gathering > There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for > building > is OVER. > Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > -- Jerry Mahurin - aka - KRJerry Lugoff, SC 29078 ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 08:16:59 -0500 From: "Orma" Subject: Re: KR> GPS To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <010401c5ef67$06b9b170$0302a8c0@ROBBINS1> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original I always fly cross country with my knee board strapped on and my sectional neatly folded and attached along with a pencil or pen. Although possible, it is not likely that the engine and the battery will both die at the same time. Especially in the case of the GPS, I always leave home with a new set of dry cells in the box and in the unit just in case. If all else fails I would just use the training I received to look for a suitable place to park. Orma Southfield, MI KR-2 N110LR 1984 See Tweety at http://www.kr-2.aviation-mechanics.com See other KR spces at www.kr-2.aviation-mechanics.com/krinfo.htm ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 07:20:51 -0600 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> performance numbers? To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <008e01c5ef67$8fa21040$d004a58c@net.tbe.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Larry Flesner wrote: >The reason I ask is that you Corvair fliers seem to get better climb performance than my 0-200. < I've been using a stopwatch lately to time my climbs, and I've been getting an average of almost 1000'/min with full fuel, and that's an average from ground (700') to 10,000' or so. And I don't have gap seals yet. I'm not sure how much gap seals will do for me, since my ailerons and flaps are pretty tightly gapped, but for Troy (who used the wide open wedge design from the plans for his ailerons) seals made a huge improvement. Speaking of wings, I changed something last night that should make a difference in my aileron feel. I have a "heavy left wing", caused by the fact that I'm sitting on the left side, mostly, and maybe also because I have more cusp underneath the left aileron than the right (none). I had stuck some balsa RC model "trailing edge" wedges under the right aileron to jack it up during flight. That wasn't very smart, in retrospect, because I was now forcing BOTH ailerons up. Last night I removed the wedges from the bottom of the right aileron and added an aluminum tab to the top of the left aileron, so now I'm forcing the left aileron down, rather the right aileron up. This ought to lessen control forces a little, and remove some unnecessary force from the aileron control system. I also finished up the cabin heat muff and valve, so I should have cabin heat now (and yes, I also installed a CO detector). My Terra 760D radio should be back today, with a clean bill of health. Nothing wrong with it after all. I checked all the wiring last night and there's nothing funny there either. My guess is that an aluminum chip got in there and shorted across a chip's legs and created a sort of "brown out". Unlikely, you say? The day before I flew it to Daytona Beach, I drilled 4 holes in my panel to mount the big GPS remote display. There's a little 1/4" hole for sidetone adjustment located about 4" from the holes I drilled, right in the top of the radio. The drill would have funneled the chips right over that hole. I blew the thing out before I shipped off to the shop to have it repaired (suspecting something like that), but neglected to check it to see if it worked after that. Duhhhhhhhh.. Looks like daughter Claire will get her first KR ride Thursday, to a family reuninon in South Alabama. The weather's supposed to be pretty decent. 30 mph gusts today though... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 14:41:19 -0000 From: "phil brookman" Subject: Re: KR> performance numbers? To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <005d01c5ef72$cd232570$73a51352@philljl2re6t9i> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 speaking of co sensors i have been told by a gas engineer that those liitle spots that turn a different colour are not so good they sem to lag behind what is going on some years back had a nasty escape with co soem tiny gaps underneath the wing -meant even though exhaust was outletting aft of those gaps that co managed to get in went nearly unconsious p ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Langford" To: "KRnet" Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 1:20 PM Subject: Re: KR> performance numbers? > Larry Flesner wrote: > > >The reason I ask is that you Corvair fliers seem to get > better climb performance than my 0-200. < > > I've been using a stopwatch lately to time my climbs, and I've been getting > an average of almost 1000'/min with full fuel, and that's an average from > ground (700') to 10,000' or so. And I don't have gap seals yet. I'm not > sure how much gap seals will do for me, since my ailerons and flaps are > pretty tightly gapped, but for Troy (who used the wide open wedge design > from the plans for his ailerons) seals made a huge improvement. > > Speaking of wings, I changed something last night that should make a > difference in my aileron feel. I have a "heavy left wing", caused by the > fact that I'm sitting on the left side, mostly, and maybe also because I > have more cusp underneath the left aileron than the right (none). I had > stuck some balsa RC model "trailing