From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net To: John Bouyea Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 481 Date: 11/23/2005 9:00:21 PM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Prop position on C 90 (Scott William) 2. Re: Prop position on C 90 (Jeff Scott) 3. Re: performance numbers? (Jeff Scott) 4. Re: Prop position on C 90 (Scott William) 5. RE: Prop position on C 90 (Ron Freiberger) 6. Re: Stainless steel for WAF bolts (Barry Kruyssen) 7. RE: Prop position on C 90 (L. D. Mueller) 8. Omar and his 1,000 wives (Oscar Zuniga) 9. Richard's KR1 (Dan Heath) 10. Re: Stainless steel for WAF (Scott Cable) 11. Re: Omar and his 1,000 wives (Mark Jones) 12. Re: website for Richard Shirley (Mark Langford) 13. RE: Stainless steel for WAF bolts (Brian Kraut) 14. RE: performance numbers? (Brian Kraut) 15. RE: Stainless steel for WAF (albert cassar) 16. RE: Stainless steel for WAF bolts (albert cassar) 17. question for Mark Jones (Ron Smith) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 13:02:45 -0800 (PST) From: Scott William Subject: Re: KR> Prop position on C 90 To: KRnet Message-ID: <20051123210245.58872.qmail@web31509.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 --- Jeff Scott wrote: > Note that some metal props (Mostly MacCauley > Met-L-Prop) have an RPM restriction on certain > engines at certain RPMs, usually around 2150 - 2300, > due to harmonics. You might want to research your prop/engine > combination. It's my understanding that this only applies to engines with hollow cranks. I might be totalllllllllllly wrong here. Scott __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 21:07:30 GMT From: "Jeff Scott" Subject: Re: KR> Prop position on C 90 To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20051123.130739.10937.27122@webmail49.lax.untd.com> Content-Type: text/plain -- Scott William wrote: --- Jeff Scott wrote: > Note that some metal props (Mostly MacCauley > Met-L-Prop) have an RPM restriction on certain > engines at certain RPMs, usually around 2150 - 2300, > due to harmonics. You might want to research your prop/engine > combination. It's my understanding that this only applies to engines with hollow cranks. I might be totalllllllllllly wrong here. Definately not true. This restriction exists on the Franklin powered Stinsons using the MacCauley Met-L-Prop. The Franklins are a solid shaft, but the harmonics damage is usually manifested by a crack in the keyway at the flywheel end of the crankshaft (opposite end from the prop). Jeff Scott ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 21:10:04 GMT From: "Jeff Scott" Subject: Re: KR> performance numbers? To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20051123.131044.10937.27143@webmail49.lax.untd.com> Content-Type: text/plain You'll find a picture of his prop at http://www.beltedair.com/ -Jeff -- "Jeff Scott" wrote: I had dinner with the CEO of Vari-Prop at Copperstate. ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 13:38:50 -0800 (PST) From: Scott William Subject: Re: KR> Prop position on C 90 To: KRnet Message-ID: <20051123213850.67565.qmail@web31510.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 --- Jeff Scott wrote: > > Definately not true. This restriction exists on the > Franklin powered Stinsons using the MacCauley > Met-L-Prop. The Franklins are a solid shaft, but > the harmonics damage is usually manifested by a > crack in the keyway at the flywheel end of the > crankshaft (opposite end from the prop). Told ya I might be totalllllllllly wrong on this one. :-) Scott __________________________________ Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. http://farechase.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 17:03:03 -0500 From: "Ron Freiberger" Subject: RE: KR> Prop position on C 90 To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <000001c5f079$ad22b850$0202a8c0@Disorganized> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" It's my understanding that this only applies to engines with hollow cranks. I might be totalllllllllllly wrong here. Scott Yep, you are totally wrong. Ron Freiberger mail to ronandmartha@earthlink.net __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 08:11:11 +1000 From: "Barry Kruyssen" Subject: Re: KR>Stainless steel for WAF bolts To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <007201c5f07a$d0c58890$0606070a@technologyonecorp.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I would NOT use stainless steel bolts on my WAFs as it is softer than AN bolts. (in my opinion) regards Barry Kruyssen Cairns, Australia RAA 19-3873 kr2@BigPond.com http://www.users.bigpond.com/kr2/kr2.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: jodel@alphalink.com.au To: KRnet Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 12:52 AM Subject: Re: KR> performance numbers? Hi all just a ? that has probibly been answered befor in regards to the WAF. Has anyone used stanless steel in say marin grade stanless. I'm gesing that the stanless would be strong enought or would it need to be resized to give the same strenght as the 4130 steel. Albert. ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 16:25:07 -0600 From: "L. D. Mueller" Subject: RE: KR> Prop position on C 90 To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <200511232225.jANMP5Yv003925@pearl.mhtc.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I searched the archives and found nothing--but I did find the correct position in the Bingelis engine book. And one of the netters e-mailed too. The word is: set the crank at TDC, lined up with the case, and position the prop eight-o-clock and two-o-clock. We put it back on this way this afternoon, but it's too windy to see if it helped. Larry Mueller -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net] On Behalf Of Ron Freiberger Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 4:03 PM To: 'KRnet' Subject: RE: KR> Prop position on C 90 It's my understanding that this only applies to engines with hollow cranks. I might be totalllllllllllly wrong here. Scott Yep, you are totally wrong. Ron Freiberger mail to ronandmartha@earthlink.net __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 16:27:40 -0600 From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR> Omar and his 1,000 wives