From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net To: John Bouyea Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 509 Date: 12/12/2005 9:00:28 PM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. RE: dragonfly(?) (Steve Glover) 2. RE: dragonfly(?) (Steve Glover) 3. Ellison TBI (JIM VANCE) 4. Corvair website update (Oscar Zuniga) 5. KR-1 for sale (sixfeetsmall@alaweb.com) 6. RE: Re:Wet Runways in the winter (Wood, Sidney M.) 7. Re: performance numbers? (JIM RALEIGH) 8. Re: Prop position on C 90 (JIM RALEIGH) 9. performance numbers? (Larry&Sallie Flesner) 10. Re: performance numbers? (Larry&Sallie Flesner) 11. RE: Training and the KR (Brian Kraut) 12. prop needed (Brian Kraut) 13. RE: Re:Wet Runways in the winter (Brian Kraut) 14. Re: performance numbers? (Mark Langford) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 21:06:57 -0800 From: "Steve Glover" Subject: RE: KR> dragonfly(?) To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <004401c5fed9$e397c560$0202a8c0@IntelliSpec> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I was looking through an old trade a plane and found the DF. I don't know if it is still available. The # is 910-584-4100. Turbo Q2 with 90 TT AF&E. $9500. Steve -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net] On Behalf Of larry severson Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 2:43 PM To: KRnet Subject: KR> dragonfly(?) > >Can't find the plane. Point me there please! Larry Severson Fountain Valley, CA 92708 (714) 968-9852 larry2@socal.rr.com _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 21:09:02 -0800 From: "Steve Glover" Subject: RE: KR> dragonfly(?) To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <004501c5feda$2efbd9b0$0202a8c0@IntelliSpec> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sorry guys, that was meant direct for Larry. Steve ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 06:45:35 -0600 From: "JIM VANCE" Subject: KR> Ellison TBI To: "krnet" Message-ID: <002d01c5ff19$f2713d60$6a88f53f@Vance> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" The discussion about primers and Ellison throttle bodies almost had me convinced that I should tear into it again and add some more stuff. However, I've discovered a little trick that might work instead. The port that senses the vacuum pulses is upstream from the throttle slide and fuel injector. When the throttle is cracked open to a fast idle position, it takes quite a bit of cranking to get enough vacuum past the throttle slide to cause the vacuum port to initiate fuel flow. If the engine is cranked with the throttle about 3/4 open, the fuel delivery is almost immediate. Of course, you must be ready to pull the throttle back as soon as the engine lights. Jim Vance Vance@hbcomm.net ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 07:30:06 -0600 From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR> Corvair website update To: corvaircraft@mylist.net, krnet@mylist.net, pietenpol-list@matronics.com Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed William Wynne has updated his "at the hangar" page with more supplier info, this time on propellers and engine instrument recommendations, as well as some notes on the cost of reworking Corvair heads. The update is at http://www.flycorvair.com/hangar.html Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 07:47:31 -600 From: sixfeetsmall@alaweb.com Subject: KR> KR-1 for sale To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <439d7f73.8c4.0@alaweb.com> Still trying to sell my KR-1 project. Revmaster 2100 installed and running with 50hrs and logs. Warnke prop. All engine and flight instruments. Hyd disc brakes on retract ldg gear and sliding canopy. Asking $5000.00 I have $5000.00 invested but will refuse no reasonable offer. Andrew Lee 334-894-0094 sixfeetsmall@alaweb.com ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 15:46:33 -0500 From: "Wood, Sidney M." Subject: RE: KR> Re:Wet Runways in the winter To: "KRnet" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Freezing water and slush are not unique hazards to retract gear. Wheel pants can also collect enough freezing water, slush, etc. from the runway to lockup the wheel while you fly around. Try landing with the main gear wheels locked. Fortunately in my case, I landed on a grass strip with a tri-gear aircraft, but it was the shortest landing I have ever made. Pavement would likely have produced two or three blown tires at best. A tail wheel aircraft would have flipped easily. In that frozen wheel situation you have not a clue if that wheel will roll on landing or not until actual touchdown. Sid Wood Mechanicsville, MD USA Sidney.wood@titan.com Subject: KR> Re:Wet Runways in the winter > Just a note to tell you about a flight that i made today in my KR > that > can remind all of us about what can happen if you don,t take ALL of > the weather factors into concideration when you go flying. As a side > note i probably have one of the last krs that still have the retracts. > For those of you that made the gathering this year my KR was the one with > the full clamshell gear doors. This is all relevent to