edge" wedges under the right aileron to > jack it up during flight. That wasn't very smart, in retrospect, because I > was now forcing BOTH ailerons up. Last night I removed the wedges from the > bottom of the right aileron and added an aluminum tab to the top of the left > aileron, so now I'm forcing the left aileron down, rather the right aileron > up. This ought to lessen control forces a little, and remove some > unnecessary force from the aileron control system. > > I also finished up the cabin heat muff and valve, so I should have cabin > heat now (and yes, I also installed a CO detector). My Terra 760D radio > should be back today, with a clean bill of health. Nothing wrong with it > after all. I checked all the wiring last night and there's nothing funny > there either. My guess is that an aluminum chip got in there and shorted > across a chip's legs and created a sort of "brown out". Unlikely, you say? > The day before I flew it to Daytona Beach, I drilled 4 holes in my panel to > mount the big GPS remote display. There's a little 1/4" hole for sidetone > adjustment located about 4" from the holes I drilled, right in the top of > the radio. The drill would have funneled the chips right over that hole. I > blew the thing out before I shipped off to the shop to have it repaired > (suspecting something like that), but neglected to check it to see if it > worked after that. Duhhhhhhhh.. > > Looks like daughter Claire will get her first KR ride Thursday, to a family > reuninon in South Alabama. The weather's supposed to be pretty decent. 30 > mph gusts today though... > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama > see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net > > > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.4/176 - Release Date: 20/11/2005 > > ---------------------------------------- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 24549 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Try www.SPAMfighter.com for free now! -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.4/176 - Release Date: 20/11/2005 ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 18:47:01 +0000 (GMT) From: JAMES DUFF Subject: Re: R?f. : Re: KR> Civil unrest in Franc e?= To: KRnet Message-ID: <20051122184702.92589.qmail@web86309.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 I'm fairly new to this group. Infact, this is my first post using the group email. With regards to this and also other posts I've read I'd like to offer a newcomer's opinion, and I expect it to be treated as such too. If this group used an online forum eg: www.cougarforum.co.uk of which I'm also a member I'd be all for such discussions. Such sites cost money however and KRNet uses this email group. Some of us are primarily interested in the aircraft and issues related to building and operating it (issues such as the tragic death of Steve Jones excepted) but not interested in sifting through 400 emails in our inboxes trying to identify something relevant and something that isn't. So in my personal opinion, and as a new builder who doesn't get time to access this email account often, I would prefer to keep posts on topic rather than covering issues I can read about in the news papers etc. Another topic which filled a page in my inbox was one on hypothetically building a KR using steel tube. Whilst this may be of interest to some, it definately isn't of interest to all members. I feel it must be remembered that with this being an email group, everyone receives every post whether they care or not. I must reiterate that if this were an online forum we could post off-topic issues all day and those who didn't care to read them could chose to ignore them. As it stands however, we are all hit with many emails which sometimes are not relevant and will enevitably be unwelcome to some members. With respect, Jamie Duff Aberdeen, Scotland billstarrs@peoplepc.com wrote: Serge any thing you have to say about your situation is sufficiently unique and interesting to justify sending to all of us . Thank you very much. Bill Starrs (KR1 completed) Clarkdale AZ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Serge VIDAL" To: ; "KRnet" Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 3:04 AM Subject: Réf. : Re: KR> Civil unrest in France Hi, Isaac, and welcome. 300 jumps? Hmm... puts you well ahead of me, with my 30-odd static line ones. Maybe I should try and brag about the rest of the training I got in Saint-Cyr (that's the French equivalent of West Point)? Nah! Any position has it's counter, and here is not the place! Don't you agree? ;-) Don't worry. Nobody intends to turn the KR List into a political forum. But whenever one list member happens to be in a place that makes the news (like New Orleans recently), well, news and enlightened opinions tend to be welcome. Heated debates would be promptly censored by our zealous moderator anyway, so they happen off list. Around the world, the news media have grossly exagerated the extent of this rioting, and misinterpreted the causes, too. So, I just tried to explain what really happens here, from an insider's point of view. Funny, for as long as I can emember, you're the first builder to introduce himself by ethnicity (Incidentally, I just realized made the mistake of revealing my 25% of Moroccan blood myself in that post, which will probably attract a lot of prejudice, since brown is not exactly a color in fashion!) OK, case closed my side. Back to business. What are you