To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Cris. asks- >Omar? How many wives do you have? Just one... same one for 36+ years now. One really good one is all you need, I've found. More than that and all you get is trouble. And just so this won't be a totally non-KR post, I note the thread on turbocharging hasn't seemed to mention that Ken Rand's original KR-1 was turbocharged. That's how he got the speed figures that are still used in the Rand Robinson promo literature, I believe. The hottest KR-1 I've heard of, Richard Shirley's, doesn't do it with a turbo but it's still a very fast airplane with a VW Type I. Pictures of it, including engine installation, are at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/pinebluff2001/ I'm surprised that there isn't a page dedicated to this airplane on the KRNet website ;o) Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 18:16:32 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" Subject: KR> Richard's KR1 To: Message-ID: <4384F850.000003.03300@DANHOMECOMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" OZ, you are right, it has to be one of the finest KRs ever built. I understand that he has an even bigger engine in it now. I think it is an 0200. See N64KR at http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on the pics See you in Mt. Vernon - 2006 - KR Gathering There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for building is OVER. Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC -------Original Message------- Pictures of it, including engine installation, are at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/pinebluff2001/ I'm surprised that there isn't a page dedicated to this airplane on the KRNet website ;o) ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 15:21:27 -0800 (PST) From: Scott Cable Subject: Re: KR>Stainless steel for WAF To: KRnet Message-ID: <20051123232127.9847.qmail@web53012.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Albert wrote: Hi all just a question that has probably been answered before in regards to the WAF... Has anyone used stainless steel in say marine grade stainless. I'm guessing that the stainless would be strong enough or would it need to be re-sized to give the same strength as the 4130 steel. Albert. Albert & Netters, Marine grade stainless steel in generally commercial grade 304 which has a tensile strength allowable of 75KSI and a density of .286 pounds per cubic inch. 4130 has a tensile strength allowable of 180 KSI and a density .283 pounds per cubic inch. Why on earth would you want to fabricate such a critical, highly loaded part of your aircraft with a material that weighs more and isn't as strong? There is also no real practical reason to use stainless steel for this application other than for the corrosion resistance properties. But of course that has already been addressed in the 4130 WAF's by painting them before you install. If you are that concerned about corrosion resistance, then you could use CRES PH15-7Mo which has a tensile strength allowable of 190 KSI and has a density of .277 pounds per cubic inch. CRES (Corrosion REsistant Steel) PH15-7Mo of course costs significantly more, is harder to find and is a real bear to work with. But it is actually lighter than 4130... My recommendation is not to stray from plans in this area and utilize what is proven to work. If memory serves, I believe that you can purchase your WAF's directly from Rand-Robinson. And as usual, your results may vary, Scott Scott Cable Jamestown, ND s2cable1@yahoo.com --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 18:11:53 -0600 From: "Mark Jones" Subject: Re: KR> Omar and his 1,000 wives To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <002b01c5f08b$ad4c3420$6501a8c0@wi.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Did you know there is a dedicated web page to the KR-1 on EAA web site? Here is the link: http://www.airventuremuseum.org/collection/aircraft/Rand%20Robinson%20KR-1.asp#TopOfPage Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my NEW KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at www.flykr2s.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Oscar Zuniga" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 4:27 PM Subject: KR> Omar and his 1,000 wives > Cris. asks- > > >Omar? How many wives do you have? > > Just one... same one for 36+ years now. One really good one is all > you need, I've found. More than that and all you get is trouble. > > And just so this won't be a totally non-KR post, I note the thread on > turbocharging hasn't seemed to mention that Ken Rand's original KR-1 > was turbocharged. That's how he got the speed figures that are still > used in the Rand Robinson promo literature, I believe. The hottest > KR-1 I've heard > of, Richard Shirley's, doesn't do it with a turbo but it's still a > very fast > airplane with a VW Type I. Pictures of it, including engine > installation, are at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/pinebluff2001/ > > I'm surprised that there isn't a page dedicated to this airplane on > the KRNet website ;o) > > Oscar Zuniga > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 18:33:08 -0600 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> website for Richard Shirley To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <38b701c5f08e$a4af47a0$1202a8c0@1700xp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Oscar wrote: > I'm surprised that there isn't a page dedicated to this airplane on > the KRNet website ;o) You write it, and I'll post it on KRnet! I guess I figured that the details given on some of the Gathering web pages suffices, to some extent. I've thought several times that I needed to do that, along with a whole bunch of other KRs, but I haven't forced myself to take the time yet. I'll get around to that kind of thing over the winter, as well as systematically updating all of my contruction pages to reflect some new-found lessons learned. I installed cabin heat yesterday, and tried it out on the ground today (too gusty to consider flying a kite, much less an airplane). I'll bet that air is at least 300 degrees coming out of that tube! I don't think I'll be wearing long johns on my trip tomorrow... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net -------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 20:40:55 -0500 From: "Brian Kraut" Subject: RE: KR>Stainless steel for WAF bolts To: "KRnet" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I know that a lot of stainless steels will tend to snap where 4130 will bend. Definitely not something I would want to do unless I really knew what I was doing. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Barry Kruyssen Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 5:11 PM To: KRnet Subject: Re: KR>Stainless steel for WAF bolts I would NOT use stainless steel bolts on my WAFs as it is softer than AN bolts. (in my opinion) regards Barry Kruyssen Cairns, Australia RAA 19-3873 kr2@BigPond.com http://www.users.bigpond.com/kr2/kr2.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: jodel@alphalink.com.au To: KRnet Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 12:52 AM Subject: Re: KR> performance numbers? Hi all just a ? that has probibly been answered befor in regards to the WAF. Has anyone used stanless steel in say marin grade stanless. I'm gesing that the stanless would be strong enought or would it need to be resized to give the same strenght as the 4130 steel. Albert. _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 20:51:40 -0500 From: "Brian Kraut" Subject: RE: KR> performance numbers? To: "KRnet" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Someone does make one for the O-200 and there is a plugged hole in the crank for the oil controlled prop. I have a friend that is going to use one on his Midget Mustang. I will ask him what brand and how much it is. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces+brian.kraut=engalt.com@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces+brian.kraut=engalt.com@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Orma Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 7:22 AM To: KRnet Subject: Re: KR> performance numbers? I sure wish Santa could bring me a constant speed prop for Christmas. :-) Larry does anyone make one for the O-200??? Orma _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 12:57:53 +1100 From: "albert cassar" Subject: RE: KR>Stainless steel for WAF To: "KRnet" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Thank you Scott. Albert -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Scott Cable Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2005 10:21 AM To: KRnet Subject: Re: KR>Stainless steel for WAF Albert wrote: Hi all just a question that has probably been answered before in regards to the WAF... Has anyone used stainless steel in say marine grade stainless. I'm guessing that the stainless would be strong enough or would it need to be re-sized to give the same strength as the 4130 steel. Albert. Albert & Netters, Marine grade stainless steel in generally commercial grade 304 which has a tensile strength allowable of 75KSI and a density of .286 pounds per cubic inch. 4130 has a tensile strength allowable of 180 KSI and a density .283 pounds per cubic inch. Why on earth would you want to fabricate such a critical, highly loaded part of your aircraft with a material that weighs more and isn't as strong? There is also no real practical reason to use stainless steel for this application other than for the corrosion resistance properties. But of course that has already been addressed in the 4130 WAF's by painting them before you install. If you are that concerned about corrosion resistance, then you could use CRES PH15-7Mo which has a tensile strength allowable of 190 KSI and has a density of .277 pounds per cubic inch. CRES (Corrosion REsistant Steel) PH15-7Mo of course costs significantly more, is harder to find and is a real bear to work with. But it is actually lighter than 4130... My recommendation is not to stray from plans in this area and utilize what is proven to work. If memory serves, I believe that you can purchase your WAF's directly from Rand-Robinson. And as usual, your results may vary, Scott Scott Cable Jamestown, ND s2cable1@yahoo.com --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 13:07:22 +1100 From: "albert cassar" Subject: RE: KR>Stainless steel for WAF bolts To: "KRnet" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Brian Thanks for the reply . My thought was that the "timber" spa would fial befor the stanless. Albert. -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Brian Kraut Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2005 12:41 PM To: KRnet Subject: RE: KR>Stainless steel for WAF bolts I know that a lot of stainless steels will tend to snap where 4130 will bend. Definitely not something I would want to do unless I really knew what I was doing. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Barry Kruyssen Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 5:11 PM To: KRnet Subject: Re: KR>Stainless steel for WAF bolts I would NOT use stainless steel bolts on my WAFs as it is softer than AN bolts. (in my opinion) regards Barry Kruyssen Cairns, Australia RAA 19-3873 kr2@BigPond.com http://www.users.bigpond.com/kr2/kr2.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: jodel@alphalink.com.au To: KRnet Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 12:52 AM Subject: Re: KR> performance numbers? Hi all just a ? that has probibly been answered befor in regards to the WAF. Has anyone used stanless steel in say marin grade stanless. I'm gesing that the stanless would be strong enought or would it need to be resized to give the same strenght as the 4130 steel. Albert. _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 17 Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 20:55:20 -0800 (PST) From: Ron Smith Subject: KR> question for Mark Jones To: "krnet@mylist.net" Message-ID: <20051124045520.95460.qmail@web81709.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Hi Mark, You had some guys linked to your old web site, like Bob Glidden, and Joe Horton. They no longer work. Is there any way to fix those links? Ron Smith Kr2ssxl Cypress Ca U.S.A. mercedesmann@yahoo.com http://ronsmith.myphotoalbum.com/albums.php __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 481 *************************************** ================================== ABC Amber Outlook Converter v4.20 Trial version ==================================