the story. Flying > a KR in the north in the winter means that you usually don,t have that > many days that you can fly without freezing to death so you take everyday > that you can get and today was such a day. The temp was in the mid 20,s > with bright sun and not too much of a cross wind at the field where i > base my plane. We had just had a large snow storm 2 days before but thr > runway ws plowed with mostly bare pavement showing. As i taxied my plane > to the active i passed over a lot of snow patches and damp spots on the > black pavement. Takeoff was normal and. i headed for a local airport > about 20 miles away. Ther was a lot of traffic at the field so i > extended my upwind leg a ways to allow for spacing. After entering > downwind i reached to lower the landing gear only to find that it was > frozen solid in the up position. Pucker factor riseing rapidly at this > point. After several min,s of trying i was begining to think that the > only option was that i was giong to have to land on the ski runway on the > belly. I tried one last dive with a sharp pullout while pulling to lower > the gear at the same time when it finally broke loose. I proceeded to > land and when i got out to look the wheel wells were full of ice from the > snow and water that had splashed into them. I flew home with the gear > extended with no further problems. Now i will have to get my plane into a > heated hanger to melt all of the ice before i go flying again. This > turned out to have a happy ending but it could have gone the other way > with a plane that needed a lot of repairs. I have been flying this plane > for 18 years and this is the first time that this has happened. It has > given me a new preflight and taxi item to check. Maybe this will help > someone else from having a similar problem. Kip ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 15:15:59 -0600 From: "JIM RALEIGH" Subject: Re: KR> performance numbers? To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <005301c5ff61$4061f7c0$92c91b45@HPAuthorizedCustomer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Larry I beleive you answered your own question when you said 70hp at 2300 rpm. I think that is close to correct. Question is what about cruise speed? I have a 0200 that I will be installing on my KR2S that I removed from my Citabria, I was using a 69X48 McCaully prop. I could get 2610 RPM static, 2700 90 mph climb, 2750 redline 120mph cruise. The way I understand it the higher the expected cruise speed the shorter the prop needs to be, but at the same time it needs more angle. I wonder if you could ask Ed Sturba about shortning your prop about 2" to get your RPM up since that last 2" is probably what the hardest for your engine to turn. If you would like to experament with my 69 by 48 your are welcome. It also has a bulk head and 9" spinner. Jim Raleigh ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry&Sallie Flesner" To: "KRnet" Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 5:30 AM Subject: KR> performance numbers? > > > > > The numbers are indicated. But i believe they are very > > close. > > > >Joe Horton > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > When I posted I forgot you have the 3100 ci engine. You may well be > pulling 80 to 100 hp on climb out while I'm lucky to be getting 70 hp > on climb out at 2300 to 2400 rpm. A friend of mine has a 62X49 > Sensenich prop that I'm tempted to try just to see what some extra hp > on takeoff and climb would do. I'm running a Sterba 60X64 so the > 62X49 ought to let me turn up considerable rpm but will really kill my > cruise numbers I suspect. I sure wish Santa could bring me a constant > speed prop for Christmas. :-) > > Larry Flesner > > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 15:25:04 -0600 From: "JIM RALEIGH" Subject: Re: KR> Prop position on C 90 To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <007a01c5ff62$85469340$92c91b45@HPAuthorizedCustomer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" About that vibration: Make shure that the pins that go thru your hub into the prop are installed and in one peice. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Scott" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 2:46 PM Subject: Re: KR> Prop position on C 90 > The prop Would typically be in the same plane as the rod journals on > the C series engines. When you have a cylinder at TDC, the prop should be horizontal. If you still have a vibration, swap it 180 degrees. If the problem still persists, you might want to take it back to the prop shop. > > Note that some metal props (Mostly MacCauley Met-L-Prop) have an RPM restriction on certain engines at certain RPMs, usually around 2150 - 2300, due to harmonics. You might want to research your prop/engine combination. The prop shop should also have information on engine/prop combination restrictions. > > Jeff Scott > > -- "L. D. Mueller" wrote: > Hey everyone: does anyone know at what position a metal prop should be > relative to cylinder number and stroke? I have an overhauled prop > reinstalled on a C 90 that has a little vibration @2200. The prop is > true and