building? How far are you? Serge Vidal KR2 "Kilimanjaro Cloud" Paris, France isaac milton Envoyé par : krnet-bounces@mylist.net 2005-11-15 04:37 Veuillez répondre à rousedabout; Veuillez répondre à KRnet Remis le : 2005-11-15 04:37 Pour : KRnet cc : (ccc : Serge VIDAL/DNSA/SAGEM) Objet : Re: KR> Civil unrest in France Hi guys, I'm building in Boise Idaho, am African American by ethniticy, and was Army Special Forces for nearly 10 years... wounded in Panama in 89, relatively new pilot, but have taken off 300 more times than I've landed, so I feel comfortable with you guys. I enjoy the threads, it's helped me a lot, and I spend most of my evenings soaking it up. I'd appreciate, respectfully, if you leave the political opinions elsewhere, as any position has it's counter, and here is not the place. Don't you agree? Isaac Milton KR-2 ROUSEDABOUT Boise Idaho, USA --- Serge VIDAL wrote: > Hi, Phil, and all. > > Yep, I'm OK, the "civil unrest" is definitely not in > my street. Pity, > though, 'cause it would be a rare opportunity at > taking potshots at the > rioters! ;-) > > More seriously, the situation in France is quite > simple: around all large > cities, we have suburbs full of young Arabs and > Africans, whose fathers > came to France long ago when jobs were aplenty. > There are also lots of > illegal immigrants there, too. These guys probably > represent more than 10% > of the population now, although nobody knows for > sure, because the law > forbids to make statistics on an ethnic basis. > > In general, these populations failed to succeed, > despite the faboulous > help you get from the state (education is free, and > of good quality; > parents get monthly child education grants; > unemployed people get generous > pensions, and when these dry out, you get a "minimum > income" grant which > is about two thirds of minimum wages; public > transports are heavily > subsidised; and so on; the list is endless, as is > the list of taxes to > finance all that). > > These guys are simply not interested in becoming > "normal" citizens, and > blame everybody else for their failure. You don't > let them do whatever > they want? You're a racist, period! > > When France went under attack by Algerian > terrorists, each time the police > arrested or killed one, these guys would riot, in > support. For the past > ten years or so, they have celebrated on New Year's > Eve by burning cars > (about 500 a year). This time, the unrest has been > triggered by the fact > that two robbers ran away the police, hid inside an > electrical converter > post, and killed themselves. > > Make no mistake. France is not an ethnically based > nation. We believe in > equal citizenship and common values, and our model > puts the state well > above communities. Religion and race are considered > private matters, and > don't get special statuses. We have always had lots > of migrants here. Just > look at me: father was half Spanish, half Moroccan; > mother is Swiss. The > guy sitting in front of me at the office is from > Italian origin. My > assistant is from South East Asia. > > But smooth integration does not seem to work with > these guys. > > In short, France now houses a large hostile and > useless population, and no > government will have the balls to deal with the > issue, for fear of being > branded racists, or insensitive, or whatever. They > will simply dump more > money into these suburbs, and raise more taxes to > pay for it. Their > subsidized housing will probably be repainted and > overhauled for the > umptenth time, so that they can vandalize it again. > > I'm afraid this country is doomed, because we seem > not to know the > difference between being human and being stupid. > > Serge Vidal > KR2 "Kilimanjaro Cloud" > Paris, France > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to > KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at > http://www.krnet.org/info.html > __________________________________ Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. http://farechase.yahoo.com _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 14:00:09 -0500 (EST) From: "ken" Subject: KR> saturn engine To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20051122190009.544203991@mprdmxin.myway.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" thanks for the info colin i'm in the process of researching for a cusotm cam-shaft for the saturn to get my hp and torque near the same power curve i'm also looking to have the cam ground to to have peak torque and hp at a lower rpm range so there will be less wear and stess on the motor as for the electronic the comp will go inside the cockpit near the firewall but im still looking for that web site i found for the company that does the reprograming to convert auto to aircraft _______________________________________________ No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding. Make My Way your home on the Web - http://dell.myway.com ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 12:49:23 -0800 (PST) From: Ron Smith Subject: Re: KR> saturn engine To: kenragan@myway.com, KRnet Message-ID: <20051122204923.49918.qmail@web81704.