tracks right on. It didn't have this vibration before. So I > think I need > to reposition it. Anyone want to give it a whirl? ; - ) > > > > Thanks > > > > L. D. Mueller > > 521 North Madison St. > > Cuba City, WI 53807 > > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 18:55:05 -0600 From: Larry&Sallie Flesner Subject: KR> performance numbers? To: KRnet Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.0.20051212182239.03c34540@verizon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed > I have a 0200 that I will be installing on my KR2S that I removed >from my Citabria, I was using a 69X48 McCaully prop. I could get 2610 >RPM static, 2700 90 mph climb, 2750 redline 120mph cruise. The way I >understand it the higher the expected cruise speed the shorter the prop >needs to be, but at the same time it needs more angle Jim Raleigh ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Jim, I didn't realize they ever ran an 0-200 in a Citabria. Anyway, according to the chart in Tony Bingelis' book " Firewall Forward", 2750 rpm with a 48 inch pitch prop at 90% efficiency would put you right in the 120 mph range. My 64 inch pitch prop at 2700 rpm puts me in the 160 mph cruise range which is pretty close to where I'm at. More diameter is good as you will see in the notes below but with increased diameter comes increased tip speed and TOO MUCH of that is not good. An interesting note on one of his formulas, with my 64 inch pitch prop at 90% efficiency and 2800 rpm I should only be getting 153 mph. Three possibilities: A. my prop is more than 90% efficient. B. I'm turning 2800+rpm C. I actually have more than 64 inch pitch in the prop. I'm guessing it's voo doo science at work. :-) See notes below. Larry Flesner Some notes on propellers from the same book: The speed of sound at sea level is 741 mph (approx 1,100 fps) The tip speed of a propeller should not exceed the speed of sound. . Above a tip speed of approx 850fps (950fps for metal props) propellers suffer a loss of efficiency and produce a marked increase in noise level. A blade angle change of one degree will change the engine speed approx 50 to 100 rpm. Additionally, clipping one inch off the diameter (1/2 inch on each end) will cause an increase in engine speed of 50 to 100 rpm. About static rpm, (aircraft stationary on the ground with throttle wide open) a propeller should allow an engine to turn approx 80 percent of it's rated rpm. Your propeller's efficiency increases as the airspeed increases. It also increases with additional diameter - up to the critical tip speed range (speed of sound). Propeller efficiency is rarely above 90%. ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 19:00:32 -0600 From: Larry&Sallie Flesner Subject: Re: KR> performance numbers? To: KRnet Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.0.20051212185611.03c39228@verizon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed > If you would like >to experament with my 69 by 48 your are welcome. It also has a bulk >head and 9" spinner. Jim Raleigh +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Jim, Thanks for the offer. I'm inclined to pass for now. A friend of mine has a Sensenich (sp?) 62X49 that I may try soon just to see what happens. ( I'm running a Sterba 60X64 right now) It should take off and climb like a bandit but I'd have to watch my rpm in cruise. It would be interesting though. Larry flesner ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 20:34:51 -0500 From: "Brian Kraut" Subject: RE: KR> Training and the KR To: "KRnet" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I may be misinterpreting what you are saying, but I think you might be confusing the 40 hours required to get your license (is it still 40 hours these days?)with the 40 hours of solo flight on an experimental before it can carry passengers, including you and and an instructor. Meaning that weather you have your license or not you can not take an instuctor in the plane until the plane has 40 hours on it. Sorry if I have screwed up what you had intended to say. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Ron Smith Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 10:30 PM To: brokerpilot96ta@earthlink.net; KRnet Subject: Re: KR> Training and the KR Colin, I know that I cannot train in the plane before the 40 hours. What I meant was and I think I said it, was that I would get my private BEFORE I finish my plane, and train in my plane, as a p.p. I'm sure I will get some time in a Hi preformance plane. Like I said, I've never been worried about my piloting skills. My instructor, very rarely ever took the controls, and when they did it was to show me something. I landed the plane every time myself and never had a real bad one, or even bounced, in as many landings I did in 25 hours. One time I did screw up and completly forgot to put in the flaps at all. Landed a little fast but, that was just a simulation of a flap failure. :) --------------------------------- Yahoo! Shopping Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 20:45:18 -0500 From: "Brian Kraut" Subject: KR> prop needed To: "KRnet" , Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I