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 ken wrote: thanks for the info colin i'm in the process of researching for a cusotm cam-shaft for the saturn to get my hp and torque near the same power curve i'm also looking to have the cam ground to to have peak torque and hp at a lower rpm range so there will be less wear and stess on the motor as for the electronic the comp will go inside the cockpit near the firewall but im still looking for that web site i found for the company that does the reprograming to convert auto to aircraft Ron Smith writes, Notice the numbers the corvair guys are getting? Ron Smith Kr2ssxl Cypress Ca U.S.A. mercedesmann@yahoo.com http://ronsmith.myphotoalbum.com/albums.php --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 17:35:53 -0500 From: Subject: Re: KR> Geared vs direct drive Turbo & my 2 cents To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <00a701c5efb5$2b921480$6464a8c0@server> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I love this subject and have contemplated turbo charging my 2180 for quite some time. I feel I have extensive knowledge of turbo charging systems as I have done extensive amounts of turbo and turbo engine work on automobile applications. However, and not to slight anyone here, I don't think I would ever consider taking a turbo from one application and believe I could bolt it to my VW 2180 or a Corvair engine and expect success. I cut my teeth in turbo experimenting with automobiles. I will also credit much of the knowledge I gained came from many individuals involved in the Shelby Dodge Auto Clubs. Here is what I learned. Or, I could just cut to the finish and suggest that if you want to turbo your airplane, start with a proven turbo and engine application and then make minor modifications as you need. But back to what I learned. With a turbo several things are critical to it's success. I would say that the most important is proper air fuel ratio delivery and the ability to monitor that. In an aircraft , this would be highly critical. I think more engines blow up ( turbo or normally aspirated) because they get to a lean mixture condition. Adding a turbo makes this even more of an issue. For that matter, anything that increases horsepower makes fuel delivery very important. So, fuel injection would be my choice over a carb on this subject. I would also install an air fuel meter. You would also need to deal with the great deal of increased heat that a turbo creates. Both to your oil and probably even your air fuel mixture. Cooling the air fuel mixture can be done with and intercooler. The increase in oil temps would be a challenge to your oil cooler and oil delivery system. You may also need to deal with the fact that when you shut off the engine, all that hot oil from your turbo will drain down to your engine , thus increasing oil temps after shut down. The most reliable automotive turbo's use both oil and engine coolant to keep the turbo cool. You also need a reliable way to regulate the waste gate. Or in other words you have to be able to keep the turbo from overboosting. Again, I believe you need to monitor this with a guage. If not you will never be able to keep head gaskets on your engine. You would also burn holes in the tops of your pistons, burn valves and so on and so on. Speaking of valves, my experience leads me to believe that you would need to change the exhaust valves on your engine as well , in order to deal with the increased temps of combustion. This goes back to the idea of starting with a reliable engine turbo combination. I could go on and on with the subject of turbo charging. I would also say that I think it is the cheapest and best way to get more ponies and torque out of an engine. I also would guess that there are people on this list that know 10 times more then me on turbo charging. But I qualify my information with the years I spent experimenting with turbo in automobiles and that I was able to take a 2.2 four cylinder engine of 140 horsepower and develop a reliable dyno tested 360 HP with incredible amounts of torque. But, I did this using a tried and tested engine and turbo combination. I was able to take advantage of computerized controls for fuel delivery and waste gate controls. I was able to write my own computerized fuel tables and timing curves to assure air fuel mixture at various RPM ranges. This was all done via Engine ECU and interfacing a laptop computer. And the whole system seems a little complex for a KR2. I also need to mention that I struggled with all the items mentioned above. No big deal when on the ground ( ok maybe a few towing bills and head gaskets and parts and such) but I sure wouldn't want to have those issues in the air. I would still like to turbo an engine for my KR2. I am still unsure of the best, lightest and most reliable way to do it. Maybe I will start with some Rev Master turbo parts and go from there. Jeff York KR-2 Flying N839BG Home page http://web.qx.net/jeffyork40/ My KR-2 http://web.qx.net/jeffyork40/Airplane/ to see my KR-2 Email jeffyork40@qx.