need to have my Sterba 62 X 68 prop on my M1 pitched a little lower. I know that Ed can get pretty busy and I expect it to be two weeks before I get it back. Since I fly 5 to 10 hours a week and have trips for work that pop up at a drop of a hat it is a pretty big deal for me to have my plane down that long. I am looking for some options if anyone has any. The prop is for an O-200. I would be willing to beg, borrow, or rent a prop from someone else and would have no problem paying a deposit to cover the cost until it is returned and paying shipping and a reasonable usage fee. I would also consider buying a used prop if anyone has one. One other thought was to just buy a new prop and fly with the one I have until the new one comes. Mine needs to be refinished so if anyone is looking to buy a new prop and wants to save a hundred bucks I wouldn't mind buying a new one for myself, paying for my old one to be repitched, refinished, and checked out by Ed, and selling it for $100 less than the price of a new one. Obviously I would not let it go until my new one arrived so it might be 4 or 5 weeks to get the new one done and then have the old one redone. Please reply to me directly at brian@engalt.com or call me at 904-536-1780 instead of emailing the whole list. Thanks. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 20:48:26 -0500 From: "Brian Kraut" Subject: RE: KR> Re:Wet Runways in the winter To: "KRnet" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Good to see you are back in one piece Kip. Now admit what really happened, your wheels got hung up in the wheel wells from the snow chains you put on them. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On Behalf Of lounsbur@midmaine.com Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 11:33 PM To: KRnet Subject: KR> Re:Wet Runways in the winter > Just a note to tell you about a flight that i made today in my KR > that can remind all of us about what can happen if you don,t take > ALL of the weather factors into concideration when you go flying. As > a side note i probably have one of the last krs that still have the > retracts. For those of you that made the gathering this year my KR was > the one with the full clamshell gear doors. This is all relevent to > the story. Flying a KR in the north in the winter means that you > usually don,t have that many days that you can fly without freezing to > death so you take everyday that you can get and today was such a day. > The temp was in the mid 20,s with bright sun and not too much of a > cross wind at the field where i base my plane. We had just had a large > snow storm 2 days before but thr runway ws plowed with mostly bare > pavement showing. As i taxied my plane to the active i passed over a > lot of snow patches and damp spots on the black pavement. Takeoff was > normal and. i headed for a local airport about 20 miles away. Ther was > a lot of traffic at the field so i extended my upwind leg a ways to > allow for spacing. After entering downwind i reached to lower the > landing gear only to find that it was frozen solid in the up position. > Pucker factor riseing rapidly at this point. After several min,s of > trying i was begining to think that the only option was that i was > giong to have to land on the ski runway on the belly. I tried one last > dive with a sharp pullout while pulling to lower the gear at the same > time when it finally broke loose. I proceeded to land and when i got > out to look the wheel wells were full of ice from the snow and water > that had splashed into them. I flew home with the gear extended with > no further problems. Now i will have to get my plane into a heated > hanger to melt all of the ice before i go flying again. This turned > out to have a happy ending but it could have gone the other way with a > plane that needed a lot of repairs. I have been flying this plane for > 18 years and this is the first time that this has happened. It has given me a new preflight and taxi item to check. Maybe this will help > someone else from having a similar problem. Kip _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 21:18:21 -0600 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> performance numbers? To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <001d01c5ff93$df1f8f30$0202a8c0@2600xp> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Larry Flesner wrote: > A friend of mine > has a Sensenich (sp?) 62X49 that I may try soon just to see what > happens. ( I'm running a Sterba 60X64 right now) It should take off > and climb like a bandit but I'd have to watch my rpm in cruise. It > would be interesting though. There's a huge gap between Sterba's numbering system and Sensenich's. I'll bet there's not nearly as much difference in those two as you might expect. Try it, you might like it. It might do everything better... Mark Langford, Harvest, AL see homebuilt airplane at http://www.N56ML.com email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 509 *************************************** ================================== ABC Amber Outlook Converter v4.20 Trial version ==================================