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "hussein nagy" To: ; "KRnet" Sent: Monday, November 21, 2005 7:40 PM Subject: Re: KR> Geared vs direct drive > Hello, Colin, > I always enjoy you comments on subjects, I am an observer to the KRnet , I bought a KR2 Boat with retractable gear and tail dragger, I have no experience of building A/C but opinion of experienced folks count, Now let ask you , I have the wing center Old aerfoil RAF48, Do you think the new aerofoil is woth it at this stage of the built, and changing to fixed gear better than the retract fo KR2, when the new aerfoil instaaled do you think that the elevator and the rudder will be resized. would like to know your opinion, > Best regards > Nagy > Jacksinville, Florida > 904-543-8183 > > Colin Rainey wrote: Netters > This debate about best engines for experimentals, and whether to turbo, whether to Gear drive/PSRU or direct drive has been going on for a while now, and I suspect will probably continue, kind like the Ford/Chevy debate (Chevy is best, LOL ). I am NOT going to take sides of whether a builder should choose auto or aircraft engine, normally aspirated or turbo, or direct drive or PSRU. All these things are in the archives, and found in literal volumes in other writings, both Internet and books like, "Auto Engines for Experimental Airplanes" by Robert Finch, just to sight one example. There are many others. > > What all Netters, especially you new members need to take to heart is that engine selection is VERY important. Looking at certified aircraft, you will see that it it the single most important factor when considering an aircraft's present value, how many hours on the engine. Of all the expense of owning an aircraft, once it is completed, the most money you will spend will be for the engine, and its up keep/maintenance. Turbo charging is the cats meow for cheap horsepower, but just ask Orma Robbins about how this "enhancement" comes with its own unique set of problems to deal with and overcome. Also, the article sighted states that turbo charging generally adds at least 50% more power. This is out right fiction! The best that I have seen proven by dyno runs is approximately 40%, and this is with associated engine modifications, AND the use of an inter cooler, which is not mentioned in the article at all. B&M, Vortech, Banks Turbo-charging, and Paxton all report similar > values for their "bolt-on" systems. I am not saying that a turbo or supercharger cannot add 50% or more power, but that rather that bolt on systems do not give that kind of increase, and do not want builders running out and buying a turbo for their engine expecting to get a 50% increase in power and torque by just hacking the exhaust in order to add the turbo. > > The same rules hold true for direct drive vs PSRU. There are definite benefits to a PSRU, but to set one up on a 2.2 to 1 reduction, just to achieve maximum horsepower from an engine from a dyno run, and say that is best does not take into account all phases of flight for the engine, only take off. That is the only time you will use max power. This amount of reduction although it makes the max power available according to the dyno, it does not allow for a reasonable rpm for cruise. This is because the prop will be slowed to 2000 to 2100 rpm, which begins putting it below its cruise efficiency speed. Just compare certified props that are made to run in this range of rpms. They produce max thrust at near redline, and produce best cruise thrust at 75 to 80% engine power. This puts the prop at around 2300 to 2400 rpms on a 2750 redline. This puts the engine in the re drive at 5060 rpms for the 2300, and 5280 rpms for the 2400 rpms at the prop. Now your engine is running > just like the Rotax family of engines and can expect the same life, or simply 50 to 100 hour maintenance intervals with a major a max of 500 hours out. It also makes the combination "peaky", where basically you spend literally all your time at or near peak rpm. > > Robert Finch's book details a lot of engines that have been successfully used in direct drive configuration; the Buick V8, the VW family, the Corvairs, and several others mentioned in his book. In larger aircraft that have more generous weight allowances for the engine, the more complicated and heavier engines have a good appeal. BUT for our applications, in order to stay in the RECOMMENDED weight range of engines AND their output, direct drive offers the best answers, and air cooled the simplest installation. Above all, it takes research and study to decide and engine install, and talking to other actual pilots of those engines. Don't get sucked into the trap of some fancy numbers calculations and good advertising on one web page where one engine is presented as the experimental airplanes dream engine. There are a lot of "assumptions" and over generalizations made at the expense of the builder. No quick answers here. It takes years to build a KR, take enough time to > study your engine completely BEFORE spending any money. > > > Colin Rainey > brokerpilot96ta@earthlink.net > EarthLink Revolves Around You. > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > > > nagy hussein > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 14:43:11 -0700 From: Subject: Re: KR> Bad Language To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <00ac01c5efaf$615cbcb0$a3eef004@Bill> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" What was the bad language? Cesna? Beach? or one of them other *&##%*^+#** things? Bill Starrs KR1 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Heath" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 3:11 AM Subject: KR> Bad Language As I posted several weeks ago, being partners in this airplane, Jerry and I look out for each other. Well, after my post on Sunday, about the inspection, Jerry was quick to point out that I had used some bad language in that post and suggested that I post an apology for doing so. Please forgive me for my use of bad language and to those that I offended, I am truly sorry. See N64KR at http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on the pics See you in Mt. Vernon - 2006 - KR Gathering There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for building is OVER. Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 23:07:26 -0000 From: "phil brookman" Subject: Re: KR> Geared vs direct drive Turbo & my 2 cents To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <00d701c5efb9$811cbe60$73a51352@philljl2re6t9i> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 hi jeff did you upgrade from a 1835 by any chance just wondered how much extra power you gained p ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "KRnet" Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 10:35 PM Subject: Re: KR> Geared vs direct drive Turbo & my 2 cents > I love this subject and have contemplated turbo charging my 2180 for quite > some time. I feel I have extensive knowledge of turbo charging systems as I > have done extensive amounts of turbo and turbo engine work on automobile > applications. > > However, and not to slight anyone here, I don't think I would ever consider > taking a turbo from one application and believe I could bolt it to my VW > 2180 or a Corvair engine and expect success. > > I cut my teeth in turbo experimenting with automobiles. I will also credit > much of the knowledge I gained came from many individuals involved in the > Shelby Dodge Auto Clubs. Here is what I learned. Or, I could just cut to the > finish and suggest that if you want to turbo your airplane, start with a > proven turbo and engine application and then make minor modifications as you > need. But back to what I learned. > > With a turbo several things are critical to it's success. > I would say that the most important is proper air fuel ratio delivery and > the ability to monitor that. In an aircraft , this would be highly critical. > I think more engines blow up ( turbo or normally aspirated) because they get > to a lean mixture condition. Adding a turbo makes this even more of an > issue. For that matter, anything that increases horsepower makes fuel > delivery very important. So, fuel injection would be my choice over a carb > on this subject. I would also install an air fuel meter. > > You would also need to deal with the great deal of increased heat that a > turbo creates. Both to your oil and probably even your air fuel mixture. > Cooling the air fuel mixture can be done with and intercooler. The increase > in oil temps would be a challenge to your oil cooler and oil delivery > system. You may also need to deal with the fact that when you shut off the > engine, all that hot oil from your turbo will drain down to your engine , > thus increasing oil temps after shut down. The most reliable automotive > turbo's use both oil and engine coolant to keep the turbo cool. > > You also need a reliable way to regulate the waste gate. Or in other words > you have to be able to keep the turbo from overboosting. Again, I believe > you need to monitor this with a guage. If not you will never be able to keep > head gaskets on your engine. You would also burn holes in the tops of your > pistons, burn valves and so on and so on. Speaking of valves, my experience > leads me to believe that you would need to change the exhaust valves on your > engine as well , in order to deal with the increased temps of combustion. > This goes back to the idea of starting with a reliable engine turbo > combination. > > I could go on and on with the subject of turbo charging. I would also say > that I think it is the cheapest and best way to get more ponies and torque > out of an engine. I also would guess that there are people on this list that > know 10 times more then me on turbo charging. But I qualify my information > with the years I spent experimenting with turbo in automobiles and that I > was able to take a 2.2 four cylinder engine of 140 horsepower and develop a > reliable dyno tested 360 HP with incredible amounts of torque. But, I did > this using a tried and tested engine and turbo combination. I was able to > take advantage of computerized controls for fuel delivery and waste gate > controls. I was able to write my own computerized fuel tables and timing > curves to assure air fuel mixture at various RPM ranges. This was all done > via Engine ECU and interfacing a laptop computer. And the whole system seems > a little complex for a KR2. I also need to mention that I struggled with all > the items mentioned above. No big deal when on the ground ( ok maybe a few > towing bills and head gaskets and parts and such) but I sure wouldn't want > to have those issues in the air. > > I would still like to turbo an engine for my KR2. I am still unsure of the > best, lightest and most reliable way to do it. Maybe I will start with some > Rev Master turbo parts and go from there. > > Jeff York > KR-2 Flying > N839BG > Home page http://web.qx.net/jeffyork40/ > My KR-2 http://web.qx.net/jeffyork40/Airplane/ to see my KR-2 > Email jeffyork40@qx.net > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "hussein nagy" > To: ; "KRnet" > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2005 7:40 PM > Subject: Re: KR> Geared vs direct drive > > > > Hello, Colin, > > I always enjoy you comments on subjects, I am an observer to the KRnet > , I bought a KR2 Boat with retractable gear and tail dragger, I have no > experience of building A/C but opinion of experienced folks count, Now let > ask you , I have the wing center Old aerfoil RAF48, Do you think the new > aerofoil is woth it at this stage of the built, and changing to fixed gear > better than the retract fo KR2, when the new aerfoil instaaled do you think > that the elevator and the rudder will be resized. would like to know your > opinion, > > Best regards > > Nagy > > Jacksinville, Florida > > 904-543-8183 > > > > Colin Rainey wrote: Netters > > This debate about best engines for experimentals, and whether to turbo, > whether to Gear drive/PSRU or direct drive has been going on for a while > now, and I suspect will probably continue, kind like the Ford/Chevy debate > (Chevy is best, LOL ). I am NOT going to take sides of whether a builder > should choose auto or aircraft engine, normally aspirated or turbo, or > direct drive or PSRU. All these things are in the archives, and found in > literal volumes in other writings, both Internet and books like, "Auto > Engines for Experimental Airplanes" by Robert Finch, just to sight one > example. There are many others. > > > > What all Netters, especially you new members need to take to heart is > that engine selection is VERY important. Looking at certified aircraft, you > will see that it it the single most important factor when considering an > aircraft's present value, how many hours on the engine. Of all the expense > of owning an aircraft, once it is completed, the most money you will spend > will be for the engine, and its up keep/maintenance. Turbo charging is the > cats meow for cheap horsepower, but just ask Orma Robbins about how this > "enhancement" comes with its own unique set of problems to deal with and > overcome. Also, the article sighted states that turbo charging generally > adds at least 50% more power. This is out right fiction! The best that I > have seen proven by dyno runs is approximately 40%, and this is with > associated engine modifications, AND the use of an inter cooler, which is > not mentioned in the article at all. B&M, Vortech, Banks Turbo-charging, > and Paxton all report similar > > values for their "bolt-on" systems. I am not saying that a turbo or > supercharger cannot add 50% or more power, but that rather that bolt on > systems do not give that kind of increase, and do not want builders running > out and buying a turbo for their engine expecting to get a 50% increase in > power and torque by just hacking the exhaust in order to add the turbo. > > > > The same rules hold true for direct drive vs PSRU. There are definite > benefits to a PSRU, but to set one up on a 2.2 to 1 reduction, just to > achieve maximum horsepower from an engine from a dyno run, and say that is > best does not take into account all phases of flight for the engine, only > take off. That is the only time you will use max power. This amount of > reduction although it makes the max power available according to the dyno, > it does not allow for a reasonable rpm for cruise. This is because the prop > will be slowed to 2000 to 2100 rpm, which begins putting it below its > cruise efficiency speed. Just compare certified props that are made to run > in this range of rpms. They produce max thrust at near redline, and produce > best cruise thrust at 75 to 80% engine power. This puts the prop at around > 2300 to 2400 rpms on a 2750 redline. This puts the engine in the re drive > at 5060 rpms for the 2300, and 5280 rpms for the 2400 rpms at the prop. Now > your engine is running > > just like the Rotax family of engines and can expect the same life, or > simply 50 to 100 hour maintenance intervals with a major a max of 500 hours > out. It also makes the combination "peaky", where basically you spend > literally all your time at or near peak rpm. > > > > Robert Finch's book details a lot of engines that have been successfully > used in direct drive configuration; the Buick V8, the VW family, the > Corvairs, and several others mentioned in his book. In larger aircraft that > have more generous weight allowances for the engine, the more complicated > and heavier engines have a good appeal. BUT for our applications, in order > to stay in the RECOMMENDED weight range of engines AND their output, direct > drive offers the best answers, and air cooled the simplest installation. > Above all, it takes research and study to decide and engine install, and > talking to other actual pilots of those engines. Don't get sucked into the > trap of some fancy numbers calculations and good advertising on one web > page where one engine is presented as the experimental airplanes dream > engine. There are a lot of "assumptions" and over generalizations made at > the expense of the builder. No quick answers here. It takes years to build > a KR, take enough time to > > study your engine completely BEFORE spending any money. > > > > > > Colin Rainey > > brokerpilot96ta@earthlink.net > > EarthLink Revolves Around You. > > _______________________________________ > > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > > > > > > > > nagy hussein > > > > --------------------------------- > > Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. > > _______________________________________ > > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.4/176 - Release Date: 20/11/2005 > ---------------------------------------- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 24549 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Try www.SPAMfighter.com for free now! -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.4/176 - Release Date: 20/11/2005 ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 478 *************************************** ================================== ABC Amber Outlook Converter v4.20 Trial version ==================================